I am for a fair mand tolerant approach to international students and immigration.

But I am not interested in messages that simply support a booming international student market. Do we really want numbers to increase and increase until they reach a significant proportion of our total education numbers in the university sector?

Some policies should be about common sense, not merely about how many dollars we earn.

As Bob Birrell would highlight, there are many other consequnces which are not as easily measured in dollar terms.

Dilan - here's a newsflash. Foreign students are meant to come, get educated AND LEAVE. We don't want them to "come back".

Also, most academics realise that the foreign student boom cannot last - as nations develop they can develop their own educational systems. The decline in the US dollar and the troubles with public funding of universities there mean that they are also now out to get "our" foreign students and we may have difficulty competing (although students will be far safer here than there).

Australian universities were forced by government policy to become far too dependent on foreign students and we will now pay the price. The bubble is bursting and universities will need to downsize to appropriate levels. Continuous growth in ANY sector of the economy is just not possible.

Stop whinging Dilan and, instead, thank your lucky stars that you have managed to get established here while the going was good.

"If you were a parent sitting in an Asian country would you use your hard-earned savings and send the apple of your eye off to study in Australia?"

Why wouldn't I be asking why my own country can't deliver what I and my family need?

Why is there an expectation that someone else should pick up the problem, and then deliver it to my satisfaction or by golly I'll write some snippy letters and articles pointing out what they are doing wrong.

Finger wagging is not going to solve this.

Do we need this foreign student industry? Do we need to churn the children of foreigners who tut-tut and criticize us, when their own countries are clearly sub standard?

We had an education industry before the foreigners became more affluent and arrogantly decided their own countries education system was not good enough for their little precious cargoes and started to shop around.

Sure, some education facilities have geared up to this and will have to cut back, but that's business - they have over capitalized, it's not an unusual business issue.

We'll survive without the spoiled children of pompous critics and their ilk.

I'm more than happy for this industry to be cut back severely, it brings little but trouble for the community, and it is being misused as an immigration channel. Do these pampered children go back to the countries who cannot even be bothered providing decent education facilities.

It's not a business we should be in at all.

Amicus - Um.... why do so many Australians keep going off to study overseas? Because just like Asians they view an overseas education as valuable.

The author is correct in pointing out that Australian students will lose out. The Australian has said today that under the Libs HECS would rise by 10%.

jj - Australians don't go off overseas to countries who have education farms the way we do, all countries who have a reasonable education system have foreign students - the article is referring to the "business" of educating foreigners as apart to a few foreigners joining our system

I work near a large university, I can tell you in the morning the waves of young people heading to the uni from all the PT is exclusively Asian, or from the sub continent. The buildings are new and were built to service this market niche.

It's not as if they are just fitting in like the rest of the students there - this was built for the foreign trade.

Now when I go to a foreign uni in Europe, USA or Japan, I don't see special facilities being built for this "industry".

It is as michael_in_adelaide says, in Australia, a bubble.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough in my post above - I'm not against students traveling or being educated overseas - I'm irritated at being lectured and having someone wag their finger at us for not meeting their standards of what they expect Australia to provide just because right now they are cashed up and can't be bothered changing the systems in their own countries but expect us to run around making sure all their little darlings are happy.

Australia is not a completely safe place, we do not enforce laws very well, we do not have enough police - that's just how it is.

So they can afford to send their kids here, but then their kids seem to have to work to survive .. how does that affect their studies, sure lots of people work and study, we all did it - but with the sub continent in particular, they seem to come here with additional requirements of us.

Amicus, Dilan was born in Australia as he said in a previous article.

Have you actually see any of the universities overseas? If not, how do you know that they don't educate large numbers of foreign students? And why is it surprising that the two countries with the world's largest populations, India and China, don't have enough universities to educate their own people.

Lots of Australian students also work and study at the same time. If the money that the foreign students bring in goes then their lives will get a lot harder. Birrell's idea of getting rid of the foreign students and educating only Australian students is facile wishful thinking.

The sooner, & the greater the downsizing of our university sector, the better.

The ridiculous growth in the sector, to take advantage of foreign students has been to the detriment of local students, not to their advantage.

All this expansion has been to advantage the management, & staff of the institutions, definitely not to advantage the student base.

Any market has just so many competent players. Double the number of AFL teams, & you lower the standard of the players. Demand by the continually expanding higher education sector long ago exceeded the available talent. Standards in all but a few schools are now so low that even our subcontinent customers are well advised to look elsewhere.

Our home grown students can only benefit by a 50% shrinking of the sector, & a major reduction in make believe courses. Perhaps then we will have less graduates driving taxis, or handing us our "fries".

The international students thing has been nothing more than a backdoor immigration scam. This only benefits the overseas students and the college management.

The unis were built with taxpayers finds and should be for Aussie students, with some invited students from close neighbours, such as Pacific Islands and PNG.

If countries like china, India and Pakistan can muck around with nuclear weapons they can surely educate their own.

Lots of overseas students also affect the the rental housing market, denying Aussie families the opportunity to rent at a fair rate.

Sooner the numbers of overseas students stop coming the better.

Firstly , I see the International Students in two completely different catagories.

I. The sham Colleges.. ie. Hairdressing and Cooking Colleges. One gets the feeling that this is where the backdoor immigration scams are coming from, in the main.

Solution, get rid of them by not allwing any residential qualifications to be attached to their " products " or " graduates"..( ever see an Indian Hairdresser incidentally ? )

2 Universities.

Are we really making money from these, as a whole. Do the fees cover the actual costs AND deliver a profit. It's a concept that I suspect the average University would have a problem understanding. So ,if not then, why should we go looking for this type of student growth?

Finally, are thse students actually harming the Australian Economy, particularly the #1s, by being here and having Australian Jobs, to the detriment of other Job Seekers? I particularly refer to Taxi Industry, once heavily populated by older Australian, now no longer wanted in this Industry as drivers.

Overall, I would prefer to see smaller , better Universities, no sham Colleges and a controlled Immigration System.

Is this too much to ask for ?

meh, we'll survive without overseas students.

Universities may even be forced to go back to providing core subjects. There's too much fluff. I think it would be a good thing to reduce numbers, reduce superfluous subjects that should be handled by TAFE, and bring back some prestige to a university degree.

There's too many people at UNI who don't need to be there and who aren't really smart enough anyway.

The effect of overseas students and the money they provide has created an expectation that every local kid has some inalienable right to go to university even if he's as dumb as...

david jennings - yes I know Dilan was born in Australia - your point is?

Did you read the article it starts out with "If you were a parent sitting in an Asian country" .. now read my post in that context, it is addressing the "parents in an Asian country" so go and attack someone else OK?

And yes, I've spent considerable time in many overseas universities - none of them in Europe, or USA have the incredible amount of overseas students to the point of creating curricula just for that business.

Have you been overseas and seen unis and what they do? Again, go attack someone else

"why is it surprising that the two countries with the world's largest populations" because they know they can buy into countries like ours and not have to worry about building an education system we're stupid enough to pander to it instead of building infrastructure.

"Birrell's idea of getting rid of the foreign students and educating only Australian students is facile wishful thinking." no it is not, you are wrong.

Australia does seem to be already well above its quota.

Australia has about 6 times more foregin studentsd per head of population than the US.

The "industry" of educating foregin students does appear a very fickle industry, and the idea that it is an "export" industry does appear to be some type of "creative accounting"

The $17 billion (or in this article $18 billion) so called export industry is based on what foregin students spend while in the country.

If a student gets a job in Australia and spends the money they earn, that is classed as an export industry by universities.

If a student spends their money on an import (eg buys an imported car) that is also classed as an export industry by universities.

Australian universities are also not that great. On this list of the world;s top universities, the highest Australian university comes in at 91.

http://www.4icu.org/

I think Australian universities may have to stop calling themselves centers for higher learning and start calling themselves centers for ripping people off, while hood-winking the public.

from my viewpoint I'd say most overseas students used to be cooped up in Uni grounds but when they started interacting with the wider community they realised where Australis is heading & now they can't be bothered anymore.

The sad part about all this is that peoples's dreams have been crushed.

Stupid/morally corrupt politicians tying education to residency, should be held to account.

It was a backdoor ploy by population boosters / property developers to give the numbers a massive hit.

Apologies to those genuine students who have been conned.

Cheers,

Ralph

Dilan states the foreign student intake has been subsiding. Because? The student visa criteria has toughened up since the discovery of dodgy migration agents and students hit the headlines. Many new student visa applicants since were assessed as being non-genuine potential students so were refused, and also because of insufficent funds to support themselves. In general, a significant number of foreign students had been seeking local charity organisations due to lack of finances. And the whole issue of foreign students being treated as crime targets has been completely over-blown. Australia has the highest intake of foreign students than any other country to the detriment of our education system. The issues arose since the Vocational education training came into the picture and I hear there are some/many courses that are occupied with over 50% of foreign students who speak in their own language amongst themselves to the detriment of locals. I did also hear an interview with a foreign student who also wondered how this could be happening in an English speaking country.

I'd like to have it explained why the australian education outfit thinks it fit to dumb down australian students yet educate foreign ones. what & where is the logic in that ?

“We can halt the decline by addressing the legitimate needs and expectations of foreign students.”

But do we want to?

The education sector is designed to service the needs of those who largely fund it, Australian tax payers.

Why should Australian tax payers be expected to provide the infrastructure for foreign students to come and undermine the economic advantage which Australia presently maintains?

I know “education” has been used widely to influence foreign policy goals but are we doing this here.... offering course in waitressing and hairdressing... are we seeking out the soft underbelly of some foreign nation by influencing their hair styles and eating habits?

Training foreign students should be a way to either:

Advance Australia’s foreign Policy objectives (and I don’t think the current labor government has any - since dumping Rudd... when the objective was Rudds UN ambition)

Or

improve the utilisation of redundant / surplus education resources.

Beyond that who, excepting those with a vested interest, cares?

The article is about universities. Its not about hairdressing or waiters etc.

The issue is that the decline from the vocational sector has now impacted on the tertiary sector.

dj "The article is about universities"

No it's not, it's about education, Asians who come here for it and how disappointed they are that things are not as they want - and it looks like now they will go somewhere else

boo hoo

"There are some realities that all Australians will need to face up to in relation to Australian universities. First, the Australian government no longer provides all, or even an overwhelming majority of, a university’s funding. Second, fee paying foreign students provide a substantial part of a university’s income. ..."

I think its about universities Amicus. It says so pretty clearly. If you want to be precious you can say its about university education.

Wah Wah wah .....

"No it's not, it's about education, Asians who come here for it and how disappointed they are that things are not as they want - and it looks like now they will go somewhere else"

Yeah, because those Asians should really be more stoic about being treated like cash cows and getting beaten up.

--Special English training programs
--Subsidized accommodation
--Free pubic transport
--Easy citizenship

The above are amongst some of the carrots being proposed, either in this article or elsewhere, to attract foreign students.
I sometimes wonder whether our education providers are running a business or a welfare service --perhaps it’s really another Colombo plan.

And as for this claim: “For a variety of reasons the appeal of Australia as a destination for foreign students has declined. At the same time other countries, such as the UK, the US and other Asian nations are starting to attract more foreign students.”

Yes, I can well envisage more going to the UK or US --though if the Arizona illegal-immigrant initiative takes hold, that venue might lose favour too.But I seriously doubt “other Asian nations” will be heavy competition, since it does seem one of the major attractors --to many of our current influx of foreign students--is backdoor citizenship. And opportunities for citizenship in Asian education provider nations, for any but the crème de la crème, will be very limited indeed.
(I hear Saudi Arabia is planning a big super-duper uni soon –but the chances it will offer easy citizenship are remote –and the likelihood that many of its foreign intake will seek citizenship, even more remote —LOL)

“If we don’t bend over backwards to pander to foreign students, their countries of origin will not like us" is second cousin to the argument “if we don’t take immigrants, our trading partners wont like us”,and nephew to the line, “unless you go to bed with me, we can’t stay friends”