Now blairbar - I haven't recruited my partner as some sort of aid to my credibility in discussing this issue. On the other hand, both you and Loudmouth have both done so. If it's not relevant to your quixotic project, why did you mention it? Incidentally, is your wife aware of her involvement in your denial of the Stolen Generations as the issue applies to Torres Strait Island people?

As for Henry Reynolds and the late Koiki Mabo, I'm quite sure that both of them are and were aware of people from the Torres Strait who are members of the Stolen Generations.

At least Loudmouth is honest enough to reveal that at least part of his motivation for denial are other agendas associated with Aboriginal politics as they impacted on his late wife's career. What's yours, really?

Well, motivation for scepticism, CJ, not denial: actually, I'm amazed that there have not been similar cases to Bruce Trevorrow's elsewhere in Australia over the past one hundred years - where laws were actually broken and Aboriginal children taken into care illegally - one thinks, surely, in that sense there WOULD BE stolen chidren, surely. One would expect so, from some officious copper or bureaucrat. But so far, no cases. Perhaps when we get the details that have been requested of Mr Raynes, we will have more to go on. So, I'm not a denialist, but I AM a sceptic, and I hope I always will be, of every scam that is tried on in the future.

Cameron,

Another thing we forget in 2010 is that the school leaving age in the early twentieth century was twelve, then raised to fourteen (perhaps in the twenties?), then to fifteen in the sixties. My grand-dad went out to work at nine, in 1888. Those things happened. But you're surely not claiming that kids who had reached the school leaving age and who were sent out to work were 'stolen', are you ?!

Cheers,

Joe

denialist bluster ??
CJ Morgan, I am afraid I don't quite understand. Are you saying I am a denialist ? When on earth did I ever deny anything on OLO ? If I did can you please point it out ? No CJ M, I'm not at all standing in the way of reconciliation & for you to say so shows a crystal clear lack of integrity. I am daily striving for harmony in the community I reside in & I will do so as long as I can. I will not like you do, circumvent the unpleasant truth. BTW, don't forget to quote some of my denials ok ?

individual, the definition of denial for CJ is that anyone who disagrees with him, is a denialist, i.e. one who denies that CJ is correct is akin to someone denying the holocaust happenened.

We see it in other fora that he posts in, intolerence and bigotry.

Don't be offended .. its his normal state and he rarely has anything to offer apart from the venting of his spleen.

I must apologise, Cameron, it seems that you really are a Dr: I would be very interested in your thesis :) Did you expand it into book form ? And your book is not just eighty pages long, it covers 118 pages (@ $22.95, Wakefield Press), counting intro, references and index (I presume ?) 118 pages and it gets you a doctorate - where woudl that leave Windshuttle with his 600-page book, let alone his other books ?

I hope that Philosophy students are studying this thread, especially those studying Logic or Epistemology (esp. Political Epistemology ?). It provides a rich seam of fallacies, non-sequiturs and ad hominems especially; and shows clearly how people define 'knowing', what constitutes knowledge (especially 'gut feelings' and intuition, the flagships of Indigenous research methodology), who has the right to 'know' and therefore the right to 'speak' and therefore who have the obligation to 'believe' what they are told. The variety and sophistication of ad hominems on this thread (including some of my own) would provide all the material one would need for a dissertation that even Dr Raynes would give at least a conceded pass.

Actually, I half-believe that many Indigenous children must have been stolen, in the sense that they were taken into care illegally - surely, across six states and two territories, over a hundred years, there are more than one case (Bruce Trevorrow's) of bureaucratic abuse of obligations and breach of law ? Surely kids were being seized and taken off somewhere in Australia every year ? But gut feelings is one thing, evidence and proof is quite another, even though gut feelings are much more comforting.

So my constant question is: were there such cases ? Who, and how, and where ? Evidence, 'proof', details - if something exists or happened, there must be evidence of it. What is the evidence of a Stolen Generation ? (Of course, how many 'stolen' children does it take to make a 'Generation' ?) What is the evidence of cases of bureaucratic abuse ? Is Bruce Trevorrow's case the only one ?

Joe

"I hope that Philosophy students are studying this thread, especially those studying Logic or Epistemology (esp. Political Epistemology ?). It provides a rich seam of fallacies, non-sequiturs and ad hominems"

... and irony.