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The Forum > Article Comments > How China harmonises the West > Comments

How China harmonises the West : Comments

By Chin Jin, published 22/6/2010

Xi Jinping visits Australia: from Beijing’s point of view, the West is gradually being 'harmonised' by Chinese policy.

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Mao a "capable" leader.

Hmm. Let it pass.

In the interests of full disclosure, when it comes to foreign policy I am a non-interventionist. Among other things that means Australia should refrain from lecturing other countries. Least of all should the pompous, self-righteous Mr. Rudd deliver any lectures. His pretensions to a place on the world stage would have made Australia a laughing-stock in Beijing, Jakarta, New Delhi and Tokyo had they even noticed him.

What we should do is develop business ties with our Asian neighbours without trying to influence their politics.

And we should make sure we maintain a potent military. Ultimately we may want to go for virtual nuclear power status like Japan. Japan has no nukes but has the capability to deploy in short order should a threat arise. And the biggest threat to both Japan and Australia is a decline in the relative power of the US Navy.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 9:04:29 AM
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Mao "a capable leader".

Yeah right. Reminds of the time that the Communist leadership thought it would improve food production by wiping out a bird species, thought to be pest because it ate the crops. While initially trucks full of dead birds were celebrated, in time the peasants suffered a major famine because there were few birds to eat the insects.

It is pretty logical why a pluralist society will always prevail over a dictatorships, although China's rise does pose some challenges, and no society is perfect.

I, for one, am not impressed by articles about the virtues of Communist China. Leadership potential for the world? Hardly, as hopefully will be revealed in coming years. Even Geraldine Doouge on ABC radio last Saturday noted how a reporter she was with had her computer hacked and mobile interfered with on a trip to China. You would have to be an idiot to be impressed by a paranoid leadership in a mercantile nation supposedly communist yet still increasing inequality.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 9:46:06 AM
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The article states: "There was a simplistic view held by some in the West that once China achieved substantial economic growth, liberty and democracy would automatically arrive. That clearly hasn’t happened."

The above statement is simplistic in itself. Of course it will not automatically happen, but there is some evidence that it is happening. Workers have been striking for higher pay and have been winning pay increases. A summer of industrial disputes is expected, and the Chinese government has apparently recognised that they cannot continue keeping the lid on in that area.

Page 48 of the June 28, 2010 issue of Time magazine has an article on the subject.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 11:25:20 AM
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Steven criticising other countries over human rights is not "interventionist". It should of course be handled in the right way, but open and constructive dialogue in the international community can go a long way to establishing norms that encourage good behaviour.

China is at a prescipise at the moment. Like another poster said, there is some evidence that a growing middle class in China is leading to a cultural shift. This is of course a slow process. But the writer of this article is right to highlight the potential contradiction. A booming Chinese economy gives the CCP an increasing hubris and ability to ignore international concerns over human rights. As domestic social movements grow they may increase their force to suppress them, confident that the rest of the world will do nothing. If Steven had his way they wouldn't even say anything. Kind of like listening to your neighbour beat his wife while you sip tea and read the paper.

As someone who has lived in China and has a great affection for its people, I worry that it is heading to a bloody revolution. The worst and best thing for China would be economic collapse. The middle classes would revolt and possibly shift towards Democracy - but the ruling elite are unlikely to move aside peacefully.
Posted by Grayzie, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 11:59:02 AM
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David f

You are right about labour unrest in China.

Grayzie, you are right about the danger of revolution in China.

However my post focused on what I thought AUSTRALIA ought to do.

Given Australia's reputation for self-righteous preachiness I think a lecture from any Australian PM - let alone one from so preposterous a figure as Rudd - would be counter-productive.

There is also the fact that Australia is such a minor player that no one will take critique from an Australian leader seriously.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 12:30:41 PM
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Thanks Chin Jin

An excellent article.

And yes I agree Mao was "capable" though a total self-seeking bastard.

China appears to be becoming increasingly like Orwell's Animal Farm - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm#Plot_summary with the Party higher ups emulating the worst capitalists.

I'm not confident though that a social revolution will sweep the Party away or democratise it. If the Party survived, while inflicting the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution on the people, the current inequalities between city dwellers and country peasants are minor by comparson.

The PLA (Army) launching a coup may be one process of change. A close examination of the Tiananmen Square Massacre reveals some serious disagreements in the PLA over the Party's "crush the protest directive":

"It has even been said that within the military there was some dissent on whether or not they should break up the protest through aggressive tactics. This left the government working hard to try and piece together a group of troops to go into Tiananmen Square.

...In fact it was even reported that members of the local army (38th Division) burned their own vehicles and left them in order to join in with the protestors." http://learnchinese.elanguageschool.net/tiananmen-square

So armed force (with the PLA the most powerful) could topple Party rule.

The spirit of the PLA's 38th Division in 1989 offers hope.

Here's an article on Australian-Chinese relations http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7324)

and Tiananmen http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9004

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 9:55:05 AM
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I am not sure if China is really succeeding in "harmonising" the West. Or anybody else.

Here is a link to a Time Magazine article discussing Jonathan Holslag's book:

CHINA AND INDIA: PROSPECTS FOR PEACE (CONTEMPORARY ASIA IN THE WORLD)

QUOTES

THE COMING CHINA-INDIA CONFLICT: IS WAR INEVITABLE?

[..]

"…peace cannot be taken for granted. The scope for these two countries to develop peacefully and fulfill their national interests without entering into competition is getting smaller due to internal social pressures and rising nationalism. I am not arguing that they don't want to develop peacefully, but that the options for doing so are not that great. They'll be competing at all levels, not only for economic opportunities, but for regional influence. This will lead to an uncomfortable and risky situation."

"In India, there is already a widespread wariness in the media and in the public domain of China's designs for the region. Is there a similar nationalist feeling in China, which in many ways is far more developed and capable than India?"

"Yes, you can clearly see that Beijing officials are increasingly worried about India's ambitions. If you look at the writings of Chinese experts, they refer to Indian military posturing in the Indian Ocean and also to military partnerships India is developing with several countries in Southeast Asia and East Africa. In the public realm, Chinese Netizens' views of India are very negative. You get the sense the Chinese never seemed to expect India to climb up to the ranks of the great powers. Now, as India attempts to make that leap, the Chinese are very worried of its impact on China's primacy in Asia."

END QUOTES

See:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1974028,00.html
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 10:54:09 AM
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We say in Japan, 'The darkest spot is right at the foot of a lighthouse.' It means you do not see thing which lie just under your nose, probably because you take them so much for granted.
The Western middle-class demanded democracy against absolutist monarcies. People of the West seem to go on from this and think that a Chinese middle-class would do the same.
The West, however, had a cultural and social tradition of Greek city-states, Christianity, free towns, the Reformation, etc., and philosophers like Bodin, John Locke, Rousseau, etc., which all flowed into the making of modern democracy.
Western and Japanese businesses did not go to China so that it would have a democratic middle-class. They went there because there was money to make, first cheap labor and then a huge market yet to be satiated.
We can never say that China would never a democratic country but a democratic China would not necessarily be pro-Western. Chiang Kaishek and Mao Zedong loathed each other, but both, being Chinese, were convinced that China ought to be restored to its historical glory and mission of morally guiding and leading the world. Chiang's rule and Mao's were dictatorship by a single party, the Kuomintang and the Communist Party respectively, and the police. That is how China has been ruled.
The German ambassador in Moscow recently suggested that Russia should join the West in teaching the Chinese Government the norms of European civilaization. This is far off the mark, because the Chinese think their are the best in the world.
The English phrases, to lose face and to save face, come from Chinese. I hope they will learn someday that we have face, too. Unnan City, Japan
Posted by Michi, Monday, 28 June 2010 6:12:15 PM
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Hi Michi

I know what you're saying - that we should all be wary of China, whatever economic attraction it tries to fool us with.

China has just signed a Defence Treaty with the non-aligned country closest to Australia, which is East Timor.

Just as Japan after the Americans lose interest in defending it will be at the mercy of China (and North Korea) Australia will find a Chinese airbase and naval base in East Timor which we can't defend ourselves against.

I say this becaus of the China-East Timor defence treaty signed in March 2010.

So here is the article from the East Timorese Defence Secretary's (Minister's) Julio Tomas Pinto's website http://www.juliotomaspinto.com/publication/1-julio-pinto-news/85-chinatimor-leste-pledge-closer-military-co-op.html :

"China,Timor-Leste pledge closer military co-op[eration]
Friday, 07 May 2010 11:08 Julio Pinto News

Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie (2nd R) meets with Timor-Leste's Secretary of State for Defense Julio Tomas Pinto in Beijing, China, on March 30, 2010.

(Xinhua/Ding Lin) BEIJING, March 30 (Xinhua) -- Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie met here with Timor-Leste's Secretary of State for Defense, Julio Tomas Pinto, here on Tuesday.

Liang said China will make joint efforts with Timor-Leste to push forward bilateral military exchanges and cooperation.

In recent years, bilateral cooperation had been carried out in areas including politics, economy and trade, energy, public health and military, and the two armed forces also conducted friendly cooperation through personnel training and exchange visits, Liang said."

Calling East Timor a future Chinese staging base to pressure Australia or a future land aircraft carrier (for China's superior jet fighters) to defeat Australia's soon to be obsolete F-35s, is of course ridiculous, but it is also TRUE.

Oh well, once Western Australia is a neutralised territory, many of us Australians will have to consider moving to Japan - in 2030.

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 28 June 2010 9:53:47 PM
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Pete, can you swim, if not so well as Murray Rose or Dawn Fraser? You can of course wear a rubber ring.

I do not know what military experts said on strategic implications of the China-East Timor treaty. This is simply a layman's guess of mine.
The Chinese love to look big and grand and to pretend that all is right with the Middle Kingdom. They know this art; they have cultivated it exquisitely in their long history.
The treaty is nothing militarily substantial but an article of their traditional fond accessories, tickling their pride. But it could be turned into China's diplomatic advantage if Australia were to feel intimidated, cowered and become conciliatory.

I agree with Mr. John Lee of CIS that America will lead the Asian century(Why America will lead 'the Asian Century,' CIS Executive Summary, 19 August 2009).
Posted by Michi, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 6:59:21 PM
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Hi Michi

Baucau strategic

I'm specifically interested in East Timor - a place where much influence has been rapidly ceded to China. China's progress in the entire Asia-Pacific is more glacial, so less easy to discern.

Under Rudd's pro China appeasement policies I think military experts (public servants as well as government funded academic/think tanks) were quietly directed to not mention the March 2010 China-East Timor (near) treaty. It was certainly news to a generalist like me. Subordinates could not be seen to be alarmist in the face of Rudd's micro-management of defence and foreign policy. Mere publication of the 2009 Defence White Paper has not amounted to a tangible counter to Australia bending over backwards to China.

As those 2 patrol boats constitute East Timor's navy and because they are also defacto units of the Chinese Navy the (near) treaty is quite significant so far.

I need to find out what it says/implies about harbour and airport improvements as well as possible future Chinese sold/donated aircraft and training for East Timor's airforce to be. It is possible that the focus might not be on crowded troublesome Dili but Baucau a site more fitting for a new harbour and certainly an airport that can take military aircraft:

Baucau is the second-largest city in East Timor, after Dili 122 km away....Six km from Baucau lies Cakung Airport which has what is currently the country's longest airport runway..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baucau

Five km downhill from Baucau is Osolata, once Baucau's port - now with outrigger canoes drawn up on the beach. http://worldpics.com.au/Asia/EastTimor/baucau.html The port, while idyllic, obviously needs work to meet the standards of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLA_Navy ;)

Thanks for referring me to CIS and to John Lee. "America leads " paper http://www.cis.org.au/foreign_policy_analysis/FPA1/FPA1.pdf it is useful but by focusing on East Timor one can see how rapidly China is encroaching on "Australia's backyard"

Sorry to my aid friends for this hard strategic look at East Timor and its beloved Xanana. They love East Timor dearly - and so, usually, do I.

Pete
http://gentleseas.blogspot.com/
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 30 June 2010 12:23:40 AM
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