Protagoras...I'm warming to you :)

DAVID G "tolerating religious myths and superstitions"

You mean like the myth and superstition that "Socialism will solve the worlds problems and that the leading (scurrilously capitalist rich)Greens actually care about the environment" ? :)

CELIVIA

"So far, nobody has come up with a reasonable argument why the burqua should be banned. "

Hmmm.. r u reading all posts ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/06/2891505.htm

Do you regard this as
-unreasonable
-reasonable
-Media lies
-Just an isolated and insignificant incident.

Or. please tell me what statistical level of 'burka bandits' would trigger your outrage or at least acceptance of the idea they should be banned for this reason alone if no other good one can be found?

Strange..I recall from years ago when it was suggested that it should be banned because of men disguising themselves in them for robberies.. it was poo poo'd by quite a number of people who tend to regard themselves as absolute oracles of pc truth.

Now that it HAS happened..they STILL dribble their same pc rubbish as if it had not.
I guess that is what complete bigotry is made of "Don't confuse me with facts..I have my mind made up" :) It's like an endless loop.

Oh wait.. it happened again..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1277786/The-Burka-Bandit-strikes-Knifeman-raids-travel-agent-year.html

and..A-GAIN!
http://theopinionator.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/03/burka-bandit-he.html

That endless loop is wearing thin :)

Enuf reasons yet?

By Legal Eagle>>
Should our own discomfort be a reason for banning the burqa in Australia?<<

It is the absolute right of anyone to wear anything they like along as it does not compromise existing indecency laws.

It is the sovereign right of a nation to implement laws for the common good and safety. Legislation should be put in place banning total body coverings from all state and federal offices. You cannot do any transactions with a govt department if you wear a sack to hide your face. They just knocked back such legislation in N.S.W.
A common sense piece of legislation that was knocked back because of political correctness, and more to the point political expediency in regard to protecting the ethnic vote.

Any security concerns can easily be allayed by regulation and practice, rather than legislation. I think that it would be quite reasonable for the burqa to be treated in much the same way as a motorcycle helmet or a balaclava, and that businesses, government agencies, airports etc are entitled to refuse admission to somebody who is unable to be identified because they are wearing a burqa. No need to change the law on that account.

Mind you, I've heard that men sometimes wear women's pantyhose over their heads to disguise themselves during robberies - should we ban the wearing of pantyhose?

As for taking offence - surely that is the responsibility of those who choose to be offended by a woman wearing a silly, but undoubtedly modest outfit. To say that because we allow governments to dictate that we must wear clothes for the sake of decency, it then follows that we should allow them to dictate what kinds of clothes we are allowed to wear, is utter nonsense.

I'm reminded of an old mate of mine who went through a Buddhist phase and went off to India to become ordained as a monk. When he returned, he duly wore his saffron robes into town. Twice. I figured he realised how ridiculous he looked.

I think that if the burqa is not made into a political symbol the way those who want to ban it would, it will ultimately go the same way in Australian society. If it is inconvenient and embarrassing to wear, I think that Muslim women will utimately abandon it - particularly since of course the great majority of Muslims will be increasingly secularised as they are absorbed into Australian society over succeeding generations.

P.S. dickie - I must be pretty bright then, eh? Not only am I aware of the potential problem, but I address it by trimming my moustache regularly. But I don't think the government should legislate to make it compulsory :)

divine_msn: << The LAW requires every other Australian to be identifiable in public. >>

Which LAW is that, exactly?

I am wondering why this whole discussion isn't turning around how moderate and progressive Muslims can be encouraged and supported in Australia. I assume it is because some just want to vent their feelings either way, which is a waste of time and descends into silly statements, nagging and abuse.

Tents for women, Sharia law and ignorant old buggers telling everyone what and what not to do must not appeal to a large majority of Australian Muslims, especially youth. Equally the greatest majority of people including the greatest rump of Christians - who are very moderate - support our secular State and rebuff bishops who would control them.

The change has to be led by progressive Muslims, it is unreasonable to think that it can be forced down from above. That sort of high-handedness just creates and strengthens negative beliefs in presently uncommitted others, leading to anti-social behaviour.

Obviously we should show religious tolerance and that is a given, but in what other ways can we show support for and encourage the many moderates in all religions, including Muslims? I really cannot see how we are getting off on the right foot by putting so much angst and invective into a sack worn by the few who will in all likelihood continue to retreat from change for the remainder of their lifetimes.

Dear CJ

A man wearing pantyhose over his head walking down the street suggests 2 things - either bad intent or mental health issues.

You would be reluctant to allow him through the door of your establishment I'd wager?
Even then there may be enough of the persons features revealed to make positive ID.

A walking sack aka burqa with unidentifiable person underneath would not necessarily arouse the same immediate suspicion especially amongst the scared of being 'intolerant' set. However as disguises go it's a winner and been used in commission of crimes here and overseas.

Yes it is very possible the burqa will become extinct over future generations of its current adherents provided 1) we don't get subsequent waves of burqa wrapped immigrants and 2) dominant males within these groups stop insisting on this 'protection of family honour'

Once again the religious comparision is made with Buddist robes. Burqa is cultural garb. Get it! Clothing designed to keep women safely hidden and isolated from the 'outside world' and closely controlled by the dominant male/s in their family along with arranged marriage, restricted education and vocational opportunity and so on. Unlike your Buddist buddy ...

Political symbol? Why not? What's wrong with Australia saying it's not acceptable to wear garb that completely obliterates your identity? Or even what the burqa represents is completely un-Australian, therefore unacceptable?

Tell me CJ - is it acceptable or legal to dress up and go about in KKK garb? That's a political symbol. Likewise wearing a heap of Nazi regalia might bring you into contact with law enforcement.

Regarding my comment about law, I haven't phrased that well and possibly inaccurately. I shall research further. Law DOES require any person to identify themselves to a Police officer or like authority and for purposes of confirming identity - licences tickets etc. Most of the burqa set object vigorously to this.

I have no objection to your beard CJ. Kept neat and clean, facial hair looks manly and protects the skin from a harsh climate. Quite culturally appropriate in fact!