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The Forum > Article Comments > What’s killing the great forests of the American West? > Comments

What’s killing the great forests of the American West? : Comments

By Jim Robbins, published 31/3/2010

Huge tracts of forest are dying off at an extraordinary rate, mostly because of outbreaks of insects linked to climate change.

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Anthropogenic climate change? Maybe.

Anthropogenic repair? I don't think so (Dopenhagen anyone?)

Sell the car by all means but we're just gonna have to ride this out.
Posted by hugoagogo, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 10:18:52 AM
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The climate changes to date are supposed to have caused these vast changes in American forests? Pardon me, but pigs rear end. The major change is arguable about half a degree on average since the mid-70s. But that's global. Its known that the US temperature experience is different in that the 30s was at least as warm as now.
In addition, you will note from the article that the author is not claiming the beetles are the direct result of climate change but that the change has increased their range. But that issue is also greatly complicated by land use changes.
Note this passage: "In addition, the past suppression of fire and the fact that many Western trees are reaching the age at which beetles target them - 80 to 100 years - are also factors in the widespread loss of forests."
Quite so, people have proved to be nuisance by their insistance on putting out forest fires - fires that would have ravaged the author's beloved forests and greatly reduce the incidence of beetle infestation. Added to that is a throw away comment on the Amazon forest which would seem to be wrong. Again the author would have been better employed examining changing land use patterns in the Amazon, particularly the habits of indigenous farmers, and forests regrowth, rather than worrying over small climate changes in an area that's already close to the equator.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 10:24:27 AM
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Curmudgeon.
You put that very well.
Posted by phoenix94, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 12:33:03 PM
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Er, Curmudgeon ... last time I looked - Alaska, Canada and the 'north west' weren't that "close to the equator".

And really, rather than lump it on the author of this article, why not just drive the stake into the real messengers - the scientists that conducted the actual research? [Text deleted for abuse.]
Posted by qanda, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 3:37:57 PM
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I have been waiting for this to be bought up lol.
In the 1970's the story was native forest die back all the trees are dying there will be none left blah blah blah.
Same time the Amazon rain forest was gone by the turn of the last century.
Guess what, reduced probably but all gone no! Of course They had to say that so we would buy the authors new book sorry I mean get really frightened.
What a joke, when is someone going to tell me when the Australian forest is going? Except for the million acres burned by fires this century. Caused by Greenie thinking they know how to run things. This makes me sick.
Posted by JBowyer, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 4:08:21 PM
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Lots of generalisations but no specific proof.Huge tracts of Aussie bush dying off? I have seen no such evidence except for the Red River Gums dying for too much salt due to irrigation.Our bush regenerates very quickly.

The Crown of Thorns Starfish was going to obliterate the GBR.Not mentioned today.We need a better scare.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 7:33:33 PM
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Proof for your assertions Mr Robbins?

It seems very likely that there are other explanations for the observed phenomena than 'climate change'. Land-use changes for one. Trees reaching the end of their life-span another. And most likely there are other issues known and understood, and some not.

I'm sorry. I'm not buying it until you provide evidence.
Posted by Herbert Stencil, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 9:56:24 PM
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Intriguing ...

Apparently it's ok for the average joe/jill to "abuse" scientific researchers by inferring they don't know what they're talking about.

Apparently it's not ok for scientists to infer that those same joe/jills NOT specialised in spruce, fir or mountain pine beetle habitats have got it all wrong.

Simply astounding! On the other hand, why am I not surprised.
Posted by qanda, Thursday, 1 April 2010 9:18:56 AM
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A contribution I wish to make is that here in my dwelling climate change and erratic weather changing is indeed impacting upon insects breeding patterns cross breeding and behaviour.

An example: after the influx of rain last year and this year, insects are now happier in my gardens including the wasps who normally would swipe me at the clothesline every year for ten or so years through 'significant droughts' along with Ants' biting behaviour.

Bees angry around the clothesline when the plants were not feeding them. Not since the regular deluges last year and this year. Spiders bred at an alarming rate, cockroach and mice plagues in abundance [these comments from many neighbours]. All after regular rains resulting from climate change.

One only need observe the locust grasshopper plagues stripping the crops during certain conditions and the overseas arrivals of beetles, insects fireflies doing damage in Australia; a result of climate change making conditions ripe for certain insects relating to certain vegetation. We have to take the negatives with the positives. Australia has suffered significant drought for too many years; crops vegetation and our forests suffering many more years than other overseas countries.

At present in Australia; I am thankful temporarily for the climate change that has brought years of overdue regular rain into our states. Thank you God for the wonderful Easter gift; on the other hand, pray that cyclones do not hurt people or damage their properties
Posted by we are unique, Monday, 5 April 2010 1:03:02 AM
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Here’s a different take on the forest dieback.

And I know it’s not in keeping with current fashion where’s it’s chic to blame everything of AGW ( &, for that reason it will probably upset Qanda) -- but what the heck!

“A good example of adaptive cycles in comes from the spruce/fir forests that grow across large areas of North America…Among the forests’ many inhabitants is the spruce budworm…EVERY 40 TO 120 YEARS ,POPULATIONS OF SPRUCE BUDWORMS EXPLODE , KILLING UP TO 80 PERCENT OF THE SPRUCE FIRS …In a young forest, leaf/needle density is low, and though budworms are eating leaves and growing in numbers, their predicators (birds and other insects) are easily able to find them and keep them in check. As the forest matures and leaf density increase the budworms are harder to find and the predators’ search efficiency drops until it eventually passes as threshold where the budworm breaks free of predator control and an outbreak occurs…The managers in this system … become locked into using ever-increasing amounts of pesticides because the industry wouldn’t be able to cope with the shock of a massive pest outbreak. The industry had little resilience ,and yet the continued use of chemicals was only making the problems worse…”

From : Resilience Thinking by Brian Walker and David Salt [ a CSIRO publication!] pages 79-80.
Posted by Horus, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 6:22:06 AM
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Why am I not surprised that pots 'cherry pick' and take selective data out of context while at the same time calling the kettle black?

And that pesky CSIRO, most recently reviled for 'doctoring' data - how dare they publish something so outa the mainstream!

Oh to be sure, I can attest that Australia's burgeoning population numbers are 'very likely' due to global warming :)
Posted by qanda, Wednesday, 7 April 2010 4:49:40 PM
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