Yabby:
>I guess the conclusion to all of this is that
interesting as it was at its time, today Marxism
is largely out of date, for of course Marx could
not predict the future, just like the rest of us.

Besides the fact that you have learnt nothing from this 'debate', let me assure you that marxism has never been MORE relevant than today. I point to my own personal experience for the veracity of this statement (which of course is not good enough for you). Marx was also smart enough NOT to "predict the future" in the sense you mean it -- and of course he is taken to task for NOT giving us a detailed road map to that future.

Just can't win, eh?

>Marx could not have dreamed, that our capitalism/
social welfare mix, would land up seeing workers
largely own the means of production.

What planet RU from, again?

>Marx could not have forseen, that "work" in the
modern world would not be the sweat and toil of
his day, but see workers spend increasing work
time, fooling around on the internet or facebook
and still be paid for "work". Marx might be amazed,
that many workers do in fact enjoy their work with
a passion

Utter bull-dada.

>Marx could not have forseen, that modern banking,
venture capital and similar, would do far more to
give people the choice to function at their potential,
then any of his theories

I want some of that crack you're smoking.

>Marx could not have forseen, that other species
are not that different from ours, as he seemed
to think. Perhaps he was still influenced by the
old Descartes scientists, who used to nail dogs
feet to the floor and claim they were mere machines,
when they howled in pain.

Now you're caught out just plain lying.

*I want some of that crack you're smoking.*

Ah that explains alot, Groky :) My advice to you is to
give up the crack and stick to a good Cabernet Merlot, Australia
grows some great wines.

* I point to my own personal experience for the veracity of this statement*

Ok, so you had a bad experience. I assure you, the rest of the
world is moving on.

I have no doubt that Marx's intentions were good, but then the
road is paved with good intentions. Along comes the law of
unintended consequences, a few variables change and you can throw
the lot out of the window. So it is with Marx.

You seemingly don't know what venture capital is achieving?
You seemingly don't know how many small business people borrow
money to start their own businesses? You've never spoken to a
plumber, electrician or the other 2 million small business owners?

You seemingly don't know Australians who do in fact enjoy their
jobs. You don't know Australians who spend time at work, fooling
around on the internet.

I am sorry to say Groky, but you really arn't in touch with the
world around you, it seems.

As to Descartes, indeed he thought that animals were mere
automata, who felt no pain. I was quite shocked to read what
they did to animals, that is why I remember it so well.
Just google Descartes and animal cruelty and you will find
a reference.

Hey -- even his royal hippy-dippy highness Prince Charles is all for "balance" in society with Nature, etc., yadda: http://networkedblogs.com/9nE3C

Case closed, Gilbert: you got us there.

Now if we can just get rid of the landowners... where's my pitchfork??

Gee, people are still commenting on this rather poor article. That's because Marx's analysis of capitalism is still relevant. The Global Financial crisis, the possible double dip and now the magnificent class struggle going on in France, with its potential to not only defeat neoliberlaism but to challenge the dictatorship of capital, sees some commentators forced to give a grudging tilt of the hat to Marx.

France shows the future - either neoliberalism continuing to squeeze more out of workers or a complete break with capitalism.

Indeed Passy,
there's a neat little book out this year called "First as Tragedy, Then as Farce" that takes its title first from 9/11 and the GFC, both of which confronted western capitalist complacency. History did not end in 1989 as the dolts of the free market imagine. Indeed what free market? I still can't believe what happened in the wake of the GFC, wave after wave of so-called stimuulous spending--money for nothing! Being a father of six, I raked in about 10K over six months for SFA! That's what they call "fine tuning".
It's still going on in the US; they're still printing monopoly money by the container load!
Of course Australia is something of a Brigadoon, preserved in ideological stasis thanks to the mining boom--and sheer thick-headedness!
You've gotta laugh..

*and now the magnificent class struggle going on in France, with its potential to not only defeat neoliberlaism but to challenge the dictatorship of capital, sees some commentators forced to give a grudging tilt of the hat to Marx.*

Hehe Passy, those poor workers, having to work until 62 instead
of 60.. Time for revolution indeed!

I lived in France for a couple of years and its true, a % of
the population certainly carry the "hothead" gene, which they
display with regularity, about just about anything, just to
show that they can.

Mind you, I don't know of any who rushed to live in Cuba or North
Korea, to test out Marxism in the real world.

What it does show is that no matter how good people have it,
they seemingly want more. A human foible it seems.