As regards Asylum Seekers Julia should have gone for broke, taking a lesson from Hawk's Vietnamese effort, when he risked allowing possible Viet Commies into Australia as well as non-Commies.

On 'Paul Murray Live' a woman talked about the above, and how right now pretty well all have become good Aussie citizens.

Further, an interesting article by William Dalrymple in the latest Guardian underlies the West's increasing irrelevance in Afghanistan.

Dalrymple believes that more regional players such as India and Pakistan could now sort things out less warlike than big Western powers.

From a historians point of view, could certainly be less murderous than unmanned missiles, only adding to the hatred from the other side.

At least the Labor Party does things cleanly and swiftly. Remember how Howard when suggested he should step down stated he would do so "when the party wanted me to do so" and when they did he stubbornly dug in his toes and asked Janet and the family who said stay - and look what haoppened to him! Funny how he does not learn as he is adopting the same stubborn attitude when not wanted by the International Cricket Organisation- he is not withdrawing his application.
Julia Gillard and the 'Party' recognised that Rudd was going nowhere after dumping the ETS leglislation. His untenable position was discussed and he graciously stepped back

briar rose given what appears to be a widely held view that Rudd was unlikely to win the election and what appears to be a lack of consultation with cabinet colleges I'd be interested to see what course you think Labor should have taken assuming that they were unwilling to have them lead them in the next term and did not want to loose the election.

In real terms it's unlikely that they could go to the election with him as leader but making it clear that he would not be leader after the election.

It's expected that we will have an election within the next couple of months so Rudd got to serve most of the term as PM and voters won't have a PM who was not the leader on the campaign for long. Nor are we likely to see a raft of new policies implemented in that time which were not part of the campaign platform (or started while Rudd was leader).

I didn't vote for Rudd (nor Labor) so I may be missing some of the angst of those who believed in Keven07 but I struggle to see an alternative approach that met the needs of the situation.

As for the article, "If she was a male it would just be seen as the usual changing of the guard." - so just how often have male first term prime ministers been dumped (in the parties first term in office as well)?

Whilst I think Labor acted sensibly to get Kevin out of the PM's chair I think that the authors assertion does not do justice to just how different this was to the normal changing of the guard.

R0bert

RObert, in fact the last Newspoll conducted before Rudd went indicated that the ALP would win the next election, albeit by the skin of its teeth.

Rudd was also set to negotiate with the miners the following week , a negotiation Gillard took credit for after they'd chucked him out.

Gillard is clearly more of a team player, however we have no reason to believe that there will be any great change in ALP policies, whether they have a team player in charge or not.

I strongly object to the incumbent Prime Minister of this country being chucked out by non elected union officials and party factions.

I would just as strongly object to a coalition PM being chucked out by powerful corporate interests.

If the ALP could not get on with their elected leader, the leader who took them back into government after years in the wilderness, then they should have all got relationship counselling. Not getting along with the PM is not a good enough reason to chuck him or her out. What are they, terrified children?

Deal with it, people. Nobody else gets to chuck out the boss if everybody hates him.

The precedent is set. Gillard better watch her back. It's a crazy system if we can't be assured that a PM is going to see out a term. PMs have a big role, nationally and internationally, it's a bad look to chuck them out willy nilly without consulting the punters.

With Julia Gillard's Easter Island plan gone wrong reckon she could ask Bob Hawke what to do.

Reckon he might suggest WA Kimberly area as a station even just for the time being.

Even to make it permanent being directly close to Christmas Island which could be still kept for the more undesirable.

Though the idea sounds unnaceptable surely it wouldn't do much harm to try it out.

Just watched Bob on TV giving thanks for his book, etc, etc, certainly hasn't lost any of the old charm, especially concerning politics, of course.

Regards, BB, formerly of Buntine WA.

briar rose, when if ever could a party dispense with a leader who they considered was not doing the job they were elected to do?

Would it have been acceptable for the Libs to have given Howard his marching orders given that the time never seemed to be right for him? The issue of how long he would serve was an issue at most elections, Costello was criticised for not having the gut's to challenge him.

Rudd's negotiations did not get finished so we will never know how they would have gone. At best for Rudd a compromise would have looked like making the best of a mess of his own making whereas for Gillard it looks like her cleaning up Rudd's mess. Likewise Rudd and Abbott as leaders in an election is a different ballgame to Gillard and Abbott, we will never know how that campaign would have gone but it was looking risky for Labor. Abbott against an arrogant nerd looked effective, the same tactics against Gillard may look like bullying.

I don't like the backroom crowd running things either but those others involved in the party also have a stake in the party, if they believe that the leader is doing bad job should they have to put up with that leader until they are out of power or the leader decides that they have had enough?

There is a few questions in that lot's, I'm not really trying to seek answers individually, rather to understand what you think that the alternatives are.

R0bert