Proof of what, exactly, RobP?

>>What say ye, Pericles? Looks like daggett has indeed provided some proof.<<

It doesn't surprise me at all that some of the accounts of that day's events are a little incoherent. It must have been an immensely traumatic experience for all concerned.

"When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking," saidRodriguez, who was huddled together with at least 14 other people in the office... Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above," said Rodriguez. "Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion."

The assumption here seems to be that because the floor was shaking, the explosion must have come from below.

The guy was a hero. But even heroes can be mistaken, especially in such circumstances.

[Anthony Saltalamacchia]"The explosion came from -- I believe at first we believed that it came from the Mechanical Room. [Editor's note: The Mechanical Room was below them in a lower sub-basement .] Then we heard a series of other explosions that sounded up on the above levels of the building."

The confusion factor was high, obviously. "I believe at first we believed..." doesn't tell us what he later believed. And the "series of explosions" from above doesn't really match up with his colleague's "another explosion from way above."

It was a terrible experience. Using these poor people's - clearly incomplete and imperfect - narratives as evidence of a Bush/Cheney conspiracy to blow up their fellow citizens seems to me to be inordinately cruel.

Despicable, even.

Pericles, where has it been established that the testimony of all those who had reported explosions on September 2001, including William Rodriguez, Anthony Saltalamacchia, 118 members of the Fire Department of New Your City, a number of news reporters, etc., etc., etc. was all unreliable as you are attempting to imply it is?

Pericles,

I haven't got the time to go through the testimonies again to provide the quote, but one person was seen to have been subjected to a blast. Something about his skin hanging off him. That would seem to be something that's hard to fabricate.

Not taking sides here, but just asking some questions.

daggett,

Do you know if this person survived? If so, surely there was some test that could prove what material might have caused it.

RobP, You may be interested to know that Pericles has also dismissed the testimony of Dennis Tardio and Patrick Zoda in the video "9/11 NYC Firefighters Controlled Demolition" at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SXD3bAbZCow some of the dialogue of which I posted at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3330&page=11

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The people that Pericles has denounced as "inordinately cruel" and "despicable" would have to include William Rodriguez and Anthony Saltalamacchia themselves as well as people who lost family members and spouses on the day including the Jersey Girls (http://www.ae911truth.org/info/173) Ellen Mariani (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRBOUildaJE), Manny Baudillo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZc5oImGcjI), Bob Mcilvaine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErHfTQAvDnw).

I would suggest the fact that Pericles is prepared to describe these courageous people who were affected so tragically by 9/11 tells us a lot about the sort of person Pericles is.

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RobP wrote, "Not taking sides here, but just asking some questions."

Please just bear in mind that I didn't begin to seriously question the official account of 9/11 until some time in 2007, six years later than I should have. Before, I accepted what the US Government had said of 9/11 as true.

If you continue to study this issue with an open and critical mind it won't take you long to know that Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld et all have lied through their teeth about 9/11.

Then asking yourself why would they have lied and studying more of the evidence will get you very close to the truth.

And when you understand the truth, as I did, I think you will want to take sides.

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William Rodriguez's co-worker, whose face was disfigured by the blast was Filipe David. He is mentioned on the web page http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6625 (although I can't say if that was the best resource).

You just love inventing things for me to think, don't you daggett.

>>The people that Pericles has denounced as "inordinately cruel" and "despicable" would have to include William Rodriguez and Anthony Saltalamacchia themselves as well as people who lost family members and spouses on the day including the Jersey Girls<<

For your information - or "for the avoidance of doubt", as the lawyers say - I was denouncing people like you.

Who trade upon the suffering of these people, who went through horrors that simply can't be imagined in suburban Queensland, merely to satisfy their own sad fantasies.

Just in case you missed it, in your rush to find something pathetically self-gratifying to wibble on about, here is what I said.

"Using these poor people's - clearly incomplete and imperfect - narratives as evidence of a Bush/Cheney conspiracy to blow up their fellow citizens seems to me to be inordinately cruel."

That's you, daggett. Go to the mirror, and take a look, if you dare. If you actually see a reflection - which I'm beginning to doubt, by the way - that's who is trading upon the sufferings of others.

Incidentally, the same person who "heard the explosion under his feet" also made this statement:

"Also, The FBI never followed up on my claims or on the other part of my story when I told them before 9/11, I encountered one of the hijackers casing the north tower."

I wonder why.

Pericles, how is my own stance on 9/11 different from those I named, who lost loved ones and family members on 9/11?

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Pericles wrote, "For your information ... I was denouncing people like you [who] trade upon the suffering of these people, ..."

And using the "the suffering of these people" in order to justify wars to grab oil and gas from people falsely accused of having caused suffering of these people is not "trade[ing] upon the suffering of these people", not "inordinately cruel" and not "despicable"?

Perhaps it's time Pericles also had a look in the mirror just to to see if he is able to see his own reflection.

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Pericles continued sanctimoniously , "... who went through horrors that simply can't be imagined in suburban Queensland, ..."

No, I have to admit I have not experienced those horrors, nor the horror of death by cancer or chronic respiratory problems as a result of Condoleezza Rice telling me the WTC dust was safe to breathe, knowing that it was not (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3330&page=25).

I also haven't experienced the horrors of an invasion of my country by the United States. I am sure that that many who protested against the Vietnam War could also be accused of not having experienced the horror of napalm and phosphorous.

So, really all those pampered anti-Vietnam-war and anti-Iraq-war protestors should have stayed home in front of the telly or gone to the pub or beach instead, shouldn't they have, Pericles?

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Also, Pericles, I am still waiting for you to either confirm or deny that this (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10034&page=14) is what you intended to say, earlier:

1. That life cannot possibly imitate art and art cannot possibly imitate life

2. That for al Qaeda, a supposedly sworn enemy of the United States, to have obtained the control of the World Trade Center towers necessary to allow the demolition explosives to have been planted without detection would have been no more difficult than for people linked to the PNAC cabal in power in the White House to have obtained the necessary control.