They're only ad hominem when they're irrelevant to the argument at hand; so as I've said previously: making such a claim only points up the low level of your argumentation -- and not really to any failing on my part.

As for the fact that you are actually a 'red diaper baby' -- and yet you can spout what you have here: it can only mean that, whatever you've read or experienced and whenever you did, you certainly DIDN'T *understand* the most part (or any, frankly) of it. And since neither of us has lived under "really-existing socialism", we can't beat each other over the head with _that_ particular historical, concrete 'experience', like the occasional east european here can try to do.

You've turned into a waste of time, Loudmouth, like Holmes and Yabby. Only Squeers and maybe one other are worth any more effort here.

*And since neither of us has lived under "really-existing socialism",*

Perhaps it's time to redefine all this. Despite the multitude of
attempts, socialism has been unable to create the claimed nirvana,
for the result was usually, more like a gulag.

The closest thing to socialism is really happening right here,
financed by the wealth generation of capitalism.

Over 100 billion $ a year alone in Australia, spent on social
welfare. Healthcare, education, all provided by the State.
Increasingly workers own the means of production, 1.3 trillion $
at last count.

Workers, with some of the world's cushiest working conditions.
Workers, earning some of the world's highest wages, living in
the world's largest houses. Aussies in general, have life
on a plate, if we are just a little bit honest.

But the veins of envy run deep in some posters. If some are
doing a bit better then them, perhaps because of more effort,
life must be unfair. No matter how good some of these posters
have it, they still want more. Such is human nature it seems.

Yabby:
<Workers, with some of the world's cushiest working conditions.
Workers, earning some of the world's highest wages, living in
the world's largest houses. , if we are just a little bit honest.>

Dear Yabby,
can't you see that your every opinion takes for granted the fundamental context, the default ideology, of capitalism? You can't imagine any other world.
"Aussies in general, have life on a plate", you say..
You're incapable of conceiving of "life" as being anything other than a mean and selfish competition. A state-sanctioned, state-facilitated provision, whether one works for it or bludges on it; that's all there is, right?
You can't even conceive that anyone could be driven by anything but self-interest, and thus envy ... it follows: <the veins of envy run deep in some posters>
Yabby et al, I don't envy or covet; I really don't. Incredible as that may seem to you, it's true.
I apologise, Joe, GH and others, for the tone of some of my posts; I know I must seem arrogant (I'm sure you can think of better adjectives), but I assure you that it's sheer frustration! It seems impossible to get beyond your programming!

Joe,
Marxist thought has been in a state of contemplative quiescence for decades (pondering your options), but has now woken up again to the fact that all its efforts were in vain, and that Marx was right; emancipation cannot be derived from the superstructure, only from the base. There has to be economic and ergo material reform. But our masters will never comply.
Grok is more optimistic than me. I think it's the cliff.

*You can't imagine any other world*

I certainly can, Squeers. The very thought of somebody like
yourself or Grok in charge, telling us others what to do, as you
seemingly know what is best for us, fills me with horror.

I'll stick to a free market system thanks, where people make
up their own minds, as to what is good for them. As long as
they have some fairness of opportunity, is my main concern.
Australia provides that.

*You can't even conceive that anyone could be driven by anything but self-interest*

I simply have a different understanding and perception of what
drives human behaviour, then you do.

If you Squeers, help that little old lady across the street, did
you do it because you are so selfless, or did you do it because
afterwards you can pat yourself on the back, tell yourself what
a kind fellow you are and your brain chemstry rewards you with
feel good endorphins?

I can tell you, you would not do it, if it made you feel bad.

As its in your interest to feel good, you are in facting out
of self interest, aware of it or not.

Yabby, you said - "I'll stick to a free market system where people make up their own minds, as to what is good for them."

What's free about being kept in ignorance, distorted consciousness, and in debt - that's how most westerners live these days - constantly scuttling about in order to pay (with interest) for all the things they've "acquired" - that's a form of servitude, and it's achieved by the market providing an "overabundance of stuff".

"I simply have a different understanding and perception of what drives human nature, then you do."

You seem to be proving Marx right in his belief that man's actions are derived from the social organisation in which he is embedded - "It is not consciousness of men that determines their being, but on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness." - which would explain why you believe self-interest is the driving force behind human nature.

Just a couple of points in passing:

Grok,
<<<“If I understand correctly, Marx was driven to the profession of journalism because he was essentially denied employment as a professor at the various universities he was associated with as a student: the administrations of which essentially didn't like his politics... In other words he was blacklisted.
What's changed, eh?”>>>

A hell of a lot!

Marx is indeed a man born before his time , nowadays, his political leanings would have put him in the box seat for most university professorships (at the very least, he could well have found a top job with the ABC!)

Poirot, Squeers et al.
I think you're making things too complicated. It's really quite simple –you don’t have to had read and memorized all the buzz phrases from Wissenschaft der Logik, or Das Kapital.

Here’s a much more succinct critique of human nature/society/collectivism.

PS To put it in context, I have renamed the characters the little "bourgeois" hen and the “class conscious” but “exploited” cat, dog and rat .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr-yQGD9eAA