SOCRATEASE...

you have it in a nutshell mate. But don't waste your time trying to 'persuade' the Marxists here.. they are rather untouchable with rational argument.

A minor point though.

You said:

I am no apologist for the state of Israel.In fact I am totally opposed to their theft of Palestinian land and homes.

If someone came along and intimidated you off your farm.. gave you an 'offer you could not refuse' and ended up on your place with you off in some dingy digs scrounging to survive..then some gallant person came along and showed you away of getting your land back... and ridding it of those scum who pushed you out....would you not be attracted to the idea of rectifying a crime against you ?

Of course.

When it comes to history, we all have our convenient starting points.
For the Palestinians and our resident Marxists..it's 1948 "Israeli Theft of 'Palestinian' Land."

For the Jew...it is around 1400 bc and continues on now.. one long sometimes interrupted history of Jewish occupation of a divinely promised land.

I cannot and will never call "Isreal" ..."Palestinian" land.

I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." (Gen 17:6ff)

HAMAS CHARTER Part 3 Article 11
http://middleeast.about.com/od/palestinepalestinians/a/me080106b_2.htm

This is the status [of the land] in Islamic Shari’a, and it is similar to all lands conquered by Islam by force, and made thereby Waqf lands upon their conquest, for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection.

Notice the admission 'Conquered by force'?

ALGOREisRICH (HEisALSOSEPARATINGFOMTIPPERGORE)

My guess is that God is on both our sides, or neither. You may think of that next time you get a parking ticket.

You may also wish to hatch out into the post-tribal world, and replace your magical, childish fear and vengeance fantasies with the reality confronted and negotiated by the Good Samaritan, in an old parable about loving your neighbour.

And I think it's worth a reminder that the fellow who told this tale, of courageous and practical mercy shown in spite of cultural prejudices and taboos, was a Rabbi.

<< "Those who curse you, I will curse" >>

Sheer mumbo jumbo.

Polycarp
The problem is with A wiki mentality like yours is that facts are nice but only part of the the calculation.
A bigger part is *Context*. However, they can be used like statistics to IMPOSE any context that a zealot may dream up in their fevered brow.

True wisdom comes when facts + reality + proportion determine the context.

If one doesn't the result is similar to translating the lyrics of a song into Japanese by an on line translator then back again by the same method. The result is a lot of words, facts that bear no cogent linkages ....a ridiculous rant

The result is text that doesn't make sense.

To all the delusionals:
"We need to always remember that we aren't North America or Western Europe, we live in the Middle East, in a place where there is no mercy for the weak and there aren't second chances for those who don't defend themselves."
Barak (No, not Obama)

Sir Ivor

Who's side is God on ? :)

I was stirring a bit... God so loved the WORLD....that He gave His only Son...that whosoEVER believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16

That rather explains the current state of affairs.

Unfortunately when discussing Israel though.. it can get a bit one sided..."Israel BAD...Palestinians GOOD"

The Mumbo Jumbo that mr Morgan asserts is a bit deeper than that.
At the time it was uttered..and during the life of the Israelite Theocracy.. it absolutely applied. Israel itself was punished at times because of disobedience to the Covenant.

As for the present time, we should just be aware that for the religious Jew.. the New Testament does not exist.... so.. his mindset will still be as I said, -validly or not living in the Genesis language.

No offense intended.