Loudmouth: Now that sounds more sensible. You are not as cheeky as I thought? Good salesman eh? What do I do on cold nights eh? (Cheeky as they come isn't he gals) I go to bed with my electric blanket on, and watch my TV or DVDs there. With my doggies. Where I live darlink' the temps go below zero at night, and with electricity so expensive, I save on heating.

But more seriously, in UK, the Muslims are getting a lot of flack, as in France too. As some Muslim countries are theocracies and their laws are tied in with their religious laws that are generally more restrictive than civil laws. Whereas in most democratic
countries any religion is separate from State. in fact S-116 of the Australian constitution states, '...no one should be discriminated against because of their religion, and the State can not favor one religion over another...' That's where the problems are developing in UK. The Muslims want to introduce their religious laws into the country.

I believe that everyone is entitled to civil rights, but not if those
rights trample on others civil rights. So should the Burqa be banned,
I don't think it should, it is a personal choice. It's a matter of education and perception. When in Rome etc., and covering our bodies from head to toe with only eyes peeping out, is to some not a matter of religious faith, but of oppression.

"Are we moving from birqas to nikabs now?" The only difference is some mesh across the eyes, Joe.
If you think that these girls'/womens' moving about in the general community, clad in a tent, somehow will result in a change in their social position/development then that's your belief. I trust you are right.

Blairbar is right. I thought we were discussing the Burqa?
The eyes are covered too when women wear the Burqa.

It is not a religious issue because the Koran does not require women to cover their eyes out in public. The holy men in their society first required that they wear them.

If they want to wear the nikab (only eyes showing) or any of the other head scarf/clothing, well that is fair enough.
But don't tell me that hiding the eyes(soul?) is their 'right'.
They also have the 'right' to be able to see properly when they are out of the house.

If the muslim men (and yes, some women) feel they need to cover everything up, including the eyes, in a modern country such as Australia, then perhaps they aren't really ready to live here.

"If the muslim men (and yes, some women) feel they need to cover everything up, including the eyes, in a modern country such as Australia, then perhaps they aren't really ready to live here."

Thank-you suzeonline for perhaps the most profound comment I have read on this and like forum subjects in the past few months! Absolutely spot on!

BTW if the burqa & niqab brigade were to modify their garb slightly so that the wearers face (identity) is clear from eyebrow to chin level, I think most 'objectors' like myself would have no further argument.

Hi Blairbar,

I certainly don't suggest that "these girls'/womens' moving about in the general community, clad in a tent, somehow will result in a change in their social position/development" directly, but - give it time - an indirect consequence of women's experiences over time, and the internal dynamics of their home-life and social interactions, not least with each other. And of course, the consequences may not be what we command, demand, order, or proclaim as we intrude into the lives of other people. [We are still writing about burqas, right ? Not just any gown-like attire ?]

Blairbar, Suze, MsnDivine,

We have a strange culture in Australia, whereby we support both the freedom of expression and the freedom of belief. In other words, in addition to the expression and beliefs of which we approve from on high 100 %, Australians are allowed to express themselves, and hold beliefs, which do not agree 100 % with our magisterial approval - some expressions and beliefs may be actually quite different from our own superior ones, and may even conflict sharply with our own (horrors ! Out, out !).

Yes, Australia is a funny place, where all sorts of crackpots can quietly go about their business - fundamentalist Christians, comspiracy theorists, UFO-spotters, adherents to any one of the multitude of Marxist splinter-groups and Light-to-Dark Greens, atheist bishops and Christian Socialists, anti-Rudd Labour Party supporters and anti-Labour Party Rudd supporters, and so on and on.

So while I sympathise with your craving to sink the boot into SOMEBODY, anybody, particularly the most vulnerable - I have certainly felt like that at times, myself - I respectfully suggest that how Muslim women dress is not your call - but it IS their right in an Australia which allows, and cherishes, those freedoms.

Joe Lane

'The truth shall set you free, but sometimes it can be a real b...'

Banning the "Burqa...Burkha" is not anything to do with religion feminism or any of the other senseless arguments placed up
We have a law in this country that you cannot enter any secure area with the face covered ....eg A Mask, a Full Face Helmet etc
A Burqa/Burkha covers the face ...hence illegal to wear it in Banks, Courts and etc
I have no problems with the head being covered or all the body for that matter ....but the face must be shown simple as it is
This is the Law of this country now and it needs to be adhered to
If people want to wear the Burqa/Burkha then go to a country that participates in that practice
If I enter your home I enter by your rules if I don't like those rules I leave .....I don't have the right to tell you to change to suit me .........SAME APPLIES TO THIS COUNTRY