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The Forum > Article Comments > Mind the gap? > Comments

Mind the gap? : Comments

By Andrew Leigh, published 9/3/2010

Should we care about the earnings gap between city professionals and the men and women who clean their offices?

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Vanna,

I can see the appeal of disliking lawyers and real estate agents, but have you ever looked at what it takes to become a lawyer or read any of thousands of acts etc. that make up the law? Not fun let me tell you.
Have you considered what a hassle it would be to show a property you are selling every time some tyre kicker wants to see it when they're not even in the market, or when you finally get a contract, dealing with the lawyers etc.?

I'm no lawyer but have studied aspects of the law relating to my field, and let me tell you it ain't fun, and it's very hard to apply to a given situation without encyclopedic knowledge of all that has gone before.
I've had law lecturers who can recite letter and verse the act or previous judgement that relates to pretty much any scenario you throw at them. I'd want them on my side were I to be dropped in the proverbial.
As for the agents, I've bought/sold houses, and I grant you there are plenty of scumbags out there, but I have have also had excellent experiences where they made my life so much easier, and got me more money than I was expecting, which you would have to agree is worth the fee.

I guess I'm just saying things aren't so cut and dry.

Oh, and btw, I've worked in offices for many years, and in my experience most cleaners do a half arsed job by my standards, if they do anything at all.

Cuts both ways.
Posted by Rechts, Thursday, 11 March 2010 12:43:49 PM
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Rechts,

Being able to recite something didn't help the US much.

If as you say, real estate agents, solicitors, teachers etc are highly skilled people, then they should be able to clean their own offices. At $20 per hour, it adds up by the end of the week, and they can spend more on status symbols.
Posted by vanna, Thursday, 11 March 2010 1:31:47 PM
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Grim, it is true that the asymmetrical distribution of earnings means that average earnings are higher than median earnings, but the gap is smaller than you suggest. According to the ABS, in May 2008 median weekly earnings of full-time employees were $55,328, while average earnings were $64,345. For all employees (including part-timers) the median was $43,316 and the average was $49,811

http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/1E07D323FDE698C2CA2575D700188C43/$File/63060_aug%202008.pdf p.19

Since then earnings have risen by about 8%
Posted by Rhian, Thursday, 11 March 2010 4:16:42 PM
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Vanna you are full of crap.

A lot of people work very hard to develop a trade or a skill. Just because they don't make anything or grow anything doesn't mean they aren't doing something useful. Its actually you who is stuck in the od economy.
Posted by jjplug, Thursday, 11 March 2010 8:55:24 PM
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Rhian, the link you provided was to a survey of a selected range of industries, totalling 57,000 employees. Hardly a comprehensive study.
Isn't it interesting that Governments can -and do- give very precise figures for their 'average' wage, (the last one I saw was $57, 852) yet the median figure is so hard to find. Could it be because politicians can make the average wage higher, simply by giving themselves a pay rise? The median wage, of course, is unaffected by such a manoeuvre.
This site offers some interesting statistics:
http://www.abcdiamond.com/australia/australian-median-wage/
What is most interesting is the percentage rate quoted; the median was around 90% of the average a few decades ago, now it is down to 85%, reinforcing the article's point that the gap is widening.
Bruce, your elephant is not only not in the room, I wouldn't even put it on the front porch. The author never suggested the professionals should not be paid more than the cleaners; the question is by how much.
As one with fond memories of the 60's and 70's -affordable housing, one income families, disposable income- I believe the gap between the median and average CEO's then was about one to 30 ($10,000 to $300,000) whereas now it is more than one to 50 ($40,000 to 2mil+ average, up to 34 and 37 million).
Lucy, you make a good point, and in fact teachers are leaving the industry. In fact, more than one academic has bemoaned the fact that many of the best and brightest are ignoring the sciences and going into marketing and business studies.
What's good about that?
Which leads me to rehctub's rather startling comment: “Remember, we are all presented with that same opportunity.”
Really? All schools are the same, all parents are the same, all students have the same abilities and talents, and have the same opportunities to express and develop those talents?
Bull.
On a global note, out of 6.8 billion people on the planet, almost 3 billion live on less than $2.50 a day, while 250 people (or so) manage to survive on more than $3 billion.
Posted by Grim, Friday, 12 March 2010 6:13:14 AM
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Going back to my comment about the forced amalgamation of councils in Qld, it's a sad fact of life that the one's who most need to go on strike for better pay simply can't afford to do so. In fact, the lowest paid are reluctant to even take an hour off for a stop work meeting much less strike, so tightly governed are their budgets. As has been pointed out, it was the highest paid workers, (miners, painters and dockers, etc) who most commonly took industrial action, simply because they could afford to do so. Lower paid workers could use the wage levels of these workers to argue to the Wages and Arbitration Commission for comparative increases, -before the introduction of enterprise bargaining.
Strangely, while those on the high side of the gap managed to knock this mechanism on the head -for workers- it is just this mechanism they use themselves. Politicians justify their pay increases by comparing their jobs to those in the private sector, and CEO's justify their claims by pointing to each other.
No one compares their income to the median wage, for some reason.
I predict the greater size of council's will lead to higher wage claims by Mayors and councillors, leading to comparative wage claims by state and federal Rep's and Senators... If it hasn't already begun.
Posted by Grim, Friday, 12 March 2010 6:15:10 AM
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