The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Green Loans in limbo > Comments

Green Loans in limbo : Comments

By Aaron Nielsen, published 24/2/2010

You would think Peter Garrett would be trying to stem the tide of scandals unfolding from his portfolio.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All
A perceptive and revealing piece, by a person at the coalface. Like the pink batts scheme, this is another story of inefficiently-run climate change mitigation token schemes. All these programs were basically about spending a lot of money quickly, generating paid employment in what was expected to be a major jobkilling recession. Their environmental rationale was skin-deep, never thought through or even perhaps sincerely meant.

Like the clunky schools assembly hall program, which is foisting unwanted and in some cases educationally disruptive facilities on schools that did not need or ask for them.

What a tragic waste - when these big dollars had they been steered towards the design and construction of serious renewable energy and transmission infrastructure (as advocated in my book last year, 'Crunch Time') could be starting to make a real difference to CO2 emissions now, as well as generating real well-paid jobs. Meanwhile our private sector renewable energy sector stagnates, killed by the market-distorting over-generous roof solar cell promotion policies. Another Mickey-Mouse saga of good environmental policies killed by bad feel-good policies.

And what a policy mess this house energy audit story speaks of! No wonder climate change denialism is proliferating, for the Rudd government in almost every possible way is debasing the coinage of real climate policy action and giving climate change mitigation a bad name - a point well made by Aaron Nielsen in this important article.
Posted by tonykevin 1, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 10:48:16 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
'tis well summarised and concluded. Thanks Aaron.

One aspect not touched upon - the essence of the 'home sustainability assessment'. It claims to promote behavioral change, however the HSAs are trained on passive house design, then asked to measure sizes of windows and to count the number of alliances and the whole thing is wrapped-up in shiny promise of a now non-existent green loan. If you take away the wrapper - what's left?
In fact there is plenty of room for learning at the household - starting on how to read an electricity bill all the way to addressing a 'not yet too old' electric hot water service (i.e. installing a timer to make it work only during the off-peak, or retrofitting it with a solar panel).
Unfortunately most of the assessors do just the data collection, which is of no use to the householder.
Posted by Paul Povilas B, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 3:13:55 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Just before Christmas we installed one of the new-fangled heat pump electric hot water heaters to replace an older element type heater. This came with the promise of a $1200 rebate for which we are still waiting. I wonder what the experience of others is with the payment of the rebate for these devices. They are remarkably efficient, particularly if they run during the warmer daylight hours, but they are not connected to the now obsolete timer to facilitate this, so they may well run less efficiently at night time, if "she who must be obeyed" puts on a couple of loads of washing after she gets home in the evening and then bathes the kids.

Seems like the public servants who design all these schemes and the ministers reponsible need to get out into the burbs and have a look at the "real" world occasionally.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 6:57:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
VK3AUU, David,

You cannot blame the public servants or the ministers for you not doing your homework. It's a well known fact that heat pumps are not as efficient as solar heaters and that's why they attract a smaller rebate. Also people believe what shonky installers tell them about heat pumps, compared to solar hot water heaters, instead of doing their own research.

As a matter of fact if you installed an Evacuated tube SHWH I can guarantee you would almost never need the booster element on.
I had a conventional SHWH installed in my previous house, and now an Evacuated tube SHWH (made by Hills) in my current house and I never had any issues getting the rebate on time without any drama.

Sorry, but most of the time we are responsible for our own misfortunes.
Regarding the Green Loans, my wife and I as applicants are also very disappointed with the process, but can see that a lot of the problems are because of the companies and individuals, who conduct the assessment.
I have a rule that I am responsible for what I do, and if I can not fulfill a task that I am supposed to, due to lack of experience or knowledge, then I cannot blame anyone else but myself. Shifting the blame does not improve anything I'm afraid.

Stan
Posted by stan_nesta, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 10:53:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Stan,

When you remark that "shifting the blame does not improve anything", I presume you mean blaming others for your not fulfilling your own responsibilities. It works both ways, though: saying that the assessors are to blame for "a lot of the problems" of the GLP cheapens the problems for which assessors are /not/ responsible.

True, there are stories being told of dodgy training and rushed assessments. I've heard a few myself, and if I'd had one with both enough detail and a trustworthy source (rather than just one or the other), I might have relayed it in the article.

However, unless you have suffered such an assessment firsthand, you're virtually guaranteed to be dealing with processes outside the assessor's control. This is where the flaws of the GLP are at their worst: they suggest an endemic failure, as if the scheme were designed not to succeed. Now, that I can talk about.

On the topic of heat pumps, though, I agree with you completely.

Regards,

Aaron
Posted by aarongnielsen, Thursday, 25 February 2010 12:34:56 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
More on the topic of Green Loans - at the start of the program DEWHA also promised a $50 reward card to every assessed household, which never happened...
At least the schemes with rebates seem to work - Stan has received his Evacuated tube SHWH rebate, someone else got $200 for the mulch he put on the garden.

On the topic of Hot Water Service: quite a few people say that in their homes Evacuated tube SHWH does not need any boosting, however how they can be sure the water in the winter reaches 55C, which is necessary to prevent ‘development of harmful bacteria’?

David,
you might consider using your heat pump rebate to purchase an evacuated tube panel on eBay ($1500) and apply some DIY to couple it with your hot water pump, which would act as a storage tank and a booster for your new 'prize-yourself' &‘better than Stan’s’ solar HWS system. That is a least carbon footprint you can achieve with 55C hot water all year round, even if your roof is not 100% north oriented. If you are somewhere in Adelaide, I’m happy to volunteer and help with this DIY project.
To the 'one that must be obeyed' I'd suggest to keep bathing kids in the evening, but do the clothes washing in the morning with the sun, after everyone had his/hers showers with the remainders of hot water from last days sun/heat pump. Also the clothes will be happy drying on the line during the day, it's hard to expect them to dry over night. Of course this is assuming that your clothes washer is connected to a hot water pipe.

In my view HSA is about assisting households with ideas on how to improve energy efficiency in their house, not about carrots and sticks.
All the noise with 10K green loan, $50 reward card and the mix-up with the mandatory green start rating for all houses (pending) has attracted too many gold diggers (Training organisations and the likes of Fieldforce). Obviously DEWHA tried to play the role of a marketing department... unsuccessfully.
Posted by Paul Povilas B, Thursday, 25 February 2010 9:11:14 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Paul,

You are correct to a degree about the 55C temperature in HW tank, one does not know if it will reach it unless a temperature gauge is employed.

But one can oversize the solar array, in this case using more tubes, e.g. 30 instead of 22, which is the normal number for a 250L tank, plus set the collector's angle higher, that means optimize it for winter, the summer solar gain is more that ample to cater for the mismatch, especially in SA (in my case Barossa).

Even if the booster element is turned on in winter it will be a more cost effective solution than the heat pump, heat pumps do not use the J tariff, as you know they are fridges in reverse and turn on and off all the time, unlike the electric booster coming on only at preset time.

Anyway, in David's case your suggestion makes a lot of sense.

And to answer Aaron's remark, yes I did have such an assessment firsthand.

Regards

Stan
Posted by stan_nesta, Friday, 26 February 2010 11:56:04 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Thanks for what is a good article. My assessor did a good job when assessing our passive solar home but his most frequent comment was: the software doesn't recognise this or that innovation. For example, our top-loading washing machine recycles the first load - that's the water with all the washing powder in it. Because it's not a front loader, the software isn't able to record our recycling of water and washing powder from the top loader. Another example, our house is double brick and wall insulation is simply not possible, yet our assessment report recommended that we spend some of the Green Loan money we were entitled to borrow on wall insulation!
Overall, the ideas behind this scheme are OK but the bureaucracy that put it into effect imposed too many constraints or software limitations. If it was run by people who really understood energy and water efficiency and the practicalities of the problems people face, then it could have been so much better. Maybe it's not too late to ask ATA to run it.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Monday, 1 March 2010 5:49:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
DEWHA staff should have ALERTED PETER GARRET:
It is hard to believe that such a debacle has resulted from the headlong desire of the Federal ALP Government to tackle climate change in an exemplary manner before the world. But it is not surprising. That headlong thrust was not accompanied with adequate training, organisation and inspection processes. It is probable that the future of Government is in Federal unitarian local governments, and this would mean that the Federal will should or could be strengthened at the local level by officials of that Federal node.
In this case, DEWHA staff should have alerted Peter Garrett much more emphatically. But let us ask, 'was the pace of roll-out too fast for even DEWHA ground workers?"

DEWHA should GO FOR WOOL BATTS
DEWHA, under Peter Garrett and now with Greg Combe, should have gone for WOOL BATTS and should definitely do so now. They are the best for insulation; they are non-synthetic; they are non-conducting; and their use would give the wool industry a tremendous shot in the arm.

But it is important that the pace of installation be capped so that the race to get the rebate does not pressurize the industry beyond its capacity.

It is the suspicion of some here in the Katoomba electorate that the Aluminium industry is guilty of lobbying Peter Garrett or DEWHA so that this crude, old fashioned method of insulation is used to the detraction of wool batts. A local elector here says:
"If I pay for you to put in aluminium insulation, and it turns out to be faulty, am I to blame? NO! It is the manufacturer's fault.

However, I did point out that Peter Garrett, as then-the-full Minister of Environment, was sorely lacking if he did not get warnings from his department that installation was being buggered at the fundamental level of workmanship. -Bluey Quilty, MA(Australian History)
Advocate of Federal Unitarian government
ALP Branch member, Katoomba, NSW
Posted by SecedeFromTheStates, Tuesday, 2 March 2010 9:56:50 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Let's get back to "your" problem with the heat pumps. I actually did my homework. I could afford a heat pump, for which I had to outlay $2300, but I could not find the extra outlay for a solar system, even though the running costs are minimal and the rebate was greater. Incidentally, I am still waiting for the rebate.

Now let us get down to the operation of the heat pump. As installed, it is connected to the power continuously. That is because in an average household it does not have the capacity to supply enough hot water if the time is restricted. In my particular case, there are only two of us, we live in the country and have to provide our own water supply. We do not shower every day and we are frugal with our use of water generally. Our heat pump is therefore able to run for somewhat less than six hours a day, if it is run during daylight hours when the outside air temperature is warm. If it were to run during the night when the air temperature is much colder, not only would it run for much longer, the lower night rate tariff would not make up for the extra power consumed. If I turn the power on at 8.00 a.m., it generally turns itself off at around 2.00 p.m.

I believe that the next generation of heat pumps will be even more efficient, because the heating unit will be able to be installed in the ceiling, where the air temperature is much higher. Even so, our heat pump uses only about thirty percent of the power of an element type unit.

So there you go, don't knock the heat pump, and don't forget that there is also an environmental cost in actually manufacturing all your solar panels too.

David
Posted by VK3AUU, Tuesday, 2 March 2010 10:29:53 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy