Pynchme, "Cornflower I don't know why you're presenting that link as it refers to a wide range of contributing factors"

But you just said it yourself, there is a wide range of contributing factors, it is not all down to nurture and genetics plays a part.

This was in response to the assertion, "that child sexual abuse, emotional abuse and physical abuse as children was in the medical history of almost all of the patients in the huge Psychiatric hospital he worked at in Ireland over a period of 30 years."

Didn't you read the subject quote that I was challenging? The inference was that "almost all" mental conditions (and that doesn't exclude many), are caused by ill treatment as a child, especially sexual abuse. That is wrong. That may often be present is insufficient to imply causation, otherwise the crowing of the rooster would indeed cause the sun to rise.

There is already a peak initiative to dramatically change how health services are managed and it is prudent to hold everything in place and not prejudice the improvement effort. Of course there will be elbows out from professionals and organisations, public and private to protect or increase their turf and that is where too much of our taxes are lost through poor targeting, co-ordination problems, duplication and complexity.

Meanwhile it would be wrong to think that government is uninterested in child and youth mental health and suicide and that all of the work is being done by NGOs who are under-resourced by government. There is the report by the Senate Community Affairs Standing Committee on Mental Health Services in Australia titled Towards Recovery: Mental Health Services in Australia (September 2008). The report concluded that further investment, leadership and cooperation are required to achieve an adequate community-based, recovery-focused mental health care system in Australia. The federal government's own auditor (ANAO) will follow up on recommendations.

Hi All, Cornflower.
I cannot argue too much against your comments, except to state that all of these committees, etc. come down with recommendations and then it take quite a while before the government makes a decisions to do a "little". Once that decision has been made there is a further wait until it commences, possibly 3-4 years.
One of the areas of my interest is disabled children. I and others have been fighting for year for better support and facilities not only to the victims but also their carers, e.g. parents or others.
Some who are profoundly disabled are put in elderly citizens care units and there are many instances where they lay in their own mess because there is not sufficient staff or that those are not trained to work with disabled. The criteria for disabled are different from elderly and their needs are often different.
Another example is those suffering ADHD. Governments are reluctant to recognise this condition and tend to put these children off. It is recognised by most of the world.
Another relates to children suffering from Autistic Spectrum disorders. Children are assessed using among other criteria an IQ test. Children assessed below 70 IQ level receive all of the assistance possible, mostly by charity organisations but should that child shows an IQ above 70, then they will be placed in mainstream education, even if, despite a high IQ they cannot communicate. The system dooms them to failure, yet Britain and most of Europe treats the condition differently. If they suffer from any of the Autistic Spectrum condition they are provide with whatever resources and support they need, regardless of their IQ.
Australia as far as I am concerned is so far behind the rest of the world that it is almost criminal.

Hi All, Cornflower.
I cannot argue too much against your comments, except to state that all of these committees, etc. come down with recommendations and then it take quite a while before the government makes a decisions to do a "little". Once that decision has been made there is a further wait until it commences.
One of the areas of my interest is disabled children. I and others have been fighting for year for better support and facilities not only to the victims but also their carers, e.g. parents or others.
Some who are profoundly disabled are put in elderly citizens care units and there are many instances where they lay in their own mess because there is not sufficient staff or that those are not trained to work with disabled. The criteria for disabled are different from elderly and their needs are often different.
Another example is those suffering ADHD. Governments are reluctant to recognise this condition and tend to put these children off. It is recognised by most of the world.
Another relates to children suffering from Autistic Spectrum disorders. Children are assessed using among other criteria an IQ test. Should that child shows an IQ above 70, then they will be placed in mainstream education, even if, despite a high IQ they cannot communicate. The system dooms them to failure, yet Britain and most of Europe treats the condition differently. If they suffer from any of the Autistic Spectrum condition they are provide with whatever resources and support they need, regardless of their IQ.
Australia as far as I am concerned is so far behind the rest of the world that it is almost criminal

Cornflower, it is all very well to have your own opinion on this forum, because that is what it is here for.

However, it is another matter entirely to argue against what medical personnel have worked with for many years, when it is painfully obvious that you don't know what you are talking about.

For the record, I never said that I, or my mental health nurse relative, noticed that sexual abuse victims were more prevalent in psychiatric wards or mental health units than any other form of child abuse at all.
All forms of abuse were on record- often with more than one abuse noted for each patient.

I myself have two close relatives and two close friends who are in the psychiatric system right now with severe depression.
All were treated badly as children.

This is not to say that ALL mental health patients were abused as children, because that is not true.
What I am saying is that it is by far the most common reason.

There may also be other problems leading to their condition too, but none as common as child abuse.
How many psych patients have you known?

suzeonline, "How many psych patients have you known?"
That is the sort of numbers gathering and analysis I was criticising.
Child sexual abuse is an abomination and all agree with you on that, but what about looking at a broader canvas in this thread?

professor-au
-What prevents change is the question.
-A dysfunctional system remains that way because those involved derive benefit from it remaining dysfunctional. I gave some examples earlier.
-There is no strong, effective leadership.

Ladies & Gentlemen, sorry to disappoint you, but you have all, with respect missed the point.

Professor-au was getting close to it, by pointing out that successive bureaucracies have been failing, buck passing, not cooperating with each other effectively, etc. It does not matter what the problem is from AGW to Hospitals to Zooming peak hour traffic, not.

Politicians & bureaucracy have been worsening rather than fixing everything. We need electoral reform. Our system may have more transparency, accountability in it than the system in North Korea. But does that mean it is perfect?

Government departments at all 3 levels have shop front offices all over the place, where the public interact with public servants, to pay their rates bill, renew their licence or pension card.

Perhaps all government departments should stop interacting with the general public directly. Perhaps we should all be going to our local members office to access all government services.

Whatever issue we are concerned about electoral reform is the answer.

Runner was also getting close too, improving mental health services is about treating the symptoms of mental illness when the cause of child abuse/neglect is dysfunctional families & deadbeat single mothers. Any change in family law which reduces divorce will save more children from being abused in the first place. Placing children full time with their biological fathers is the least dangerous place for them.