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The Forum > Article Comments > Marxism Destroyed the Dialectic > Comments

Marxism Destroyed the Dialectic : Comments

By Gilbert Holmes, published 27/9/2010

Marx poisoned modern political philosophy because he didn't understand the dialectic

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I was one of those people who was interested in forming a commune. It was named Philia, and it was to be located on Durville Island between North and South Island. There was a schism between those who were disciples of B. F. Skinner and wanted to make collective decisions and have all the people bound by them to vote and do other activities as a group and those who wanted to devote enough time to the community to keep the community and otherwise live their own life. I was in the latter, and it turned out to be a minority. I have nothing against non-Marxist communism, collectivism or communities.

I am against Marxism because I see the class struggle as another divisive we/they gestalt like Nazism, racism and nationalism. The mass murders were no accident. I oppose any ideology or philosophy which does not recognise the humanity of those who are not in your group. The Manifesto does not.

My interests in building community did not involve seeing the world outside the community as the other. The Skinnerians did.
Posted by david f, Thursday, 28 October 2010 9:31:19 PM
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>I am against Marxism because I see the class struggle
as another divisive we/they gestalt like Nazism, racism
and nationalism. The mass murders were no accident.

Classes are an objective fact of human society since the beginning of the neolithic. Therefore class struggle over the scarcity of resources is an objective fact as well. Your comparison of this to various delusional ideologies of ruling class control is ludicrous in the extreme. As if you even understand what I just wrote. Or really care.

>I oppose any ideology or philosophy which does not
recognise the humanity of those who are not in your
group. The Manifesto does not.

Sez you. Marxism is more based on the innate humanity of all social individuals than the murderous lie that is capitalism and its hyper-trophied 'individualist' and innate piratism and parasitism.

> My interests in building community did not involve
seeing the world outside the community as the other.
The Skinnerians did.

People who are constantly trying to bring "Walden II", et al., into being are people who clearly have neither read nor understood Marx -- who is famous first of all for analyzing exactly WHY such utopian stabs at Idealist communism WILL fail eventually -- and rather sooner than later. This clear understanding of the failings of such Idealized, subjective efforts is EXACTLY why Karl Marx and Fred Engels came up with their scientific analysis of how to go about actually building a socialist society *on an objective basis*, which we call "scientific socialism", or 'marxism'.

It's pathetic that you people continue on and on in this vein, no matter just how wrong and clueless you are. Good thing the Murdoch mass-propaganda media is backing you up in its totalitarian way 24/7, eh?
Posted by grok, Friday, 29 October 2010 3:37:23 AM
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>I would rather not see you in the streets.
>I will be 85 on Sunday and would probably get beat up.

The streets are not optional. You WILL be there, whether you want to be or not. Not my doing, either, fella: It's the actions of the capitalists which will force people into the streets.

>However, even if I were young violence is not my way.
I would rather talk, write, argue or ignore.

Violence is a fact of class struggle: you can run and hide from it -- for a while -- but it isn't to be avoided, seeing as how violence is the ultimate means by which a tiny elite controls the vast majority in all class society.

>If the facts are not with me I will admit I am wrong.

Based on our experiences here, I would consider this statement to be a simple and obvious 'untruth'.

>We live in a democratic society where there are avenues
other than violence.

Another alien visitor from another planet... This is NOT the way the world actually runs. However, it IS a common, pathetic and hypocritical petit-bourgeois delusion, fed by endless ruling class propaganda and social control. Reality always eventually intrudes into such pipe-dreams, thankfully.

>The threat of violence or actual violence is
the totalitarian Marxist, Nazi or fascist reaction
to criticism.

Violence is indeed all to often the response to non-violent challenges to authority: temporal, ideological or moral. However we live in a world of *CAPITALIST* violence, you deceiver. As long as you ignore this, I will face you with it.

>Your ideological buddies have murdered millions,
and you seem to want to add to the score.

Your masters have murdered most of these people in the past few hundred years, David F. And they are planning to murder a few billion more, REAL soon. People like me are heroes, in fact, for standing up to them. And not by fool petit-bourgeois 'moral suasion', either.

>I won’t be there.

I've already stated that you WILL be -- whether you want to be or not.
Posted by grok, Friday, 29 October 2010 4:03:11 AM
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grok:

The mass murders are a fact. They were no accident. The Marxist dystopias were one party states with censorship, secret police, persecution of ethnic groups, persecution of dissenters, concentration camps and mass murder. That is not propaganda or slander. Those are facts.

I can understand not liking those facts. I cannot understand defending them.
Posted by david f, Friday, 29 October 2010 4:05:14 AM
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*People like me are heroes*

That's the worry Groky, people like you who believe their
own delusions.

Meantime I remind you that its lonely out in the streets for
you and a couple of mates. You have zilch political support
in Australia, apart from a Combi full of unwashed demonstrators
who simply enjoy demonstrating, as they blame the world
for their problems.

But then yes, self delusion is a human foible for some
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 29 October 2010 9:18:01 AM
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I guess you people have simply not had enough of capitalist fascism yet... May you live just long enough to realize how so very, very wrong you are here; I mean, realize it in a way you *cannot* ignore -- as you so hypocritically have here, the past few weeks.

I don't think any of you Reichwingers realizes how poor and pathetic your attacks on marxism have been. You actually think you have made a point -- when just the opposite is the case. We call this 'delusional', you know.

But the point is -- you don't.
Posted by grok, Sunday, 31 October 2010 2:43:26 PM
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