benk: <"I just wish to point out that many Muslim women are happy to cover their head before leaving the house.">

Very likely true.

However I am more interested in what happens if a woman (wife; daughter) 'decides' not to cover her head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpV_cJ5E0wQ

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18277927/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71O4_JbU_GE&feature=related

Too right Pynchme and while the going is good benk might as well blamed for these burqa clad bombers as well:

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/burqa-bombers-kill-41-at-kacha-pukha-refugee-camp/story-e6frfku0-1225854998736

- 41 dead and 61 injured and it is all your fault benk.

See what happens benk when you say something really insensitive and inflammatory like, "These women cover their heads in much the same way that you or I put clothes on before leaving their house"? Now you didn't realise just how politically incorrect that statement could be, now did you?

Hey Benk, check your own dam' 'facts'; I was expressing an opinion. Not an unreasonable thing to do on a site such as this, I would have thought.
The parallel I was drawing rested solely on this concept of 'message'.
I don't believe anyone wearing light or skimpy clothing is deliberately telling the world: "Hey everybody, I'd really like to be forcibly penetrated!" Probably not even prostitutes.
I think the only 'message' they are sending -including Kate Ellis and ol' mate the mad Abbott- is 'this is me, and I'm not ashamed of it'.
And why should they be?
I have never understood the logic behind the Christian attitude of being ashamed of our bodies; especially since we are supposedly 'made in God's own image'.
Although I do understand why old fashioned Christian and Muslim males don't want anyone to look at 'their' women; this attitude is simply one of ownership.
"Love, honour and OBEY".
On the subject of 'PC', is Ms Turner suggesting that it would be more appropriate for someone in Kate Ellis's position to show she's comfortable with being overweight?
Or should she be ashamed or defensive of not being overweight?

Grim

Your exact words were; "A few months back, a skipper of an American warship made some scathing remarks about the skimpy and revealing clothes Darwin ladies were wearing.
“Ladies, think of the message you are sending...” he proclaimed.
Isn't this precisely the attitude Muslim men display, in insisting their women cover up? That men simply can't control themselves, and that women are simply about manipulating men's helplessness?"

The American marines are actually different to the navy. Your claim that he thought that scantily clad women were asking to be raped is also factually incorrect. His argument was that these women would attract the attention of sleazy men but fail to impress nicer men. No-one has claimed that either Kate Ellis or the lightly dressed women of Darwin are asking to be raped or anything like that.

I merely questioned the accuracy of your claims and the strength of your arguments. Also not an unreasonable thing to do on OLO.

Suze

We all agree that many Muslim women have dress codes imposed on them. Pynchme pointed out just how far some men will go to ensure that these dress codes are followed. I have just pointed out that we all have standards of dressing and expectations that we are expected to follow and that these conventions feel totally natural to most of us and we are happy to follow them. Many Muslim women feel the same. Many don't.

"Pynchme pointed out just how far some men will go to ensure that these dress codes are followed."

She was right, but just while the decks are being cleared it is worth noting that it is not just men who support and enforce religious traditions. For example, the strong public supporters of the veil and burqa in Australia have been women not men.

Similarly in (say) the Catholic church while the priesthood is male, mothers are acknowledged as the backbone of church, ensuring traditions are maintained and ensuring regular church attendance. Italy provides excellent examples.

Religious fundamentalists are not constrained to one gender.

What Cornflower says is right.

What women wear is mostly driven by different groups of women. The womens mags drive beauty, the youth mags drive the sexy outfits, and the ultra conservative drive the "body image" (read cover up and hide yourself away) outfits.