Bruce, you said, amongst many other dubious comments, the "Former Prime Minister John Howard used racism for political ends while denying its existence. It was nudge and wink racism in public, encouraged more blatantly behind closed doors. It went hand in glove with the secrecy that Howard fostered in response to the fear he sought to engender and use in response to what he termed international terrorism".

I find such comments truly astounding, simplistic, and inaccurate.

I would have thought that your experience in South Africa would have given you greater insight into problems with race. I know one African PhD student who would argue the exact opposite to you, as she notes the difficulty of achieving cultural integration and recognising the cultural rights of people from different ethnic backgrounds.

Surely, if you think hard enough, you would also find aspects of Australia to celebrate about our ability to move on and learn from cultural interaction

I agree Chris this article is rubbish.
Putting aside the question about South African 'racism' against refugees implying that they're both black and can't *possibly* be different races (as opposed to white people to be differentiated from), would actually have suggested an actual answer that Bruce doesn't want to acknowledge- that maybe the issue is more complicated than "racists" and "taking jobs"?

And I don't get why people think it was some big secret about the refugee issue over the past decade- most voters didn't want it, Howard leaped on it, Rudd later followed suit. Maybe they wouldn't have had to be so "sneaky" if they wouldn't be crucified for saying their thoughts? Somehow I don't think that would be acceptable to Bruce either.

Anyway, I assume most people have an aversion to some of the refugees based not on their race, or not quite their religion per-se, but on their perceived mindsets and basing it off less-than-successful cases in Sydney's West, and particularly some around the UK.

Sadly, no such debate will ever happen when people keep arguing a binary of "Let refugees in" or "No"- especially when one side feels like their arguments are going to be instantly disqualified if they cite personal safety from fundamentalists and instead keep parroting rubbish about "people smugglers".
The issue does not transcend public/social concerns- it's precisely IS those things, and until some people learn to be a little more open to those interests, they will remain stuck in a minority of whingers who must write the occasional smear article to feel better.

Oh bollocks.

This habit of labelling anyone who has a different opinion on certain matters a "racist" is getting tiresome.

Personally I think the concerns about a few thousand boat people are overdone. But I don't think that everyone who has a different opinion is a "racist".

Are there racists in Australia?

Absolutely.

Is Australia a racist country?

Absolutely not. As someone who grew up in a genuinely racist country I can assure posters Australia is not a racist country. It is simply a country that has some racists.

Is everyone who tells a racist joke a racist?

I suspect many racist jokes are a reaction to political correctness - and to nonsense pieces like this one.

King Hazza, I know a lot of people who are concerned about Australia's refugee policies, and I don't know a single one who unequivocally "argues a binary" of "let refugees in". We are realistic enough to know that you have to detain people for a while to do the necessary ID, health and security checks, and we say there will inevitably be some who are trying it on, will therefore fail the Convention test, and should be immediately deported.

Racism is not our priority - any country will have a few, but they are not the issue in the refugee debate. We simply ask for Australians to open their minds and abandon a few myths, e.g.: Stop calling them "illegals" (the boats which bring them are illegal, but seeking asylum is not). Stop banging on about border security (when was the last time a boat tried to sneak in undetected?). Stop calling them potential terrorists (sure, get ASIO to do the security checks, but when was the last time they actually found a terrorist?). Stop claiming that millions of them are about to turn up (in which year did more than a few thousand arrive by boat, regardless of Australian govt policies and regardless of alarmist predictions?). Stop banging on about queue-jumping, and admit the so-called queue either doesn't exist, or is so dysfunctional nobody could seriously be expected to wait in it. And finally, to both major political parties, stop using the issue as a political football, show some leadership, and cooperate to develop a bipartisan position to the problem of displaced people, concentrating on durable solutions.

Is all of that really so hard for a rich liberal democracy with a rosy self-image based on mateship and the fair go?

Chris Page were you out of the country for the "Tampa election" when John Howard wouldn't allow close up shots of any of the people on the boat for fear we Aussies might think they were people just like us only a lot less fortunate?

And did you not see the campaign poster that proclaimed "We decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come" ?

see John Howard Campaign Launch, 28 October 2001

And there you have it! Able demonstration of why it will continue!

Denial.

This is for me the definitive article on racism in Australia. It does not surprise me that the usual attacks will occur,-and there will be more!

I assume such attacks are based on the believe that there is NO racism in Australia? Hum?

Howard did precisely what Bruce Haigh has said,...and for the record I don't believe for a moment that our so-called Labor Party-whoever is at the helm-will do substantially different

I am sick of people who ran away from their own country, came to Oz for thier own advantage, were allowed to come in, & given every opportunity to prosper, getting on their high horse, & telling us what's wrong with us, & how to run our country, & lives.

These people who have not even touched the surface of life in Oz, should have chosen somewhere else, if Oz is so bad.

People who helped to stuff up their country of origan have no qualification to tell others how to live.

I am particularly sick of this blokes whining. Just who the hell does he think he is. Any sewers around here are in his mind. Funny isn't it, how some people can find what ever they look for. I guess with him, it takes one to know one.

What'd I tell yer'?

Reading what Bruce Haigh blathers about anything is not worth reading, but the poster, Stephanie Cornwall, needs to bone up on the facts.

It IS illegal to try entering any country having destroyed identity documents. It is illegal to enter any country without a passport - and a visa if you come from certain countries. There is no immunity from the law for so-called asylum seekers.

The boats do not have to sneak in undetected. They DELIBERATELY find naval vessels to guide them to Christmas Island.

There is the potential for terrorists to be among them, even though most of them are merely country-hopping economic migrants. Their lack of ID, the ineptitude of our immigration officials, and the advertised lack of deterrents to come here illegally mean that we don’t have a clue what type of person is being let into Australia.

The number of illegal arrivals is irrelevant with regard to our sovereignty. But, even so, the number has drastically increased under the Labor Government since their complete abandonment of any pretence to protect our borders.

There is a queue which the illegals are jumping. There are UN stations in all of the countries they pass through. They don’t try for asylum in these stop-over countries because the UN standards would show them not to be genuine refugees, so they carry on to the soft touch of Australia; leaving, it should be added, thousands of UN-processed refugees in camps for good, because the illegals are taking up the quota.

Stephanie Cornwell, who appears completely disinterested in a fair and orderly way of taking in refugees, asks for “leadership” from politicians. How naïve can she be? Politicians do what is politically advantageous for themselves. And, they are not there to lead, they are there to serve. Rudd toadied to the Left by giving up on border protection; Abbott says he will get back to something the majority approved of, and we have yet to see what the new PM will do. It seems that she will not rubber stamp Rudds failures.

............and etc.,

Having lived in countries in South America, Europe and Asia I can vouch for what Bruce states. Australia unfortunately is very racist.

Australia's racism is pervasive, sneaky and underhand. It is so pervasive that a very large number of Australians simply do not see it. Having said that, I also realize that it is overwhelmingly due to utter ignorance and lack of imagination.

For the hysterical border protection mob. Think a bit outside the racist square. For a country that prides itself on a fair go, being innovative and daring, aren't those who are sick and tired of being pushed around by do-gooders in UN refugee camps, those who take matters in their own hands and at great risk and daring make their way here already Australian? I think they show some quintessential Australian characteristics.

Since when is it Australian to stand meekly in teeny tiny queues that obviously are in no way going to cope even remotedly with the numbers? No way would Australian's interior ever be traversed if Australians were a meek obedient waiting for hand outs and directives bunch.

Australia has some 200,000 people come here permanently every year. We have no idea about their character except that they have skills that Australia couldn't be bothered teaching/training their own to do or have so much money that they can buy their way in as 'business' migrants. At least I know that the boat people are winners and fighters for whom a dip in the housing market or a financial rumble in the stock market will not constitute a major crisis of confidence and fear.

Yes but it is impossible to avoid racism anywhere in the world.

We will all recall the plight of Kenyan and Ugandan Indians, dispossessed and exiled in the 1970 by the excesses of rampant racism.

the Middle east is full of racism and the religious equivalent of racial intolerance practiced by dominant Muslim cultures

Before that we will recall the separation of India into India and the two Pakistans in 1948, for what was largely religious based intolerance but an intolerance no different to racial intolerance.

We have seen Mugabe apply racist and tribalism bias and wreck the Zimbabwe economy in the process.

Similar discolorations seem to affect Fiji.

Certainly what happens in Australia is far less racist in content or intent than say the affirmative action initiatives of USA (which were a central cause of the US banking crisis of recent years) or the upheavals in the European Balkans or all other continents, for that matter.

What passes for “racism” in Australia is an individual thing, not an institutionalised state of the nation and as such, when people are free to make choices, some will make less acceptable ones but better they are free to make personal choices than live in a state of fear of the consequences for daring to express a view contrary to the accepted opinion of some political caucus.

Like several other posters, I consider this article to be a load of misguided, self-loathing rubbish, which would have been better left unwritten.

It is the height of ignorance and stupidity to call people who want borders protected from illegal entry ‘racist’. Our borders should be protected from illegal entry by people of any race or culture.

It is only the ignorant and stupid who use ‘racist’ as a term of abuse because they think that people will shut up because they don’t like being called racist.

Wrong. The word has been misused long enough now to be of little effect; nobody takes any notice.

Of course, there are always genuine racists around. But if anyone thinks that name-calling will stop them from continuing in their racist ways, then those simple souls are wasting their time.

Personally, I’m interested in the truth, not whether somebody is a racist or not. And there’s no truth coming from the people who think that calling someone else a racist is a valid argument against what they say. It merely shows that the name-callers don’t have an argument that upholds their beliefs.

Stephanie, a very good point, sadly as you see these threads go, you will quickly realize why I accuse the discussion of being 'binary'.

Also, you will see a lot of silly presumptions thrown around.
Aside from the ones you mentioned by the conservative side (along with the "Oh no its really because we're worried about rickety boats or smugglers")
-The lack of the security criteria you mentioned, merely "Refugees" as one homogenous group and how we're "not letting them in" (when we partly are, or basing on the processing time (without ever elabaroting the processing time if it is real, excessively long or deliberately infinite)
-And dumb arguments like the issue only floats on the other side 'not knowing how bad it is or otherwise they wouldn't be so mean'.

I know it sounds silly, but most of it has actually been said in seriousness in this thread.

Bruce
Much is done by governments in consultation with the Muslim community especially in relation to counter-terrorism. One cannot ignore the increased threat of terrorism and the government has been very careful in avoiding alienating the Muslim community, opting instead to consult and include Muslim contributions in events such as the SIG Conference.

http://www.ag.gov.au/www/agd/agd.nsf/Page/RWP53655C27AFC3F1E8CA2572250013DAE6

Many ethnic communities raise concerns about unidentified asylum seekers, where there is warranted suspicions about lack of identity papers, in particular when the point of departure has been from safe havens like Indonesia, where the applicant has been living as a resident for some years.

Much of the discontent is media influenced and like all news the good news stories are not reported.

Haneef was a monumental error. The problem was a knee-jerk reaction to information coming out of the UK and once recognised, the failure was in admitting the error. This was unacceptable but was more about lack of accountability and whitewashing than racism.

Racism is based on fear of the different or unknown and this is no different in Australia. However to compare Australia to South Africa is overstating the situation in volumes.

Why are there so many who are easily led to play the racist card when Australia has to be one of the most accepting and safe countries to reside. Acknowledging this is not the same as saying there are 'no' racists in Australia.

I have to agree with Leigh that the racism card is pulled out so often it has become meaningless and does little to add to finding solutions to ethnic tensions and education if concerns about some issues like FGM, veiling, rape etc, are treated with contempt or dismissed too easily as racist.

The catchcry for not discussing many important issues like Big Australia is to use the racist tag - which ignores every environmental and infrastructure concern that anyone might raise, ultimately to the detriment of all Australians.

Racism has to be recongised as a two-way street and intolerance is not always confined to the dominant culture.

Honest dialogue is what is needed not overblown accusations of racism.

Thanks to Bruce Haigh for not letting the sewer rats think they have the weight of public opinion on their side. Typically, as with every other article on OLO that reminds us that racism is alive and well in Australia, there is the indignant chorus of protestation from the usual suspects.

Leigh: << The word has been misused long enough now to be of little effect; nobody takes any notice. >>

Given the way that you sqwawk every time an article like this is published, I think you're protesting just a little too much. You certainly take notice, as do other haters of your ilk.

Excellent comments from Stephanie Cornwall, Seneca, Ginx and Anansi.

Good afternoon, to all you good folk, and Mr. HAIGH...

As a very proud RACIST, I do get a little annoyed with people like you Mr HAIGH, who find it necessary to continually censure and harangue those of us who happen to articulate our beliefs on issues of Race.

You've stated herein, that you'd spent some time in South Africa ? As an individual, who I'm sure is vehemently opposed to the old apartheid system - you'd be very pleased to know that one, Julius MALEMA, is touring around S.A. trying to inspire racial harmony.

Mr MALEMA (leader of the ANC's Youth League), is an influential member of the current ANC Government, led by President Jacob ZUMA.
Mr MALEMA has a rather quaint modus operandi, in order to energize and inspire people, to practice racial accord and amity.

He's been touring the country exclaiming - in rhetoric and song "...kill the Boer, kill the Boer..." and other little ditties like, "...kill the Wizards, kill kill, shoot, shoot the whites...we're going to shoot 'em with our AK47's..." and other
most beguiling and alluring lyrics, ad nauseam ?

President ZUMA did not seek to censor Mr MALEMA, (a senior member of his Government) for his HATE fueled speeches and songs !

Corruption and venality within the ruling ANC Government is everywhere. Crimes of violence in this beautiful Country are of epidemic proportions. Apparently, in the last years of apartheid, the murder rate was, circa 5,500 for 1994. And now it's about 43,000 per year. We are talking of MURDER here ! Who in their right mind, would wish to wear 'blue' in South Africa ?

As I said, I'm definately a RACIST Mr Bruce HAIGH, and proud of it.

Cheers to you all, and Mr HAIGH.

Ginx, I'm assuming that you didn't bother reading anybody's posts before you declared that "attacks" of the article "are based on the believe that there is NO racism in Australia". After all, stevenlmeyer had already acknowledged that racism does exist here.

As for the article, I wonder if Bruce Haigh really lived in South Africa at all. If he did, I'm assuming he lived in a walled compound, nice and safe away from the violence and crime. Otherwise, he would have seen what every South African I have ever met - including many, many family members - sees: race IS the cause of the troubles.

I understand that putting ourselves down is the Australian way, but sometimes I think we need a mandatory dose of overseas travel to see that the rest of the world isn't much better. And that's not ivory tower, 5-star travel. It's on-the-ground, real-world travel.

Poor poor old relevance challenged Bruce :)

"I'm feeling abit out of the loop.. aaah..I have it.. a quickie 'Aussies are racist' rant on OLO...that'll fix it."

Bruce says:

//Officially South Africa is home to around 2 million refugees; unofficially the figure is closer to 10 million. These other Africans are discriminated against. In a country where the Black rate of unemployment is 35/40 per cent, resentment has coalesced into violence against outsiders, who are seen to have taken jobs from locals.//

"seen to have" ? ? ? ur kidding right ?

Then.. to our stunned amazement... this same Bruce says:

//And worse, former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has vilified Afghan asylum seekers saying, even before their claims were heard, that he did not believe them. Incredibly, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he declared that the situation in Afghanistan was improving and conditions right for their return. That is base racism.//

Umm...so... Bruce apparently agrees that Black Racism is fine.. as long as you can see it clearly.. ok..check.

BUT..oooooh dear.. White Aussie 'racism' as expressed by our Prime Minister, who, by the way has access to information a heck of a lot better and up to date than brother Bruce's.. is eeeeevil! -check again.

Black Racism...ok
White RAcism...evil.

But poor Bruce.. the PM's decision is not even 'racist' it's "POLITICAL" and has nothing to do with 'race'..but a lot to do with err..controlling our borders SUCH that.. WEEEEEE..don't end up with 10,000,000 reffo's fighting for every job at Kenworth or Beurepaires.

I wonder if it occurs to Bruce that the "unofficially it's 10 million" is because of POOR Border protection ?

Like I said.. a good ol "Aussies-R-Racist' rant might make Bruce feel more relevant..but only to a small bunch of loony watermelons I feel.

Racist is such a harsh term and always bring the same response. Australians are offended by the inference as we have a long and proud record of kind and loving inclusion of all. For example,
The treatment of the Chinese on the gold fields.
The murder of the Tasmanian Aboriginal peoples.
The white Australia policy
Children over board
Cronulla Riots
The intervention.
Yes i know, "but,but,but". We were slowly starting to make ground on this subject in the 80's but the painful nationalism that John Howard sold as patriotism has set us back a long way. Why if these boat people are such dangerous vermin are we not all communists after we let all those Vietnamese into the country in the 70's. Surely they were just que jumping terrorists looking to take over our happy all embracing family.
OK, it is not that we are racists, but there are issues that we need to be honest with ourselves about and we have a bad habit of denying that we have an issue to deal with here. Admitting the problem is the first step to redemption.

"Ginx, I'm assuming that you didn't bother reading anybody's posts before you..........."

Thanks Oto, -you've given me an opportunity to explain what I meant.

The acknowledgment of racism in Australia is something that may well have been acknowledged by one? poster;-it doesn't make a damn bit of difference does it?

That's the relevant thing for me. I knew that Bruce Haigh's article would be dismissed/ridiculed...(add your adjective): HERE.

The man himself would be attacked. his credibility; his veracity. And it would be done by the same people, as it always is.

Tanveer has just copped it. Hardly par for the course from those who acknowledge racism..?

If it IS acknowledged-why are the usual still getting their Y's in such a knot?

Not to worry, there are still those who will do their best to counter this as you can see-,but it IS a tedious and repetitive exercise you know. Needs must I suppose.
______________________

u pong oo: ThE acknOWledgeD raCiSt. YoU haVE aN inTEResTiNg wAy oF MAkInG YoUR PoINt.

ANyTHinG YOu cAN dO, I caN DO BEttER-EvEN wITh YOur sILly VIewS.

Leigh and pelican,

Thank you for your excellent posts.

Aaaah..that feels better.. a good hit of Ginxoin...intravenously injected of course :)

Nairbe mate.. just a point on the White Australia policy.

It could just as well have been the 'black' Australia policy, or..the 'Slant eyed' Australia policy.. it was a matter of trying to minimuze cultural/racial clashes by maintaining a level of cultural/racial homogeneity.

Sheesh..if we already had the leftovers of the Catholic/Protestant history in our white mob.. does anyone think it would be 'improved' by bringing in heaps of other 'brand x' histories?

I find it astounding that the list of

//'Thanks to Bruce Haigh for not letting the sewer rats think they have the weight of public opinion on their side.//

types... especially the esteemed author of that little polite quote :)... appear to believe, contrary to every bit of education they claim to have had..and every bit of BLARING GLARING evidence from the world around us.... that 'tribalism' stops at Australia's borders and people are somehow magically 'born again' when they reach Australia.

There's a word for that :) Starts with "M" and ends with "N"

*I see it all nowwwww..yes...I see it.. I will now forget that I'm Croat and what the Serbs did to us....yep.. it's gone... 4eva*

.....*poof*...gone.

and so it goes :

G'day all, & GINX...

It's always interesting when denizens of this Forum like Ginx, try vainly to debase others by engaging in commentary of a kind that seeks to be facetious and wry.

Though often enough, whilst he/she exercises the same ol' tautology, there appears to be some incertitude apropos what exactly, Ginx is endeavouring to dispute and convey ?

In some measure I'm poorly educated and somewhat of a dullard. Nevertheless, I do know what I believe. I also know what I am, and what I'm not ? Even so, a few who submit material to both this Forum and OLO, seem to experience difficulty as to what they actually believe and subscribe to.

I guess there is an upside to being a 'dullard' - there's no dubiety as to one's identity or convictions ? Yet, I met this bloke (a stranger) on the first ANZAC day that I had marched. He said to me, only the stupid ever go to war ! Emmmmmm ?

Cheers...Sung Wu.

"Though often enough, whilst he/she exercises the same ol' tautology, there appears to be some incertitude apropos what exactly, Ginx is endeavouring to dispute and convey ?"

Good grief!! upongo;-you go from the subslime to the ridiculous!

I do have to ask, Ginx: was 'subslime' a brilliant typo or a clever play on words? I'm impressed.

................................it wasn't a typo................

SEE what I mean ? how could we get through a day without some interesting (though vacuous) input from dear Ginx :)

Why would Graham ban someone so entertaining?

Sadly Steph (if you're still watching), this is the natural evolution of the kind of thing I was talking about (though I honestly forgot about it because I tend to avoid these threads).

A thread can go two ways:

1
Enough dumb people rigorously reject and debunk stupid stereotypes until they (quickly) cease to exist in the thread because everyone who holds onto them has left realizing they are really out of their league, and take the issue to a more advanced level of debate until all major relevant points and topics are exhausted and the thread concludes.

2
Most people ignore what the smarter ones have said (doesn't matter which side of the issue- or both), and keep repeating the stereotypes until they effectively dominate the thread because the people that know better give up trying to teach the children and leave.
After the stereotypes have been exhausted the thread deteriorates into some superficial stance (eg Australian 1800s prison colony somehow being a factor), and from there it becomes a childish namecalling match, at which point the 'winner' is the person who held onto the dead topic for longest and the last to stop making posts.
(the worst part is, some people reading this sincerely make this their plan)

Steph, in conclusion you assumed more logically-sound people would approach the topic- the sad truth is that from experience, the smart people have to get there first and set a standard- and a lot of them have to do it or else they get quickly obscured by rubbish.

Thank you Bruce. What a brave and incisive article. Please keep at it.

Some years ago I had one article published in OLO, about Corby lighting up the remains of White Australia. There were some 150 comments, the majority of which were of the same nature as those attracted to your article. However there was support from some solid citizens. Sadly they are not here any more. I wonder why? You see, I was not able to have two other articles accepted after my first one.

cheers

Chek

I bow to such expertise on vacuousness.

Bruce Haigh is right.
Sneaky, subterranean racism demeans all those who engage in it.
Australians should be upfront about their racism like their noble
African counterparts.
Once again, we should look to the perfect example of Mohammed for
guidance on this serious issue:
“Before the end of the world, you shall fight Turks, whose eyes are
small and noses flattened and who have ugly reddish faces, like
hammered shields.”
Sahih Al Bukhari, jihad and biography saying number 2928 and 2927

I so agree Poxy.

Let us take every opportunity to emulate those whose belief systems we so despise.