The wearing of the burqa is not - as never has been - a religious Muslim doctrine.

It's a cultural one. Not all Islamic countries wear them and not all Islamic countries oppress women. Some fundamentalist Middle Eastern states do (that's what fundamentalism does) but the majority do not.

The former President of Indonesia - a non-burqa wearing woman - is an example of both exceptions. Another potential female presidential candidate was even assassinated a few years ago in Pakistan.

It seems to me that too much is being made by both sides of what is essentially an imported fashion statement.

wobbles, "Not all Islamic countries wear them and not all Islamic countries oppress women."

Yes, but are women being oppressed in the countries where the burqa is worn? Because if that is so, women especially have reason enough to object to the fashion for what it represents, just as there is objection to the wearing of a white gown and hood for what that might represent, or brown clothing with Nazi-like symbols.

It follows that while there might not be a ban on the burqa and niqab, there ought not be any steps taken to encourage such fashion either, such as making special arrangements to get around perfectly normal and usual security identification requirements.

Then there are the body image downsides of a fashion that requires concealment of a female body only and for the most spurious of reasons. Fact is, the fashion is unhealthy enough from both psychological and physiological aspects to discourage its use. Would anyone here be concerned if the fashion is passed on to daughters? I hope some are and that raises still more issues.

It is not as simple as to ban or not, the fight is for the ground in between those extremes.

What a very odd assumption, Boaz.

>>And dear Pericles, totally oblivious of the standing command/call in Islam(Quran 9:29) to bring into subjection all non Muslims of the world and tax them with the humiliating disgraceful "Jizya" tax whether they like it or not...... probably thinks they SHOULD receive a share.<<

What on earth gave you the idea that I would support the allocation of one tiny red cent of taxpayers' money to a religion?

You really haven't been paying attention, have you.

The Italian government is performing their version of "Jizya", in fact, by taxing atheists, and redistributing their money to Catholics. Tell me, if you can, the philosophical distinction between the two imposts.

>>If you don't know how religious values and ideas impact the heart..why bother trying to unravel it? There are little neurons in your head which simply don't connect in the way they do for a faith oriented person.. seriously...that's not abuse..it's a physiological fact.<<

For which I am, it has to be said, profoundly grateful.

You are right of course about the neuron connections.

Fortunately, there are many examples of people who have been able to de-program themselves from the religious instructions from their hot-wired neurons, and proceed to live perfectly normal lives.

>>Just a final thought...the Burqa is not about 'clothing' it's about religion... let's start connecting some of those neuron paths.<<

The more illumination that is shed on the burqa, the more it appears that we are dealing with an intensely political issue.

As the Muslim nation of Syria's ban clearly indicates.

Fortunately today is a day of rest Pericles.. I just smiled at your last post..

Personally, I tend to agree on the issue of governments giving money to religions. The fundamental principles of sound Church growth are

-Self supporting
-Self Governing
-Self propogating.

The last thing we need is Government strings attached to money.

So..does that sound like an agreeable note ? :) It's the closest you will get today...

OH.. Update.. Beck Restoring Honour rally attracts massive crowd.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100828/ap_on_en_tv/us_dc_rally

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/28/us-right-king-lincoln-memorial

Boazy, on the basis of those reports Beck's 8/28 shindig wasn't exactly a world-changing event. Sure, a sizeable bunch of older 'white' folks strutted their odious stuff, but nobody seems to have taken them particularly seriously.

I think I'll file that along with your predictions about Fundies First's electoral success last week :)

If we ban the burka because women are pressured to wear it, we need to make a whole raft of other changes. School students are forced to wear uniforms. So are many employees. Advertising pressures us to wear certain clothes. Fashion magazines routinely advise women on what to wear. Indecent exposure laws define which body parts need to be covered. I cannot enter a bank with a stocking over my head (or so I would assume).

Imagine a world where women couldn't ask everyone in the house for an opinion on which clothes to wear to a party because it might be seen as telling her what to wear. My wife simply couldn't cope.

No choice is truly free.