Australia's national anthem says: "Australians all let us rejoice, for we are young and free".

But is this truly the case, particularly with recent restrictions placed on people by the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison?

From a Prime Minister and Doctors who feel they have the right to impose limits on numbers of people who can gather socially and as a result place their own personal and political values onto others.

Australia's national anthem also says "Beneath our radiant Southern Cross, we'll toil with hearts and hands, to make this Commonwealth of ours, renowned of all the lands".

Well how is this the case, when a Prime Minister feels he has the right to impose a value on where I walk, socialise and talk in public?

NathanJ,

grow up. I take it you were in agreement with those extinction rebellion fools who were putting restrictions on the lives of everyday people. Now we have a real issue you act like a baby throwing a tantrum.

Nathan,

Please feel free to ignore the advise.

Nathan,

Good stir but somewhat inappropriate at the moment.

NathanJ,
well, how certain can you be that not following the advise will keep your fellow citizens free from contamination by the likes with your mentality ?

What a winger! It appears you are selfish. If you become a carrier of covid19 and you fail to isolate, you could be guilty of murder by association.

The only problem with the national anthem and covid19, is the virus might make it possible that there is no one around to sing the national anthem.

God Save The Queen, and the rest of us in that case!

Nathan J

Can Donald Trump Scott Morrison?

Is the Pope a Catholic?

Do black swans fly Nathan?

And lastly, but by no means the least, can a Princess be turned into a black crow Nathan?

These are not simply rhetorical questions.

There is meaning and depth in those questions.

And if you look deeply into your misunderstandings, you will understand that to understand life with any depth of thinking, you need urgently, to do better than to scratch the surface in your exploration.

Dan

Nathan J,
You also need to seriously ask yourself "Where would I be without others?".
Being asked is not "being told" ! Being told only happens when asking is not sinking in & causes unnecessary problems.
Thinking unselfishly is the key to prevent problems !
Have you got what it takes to be a useful & valued member of our society ?

Thank you Nathan for this very important question, which demands a serious moral analysis.

There are no "civil liberties", only Liberties, period. If you freely elect to belong to a civilisation, then you have already sacrificed some or all of your freedoms. In other words, you cannot have the cake and eat it too, benefit from the pros of civilisation but avoid its cons.

The problem is that we were never given a real choice whether or not to belong to civilisation (or to a segment thereof).

Assuming that we were forced into this civilisation against our will, then no PM and no doctor may order us around and if they do so then they are just brutes, predators with no moral authority whatsoever.

However, while no civilisation may justifiably order outsiders around, nor attempt to "protect" those who never sought their protection, civilisations may still take the necessary steps to protect their own members.

So if you want to gather socially in large numbers at times like this, then this should be OK provided that your group agrees to:
1) not mingle with its surrounding civilisation, at least until the crisis is over; and
2) not receive any medical help from its surrounding civilisations.

Should your group be unwilling or unable to keep to its own, then its surrounding civilisation may at times like this be justified in shooting you in self defense.

The prime-minister or anyone else for that matter, are definitely wrong in their assumption as if everyone who happens to breath in this continent ever agreed to accept their authority. Now you in turn need to tell us whether or not you did, whether or not you preferred and chose their medical support over your freedom.

Yuyutsu

After reading and re-reading your post I've concluded your oversight of a little imagined outcome the Prime Minister can control: enforced curfews.
These are standard State rights trumping your personal rights.
Maybe I misunderstood your text.

Dan

Dear Yuyutsu,

You write; "If you freely elect to belong to a civilisation, then you have already sacrificed some or all of your freedoms."

Surely sacrificed some and gained others would be more apt.

Dear Dan,

Nathan was speaking of "civil liberties", so I explained to him that liberties (or freedoms) are not a civil thing. Now when you mention "state rights" and "personal rights", you are speaking of something altogether different. My response to SteeleRedux, below, should explain that:

Dear SteeleRedux,

«Surely sacrificed some and gained others would be more apt.»

If you freely elect to belong to a civilisation, then you sacrifice your freedom and in return receive other benefits, which could perhaps also include some rights.

But rights are not freedoms: freedoms are a-priori, God-given, natural, whereas rights are man-made and far more limited, thus any rational person who chooses to exchange freedoms for rights, must be doing so for the other benefits rather than for the rights.

You can view it this way: You have a $100 note, you purchase certain benefits (such as protection, healthcare, roads, etc.) for $99.25, and receive a 75c change of coins, representing your civil rights.

Yuyutsu,
Nice calculation but you forgot responsibility which is in the 75 Cents !

I echo the comments of Yuyutsu, I suppose the term civil liberties resonates with some people and that's why I used the term.

Freedom regardless is very important and I find it a shock, that one person, labelled as a Prime Minister can have a large impact on one's freedom to move, walk, gather and socialise.

http://indaily.com.au/news/2020/03/18/govt-limits-indoor-meetings-to-100-bans-overseas-travel/?fbclid=IwAR0QPznShpF2fbFDFpK5F1nhCQwn07x2Wmq7FThZLU6ppMWgBSg1WezHalQ

This article relating to flu deaths last year highlighted 298 people dying highlighting:

Source: Department of Health (federal)

LATEST AVAILABLE STATE-BY-STATE DATA**

SA - 19,964 cases, 82 deaths
NSW - about 43,000 cases, 70 deaths
VIC - 25,969 cases, 50 deaths
WA - 17,640 cases, 48 deaths
QLD - 23,947 cases, 38 deaths
ACT - 1595 cases, fewer than 5 deaths
NT - 1079 cases, 4 deaths
TAS - 1390 cases, 1 death

http://7news.com.au/news/health/flu-deaths-hit-300-as-season-passes-peak-c-209939

With that also in mind it must be realised that limiting movement or numbers of people who gather simply does not work. This recent decision is a political one, aiming to improve the image of the Government, but at the expense of freedom which is built within us all and should never be touched - including mine!

Hey NathanJ,

It doesn't matter what you think about COVID-19
There's no denting the crisis is helping to set dangerous precedents / promote global agendas.

Mandatory Vaccinations
Total Lockdown or Limited / Controlled Movement
Health Checks and Check Points
Cashless Society

- And you're all willing to sign off on it because it's in our nature to adapt to unforeseen and difficult situations in the interest of the greater good.

You would NEVER have agreed to this under any other circumstance, but NOW YOU CHAMPION IT.

These new government provisions will become order of the day.

What did someone earlier today tell me Millenials are calling COVID-19 now?
'Boomer Remover'.
Some people think this whole thing is to kill off old people that Millenials, Communists and Economists seem to think the world can't afford, or would be better off without.
Push it all through with a whole new authoritarian set of rules for coming generations.

What do I think?
I think it's ironic that the very people who've been complacent and aloof regarding the whole thing, those who've failed to prepare and think life will continue the same and that their lives will not in any way be affected;
- Are the very same people whinging and carrying on in disbelief that people are stripping the shopping centre shelves.

I think these people are delusional, cognitive dissonance maybe.
They assume they won't be affected and that everyone else should think like them.
But these are also the same people who won't self isolate, and think everyone else is overdoing it to stop the spread of the outbreak.

You don't have to worry as much if you're somewhat prepared.
Just pack up the pandemic pantry and the camping and fishing equipment and go bush.

Do you stay at home close to cities and anticipate an increased chance of getting it?
(Then the door to door mandatory vaccinations)
Or head out to the sticks and reduce the chance of getting it in the first place?

[Cont.]

What are you REALLY worried about anyway NathanJ
You going to miss out on a few weeks of Church and bible study?
- Though I'm not knocking your right to want to go under normal circumstances;
But I think some of you are so determined to follow your religious routines you'd risk harming yourselves and others.

If so, you'd be wrong to do so.
'Everybody has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't affect others in a negative and detrimental manner.'

I bet you'd still be willing to drag the kids along to Church or send them to youth group, and be disappointed and disapproving (peer pressure) when the older-aged church members are absent, right?

This post is the sort of garbage that the Prime Minister referred to as un-Australian and uniformed fear mongering of the sort expected from nutters on Twitter.

You know what I hate ttbn,

It's Christians 'willful ignorance'.
I say 'wilful' because they decided to be ignorant.

Coronavirus fears prompt criticism of The Scots College's decision to host rowing assembly with hundreds of students
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-18/the-scots-college-hosts-assembly-amid-coronavirus-fears/12064148

Obviously the principal who called the assembly is an arrogant fool, who put school pride and tradition ahead of students personal safety.
- But look at the Christian's parents response:

Quote>> A mother who was waiting to pick up her son from the assembly said the school had been cautious, and did not have a problem with the gathering.
"I'm not worried, life must go in some way you know," she said.
"It's in God's hands."<<

People who believe in a Christian god are ignorant.
They won't take any precautions, they will throw caution to the wind and say everything is "In God's Hands", and then, when it all goes to shite, they'll say it was "His WILL" removing themselves completely from any culpability for their OWN WILL; or their OWN DECISIONS in preventing the spread of the virus, and they'll put others in the community at risk in the process.

They won't even prepare "God will take care of us".
They don't give a crap, they don't have ethics and most of them are looking forward to dying anyway because they live only for the time in which they will meet 'The Lord'.

The Christian religion IS willful ignorance crossed with subservience.

It seems to me that what Christians do, is firstly fail due to a lack of ethics which is the thing that brings them to religion in the first instance.
From there, they think the religion and the bible somehow bestowed upon them morals and authority; but you can't have good morals if you don't firstly possess good ethics.
Why? Well the difference between morals and ethics is that 'ethics' is knowing the difference between right and wrong, and morals is how you act upon that knowledge.
So what they do is place religion and scripture (as their moral compass) into the empty space that was originally reserved for ethics.

Some good news, my son a bus driver for State Transit NSW, reports as of yesterday not one of his depots 400 drivers have tested positive to the VIRUS. That could change at any time. G'daughter said only 5 in her class at high school Brisbane yesterday.

Nathan J,
Your mentality is unfortunately on the rise as your desperation for self-preservation snowballs.
You are part of the group that is the cause of much unnecessary misery & mayhem !
I can just imagine how you would carry on if we treated you as you want to treat us !
Being a selfish whimpy little grub is not really a role model !

Armchair,

In view of your post above, you might be interested in the news that the Catholic Church in Victoria has cancelled all public Masses.

"ALL public masses in Catholic churches in Victoria have been halted due to the coronavirus.

Bishops from across the state on Wednesday night announced the move in a letter following the ban on indoor gatherings of more than 100.

The decision means Easter masses will not be held."
http://www.mandurahmail.com.au/story/6686282/no-easter-masses-at-catholic-churches-in-victoria/

Is Mise,
The Bishops are getting scared they might not have the continued protection of the Boss !
Will they have online collection methods now that the cash flow is ceasing ?

AC,

Sorry. I don’t see what your attitude to Christianity has to do with this ridiculous post.

individual,

You are far too polite. Nathan J is a very strange person who would suit Twitter much better than he suits OLO. Every time he pops up, expect something bizarre and totally unreal.

PROFITEERING! This morning the wife said "how about chicken for dinner tonight?" Okay, down to the local plaza early to pick up milk from Coles or Woolworths and chicken breast. Normally the 3 sellers of chicken breast are Coles, Woolworths and the small business butcher in the centre. Last week the small butcher outside of Woolies had CB at $9.99/kg, on special he has it at $8.99. This morning his price was $14.99/kg. When I asked why the steep increase in price, all I got was "That's the PRICE mate!". I also noticed all his other meat was well up on price, some cuts over 50% increase. A check on both Woolies and Coles showed them to be out of most meat, including chicken breast. The little butcher wants to remember people have long memories.

All is not lost, its Paul's world famous home made 'Fish Cakes' for dinner tonight.

With too much restriction or opposition to something leading to restriction, people may simply defy rules or limits set and will simply do what they consider appropriate. So:

If people can't go to a church this year, because their freedoms are limited, they will meet somewhere else. For many people, Easter is important;

If people are told they can't go to certain public institutions anymore they consider important, they may consider simply setting up their own;

If some can't go to ANZAC day ceremonies, which many Australian's are emotionally and physically attached to, they may group anyway and defy authorities.

Limiting ones freedom is not a positive move. If I was tell people here you can't go to a butcher's shop or the meat section in a supermarket, how many would tolerate that? They wouldn't. I have no concerns for myself being vegetarian. I don't visit butchers shops or meat sections, but I never just think of myself when it comes to freedoms.

Issy, the Catholic Church should introduce "social distancing" , yep...their priest should be made to keep more than 6" away from the backsides of alter boys. Just a thought, but they'll never do it.

If I was tell people here you can't go to a butcher's shop or the meat section in a supermarket,
Nathan J,
That's a new one to me. Where aren't people allowed to go shopping ?

Dear Individual,

«Being a selfish whimpy little grub is not really a role model !»

For today's bible-reading and reflection, I suggest Ecclesiastes 9:4, "even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!"

It is most admirable to sacrifice one's life for a just cause in the love of others: the most prominent examples are Jesus and Gandhi (who did not end up dying, but willingness is what counts).

Not so to sacrifice one's life for a stupid cause, what to say of evil causes even. To blindly follow the decrees of a state is one such cause - which both Jesus and Gandhi defied. The prominent example of the fool who wasted his life for this, is Socrates - who can be likened to the dead lion.

Let me give another example: Johny and his teen-friends were boating on the lake. Johny had an expensive shiny new laptop, so his friends urged him time and again: C'mon, you have no guts, you are not a man if you won't throw this laptop in the lake. Finally Johny conceded and threw his laptop in the water, then said: "Well then, do I have guts?". "Yes", they all replied, "you do have guts, but you have no character!".

Why am I speaking of death? Because the body, including even its brain, is a dead object and of no value without the spirit, which itself is of no value without the conscious free will that guides it. Anyone who does not exercise their conscious free will is, for all practical purposes, dead!

Yes, one always has the option to willingly be part of and cooperate with a state, especially if they consider the options and subsequently deem that state to be a morally good thing. HOWEVER, demanding the same from others, puts you on the side of wrong and evil. If you truly believe that sacrificing your life for the state of Australia is good, then why not try to convince Nathan, both rationally and by personal example, that this would also be the case in his own unique circumstances?

'Issy, the Catholic Church should introduce "social distancing" , yep...their priest should be made to keep more than 6" away from the backsides of alter boys. Just a thought, but they'll never do it.'

Well a Greens member talking about morals. Do they get them from the mardi gras or where?

Nathan,

Well, I would normally go to Mass on Easter Sunday and the other Holy Days and I'd go to one or other of the local ANZAC Day parades but this year I won't, nor will I be attending any substitute gatherings, of which there is, afaik, no intention of holding.

I will, however, be attending this months pistol shoot as we will be about 40 persons, well under 100 and there have been no virus cases in the New England area yet.

Paul,

"... to keep more than 6" away from the backsides of alter boys. Just a thought, but they'll never do it."

Were you an "alter" boy, probably, and you have remembrances of the 9" men.

Note for the metrically encumbered; " denotes inches (25.4 mm = 1 inch)

Despite the nutters talking the rubbish of Nathan et al, the sensible media is today hailing the "best performance ever" by Scott Morrison.

Whether or not we feel that we can believe anything a politician says these days, Peter Dutton has thrown more food for thought into the ring at a time of appalling behaviour in supermarkets by some Australians amid the China virus panic.

Dutton suggests that some of the individuals stripping supermarkets of essential items are linked to criminal enterprises. He believes that they are the ones "who have created this pattern of hoarding", and the AFP is preparing to crack down on them. People are encouraged to call Crime Stoppers if they have any suspicions.

well ttbn if there is any pollie that has stared down the lying liberal media, the foolish feminist like Phelps/Zali and the Aussie hating Greens vandal it has been Dutton. You can generally measure a man's character by how much the abc hate them. The fact that they tweet wanting his death just shows you that he is a man of character and strength. I am very thankful for him. Just think if Keneally was ever in charge of our borders.

runner,

In think Dutton is our sort of bloke; I think he is the only real Conservative in the party, apart perhaps, from Eric Abetz.

Nathan and all bed-wetting whingers should read the 'Spiked Online' article called 'In France, it's now crime to talk to your neighbour', available free of charge and currently at the top of then Catallaxy File line up. If they think we have had our 'rights' infringed, they need to thank their lucky stars that they aren't Frogs.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/18/in-france-its-now-a-crime-to-talk-to-your-neighbour/

Ecclesiastes 9:4, "even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!"
Yuyutsu,
My guess is when Ecclesiastes coined that proverb, brain-dead as in indoctrinated, wasn't in the vocabulary !
I say a mongrel dog is better than an indoctrinated pseudo intellectual !

I wouldn't call moron fests social anyway !

Just saw a News clip where a reporter asked POTUS Trump what he'll tell scared Americans if medical solutions aren't found soon. Trump simply told him that no-one knows which turn this will take & let's wait & see if new drugs will work. He said they may or may not work, nobody knows ! Trump also told the reporter that he should report, not sensationalise.
Instantly, the headline was Trump rants at reporter ??
Is that what happens here too ?

yep the regressive press the enemy of the people. We have seen that with the abc for a long time.

individual,

Yes. It's happening here. This post of Nathan's is a rant against the government, that is doing every that it can do. The entire China virus catastrophe has been politicised by small minded people, with the encouragement of the media, mainly the ABC and the 'Chanel 9' stable. On 'A Current Affair' Tracy Grimshaw is stirring the pot and inciting panic.

Armchair

Well you have moved from your Jewish conspiracy theories to Christophobic.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Your rant about morals and ethics was as confused and illogical as the gw fraud.

The China virus should show even the dumbest of the dumb globalist politicians who have stripped Australia of manufacturing, employment and self-reliance on vital goods that we must decouple from China. There would be some short term pain, but the return to full employment and self-sufficiency would be well worth it.

The China virus has exposed just how vulnerable Australia is to the disruption in supply of essential manufactured goods. We can still produce our own food, but that's about it. We've handed most other things over to China, which at any time, can withhold them from us.

Over the last thirty years, globalists have created the greatest centralisation of market and supply chains ever. They have created a system in which a single point of failure could disrupt the supply of manufactured goods.

Up to 80% of ingredients for vital medical supplies and drugs come from China. And, there has been a gradual seepage of all technology from Australia and the rest of the West to China. And all the while, the Chinese Communist Party is becoming more totalitarian and dangerous, with the ability to wreck our economy and security at the drop of a hat.

A Save the Children Fund promo just played on TV. It said 15,000 children die every day due to starvation & related illnesses !
COVID-19 still has some way to go to win the race !

Well look here, American auto manufacturers have offered to produce respirators to try and combat the shortfall in their country.

Great idea, I hope Australian auto manufacturers take notice and offer to do the same.

But wait....

Dear individual,

Are you for real? The reporter gave him a softball question that any president worth his salt would have grabbed with two hands. Instead this nasty, pussy grabbing, lowlife decided somehow it was an attack on him personally?
http://twitter.com/PodSaveAmerica/status/1241041962871881728

My God what a snowflake. That applies to both your president and you my friend. Amazing.

This is the reaction of Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, to Trump's bulldust. The despair these professionals must be feeling having to cajole a moronic president to cut out the crap must sap the very life forces from them.
http://twitter.com/Walldo/status/1241044023445524481

a softball question
SteeleRedux,

That was a vindictive question designed to cause controversy but 'ol Trumpy was smarter.
Btw. Where are the Left's catch-cries now re GW & Offshore detention ?
Haven't heard a single Green since COVID-19 rambling on about coal etc.
As a matter of fact, the Greens have been utterly stumm in the past month.

individual,

The Greens have gone quiet because the the China virus lockdown and restrictions have shown them what the world will look like with zero emissions and overpriced, unreliable energy.

When the China virus is dealt with - and it will be, but not by China - we have to do some rethinking

Can an economy be based on digging things up while debasing universities with dumbed-down courses for fee-paying visitors who barely speak English as the nation attempts to build a robust economy by carrying tourists’ bags and serving each other cups of artisan coffee?

Coffee shops, dog washers and nail bars.

The government needs to stick to its core duties and stop meddling in every aspect of private and social life. This (the China virus emergency) is the wake-up call the country had to have.

Apart from the odd spot of spying and agitating for the CCP, as well as getting residency via the back door and bringing in their families later on, Chinese students flock to Australia because of the low standards of Australian universities. Almost all of them pass because of soft marking. These students can't pass the entry requirements of other Western countries.

Dear individual,

What? How on earth was that question suppose to drive controversy?

Reporter's simple question: “What do you say to Americans who are scared?”

Trump: “I say, you’re a terrible reporter.”

At least Pence's reply later to a very similar question was a halfway normal response; "Don't be afraid be vigilant." My goodness what was so hard about that? What a complete and utter self serving moron your president is.

SteeleRedux,
It was the insidious nature of the question with the incriminating part not in the video.
You know the Leftist way of distorting to divide !

SteeleRedux,
My guess is that Trump is forewarned when such division-seeking reporters are in the mob & when he replies to questions such as this one he already has some history at hand about the journo so he can cut short his reply.
People who can think, don't have to rely on endless waffle to get the gist know when a question has an underlying mischievous tone & they answer accordingly !
This reporter knew exactly that his question would create turmoil if Trump let himself get dragged into an unwinnable slanging match with 20 journalists !
Well done Uncle Donny !

Nathan isn't the only person with a peculiar take on freedoms and liberty. Someone calling himself 'currency lad' had this to say about the closing of Bondi beach because halfwits couldn't keep 1.5 metres apart:

"NSW Police Minister David Elliott today shut down Bondi beach because many more than 500 people – mostly young – were gathered there. The arrogant Mr Elliott says he might shut down beaches elsewhere throughout the state if it suits him. Politicians and the ‘authorities’ are in a daily virtue auction where the more draconian the measures, the more in-charge they feel. About six people will perish on our roads this weekend. Should driving be banned? If not, why not? What would police have done today had those hundreds of beach-goers refused to move? Shoot them? From the peanut gallery comes the old question: if sacrificing some freedom will save lives, it’s worth it – isn’t it? No."

I say bullshite to 'currency lad' too.

who would honestly want to be PM at this time?

Dear individual,

You write; "This reporter knew exactly that his question would create turmoil if Trump let himself get dragged into an unwinnable slanging match with 20 journalists !"

Okay now you are just making stuff up. It's idiotic. Only the most butt hurt crybaby of a president would have reacted like that to such a question. Why you are trying to imply is that the press are ganging up on him so he gets to sulk.

Have things really reached such pathetic levels that you are having to torture the facts to such a degree just to make him look a little less childish than he so readily illustrates? God help America with such incompetent leadership.

Dear runner,

You asked; "who would honestly want to be PM at this time?"

Wrong question. It should be who would be on the front foot and well ahead of the game when such challenges arise? Rudd was one such politician and there have been others. Scomo most definitely is not. We really do deserve better. Our schools should have been closed weeks ago and far more extensive lockdowns put in place. We really did miss the boat and thousands are going to lose their lives. As an island state we had the opportunity to have a rel crack of getting on top of this like Taiwan did. Wrong leader for the time.

Dear Ttbn,

«we must decouple from China. There would be some short term pain, but the return to full employment and self-sufficiency would be well worth it.»

Hear, Hear!

«What would police have done today had those hundreds of beach-goers refused to move? Shoot them?»

Not necessary at this stage. Once things get even worse, the answer is to erect a fence around that beach so they cannot leave and infect others.

Meanwhile, one measure is clearly missing and must be announced: anyone who deliberately breaks the isolation/distancing orders should be listed and remain at the end of queue to receive medical care, including ICU, so that even if they be dying, anyone else with moderate symptoms, of any age, could take their hospital-bed without notice.

Denying people their freedom is problematic, but denying them privileges is straight-forward and called for.

Yuyutsu,

Yes. If people are as silly about their safety as the beachgoers and others who think they are immune to the virus and the need to take advice, they should be at the bottom of the list for treatment.

I hope that our so-called leaders don't go to water when it comes to backing away from China. Unfortunately, they are not to be trusted when the heat is off them.

'Rudd was one such politician and there have been others.'

Oh dear oh dear. How can anyone answer such ignorance.

Reading SteeleRedux's comments are the clearest indicator yet of everything that is wrong with the mentality in today's society ! Not only wrong but even more frightening !
The oncoming train in the tunnel scenario !
Is SteelRedux one of those defiant beachgoers ?

I watched Trumps Coronavirus media address.

What a completely pathetic government Trump runs.
They are all liars and incompetent and can't even respond to reasonable questions.
It' not a government, it's a bloody circus.

Trump's Coronavirus Task Force Clearly Has Just One Job, To Control The Narrative
http://youtu.be/bdbqGXC9XIc

Anyone noticed how Africa, South America & Russia don't get mentioned re COVID-19 ?

While China is trying to deny its responsibility for the China virus, Donald Trump continues to be the only Western leader with the courage - and the responsibility - to remind them that they did not do enough to contain it. They tried to cover it up.

Three Chinese scientists who first warned of the China virus were arrested and 'disappeared'. Now, China is coming out of the virus but the rest of the world is still in big trouble with more to come.

As always, the Chinese Communist Party has been dishonest and is now trying to rewrite history, including absurdly claiming that it is all the fault of the US army.

China is responsible, along with the WHO. Inept, reckless and dishonest. China should be treated like the pariah that it is

Dear individual,

I flagged to mhaze a little over a week ago that the US which was then 8th on the list of countries with infected citizens would hit 5th within a week.

They are now third.

That is the bloody train.

http://covid19info.live/

Why you are trying to imply is that the press are ganging up on him so he gets to sulk.

Because they are ganging up on him !

ttbn,

You have hit the nail right on the head. The Chinese are PARASITES.

They will eat anything that moves.

No one likes them as a people and they are well aware of it.

They will eat anything that moves.
Mr Opinion,
So would you if there were 1.2 Billion Australians ! Judging by the display of your mentality I can just imagine you stealing an intestinal worm off off a mortuary bench !

individual,

The China virus is in Africa and South America. None in Burma, Laos, both bordering China.

In Paris, you can buy only food, medicine and flowers. Flowers? Would they be for the top of coffins?

There are 1.4 billion Chinese, actually; and they are under the boot heel of 90,000 million members and officials of the Chinese Communist Party - a mere 6.5% of the population. That would not be tolerated in the West. It just goes to show how different Chinese people are from those in the West.

individual,

You really do need to get off the sauce!

The Prime Ministers recent announcement about non-essential travel is appalling. Who is to decide what is non-essential and what isn't? Many people I've spoken to are confused about what they are going to be able to do.

I've even had some political party leaders state whole states and territories should be isolated and cut off from others entering (except medical workers), why only these people?

One has to also take into consider the health implications of self isolation. Vitamin D requirements are very important for one's health, so people should be outside for at least 10 minutes per day, so any suggestion of non-essential travel, say walking in a park poses a danger to some. I know as I'm not very old (under 40) and I have Osteoporosis.

People should move freely. If all people are doing for example is shopping and cramming themselves into supermarkets, workplaces and schools, I don't see how this stops the spread of a virus. The better option is to in some ways encourage people to spread out, even if one was to go to central Australia for example and rest for a few weeks.

In terms of non-essential travel, I would also suggest that any use of Parliament House in Canberra is stopped immediately as many would consider that non-essential at present or as a principle but is the Prime Minister up to the challenge?

The answer to Nathan's question is easy. Note State of Emergency is in effect.
Such a decision as he presents will be decided by the Emergency Management
Committee or one of the expert organisations involved.
The police or other person querying the subjects travel etc will have
a radio or phone and will get instructions.

Nathan, you don’t have to walk in a park to get sunshine, you can stand outside your house, or on a patio, or a driveway etc for ten minutes. It’s easy to understand what is essential. Health workers, medical supplies, food, fuel. Power and water. And perhaps freight trucks.
Going to visit your sick granny is not essential. It may be very desirable, desperately wanted but not essential. We are all going to have to closely examine our priorities in this situation that is totally novel to all of us. My mother grew up in the Great Depression of the 30s and I was raised on stories of hardship and sacrifices made then.
These days, with all the IT we have, life will be so much easier because at least we can keep in touch with family via phone, FB, FaceTime etc.

"Many people I've spoken to are confused about what they are going to be able to do." (Nathan)

They would be even more confused after Nathan got to them, if he carried on with the same naive twaddle as he is here. Nobody is stopping anyone from going outside. You can walk or sit in the sun if you wish. You can see people; greet them, even have a conversation, from the prescribed distance. Even in the NSW regime, where the premier is considering closing all non-essential services, you will still be able to buy food, collect your prescriptions and receive deliveries.

Get a grip, man, before you drive yourself around the twist.

The China virus is in Africa and South America.
ttbn,
Yes, I looked up the COVID-19 World map. I suppose I should have been more clear with my statement. What I sort of meant was that these continents didn't appear to get mentioned in the News until very recently.
I find it incredulous that people are so disregarding & dismissive of the risk they pose to others.
Were we to have a National Service, this poor kind of mentality would surely dissipate par a handful of inevitable gits !
Like this bloke who told me last week "If I get that Virus, I'll spread it as much as I can".
Could just be withdrawal symptoms from no Footy last week !

Meanwhile, the Catholic Church in Sydney has this to say:

"Directions for the Archdiocese of Sydney
from 18 March 2020 until further notice

With respect to the Celebration of Mass and other Liturgies
Many people are already self-selecting to stay at home and attendance at many Masses will
predictably be under 100. But for the sake of caution during this time of pandemic and on the advice of the Bishops Conference, the following directions will be observed in the
Archdiocese of Sydney... "
http://www.sydneycatholic.org/casys/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Directions-for-the-Archdiocese-of-Sydney-COVID19-180320.pdf

Many people are confused about what they are able to do at present - particularly business owners. My relative owns a business and I'm involved in business also. They do not know how they are going to operate into the future or what certain sectors will be targeted next by the Prime Minister.

The list put out by the Prime Minister this evening has already hit some businesses, some that have announced they will have to close in the short term - like those in hospitality, as some simply cannot rely on take away as an operation.

Please note his list this evening did not include beaches! Why not?

In terms of getting out - including in places like parks, this is important for all. People are still able to be socially apart from others and for people like myself who need good levels of Vitamin D it is essential. I need to be able to improve my health at a younger age and I've been advised this is possible.

I live in a house surrounded by shade. So I need to get out for health reasons. Any restrictions on freedom do not take into considerations the needs of others. If I feel any circumstance is beyond going out for the benefit of others or myself, I am fully capable of making that decision for myself.

his list this evening did not include beaches! Why not?
Nathan J,
Because some people can think for themselves & don't require to be told every minute detail as these things go without saying !

"Confusion reigns as schools remain open but kids told to stay home" at:

http://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-australia-live-updates-nsw-vic-act-lockdown-school-closure-status/2deddcba-5b9e-483e-84e3-109a852989bc?ref=BP_RSS_ninenews_0_confusion-reigns-as-schools-remain-open-but-kids-told-to-stay-ho_230320

So I'm not the only person here and some of the double standards from the Prime Minister are huge! He's also not realising States and Territories can make their own decisions.

"Many people are confused ..... " because they are being bombarded by misinformation from self-appointed 'experts'. Listen to the chief medical officers; that's where the Prime Minister gets his information, and it has been spot on. People like Nathan are making fools of themselves thinking that they know better. Deliver us from ratbags in this time of crisis!.

Hey NathanJ,

"Confusion reigns as schools remain open but kids told to stay home"

The reason confusion reigns is because maybe some people are not aware of the PRIMARY reason schools have not been closed already.

The PRIMARY reason schools have not been closed already is this:
38% of nurses have children currently in school.
So if we shut down schools, then we lose 4 out of 10 nurses who have to go home to look after their kids.
Thats the PRIMARY reason WHY schools aren't closed because of the virus already.
Nothing at all to do with the danger imposed by COVID-19 to staff and students, or preventing it's spread.

It's a 'bigger picture' issue.
Hospitals need nurses working right now as a greater priority.

Knowing this, people are foolish to have not pulled their kids out of school a week ago already, no matter what the government advice was.

You think it is bad here; In the UK McDonalds is closing all its
restruants, all 1500 of them and sacking all employees, all 350,000 of them !

The Prime Minister last night announced more sectors that will need to close. I don't know that directly relates to health advice though. For example I can come close to a doctor at a GP clinic or I may come close to someone, somewhere else in terms of a business, but these sectors are not closing.

Also the Prime Minister had made reference to people running outside fitness classes, limiting to 10. People can exercise by themselves, so it is quite clear the Prime Minister is promoting money over healthcare.

The Prime Minister can't keep picking out sectors. I feel he needs to consider simply encouraging people to be generous to support others they know, to avoid bulk purchasing saying so genuinely and announcing financial assistance to people for at least 3-6 months, without having to apply for jobs that are simply not there.

The Prime Minister has also advised against larger family gatherings and people congregating in groups in public. I am I going to be prosecuted or told to move on by the police?

Will there be some industries that simply go underground?

With all of that, schools are being told to stay open. Parents should be responsible for the raising and educating of children they have created.

I encourage people to take in health advice and make their own judgement - but this includes people with many medical conditions and those people for example who may have the flu or another virus at present. These people should not be forgotten.

Hi NJ, that is clear the PM put making money as a priority over health last night. When asked why a couple getting married could only have five in attendence, themselves, two witnesses and the celebrant, yet a 'boot camp' operator could have 10, I presume 11 including the operator. According to ScumO', the boot camp operator was given largesse, because they were in business.

BTW, how many of those boot camp operators are strictly cash. When I was in Sydney, the wife of a local gym operator ran such a thing, in a local park, most likely without a council permit. Our neighbours son used to go to that particular gym, he was a member, he also went sometimes to the park workout, $10 cash a morning so he said.

Come on some of you blokes are dragging your knuckles on this, the PM takes advise from the Health professionals. The nursing and medical staff attending COVID-19 patients at the moment are doing double shifts so just obey the rules and isolate. I was shopping in Coles this morning and police were at the door only letting in limited shoppers and insisting we observe the 1.5 m ruling, and use hand wipes on hands and trolleys. If you are sick ring your Dr. first with your symptoms, do not attend the surgery. If your activity is outdoor you are at less risk providing you are not handling equipment without disinfecting it.

Dear Josephus,

The tone of your last post, and I will only comment about this tone rather than about the content, is aggressive, unfriendly, humiliating, and the last thing that could convince anyone to follow the "rules" in question - unless of course you hold a gun to their head.

---

Dear Nathan,

«He's also not realising States and Territories can make their own decisions.»

It has been long that I have called for independence of the states within the continent of Australia: perhaps there is light at the end of this dark tunnel!

Overall, good things await us at the other end: some say this will be the end of globalisation with increased self-sufficiency at all levels: Australia, its states, local groups and individual homes. There is hope that things will become simpler again, bureaucracy and regulations cut down, especially when we no longer have to abide by international standards and dictates. On the downside, I am afraid that the physical isolation will accelerate the dependence on computers, digital devices and the internet. Let's hope for the best.

I'm starting to get some people say to me as the Prime Minister announces more restrictions on freedom of movement and particularly certain sectors being forced to shut, "where do you draw the line?" and I agree.

As one other person has put on this site as part of their discussion topic: "A kindergarten teacher friend told me at the time that if you don't keep the kids busy they will quickly degenerate into fighting."

Some people have seen others fighting over toilet paper on social media. I think that proves the above point. All people are children - and it is important to keep people mentally stimulated as a result. Sending out messages about keeping people locked up, to stay closed and stuck at home away from mentally stimulating activity, the environment and clean air is not the way forward!

If we had a small land mass as Taiwan we could manage people by taking their temperature and sanitizing at every step of their movement. They have not put everyone into isolation and not closed down businesses.

PM put making money as a priority over health last night.
Paul1405,
What's the alternative when Health depends so much on it ? Doctors aren't exactly cheap neither are equipment, medical staff ! And, you do want medical help when you need it don't you ?
May I suggest to gather some integrity & refrain from opportunistic political side swiping !

Indy, in this time of crises, there is a danger in simply unquestioned bending to authority. What is critical is to maintain our right to question, to criticise, to disagree. In the particular example it was one group "boot camp" operators being allowed ten in attendance (now reduced to two) and a wedding only allowed the wedding party a group of five, and no one else. When questioned on this, ScumO' simply related that inconsistency to the profit of a business operator, putting profit before lives, which in itself should be unacceptable. How do you see it?

The 'Ruby Princess', questioning shows a cover up by the NSW Health Minister Brad Hazzard, a monumental stuff up, he and the LNP government has been trying to deflect criticism for the past week, seven dead and hundreds infected, right at this moment, for which Hazzard is ultimately responsible. Hazzard as the minister in charge should resign his position forthwith! You might not agree.

"Indy, in this time of crises, there is a danger in simply unquestioned bending to authority. What is critical is to maintain our right to question, to criticise, to disagree."

I support Paul1405 100% on this.
We have a right and an obligation to question, criticise and disagree.
It's essential, because if we don't the result is that democracy and government policies fail us, and we all pay more in the long run.

- Always Question Everything -

- Always Question Everything -
Armchair Critic,
Yes, that's why a always question the mentality of some posters !

in simply unquestioned bending to authority.
Paul1405,
This is a time of severe crisis. To instantly criticise attempts thought up at extremely short notice without benefit of hindsight to remedy the crisis & steering as straight as a Die to political manipulation, makes the criticiser no better than those he criticises.
I put it to you, what is the next step that you think the authorities should take in the COVID-19 crisis without attracting criticism ?

Indy, the 'Ruby Princess' is now subject to a police investigation to establish if charges of criminal negligence should be laid. Seems you would simply sweep it under the carpet in a blind panic and be done with it.

These are extraordinary times, requiring rapid decision making on the part of our political leadership. Decisions that at other times would be unacceptable. That is not to say, because times are extraordinary we should simply give that leadership carte blanche to do as they please without scrutiny and with no possible ramifications. Without questioning we could end up in the Hungarian position.

Paul1405,
Wrong as per your usual. I would not sweep it under the carpet, I would try to remedy the stuff-ups asap. I would not waste many more millions to find a scape Goat.
I suggest we continue with self isolation for at least another two months. After that, I would not allow mass spectator sporting events for another 6 months. I would not give permanent welfare recipients any more than what they received thus far. I would compensate wage earners for loss of income until they return to work & I would reduce Public Service salaries above $120,000 by 10 % & those above $200,000 by 15 % for every Dollar earned.
I would establish a Non-Military National Service focussing on emergency work & general community work at the basic minimum wage with accommodation & food supplied for the unemployed single people. Ideally, a Flat tax for wage earners to start with.
All these would ensure economic recovery with far lsee pain than the present system. We must change the system, it's as simple as that.

I'm still waiting for what you would like to see done about the present situation so that no-one can come back & criticise like you're always doing !
Criticising with hindsight is something only the lower ranked academic types do.

Have a comment on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cwXifDaCjE

"I (individual) would not sweep it under the carpet, I would try to remedy the stuff-ups asap. I would not waste many more millions to find a scape Goat."

The stuff up was unforgivable with the resultant loss of life, related to the 'Ruby Princess' now standing at 11, with hundreds who were let into the community testing positive for the virus. Like trying to hide an elephant in a strawberry patch, the NSW government has moved the 'Ruby Princess' to Port Kembla, where hundreds on board (crew) are now sick. The Illawarra region does not have the medical facilities to handle such an influx. Trying to protect their arses Gladys and Brad believe out of sight, out of mind. Well no, like the elephant in the strawberry patch you can't hide a 100,000 tonne ship in a harbour. You ask about scapegoats, the LNP government would like to pin it on the ships captain.

You ask; "I'm still waiting for what you would like to see done about the present situation so that no-one can come back & criticise like you're always doing!" BTW you are always banging on with criticism of others in society. Pot calling the kettle black I would say. I certainly would not put some army of unemployed in the field to spread the virus as you advocate.

What do you want? Blind obedience! When there is a problem like this we should all have something to say.

"Criticising with hindsight is something only the lower ranked academic types do."

Do they really Indy, so you say. As soon as I heard that 2700 people had walked off the 'Ruby Princess' I posted my concerns about such a stuff up on this very forum, nothing to do with hindsight Indy.

Paul1405,
Your quip-rant aside, how about telling us your idea of sorting this out ? Or, do you think dragging up what can't be undone will somehow solve this crisis ?
Just for once, suggest a solution !
Yes the RUBY PRINCESS was huge mistake so, why didn't the hindsight experts jump in & prevent the passengers from leaving the arrival area ?
Can we rally blame ALL the deaths of those 70+ year olds on that virus ? I recall many old people succumbing to the Flu in the past ?
Yes, COVID-19 is the worst we've seen in our lifetime but let's not turn it into a compensation bandwagon !

There has been suspicion on the Ruby Princess arriving at 2am.
Some implied they arrived then instead of the usual 8am so they could
sneak the passengers ashore.
Passengers made comment they had never been on a cruise ship that had
gone at such a high speed on that part of the voyage.
I think perhaps it was because they had arranged ambulances to meet the
ship in Sydney and wanted to get those passengers to hospital.

Although Indy would like it all swept under the carpet to protect the arses of a few LNP politicians, the 'Ruby Princess' wont go away, deaths and sickness all over the place. Gladys, Scott and Brad must wish the 'Ruby Princess' was a submarine and not a 100,000 ton cruse liner, then they could hide it on the bottom of Sydney Harbour and not in Port Kembla.

Bazz, there is a strong suspicion when the 'Ruby Princess' left Sydney that passengers soon after started to report "flu like symptoms". The ship cut the cruse short, making haste to return to Sydney. The operators Carnival Cruses did not want another costly incident as they had suffered in Japan with the Ruby Princess's, sister ship 'Diamond Princess'. Forced to notify Australian authorities of the conditions on board, but wishing to disembark the 2700 passengers ASAP to save any possible quarantine costs, strings were pulled with NSW Health and Boarder Security to get the passengers off post haste. Then they become a problem for Australia, bugger the rest of us. Now who was trying to put profits before Australian lives, Hazzard and Berejiklian have tried to down play the whole incident and deflect responsibility onto the ships captain. I smell a rat! All I can say it should be GOODBYE BRAD!

Hey Paul1405,
"Do they really Indy, so you say. As soon as I heard that 2700 people had walked off the 'Ruby Princess' I posted my concerns about such a stuff up on this very forum, nothing to do with hindsight Indy."

I'm unsure whether I actually oppose 2700 people coming off the 'Ruby Princess'.
What I definitely oppose is that they weren't quarantined properly to prevent spread of the virus after they walked off the boat.

I don't know whether or not Keeping them all on on-board the ship is a better idea than letting them off, provided there's somewhere to house and quarantine them.

Should the simple easy answer that we should just leave all these passengers (many of which are retirees or in their 70's) on the ships instead?
I'm not sure leaving them there is an acceptable answer.
Simple and easy, yes, but whether it's the right one, not sure.

My 'Socialist Base Level Employment Scheme' is in some ways similar to the ideas surrounding individuals 'National Service' idea.
Part of my idea would've seen removable dwellings assembled on factory production lines and delivered on site.
With my idea, and maybe with a little ramping up (and some temp fencing panels and use of local sports fields we might've had all the removable dwellings we needed to easily deal with these quarantines / self isolation's.

Hey Paul1405,

You want to know what angers me about the whole saga?

I saw Gladys trying to defend her actions, trying to give some mealy-mouthed bs excuse whilst passing the buck at the same time:
"I was just relying on the advice I was given".

I think its all total bs.
The buck stops at her doorstep.
Don't make excuses for your own governments incompetence;
She's adding insult to injury.

She's the one who has been given the responsibility to manage the affairs of the state of NSW.
It IS her fault, It's her job to know.
You see too much of this bureaucratical blame game and I don't like it.

- Weak Incompetent Low-Grade Governance -

Hey AC, I think we are very much in agreement on this. And to show I'm not simply having a shot at the NSW LNP government. I believe some of the actions of the Palaszczuk Labor government up here in Queensland have been somewhat tardy as well, the boarder business was badly handled. I believe the actions of the LNP governments in both Tasmania and South Australia have been very good, along with Labor in Victoria and Western Australia. Even ScumO' after a slow Trump like start has managed to get up to speed as well, but I'm only giving him a C+ at best.

From the start, as soon as I heard about the mass uncontrolled disembarking, I pinged cruse ships as 100,000 ton floating petri dishes for this virus. A large number of people, passengers and crew, confined for a long period of time, in close contact with each other. With the 'Diamond Princess' episode in Japan you would think governments everywhere would be doubly cautious when it comes to these possible floating disasters. Its not like its a ten times a day event, the disembarking of passengers from such ships. As a basic precaution both Minister and Premier should have demanded to be fully informed as to such an event about to happen, and be the ones after a full briefing make the final decision concerning disembarkation.

The basic error that some testing was carried out, then without waiting for the results 2700 passengers were let flood down the gangplank. Does that in itself seem odd to you. The undue hast in returning to Sydney early, another odd occurrence I would say. None of this adds up, and it has cost lives. I watched the interview with the husband of that poor lady from the ship who died in Orange Hospital. The man had no political agenda, he was just overwhelmed with what had happened, and how it had happened.