Ooops.... "That's why Christians ignore the origins of Easter and Christmas and insist on pretending that these age old festivals existed well before Jesus dropped by."

Perhaps that should really read "That's why Christians ignore the origins of Easter and Christmas and insist on IGNORING that these age old festivals existed well before Jesus dropped by".

Sorry.

Spot-on, TBC, more or less.

Sells,

You write: 'The problem with the attitude that only science is true is that by far the vast range of human experience is excluded from consideration.'

Edison tried two thousand ways to invent a filament for a light - all but one worked. Should our schools teach about that other 'vast range of human experience', the other 1,999 experiences ?

On the relativist notion that there are many truths, etc.:

* Was the Catholic Church's 'truth' that the sun (and all the planets) orbited around the earth, true from the third century (or whenever) until 1824, when they acknowledged Copernicus/Galileo's findings, whereupon the Sun and the planets ceased orbiting around the earth ?

* And was it true, as Galileo demonstrated, that, as from about 1542 (or whenever Copernicus claimed) the earth and all the planets began to orbit around the Sun ?

* Meanwhile, in Burma, the Earth is actually flat, resting on the back of six or eight elephants, who in turn stand on the back of a giant turtle - of course, when you step out of Burma, the earth ceases to be in that form.

Of course, there are many BELIEFS, not many knowledges, or many truths. And even scientists would agree that 'knowedge' is conditional on not being falsified, yet. However, there are many INTERPRETATIONS of reality, of knowledge, of truth. But when anyone throws their assertions or propositions (metaphysics) into the public ring for assessment (epistemology), they have to submit them to testability, and therefore to criticism; then they have to be prepared for ridicule, and even to have their most deeply-held beliefs challenged, and even overturned.

All humans deserve equal respect; all people are entitled to privately hold all manner of beliefs and opinions. But when they put those opinions up to be more generally accepted, or as knowledge or science, as testable (and falsifiable) propositions, then they risk their demolition. The arena of testable science is a bear-pit, a pitiless cauldron for the destruction of fondly-held prejudices

In this day and age the entire human world is now ruled by the point of view of scientific materialism.

Scientific materialism has deprived humankind of all profundity of view--relative to the nature and significance of the conditional universe, and relative to the Reality of the Divine.

Scientific materialism is a global cultural program or meme, which has so effectively supported the ego-s motive to achieve a perfectly independent state of "self-sufficiency" that, as a result, the human collective has brought itself to the point of global destruction and universal despair.

And of course conventional exoteric religion cannot counter this state of affairs.

Indeed this state of affairs is the inevitable historical outcome of christian-ISM itself as a would be world conquering, power and control seeking, meme.

Sells,

<<I agree with most of what is said in this article and was dismayed at the proposed mixing the empirical science of the West with traditional accounts as if they have the same epistemological basis.>>

Theological questions such as the existence of God cannot be separated from science no matter how hard “sophisticated” Christians like yourself want to claim that they are two different forms of knowledge.

If God exists, then God manifests in reality, and anything that manifests in reality is demonstrable, measurable and verifiable.

It's that simple.

Of course, there are many arguments from transcendence here that some use to get around this very basic fact that we can know with the day-to-day practical knowledge that we acquire, but let’s face it, if your God is a transcendent super-natural being, then we have no way of distinguishing between your God and something that doesn’t exist.

So-called “sophisticated” Christians like to claim that the Big Bang and evolution were the methods used by their God to create life and all that we see, but how then can one possibly know the difference?

<<Faith and reason must go hand in hand.>>

In fact, ‘faith’ is the very opposite of ‘reason’ because - in the context of religion - faith means to believe in something for no good reason, and if there is no good reason for believing in something, then the reasons can only be bad.

In Queensland the problem is wider than just a confusing of Science with Chritianity. In subject syllabi it is stated that 'all knowledge' is in some way culturally based. So even ideas that are inherent in nature itself are not to be seen as valid in all places and at all times. Examples are the exponential function and pi. That sort of baloney oozes from Boards of Study. The Science National Curriculum has all the signs of being made by a committee of Boards from across the nation. The Maths one looks as though there have been actual Mathematicians involved!

Excellent article. Good discussion. Thankyou everybody; it is nice to know that there still is intelligent life out there.

Children should be aware of our cultural heritage but should be free from any kind of indoctrination except for the minimum necessary to live as free citizens in a democratic society. They should be aware of the Aboriginal, Christian and other mythologies which have shaped our cultural heritage, but they should be taught these with an appreciation of the cultural context in which they arose and not as anything they must subscribe to. Scientific concepts should be introduced as early as possible.

When introduced in 1875, the Queensland Education Act guaranteed a free and secular education for every child. A controversial referendum in 1910 allowed ministers of religion to conduct religious instruction and bible lessons. Every incidence of the word secular was removed from the Act. During the succeeding 100 years this amendment has resulted in religion (particularly Christianity) being given a privileged position within our public education system. I want to see the dignity and worth of every child upheld regardless of race, ethnicity, religion or system of belief. The public education system should protect our children's right to freedom of or from religion!

Tuesday, April 13, 2010 from 8:30 AM to 10:30 AM there will be a
demonstration at the gates of Parliament House asking that our parliament restore secular education.

Speakers at the protest will include Dr Max Wallace, Director of The
Australian National Secular Association and Humanist Society of Queensland President, Maria Proctor.

For more information visit "Let's Get Secular Back in the QLD Education Act"
on You Tube

The protest favours inclusive school committees, a public education system
that is free, secular and welcome to all and seeks to end 100 years of
religious privilege in Queensland.