The ALP is the Friend of the Capitalists and the LNP is the Party of the Capitalists - how can anyone tell the difference?

In 2007 right-wing ALP candidates made much of the Seven Vultures that were feeding on the carcass of the Howard government as it flailed around shifting further and further to the right in its drive to populism with business and religious groups and with those who listen only to small sound bites from the mainstream media.

Those Seven Vultures of 2007 were: the denial of climate change; touting of the war in Iraq; WorkChoices; policy failure on education spending; poor vision of infrastructure; destruction of research and development; and refugees with the Pacific Solution.

Three years later and we still have Seven Vultures, but they are now feeding on the corpses of the Rudd government and the Gillard government as it lurches further and further to the far right with the same populism groups and intentions.

The only difference this time is the make up of the Seven Vultures has changed to: the homes insulation scheme; the permanently postponed energy scheme; the war in Afghanistan; the continuation of the ABCC and WorkChoices Lite; the mining industry deciding who will be Prime Minister in order to expand uranium mining; the school hall/library construction scheme; and refugees with the East Timor Solution.

I am sure this is not what government is supposed to be about: government by big business, hidden bureaucrats, vested interests and exploitative capitalism.

Once you take choice out of the equation you are left with a monopoly. Nothing but a change of the same old guard wearing the same old emporer's clothes.

"The long term left wing shift to the Greens is not an aberration but a consequence of the ALP’s abandonment of the pretence of leftism."

Yes, the green movement was infiltrated by the left and assorted Trotskyites decades ago, hence its "bizarro world" perversity and absence of originality, progress, understanding or tolerance of a dissenting view.

regarding the "abandonment of the pretense of leftism"

eventually everyone, with a functioning mind tires of the same old repetition of the working class mantra....

"Up the workers...."

Right "up", to the hilt!

It's ironic that Labor is dying at the same time that capitalism is dying. The old system of bosses and workers is redundant as is the current system of elitist billionaires and the struggling poor.

We are moving towards a crisis point where there will be revolution and chaos. Once the dominoes start falling, then will be the time to seize the moment, continue on with the work that the French Revolution began. They succeeded in getting rid of Decadent Royalty but the Wealthy Parasites simply took their place.

We must remake our world so that it accords justice, freedom and equality to all.

www.dangerouscreation.com

David G “Once the dominoes start falling, then will be the time to seize the moment, continue on with the work that the French Revolution began.”

Ah the French Revolution....

Be careful of what you wish, David G,

The French which promised “liberty”, “ fraternity” and “equality”

But actually delivered

Tyranny

The Terror

The Great Terror

Mass executions

And eventually a dictator who ravaged Europe for a couple of Decades, before being caught and imprisoned for the rest of his life (still don’t understand why they did not just kill Napoleon Bonaparte in the first place)

So too the Russian Revolution with Lenin & Trotsky urging the proletariat to rise up against their masters, only to cheat them by starving them to death or imprisoning them in Siberia....

Capitalism is not perfect but it is better than the fanciful and demented rubbish you seen to be extolling

Regarding “We must remake our world so that it accords justice, freedom and equality to all.”

Better to vote Liberal at the next election – it will get you closer to that objective than a vote for the “liars of collectivism” (aka “Lenin’s useful idiots”)

One day the loopy Left will be amazed to find that not everyone is a "Worker'.

Howard was heavily supported by small ( micro ) business people.. the very people that Socialists will never be able to connect to, at any cost.

I agree , the old Capitalist System as well as the Socialist Left is dead.. but it will not be replaced by an ancient,academic, discreted Trotskyite Version

John, you are right, of course. The Greens will benefit strongly from the shift of all things Labor to the right. Even Gillard, a total misfit as a Prime MInister and with worse yet to come, sold out the rest of her life-long leftwing integrity which she proudly trumpeted for years until it was necessary to have the support of her opposites, the bully boy righties of Shorten and Arbib who, as we can all forecast, will benefit noticeably in the distribution of Ministerial appointments. The lady and her 'boyfriend' can occupy the Lodge, a place where, most of the time in the past one could say that there was a worthy person living there who we could respect.

Those days are now gone. In the case of Gillard, when you analyse closely, perhaps the single worst choice for the role and in the case of Abbott, unlikely to amount to anything at all. Compromises, both.

These days the people who are crawling out of the union battlefields all appear to be rightwing extremists like Arbib, a most inarticulate fellow and an unfortuneate product of his environment. In the case of Shorten, he has shown himself to be manipulative and cunning but now well connected in the closest we can get to royalty in this country.

Watch them in the Ministerial stakes. This is where all the debts get squared. Gillard owes, she will pay. She also owes to the Melbourne Jews so watch the foreign policy backdowns so there will be no equivocal attitudes to anything but Israel's dictates. Her goose has been well cooked and those realists in the Labor party, leftwing or other can say farewell to any support for a compassionate, humane resolution in the middle east. No tears ever from this compromised 'lady'. Her agenda is clear.

Again, as each day passes, more value for the Greens.

Rudd may have had his faults. But he is looking so good at the moment.

Hey Stern,

An ancestor of mine was the principal physician of St Helena during Napoleon's last days. He performed his autopsy. (Perhaps he helped to finish him off).
I'm sure I've gone up in your estimation now...No, perhaps not.

John: No doubt you would like the ALP to be in its death throes, fortunately that is not the case.
I would venture to say that the Australian public as a whole, politically, is inexorably moving to the right. The ALP as a pragmatic political animal has detected this movement and also moved its policy base towards the right of the political spectrum. However it is still a movement that broadly represents the average working family. The working/middle class voter is today, possibly better educated, more affluent, is more likely to own their own house, modern motor vehicles, modern labour saving devices and in the case of the modern tradesperson is now usually self employed.
All these material advantages add up to a gradual move, perhaps unconsciencely, to the right politically.
In my opinion this movement is recognised by the ALP and their policy platform is tailored to embrace this movement. This is to their credit, they realise that left wing idealism/extremism does not win federal elections and opposition parties do not formulate government decisions on health, education, workplace legislation, social services, foreign policy,etc.
The ALP platform on these very important aspects of Australian everyday living is vastly superior to any other Australian political party including the Greens.

David G, your prophesy of revolution and chaos is intriguing.
But I find it so hard to imagine Australians stirring ourselves enough to engage in revolution.
What will need to happen before we get that outraged?

Oh, wait, I know. Lots of boat people, and same sex marriage.

Stern says be careful what you wish for,since tyranny may replace the worker's fight for justice.Stern the tyranny is coming from a corporate elite who control the banks and our Govts.

If the USA/Israel invade Iran,all hell will break loose and then you'll know the meaning of tyranny.

I think everyone holding out for a trotskyist pinko take-over or some flower-power era through the Greens are going to be in for a disappointment when two minutes of actually finding out for yourself where the Greens stand would reveal them to be very much a moderate center-left party that seems more intent on mirroring successful policies in Europe and Canada than ushering some radical new trendy dynasty. and that is exactly what I'm after.

Also JAck I am sorry you are totally correct about Labor's policies being "better" than "any other party" which I'm sure you've checked to be certain. Things like allowing public infrastructure to collapse, get sold to a dodgy company who do nothing but raise prices, health remaining grossly understaffed and maintained at a primarily user-pays system (the government merely chips in if you apply), education including chaplains in schools, workplace legislation emulating Howard, selling land (usually important public land) to real-estate developers without regard of how to maintain it, foreign policy including participation in unnecessary foreign conflicts STILL hoping that our increasingly unpopular ally will reward us somehow instead of a neutral policy like in Sweden and Switzerland.

But please, do describe another party's policy (Actually quote it from the site) to compare it to.

Arjay “If the USA/Israel invade Iran,all hell will break loose and then you'll know the meaning of tyranny.”

I grew up in a divided Europe.

I remember TV newscasts of people trying to escape over the Berlin Wall

That, Arjay was a visual demonstration of “Tyranny”

The Tyranny of collectivism, shooting its citizens for daring to try for something better than the “workers Utopia” of East Germany, Russia, Poland, Hunagry, Czechoslovakia etc etc....

That tyranny whose onetime leaser, Lenin said of the French Revolution

“We need the real, nation-wide terror which reinvigorates the country and through which the Great French Revolution achieved glory”

and I also recall... i was standing on the good side of that wall
America had run a round-the-clock airlift of essential supplies to stop the spread of the “collectivist disease”.
America was the bastion between a free Western Europe or a Western Europe enslaved under the yoke of the glorifiers of the French Revolution.

A time when a poker bluff meant... who will press the nuclear button first?

So Arjay, all I will say is “If the USA/Israel invade Iran, all hell will break loose and then you'll know the meaning of tyranny.”

Only if the Iranians were to win would there be tyranny

Because you have no vision, no real cause or pressing agenda, no goal or possibly soul,
it does not mean that alot of Americans and Israelis and even some Australians are likewise deficient

some of us would say “it is better to die on our feet than to merely exist on our knees”

and you know what, we really do mean it

So for me... "labors death throws" is a blessing.. the demise of socialism in any form is a blessing..

acknowledgement, once again, of the failure of collectivism by any name

and the detoxification of "middle-politic" policy.. clearly identifying the greens as the tool of the real danger, the extreme left and assorted lunatic radicals who infiltrated the environmental movement 20 years ago, following the collapse of that evil Russian bemoth

Labor's agonies might have more to do with having promised in 2007 to be fiscally responsible, and then at the first excuse, dumping all its promises and spending like a drunk with a credit card.

Its reversion to the centre and copying the liberal policies are more to try and recapture the centre.

An interesting post Stern in defence of individualism. You say: “it is better to die on our feet than to merely exist on our knees”. This is a quote more or less from Zapata, a man leading a peasant based collectivist revolution against the oligarchy of landlords and captilaist in Mexico during the revolution there.

Before he was assassinated, and drawing from events in Russia, he began to udnerstand that it was Mexican workers and their collective power to remake society that held the promise of the liberation of all of society, including the poor peasants.

I think your mistake is to imagine stalinism as collectivism or socialism. To me it was a form of capitalism - state capitalism in which the state expropriated the value workers created and used it to reinvest in machinery etc in competition with the West. Hence when Hungarian workers rose in a workers revolution in 1956 against the Stalinist dictatorship my political tendency supported the Hungarian workers against the tyranny.

The other argument you will also have to address Stern is that production is collectivised - it is only the rewards of that production that are individualised - to capital who steal the value we workers create.

Passy “is is a quote more or less from Zapata, a man leading a peasant based collectivist revolution against the oligarchy of landlords and captilaist in Mexico during the revolution there.”

Who cares how misguided his politics were,

A leader of collectivist can quite possibly encapsulate the spirit of individualism –after all, it takes an individual to lead a revolution – not the sheep that follow, Passy… but that is hardly a role you seem up to.

“I think your mistake is to imagine stalinism as collectivism or socialism”

Not at all Passy.

Lenin was murdering in the millions before Stalin came to power

Robespierre was not inspired by Stalin when his version of collectivism (by any name) inaugurated the Terror, only to be followed by the Great Terror

And Napoleon, the inheritor of Robespierre & Cos legacy, butchered, raped and pillaged Europe for a couple of decades, reflecting nothing which any collectivist could claim as “merit” in him either.

Regarding “to capital who steal the value we workers create.’

Ah that old chestnut, the notion that the “borrowed funds”, needed to purchase stock and rent premises has no value.

That has been answered here more times than I can think but some dullards either just do not “get it” or live in a permanent state of collectivist “denial”…

But that “denial” is wholly understandable

“denial” is exactly what to expect from a collectivist state…

Denial of freedom
Denied of food
Denial of choice
Denial of a meaningful life

I do not suffer your illusions / delusions regarding the truly perverted nature of collectivism, Passy.

You will die with words like “workers action collective”, “proletariat revolutionary zeal” and the “great class war” dribbling off your enfeebled lips

And I will die saying… “it was better to die on my feet than to exist on my knees” – kowtowing to the local commissar – because will I die with passion burning in my heart

Even you must understand exactly what I mean.

or maybe I will die making love to my beautiful wife

either way, I will die smiling