Mikk

The allegorical interpretation of parts of the bible is not some recent development to gloss over the incompatibility of modern scientific knowledge and biblical narrative. It is a commonplace of religion and goes back to the very early days of the Church. Origen and Augustine of Hippo both wrote extensively of the allegorical treatment of scripture. Origen (3rd century) wrote of the Eden story:

“"… who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally.”

- On First Principles see http://books.google.com.au/books?id=lzUqcsvIPiUC&source=gbs_navlinks_s p.39

Unfortunately there is a shared interest between a fundamentalist minority of Christians and a fundamentalist minority of anti-Christians to insist that the mark of authentic Christianity is taking the Genesis stories literally. This is not true, and never was

"The allegorical interpretation of parts of the bible is not some recent development to gloss over the incompatibility of modern scientific knowledge and biblical narrative. It is a commonplace of religion and goes back to the very early days of the Church."

In other words, anything which is too manifestly ludicrous for even a hardened believer to swallow is deemed to be 'allegorical'; and the fact that no two sects can agree over what parts are meant to be realistic and what parts are allegorical is conveniently glossed over.

Can a scientist be a Christian? I have discussed this at length here:

http://atheistwiki.wikispaces.com/Can+a+scientist+be+a+Christian

and the answer is No. Science discovers facts about causes and effects; but if supernatural beings exist and affect the universe, then the whole idea of cause and effect is nonsense. For instance, a religious claim that objects fall to earth because undetectable angels pull them down is just as well-supported by evidence as the scientific theory that gravity causes it to happen; but one is testable, useful and forms a basis for further enquiry -- the other is simply a dead end.

Without scepticism, science simply becomes anyone's best guess at what God is trying to do; and since we have no evidence whatsoever, your guess is no better than mine or anyone else's.

Why does any of this matter - science is science and religion is religion.
If I want to know how a nuclear reactor works I don't read the Bible. If I want to understand God I don't ask a nuclear physicist (unless he also happens to be a priest).
When I am sick I appreciate prayers but go see a doctor.
When I feel the need for spiritual nourishment I go to Church.
What's the problem?
(Ok, I know its not quite this simple - but it needn't be much more complicated, surely?)

<<there is a shared interest between a fundamentalist minority of Christians and a fundamentalist minority of anti-Christians to insist that the mark of authentic Christianity is taking the Genesis stories literally. This is not true, and never was>>

You could have fooled me. I was taught all those stories as fact when I was a kid. I dont remember anyone saying they were not true and they were just "stories". What about the story of Jesus? Did he really come back from the dead after 3 days? If not the what the hell is all that crap that goes on at easter and christmas? Do religious schools tell their pupils that the bible is just a story? Do priests state that they are just reciting a "story" in their sermons?

Yikes. Talking about tilting at Windmills.

I have difficultly believing clergy of all people would think they could get Christians to agree on evolution. I doubt you could get all Christians in the world to agree on the meaning of any single passage in the Bible. And they want them to agree on evolution?

Once that is done, what is the next big project? Unite Christians and Muslims into one faith perhaps? It would put an end to most of the terrorism we see today. If you can pull the evolution thing off, surely it is worth a shot.

Mikk

What you were taught as a kid may not be the same as is taught to grownups, or indeed kids in other denominations. In my experience young children take bible stories at face value, but start to question the naive and literal as they move into their teens or early 20s. At this point some drift away from religion, but others enter a deeper and more mature faith that doesn’t rely on taking myths and miracles literally.

Yes, there are great variations in the things that Christians believe and the parts of the bible they take to be historical narrative compared to myth, story, allegory and all the other literary forms found in scripture. But I’d guess that only a tiny minority of Australians Christians believe the world was created in seven days or the first human was a mud-man called Adam. I don’t know any.

There is an awful lot more to what’s going on at Christmas and Easter than celebrating supernatural interruptions to the flow of human existence – which may be why many atheists participate readily in the celebrations, traditions and symbols even while denying the historicity of the events they commemorate.

No priest would say that the bible is “just” a story, because story is such a powerful and effective way of communicating some forms of truth. There was probably never a race between a tortoise and a hare, or a man called Robin Hood who stole from the rich and gave to the poor, or a Danish prince who agonised over suicidal thoughts. But we have a lot to learn about life and human nature from these myths and stories.

I have never heard a sermon preached which claimed, assumed, or implied that the events described in Genesis were historical or that Adam and Eve were real people. I have heard and read much profound preaching and theology that unpacks these allegories and focuses on the truths about the human condition and human uniqueness that this part of the bible sketches so concisely – our moral consciousness, foreknowledge of our own mortality, alienation, etc.