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The Forum > Article Comments > The CSIRO and the myth of progress > Comments

The CSIRO and the myth of progress : Comments

By Cameron Leckie, published 5/7/2010

Busting the myth of progress is a precursor to changing industrial civilisations' current unsustainable path.

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vanna wrote 6 July 2010 2:35:42 PM:

> Tomw, Moodle is open source.

Yes, because Moodle is free, it may be distorting the statistics on the cost of imported versus local software. Educational institutions are not paying for Moodle (from Australia) or Mahara (from New Zealand), making purchases of local software appear lower.

> It is estimated that over $11 billion of taxpayer’s money will be spent on computers in schools ...

$11B is a small proportion of the cost of education.

> So there is a long way to go to repay these costs through Moodle.

For 2007/08 international education was estimated to contribute $13.7 billion to the Australian economy: http://www.idp.com/research/statistics/education_export_statistics.aspx

> ... due to the almost complete use of imported software, an IT industry in this country has become a hopeless proposition. ...

Figures for imported software are not likely to be a true reflection of the situation. Some educators are using free open source software packages. As a result there is no direct software fee associated with this. However, they are likely to be investing in local support for those packages.

In my view, the government could usefully encourage local development of educational software and content, using an open source model. If nothing else, this would reduce the expenditure on imported software and courseware.

As portable hand held devices come to be used more for education this may also reduce the amount of imported software used. The new crop of $200 tablet computers and netbooks are likely to run some version of Linux, not Microsoft Windows. The mobile computers will come with a suite of free software and not need any software to be purchased (I find I don't need to use Microsoft software, or other non-free software for teaching). This will not necessarily reduce the cost much, as software support will still be required, but that support can be from local Australian industry.
Posted by tomw, Wednesday, 7 July 2010 2:53:28 PM
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Tomw,
The situation is that the $11 billion went offshore, when that money could have been spent on developing Australian manufacturing industry, so that Australia would not have to rely so much on industries such as mining.

If you are not a producer, you are not a player.

That is the reality of the world, and because almost nothing is produced in Australia anymore, (and almost everything is imported), Australia will have a difficult time maintaining some type of relevance in world affairs in the future.

Regards computers in education. There is minimal empirical evidence that computers actually improve student marks, it depends entirely on how the computers are used.

The huge expenditure on computers in schools may easily become one of the greatest economic disasters in Australian history, producing no gains for the huge amount of money spent.

The NSW education department placed about 30 programs on the laptops going out to students, and all software came from the US, with nothing from Australia.

Other states have done similar, and by never or rarely using any software from Australia, schools and universities have taught students to believe that Australian software in inferior in quality, and also taught them to import software only.

After such an exercise by the education system, the posibility of developing an IT industry in Australia is pie in the sky.
Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 7 July 2010 7:24:52 PM
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vanna wrote 7 July 2010 7:24:52 PM:

>Tomw ... developing Australian manufacturing industry ...

I am not sure that an Australian IT hardware industry is one to aim for.

>If you are not a producer, you are not a player.

I suggest Australia concentrate on software and services. As an example, Adelaide is focusing on the Defence industry, of which software is a large component.

>Australia will have a difficult time maintaining some type of relevance in world affairs in the future. ...

Making physical goods has little to do with world relevance. New York city makes few goods, but is well know for finance and cultural industries.

>There is minimal empirical evidence that computers actually improve student marks, it depends entirely on how the computers are used.

Yes. I suggest more is needed training of teachers in the use of computers for education and in development of content.

>The huge expenditure on computers in schools ...

The investment on computers in schools is small compared to salaries and buildings. If followed up with investment in training and support for teachers this could improve education and reduce costs.

>... schools and universities have taught students to believe that Australian software in inferior in quality, and also taught them to import software only.

At the ANU in Canberra, myself and my collogues teach students to write software in Australia for export. We use Australian developed software to help do this. The students go to work for the government, as well as companies like Google, who write software in Australia.

>.. posibility of developing an IT industry in Australia is pie in the sky.

Australia has an IT industry. But much of it involves developing software for overseas companies. As a result you may not be aware this software was developed in Australia, by Australians, earning money for Australia.
Posted by tomw, Thursday, 8 July 2010 12:25:39 PM
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Tomw
"The students go to work for the government, as well as companies like Google, who write software in Australia."

Most of the software in government departments is being imported (EG SAP, Oracle, Microsoft etc, most of which is US).

Google is not Australian (but US).

As for the education system, there is hardly anything left that has been made in Australia.

There appears to be a universal ideology within education that as much as possible should be imported in the hope that one day the education system will produce someone smart enough to export something.

Considering the trade deficit, it has not worked yet.

The education system is teaching students to import and be a consumer, but not produce, and there are many, many millions of consumers with very little say regards what occurs in the world.
Posted by vanna, Friday, 9 July 2010 12:53:38 PM
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Tomw,

BTW.

“more is needed training of teachers in the use of computers for education and in development of content.”

This does appear to be true, and I personally know of teachers who don’t even know how to operate email.

So now we have a situation whereby billions of dollars of taxpayer's money was spent purchasing imported software and imported hardware into schools, when many (if not most) teachers do not know how to operate it.

Furthermore, the computers only have a life expectancy of 4 years.

So now the taxpayer has to spend more money training teachers how to use the imported software and hardware, and by the time they have been trained, the computers will have to be replaced, and billions more spent.

Has the minister involved been sacked for this catastrophic waste of taxpayer’s money, and perhaps the greatest economic bungle in Australia's history?

No.

The minister involved has actually become Australia’s Prime Minister.

Has any teacher or university academic highlighted this catastrophic waste of taxpayer’s money.

No again.
Posted by vanna, Friday, 9 July 2010 3:49:08 PM
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