Curmudgeon, your fixation on presentation and style puzzles me. Ms Fahy is talking about how money is spent on our behalf, for good or evil, by individuals in private and public institutions. The issue that seems to appear most important to you is a matter of style and presentation, of the structure and aesthetics of her essay.
Do you have no money in savings accounts or, pension funds, no stock holdings or mortgage obligations and therefore no need for concern about where your tax dollars are spent or invested?.

I am more interested in ethics than aesthetics. Cluster munitions are indiscriminate in their effect on civilians, for generations after they are used.
The 2006 war in Lebanon is an example. see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_bomb
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
The latter notes that

"Both sides used cluster bombs during the conflict. … Israel used advanced cluster munitions produced by Israel Military Industries, and large numbers of older cluster bombs, some produced in the 1970s, purchased from aging American stockpiles."
According to recent reports, about half the affected areas in Lebanon have been cleared. The meaning of this, in human terms, from a Lebanese farmer’s point of view, is reported at
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5847741,00.html

Curmudgeon, The Convention on Cluster Munitions, signed but not yet ratified by Australia, offers a hope of outlawing investment in the manufacture of these evil creations. I will be happy to see this opportunity realized, although I expect others, and perhaps you, believe there should be no such government interference in individual or corporate investment choices.

A very comprehensive report by Human Rights Watch, "Fulfilling the Ban", available at
http://www.hrw.org/node/90721
states that
“ …legislation should … prohibit a state party from directly running its own production facilities or from indirectly supporting production by investing in it through national pension funds. If a state party so chooses, it could elaborate on what activities are direct and indirect in national policies rather than in the legislation itself.

Curmudgeon, where do you stand on this issue?

Sir Vivor - no, in fact the points I made are vital. They go to the heart of making a difference. If Michelle expects to reach to anyone beyond a limited audience she should ensure her article meets minimum standards. That is, it should be understandable without extensive study. Failure on small points do not matter, but the large failures should be pointed out now.
Don't quote Wikipedia. If you must cite anything, cite the sources it uses. In any case your citations miss the point entirely. I'm sure that cluster bombs, like all other bombs, are a problem. The real question is are we going to concern outselves with the financiers of those who make parts for those who make cluster bombs, as opposed to financing any other part of the armaments industry

Curmudgeon, I wonder if you read beyond my Wikipedia quotes, as they were just two of the references I cited.

As for whether I should have cited Wikipedia, you are welcome to your opinion, but you might graciously remember that not all your readers are as well-informed on this particular topic as you may be. While Wikipedia rarely provides the final word on any individual subject, it generally provides an acceptable range of fact, opinion and references on any given topic, for anyone who wishes to learn more.

After all, we have 350 words at a time to focus and support our comment, and most readers are happy to read even fewer, if they make a succinct point about the topic at hand (as opposed to a critique on how the point is expressed).


So as to keep this post short and simple, I repeat the last paragraphs of my previous post, for your consideration.

A very comprehensive report by Human Rights Watch, "Fulfilling the Ban", available at

http://www.hrw.org/node/90721
states that

“ …legislation should … prohibit a state party from directly running its own production facilities or from indirectly supporting production by investing in it through national pension funds. If a state party so chooses, it could elaborate on what activities are direct and indirect in national policies rather than in the legislation itself.

Curmudgeon, where do you stand on this issue?
Are you in favour of banning investment in cluster munitions, or are you against such a ban?

A simple "in favour of" or "against" will do, but of course you are free to prevaricate if you wish.

Dear, Dear Michelle Fahy,

I wish you would understand that if we, you and I, earned salaries sufficient for our needs only, there would be no savings, banks would not exist and explosives of any kind could not be produced.

Also, on a lean diet, no grease would lodge in our brains to prevent us from thinking clearly.

What we see around us is obesity, eating and drinking over our natural dietary requirements, and getting all on the table without any physical exertion and, having eaten, still have wealth to spare.

But we need bombs, bombs to blow out of our heads the accumulated grease that prevent us from being concerned about no one but our blind selves

Well then, Curmudgeon, I see you have made the honourable choice and declined to prevaricate further. But what do you make of Skeptic's odd letter?

I can't imagine that Skeptic would be happy to learn that his bank was going to fund the manufacture of explosives to be used on the house next door to him (ignoring any border disputes he may engaged in, regarding overhanging vegetation or bikie parties into the early morning, and also discounting the possibility of collateral damage).

And yet Skeptic offers no intelligent reply to the question: Should Australian savings be funnelled into cluster bomb manufacture?

Do you suppose he is engaging in esoteric satire for its own sake, or is this a symptom of denial, regarding a real ethical issue?

Perhaps he has savings and shares in ANZ, and this is how he copes.

Interesting to note that the French have outlawed investment in cluster munitions.

More information is available at www.amnesty.fr and www.handicap-international.fr

If you read French, then the minutes of the relevant session of the French National Assembly are available at www.assemblee-nationale.fr If you search the term BASM, it will deliver good results from their equivalent of Hansard. If your French is better than mine, you may well enjoy following the debate.

The following site provides interesting information. The stories are linked to the search returns.

http://www.banktrack.org/show/pages/search

search: cluster munitions

news 12 items

Top financial institutions invest over US$43 billion in producers of cluster bombs
Geneva, Switzerland, 14 Apr 2010 | Netwerk Vlaanderen/ IKV PaxChristi

ANZ Pressured to End Loans to Munitions Maker
Cambodia, 02 Dec 2009 | Zsombor Peter, the Cambodia Daily

Top financial institutions still invest US$20 billion in cluster bombs
London, 29 Oct 2009 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

BankTrack members unveil bank secrets
Brussels, 25 Jun 2009 | CRBM

Banks shun harmful investments
Brussels, 11 Jun 2008 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

Too Risky for Business
Brussels, 06 Nov 2007 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

AXA disinvests from landmines and cluster munitions
Brussels, 18 Jul 2007 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

Sixty-eight banks fuelling cluster munition producers with billions of dollars
Brussels, 01 Mar 2007 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

Banks continue to invest in cluster munitions
Brussels, Belgium, 18 Sep 2006 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

KBC throws eleven cluster bomb producers out of its portfolio
Brussels, Belgium, 02 May 2006 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

ING and AXA invest in the modernisation of white phosphorus weapons
Brussels, Belgium, 13 Mar 2006 | Netwerk Vlaanderen

Demining team begin their work at AXA
Brussels, 18 Oct 2005 | Netwerk Vlaanderen


Copyright ©2008 BankTrack, created by EasyMIND