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The Forum > Article Comments > Climate intervention schemes could be undone by geopolitics > Comments

Climate intervention schemes could be undone by geopolitics : Comments

By Mike Hulme, published 21/6/2010

As global warming intensifies, demands for human manipulation of the climate system are likely to grow.

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Climate engineering? We have already engineered our way into a perfect storm of climate disasters.I doubt if further engineering will improve matters.

Our resources would be better focused on reducing the pollution we are adding to the atmosphere and oceans.

We already have potentially catastrophic climate changes in progress resulting from several hundred years of pollution from the industrial age.I can't see harebrained schemes reversing this.
Posted by Manorina, Monday, 21 June 2010 8:45:40 AM
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Manorina, unfortunately it seems likely that we have passed beyond the point where mitigation through reduction is likely, or even possible. The smart money is now on this sort of engineering, which I agree is pretty dumb!
Remember we live in an economy with accounting that treats both polluters' profits and cleaners' profits as equally virtuous. There is no "good profit bad profit". For this reason some big "solutions" (climate engineering and nuclear for example) are attractive to the same folks that are currently causing the problem!
The chance for cheap effective mitigation probably slipped by while Bush and Howard had us all in a lather about boat people and fantasy WMDs while the vampirish banking system mined western economies close to death.
Sure we could have re-arranged the economy and invested in sustainable energy...but instead we played a shell game and concentrated yet more wealth in fewer hands in the process. The US spent years of national income trying to secure one of the world's last remaining cheap oil sources in Iraq instead of using R&D to make good with what they had. The same sort of players now want to jump on the GW bandwagon by offering big, dangerous expensive "solutions" when things get bad enough to start costing.
As a start, I'd like to see just one sustainable Australian city.
Posted by Ozandy, Monday, 21 June 2010 9:10:30 AM
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Sure engineering solutions are of no use, for the very good reason that the earth may cool all by itself before anything can be done. As you all know we are in the middle of an el Nino, the onset of which led to hopeful pronouncements that this year be very warm like 1998 (also an el Nino year). Unfortunately for those forecasts, this el Nino is already proving to be milder than 1998 and there are indications in sea surface temperatures that we are already switching to an la Nina. Check out http://www.drroyspencer.com/ Spencer is a NASA scientist specialising in satellite measurements and a noted sceptic. Dump the ideology and get out your coats! The looming la Nina may be considered part of the general cooling, thanks to the Pacific Decadal Oscillation switching to a cool phase, but it is too early to state that definitely.
As scientists are now becoming to realise, the oceanic climate cycles are all-important is governing temperature. Human activity counts for little..
Posted by Curmudgeon, Monday, 21 June 2010 11:58:41 AM
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Why would anyone, not a doom sayer, ever read any article that starts with a completely unsupported statement such as, "As global warming intensifies"?

The time for this sort of B grade nononsense is long past. Yes it brings the dills, & fellow travelers out of the woodwork, but is of no interest to any thinking person, with any education to help them.

Surely we no longer bother with anything that comes out of East Anglia, after all we have learnt about the quality of their work.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 21 June 2010 1:43:47 PM
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According to climate commentator Anthony Watts' survey of 1221 USHCN weather stations, almost 90% of them do not comply with American standards by being located too close to buildings and other heat sources. What are we actually measuring?
According to solar expert David Archibald we are headed into a cooling phase. If the powers that be do not acknowledge that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is beneficial to all plant life and world food production and they are not willing to accept what the satellite temperature data is currently telling us, we certainly ought to be alarmed by the spin element of this article.
A species that couldn't even measure temperatures properly or recognise the benefits of the one of the earth's greatest resources brings about its own destruction through unnecessary geo-engineering.
Posted by CO2, Monday, 21 June 2010 2:47:29 PM
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Hasbeen, that was my immediate first reaction as well.

It could have made more sense if it was reorganised to read: "If (opening phrase) "is true, then...(rest of document)".
Posted by hugoagogo, Monday, 21 June 2010 3:56:55 PM
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Mike is an absolute mirror of Dctor Peter Brinkman of the movie "Ghostbusters".
I think we should all howl him down with richly deserved laughter.
Alternatively if he is serious I will buy all his and his mates waterside properties as they are obviously gone for all money.
Any offers, not likely!
Posted by JBowyer, Monday, 21 June 2010 7:09:10 PM
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//According to climate commentator Anthony Watts' survey of 1221 USHCN weather stations, almost 90% of them do not comply with American standards by being located too close to buildings and other heat sources. What are we actually measuring?//

I loved that last bit 'what'...measuring? :)

WE ARE..measuring the dimensions of human corruption, greed and lust for power! "That" is what we are measuring.

OBAMA... just lent $2,000,000,000 to a $15,000,000,000/yr profit making Brazillian Oil company to DRILL in 14,000 ft deep waters in Brazils back yard!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

OBAMA...has just BANNED drilling of shore of USA where it was just 5000 ft. deep. (BP)

GEORGE SOROS..a major supporter of OBAMA is also a MAJOR SHAREHOLDER in 'Petrogas' the Brazillian oil company.

STARVE the US of oil....(Florida)
FIND an alternative supply (Brazil)
INVEST in that alternative. (SOROS)
MAKE MONEY and KEEP POWER.. by 'looking' like you care for the envrironment..(FLorida ban) but by enriching your political supporters through government loans and policy.

Yep.. we totally GET it.

TONY ABBOTT...please..don't be a gullible dupe for this rubbish..

NO....NO.....NO...! ! ! to carbon TRADING!

YES...YES...YES....to a carbon offset contribution (tax) for subsidized solar panels/Grid connect inverters on OUR roofs and in OUR back yard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bh3jWqiUw0 Obama, Joel Rogers and Van Jones (Marxists)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw&feature=fvw this will change your life. over 6 million views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Td7KrN64IQ CRIME INC....EXPOSED.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 8:32:56 AM
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CRIME INC.......it's worth a look.

the "network" of socialists and 'Climate Change/Global Governance'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Td7KrN64IQ
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 9:29:40 AM
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gulp....sorry for another... so soon.

GEOPOLITICS.

USA GOVERNMENT.... OBAMA... SOROS... PODESTA

//Most recently, Podesta served as co-chair of President Obama’s transition, where he coordinated the priorities of the incoming administration’s agenda, oversaw the development of its policies, and spearheaded its appointments of major cabinet secretaries and political appointees.//

SOROS--> CENTRE FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS--> JOHN PODESTA --> WHITE HOUSE/POLICY-TRANSITION TEAM.

WHITE HOUSE --> BANS OFF SHORE DRILLING IN USA.

OBAMA/USA LEND 2BILL TO PETROBRAS FOR OIL EXPLORATION.

SOROS --> BIGGEST INVESTMENT= "PETROBRAS"

"Who wins" ? :)
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 8:45:58 PM
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“Check out http://www.drroyspencer.com/ Spencer is a NASA scientist specialising in satellite measurements and a noted sceptic. Dump the ideology and get out your coats! The looming la Nina may be considered part of the general cooling, thanks to the Pacific Decadal Oscillation switching to a cool phase, but it is too early to state that definitely.

"As scientists are now becoming to realise, the oceanic climate cycles are all-important is (sic) governing temperature. Human activity counts for little.”

No Curmudgeon – Roy Spencer is not a NASA scientist and the science community have known for a long time that the PDO (La Nina and El Nino) and solar activity influences temperature. Given that the sun has 11 year cycles (though highs and lows can last longer), a cooling phase may be occurring since the sun’s activity is winding down.

What you appear to be saying is that global cooling will cancel out the warming caused by greenhouse gases but this assertion lacks scientific validity and so does your claim that “human activity counts for little.” Any impending drop in temperature may but temporarily mask the impacts of greenhouse gases which are being dumped in the atmosphere at an unprecedented rate.

Furthermore, Roy Spencer stated in the link provided that:

“What follows is not meant to be publishable in a peer-reviewed paper. It is to keep the public informed, to stimulate discussion, to provide additional support for the claims in my latest book, and to help me better understand what I know at this point in my research, what I don’t know, and what direction I should go next.”

Since you are not an authority on climate change, I sincerely trust that the book on climate, that you are about to launch, has fewer jaw-dropping, bad-ass blunders than those in Ian Plimer’s Heaven and Earth? Considering your errors here (and elsewhere), I am not all that hopeful.
Posted by Protagoras, Tuesday, 22 June 2010 10:10:34 PM
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Here we go again. Do you people just have these things ready to cut and paste?

Yes ALGORE, we get it, concern about global warming is just one giant conspiracy. Now go away!

I thought the reds under the bed stuff had died out about 1990, but it seems I was wrong.

By the way, JBowyer, as a movie tragic myself, Peter Venkman (not Brinkman), Ray Stantz, and Egon Spengler are the three scientists in Ghostbusters and for the record, within the context of the story they were right!
Posted by Loxton, Wednesday, 23 June 2010 12:00:02 PM
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