the common good..GROWING BY SHARING..THE COMMON WEAL*
[community wealth self management/acting locally/personally

http://www.dw.de/who-owns-the-world-growing-by-sharing/a-17630124

lets give it a go?
sharing..IS THAT WISE?

what is a commons BUT A LOCAL LEVEL OF GOVERNANCE

Why is the concept of common property so popular today?
And does it offer a solution to future conflicts over resources?

Common property derives from the cooperative efforts of its owners, at their own initiative. Throughout history, people have worked together to manage natural resources including water, forest land and fishing grounds – to preserve them for future generations.

A good example of this concept can be found in the mountain pastures of Switzerland. The idea of common property has become more popular recently in several sectors of society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom#Research

SOME/MORE..re OSTRAM..[the only femaIl NOBEL PRIZE WINING WOMAN]

Her later, and more famous, work focused on how humans interact with ecosystems to maintain long-term sustainable resource yields. Common pool resources include many forests, fisheries, oil fields, grazing lands, and irrigation systems. She conducted her field studies on the management of pasture by locals in Africa and irrigation systems management in villages of western Nepal (e.g. Dang).

Her work has considered how societies have developed diverse institutional arrangements for managing natural resources and avoiding ecosystem collapse in many cases, even though some arrangements have failed to prevent resource exhaustion. Her work emphasized the multifaceted nature of human–ecosystem interaction and argues against any singular "panacea" for individual social-ecological system problems.

Design principles for Common Pool Resource (CPR) institutions[edit]

Ostrom identified eight "design principles" of stable local common pool resource management:[19]

1. Clearly defined boundaries (effective exclusion of external un-entitled parties);
2. Rules regarding the appropriation and provision of common resources that are adapted to local conditions;
3. Collective-choice arrangements that allow most resource appropriators to participate in the decision-making process;
4. Effective monitoring by monitors who are part of or accountable to the appropriators;
5. A scale of graduated sanctions for resource appropriators who violate community rules;
6. Mechanisms of conflict resolution that are cheap and of easy access;
7. Self-determination of the community recognized by higher-level authorities; and
8. In the case of larger common-pool resources, organization in the form of multiple layers of nested enterprises, with small local CPRs at the base level.

‘morning OUG,

Sharing is only relevant in the context of some having more than others, which is, has and always will be the case. This leaves us as humans with two responses.

The first is altruism, I have more therefore I will give to those who have less.

The second is envy, you have more therefore you should give me some of yours.

It would be nice if those who have more offered some of it to others. It would also be nice if those who had less were not driven by envy. Sadly the nature of being human means that we are all driven by self interest, except for those who insist they are not.

Ever since the basic units of societies began to emerge millennia ago, those societies have sought to “correct” human behavior with rules. There are some 34,000 registered religions with hundreds of thousands of rules. Added to these are legal, social, economic, business, civic, political and ecological rules, they must easily run into the millions.

The vast sum total of all these rules has made no difference to human behavior, we are still human. One of the saddest indictments of these failures, are proposals to take moral/value/ideological tenets, graft them forcibly onto other rules and make an entirely new species of rules!

Such proposals recognize the futility of trying to “correct” human behavior whilst also being guilty of taking our species even further into our sickness.

Perhaps the real scourge on our societies are those who seek to steer us from behind the high moral ramparts?

Any set of rules is going to be exploited, one under god. That's because we are human beings with instincts that include self-preservation, protection of loved ones and a desire for control over our environment.

Take your Nobel prizewinner's suggestion #1, as an example.

"1. Clearly defined boundaries (effective exclusion of external un-entitled parties)"

Think about that one for a moment.

Look back over history, and try to identify one example where this has been regarded as completely satisfactory, at a national level, by those concerned. Think of the history of Europe, with special reference to, say the Balkans. Or to the history of the Middle East, where Britain and France drew some "clearly defined boundaries" a hundred years ago. Even Australia, which has some pretty easily defined boundaries, is still riven by discontent over i) its relationship with Aboriginals and ii) its relationship with more recent arrivals.

It's impressive to be the first female to win a Nobel Prize in Economics. But her suggestions reek of the closeted academic, and can only possibly be applicable in a tight, isolated community. Even then, should these rules successfully create economic disparity with a neighbouring village, the social applecart may still be upended through friction, or even war.

Abbott thinks he owns the world. He was the one trying a coalition of carbon deniers together, Obama had to streighten him out.

Now we have no 2 IC here keeping his eye on things.

So i would say America has the biggest share of this world, because when America says something they expect to be heard.

Well put Pericles,

Current research shows that there are a number of factors that are conditioning human reactions to anything and everything.

1. I.Q. this is our genetically inherited raw intelligence capacity
2. Personality type (the nine personality types as defined in enneagrams – Helen Palmer – self knowledge or spiritual I.Q)
3. Our Desires for Fame, Love, Affluence and Power (Goethe)
4. Emotional I.Q. (the four stages of emotional development)
5. Attitudes, Values and Beliefs (AVB’s) (Social I.Q, adopted or mandated by societies/politics/religions)

It is the seemingly endless permutations of these factors that produce what we have come to understand as the human “individualism” of the current 7 billion humans on our planet.

Humans have created millions of rules to accommodate these variables but incredibly we now fight over the very rules we have created!

Without rules humanity would have to depend upon all humans to always do the “right thing”, to be moral and not react “offensively”. Whilst the answer of removing the rules in order that humans can’t break them certainly fits the problem, it is not an effective solution unless we can find a replacement.

You might say; “if there are no rules or codes, our societies would collapse under the weight of anarchy and terror” to which I would reply “but we have rules and we do break them, as a consequence some of our societies are already facing collapse under the weight of anarchy and terror”

The hypothesis of a moral society being that if humans can internally extinguish their nasty bits, negative reactions and self interest, we could possibly move to a state where we are all capable of connecting, empathising and positively reacting with other members of the human race. Such a “benign” human state would then form the basis for global equity and justice.

This must evolve and cannot be forced by more rules.

Almost half of the world’s wealth is now owned by just one percent of the population.

The wealth of the one percent richest people in the world amounts to $110 trillion. That’s 65 times the total wealth of the bottom half of the world’s population.

The bottom half of the world’s population owns the same as the richest 85 people in the world.

Seven out of ten people live in countries where economic inequality has increased in the last 30 years.

The richest one percent increased their share of income in 24 out of 26 countries for which we have data between 1980 and 2012.

In the US, the wealthiest one percent captured 95 percent of post-financial crisis growth since 2009, while the bottom 90 percent became poorer

Careful there 579, your envy is not just showing but screaming at the top of it's voice.

Common property does not apply. Why? Because God owns the world. He has sole ownership. We are just mere occupiers of His property.

pericules..clear boundries..IN THIS CASE MEANs claiming the right to use say the commONS/for grazing or food gathering[or like iragatiON ways/things like salt harvesting/or even where/the comMUNITYpicks oLIVES/or mushrooms..OR..BIRDS NESTS..

the point iS/THE WORLD CANT BE 'OWNED.'..we can only puts ITS USES TO BEST USE/like im iN SUBERBIA/YET 'THE BUSh'.is one street away..i walked today..and found two dead fish/native FISH..point being they wernt in the water...SOME KIDS CAUGHT THESE FISH[OR WHATEVER].

THAT LED ME TO PAy attention/im noting council is big/on draining every waTer way..AND EVEN WALKING WITH..no intention/i noted..THIS SWAMP DRAINING THING..3 more times

thet dIG A TRENCH/THROUGH THE MEDIUM MAKING A DAM/
run some slotted pipe/or pVC PIPES..And drained MANY A PUDDLE
THING IS THESE USED TO SUPPORT FROGS FISH NMMERRON IBUS WRENS/TURLES snakes[its like their trying to convert our high ground swamps into PAPER BARK DESERTS.

COUNCIL IS SPENDING BIG MONEY[CLAIMS A SHORTAGE/YET A BRANDNEW HUGE BULLDOZER..is pulling up trees[supposedly planted 29 years ago on top oF A SEWER-LINE,,that backs on to the swamp[TREE PLANTING TOmORROW]/NO DOUDT SOME MORE PAper barks..and some cLUMPING GRASS

FREE SANGERS..8.30/TO\10;30
I wwonder how much grant money that spent
SEE THE DRained swamps now getting TREE PLANTINGS
WE HAVE MASSES OF DRYLAND PARKS/ know draining swamps is the begining of the next phase of development/and the deloper got the road widend/CURBED CHANNELED FOR THEM.

i dont trust councils
its time the people reclaimed their commons
[or PEOPLE JUST STARTED WALKING THROUGH THE BUSH...SAW THE FIRST KOALA FOR YEARS[TRAPPED BETWEEN/two fences/WHEN WE HAD THAT FEDERAL FENCING SCEME/she got in/she can climb out...too much fuel load/time to get firewood collecters in.?

‘morning 579,

If there was ever a candidate for evolution we know where to look.

On the other hand we would not wish to upset the balance of nature. Natural selection seems to have done you a great injustice.

OWNING/ANYTHING.IS ABOUT CONTROL..who controls\your reality/OWNS YOU.

Many of..the character.., props,/and ideas in the novel/WIZARD/OF\OZ were drawn..from Baum's LIFE/experiences...As a child,/Baum frequently had nightmares..of a scarecrow pursuing him..across a field. ..Moments before..the scarecrow's."ragged\hay fingers"..nearly gripped his neck,.it would fall apart..before..his eyes.

Decades later..as an adult,..Baum\integrated..his tormentor into the novel\as the Scarecrow.//According to\..his son Harry,/the Tin Woodman was born..from Baum's attraction to window displays...[Because he wished/to make something..captivating for the window displays,[he used an eclectic assortment..of scraps to craft a striking figure...From a wash-boiler/body/bolted stovepipes...he made arms and legs,..and..from\the bottom..of a saucepan...he made a face...Baum then/placed../a funnel hat..on the figure,..which ultimately\became/the Tin Woodman.

John D. Rockefeller...was/the nemesis..of Baum's father,[an oil baron who..declined/to purchase Standard Oil shares..in exchange for selling his own oil refinery.;[..Baum scholar Evan I. Schwartz/posited.that Rockefeller..inspired..one of the Wizard of Oz's/numerous faces...]

In one scene..the Wizard is seen-as..a "tyrannical,hairless head"...].When Rockefeller..was 54 years old,..the medical condition alopecia/caused him to lose/.\every strand of hair/on..his head, ..making people fearful/of..speaking\to him.[26]

In the early 1880s,..when Baum'splay Matches..was being performed,/a "flicker'/;[..from a kerosene lantern/sparked the rafters".. causing the Baum opera house/to be consumed by flames...[Scholar Evan I. Schwartz posited/that..this may have\inspired the Scarecrow's severest terror:..utterance;.."There is..only one thing in the world I am afraid of. A.. lighted match."

In 1890,/while Baum lived in Aberdeen..which was experiencing a drought,..he wrote a witty story/in his.."Our Landlady"..column in Aberdeen's The Saturday Pioneer./The story..was about a farmer who put-on..green goggles..to his horses,..causing them to believe that the wood-chips they were eating..were pieces of grass.

Similarly,./the Wizard/made..the people/in the Emerald City wear green goggles..so that they would believetheir city was built from emeralds...Baum,..a former salesman of china,/wrote in chapter 20 about china...that had sprung to life?

Baum/had..a sheltered\lonely/upbringing...As a child,/he was extremely bashful..and was diagnosed\with a deficient heart.[2][3] Baum spent considerable time/playing with\his imaginary friends..and reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz

http://ctb.ku.edu/en/table-of-contents/advocacy/respond-to-counterattacks/respond-to-opposition/main

WHERE IT all began
http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/3819/pg3819.txt
in/the olden-days..if you excreted/or\even urinated/in water\you were banished/then along come some ghosts..and say/your a savage..[if you dont poop in the water closet.

when..we are\all equal/we dont need..cops/courts revenuers
and jailers..you either\fit-in/or get cast out/..next please

Dear Johan (OUG),

Interesting topic.

There are several books that go to great
lengths on the subject - worth Googling
the web.

I like this answer to the question -
"Who Owns the World?

Answer:

The citizens thereof.

But we must claim it or there will be no one
and nothing to claim.

i guess thats the point/lexie\too many already are/staking their claim
and no one is stopping them

power water roads ports aIRPORTs/BRIDGES SEWERS/PARKS
THERE ARE those claiming water minerals flora fauna.rocks dirt its an endless supply of loot out there..[they actually bribed/this generation of natives/to give 99 year leases on their rights.]

its too huge/to fix globaly/its too complicatedat to many levels/with too many exploiters exploiting/that id rather ignore what they do/do as i do/so saying..[lol]

alex jones..[at the 5 minute mark]..
http://www.infowars.com/first-look-prometheus-ii-paradise/

explains how science has dead ended
evolution..it seems now cant have happend..as the books tell us..[as dan de man/said much better at the religion thread]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16418&page=28

the point being/thE system now needs admit they decieved
or were misled..or that alians done it/and as alex explains/it gets wierd/and the movie planed is setting up tHE PLAY..

I HATE MOVIES.. but there yo go/the masses see our leaders have feet of clay...anyhow,,bac to my notes
. History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries. (pp. 36-37)

* Since reasoning, or inference, the principal subject of logic, is an operation which usually takes place by means of words, and in complicated cases can take place in no other way: those who have not a thorough insight into both the signification and purpose of words, will be under chances, amounting almost to certainty, of reasoning or inferring incorrectly.

* It might be plausibly maintained, that in almost every one of the leading controversies, past or present, in social philosophy, both sides were in the right in what they affirmed, though wrong in what they denied.
:
* It is a piece of idle sentimentality that truth, merely as truth, has any inherent power denied to error, of prevailing against the dungeon and the stake.

Men are not more zealous for truth than they often are for error, and a sufficient application of legal or even of social penalties will generally succeed in stopping the propagation of either.

The real advantage which truth has, consists in this, that when an opinion is true, it may be extinguished once, twice, or many times, but in the course of ages there will generally be found persons to rediscover it,..when from favourable circumstances it escapes persecution until it has made such head as to withstand all subsequent attempts to suppress it.

* If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. (p. 23)

* The dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution, is one of those pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes.

History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries. (pp. 36-37)

* The usefulness of an opinion is itself matter of opinion.

* The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.

If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. (p. 24)



* To refuse a hearing to an opinion, because they are sure that it is false, is to assume that their certainty is the same thing as absolute certainty.

All silencing of discussion is an assumption of infallibility. Its condemnation may be allowed to rest on this common argument, not the worse for being common. (p. 24)

* How can great minds be produced in a country where the test of a great mind is agreeing in the opinions of small minds?

A System of Logic: Ratiocinative and Inductive: Being a Connected View of the Principles of Evidence and the Methods of Scientific Investigation

* Whatever is known to us by consciousness, is known beyond possibility of question. What one sees or feels, whether bodily or mentally, one cannot but be sure that one sees or feels.

No science is required for the purpose of establishing such truths; no rules of art can render our knowledge of them more certain than it is in itself. There is no logic for this portion of our knowledge.
http://www.m-hikari.com/mccartin-2.pdf

* [W]e may fancy that we see or feel what we in reality infer... A truth, or supposed truth, which is really the result of a very rapid inference, may seem to be apprehended intuitively.
http://www.spiritwritings.com/GatewayOfUnderstanding.pdf
It has long been agreed by thinkers of the most opposite schools, that this mistake is actually made in so familiar an instance as that of the eyesight.

There is nothing...of which we appear to ourselves to be more directly conscious,..than the distance..of an object..FAR/from OUR/PRIOR/EXPERIENCE...Yet it has long been/ascertained,..that what is perceived..by the eye,..is at most nothing more/than a variously coloured surface;..that when we fancy we see

=,.all we really ''see..is certain variations...of apparent size, and degrees of faintness of colour;..and..that our estimate of SCALE/the object's distance.from us is the result o/f a comparison..(made with so much rapidity..that we are unconscious of making it)..between the size and colour..QUALITY/of the object..as they appear/at the time, and..the size/RELATIONSHIP/ASSOCIATIONS/EXPECTATIONS,,and colour of the same..[or of similar]..objects as they appeared/when..RECOCNISED/close at hand,..AS was known by other evidence.

The perception of distance..by the eye,..which seems so like intuition,..is thus, in reality,..an inference grounded on experience;

an inference,//which we learn to make;[BIAS/judge/cognise..TO selfADVANTAGE]...so rapidly a..s to appear exactly on a par with those perceptions/of sight which are really intuitive,..emotive response/to..the thin//

[our perceptions/of shape/form\fun-tion/colour]...shades/of\hades..grades/graduations/refractions/interferance/scatter/hue/vibrancy..all states of mind/..not..OF THE EYE..nor..the brain.

http://ctb.ku.edu/en/table-of-contents/advocacy/respond-to-counterattacks/respond-to-opposition/main

all govts lie
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/28/uk-urged-by-human-rights-groups-to-tell-all-on-u-s-rendition-flights-to-diego-garcia/

So if the American military and intelligence personnel understand this, why do they still indulge in this barbaric behaviour?!?

Because they can hurt people, and get away with it with impunity, which has to be one gigantic "rush" for those very psychologically maimed individuals who enjoy it.
Hypermilitarized police departments
are more dangerous than whatever they fight
http://patriotrising.com/2014/06/28/hypermilitarized-police-departments-dangerous-whatever-fight/

Historians looking back at this period in America’s development will consider it to be profoundly odd that at the exact moment when violent crime hit a 50-year low, the nation’s police departments began to gear up as if the country were expecting invasion — and, on occasion, to behave as if one were underway.

get to hospital/or we shoot ya old man\..move it..NOW*
[bang bang..your dead.]..police policing policy
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/police-shoot-95-year-old-wwii-vet-death-refusing-go-hospital

here/jim..JUST WAIT TILL THEY GO OUT
then have a wee look arround/and dont drop that stuff[wink/wik]
the police state really doth stink
wink wink nudge nudge they even own the judge/fudge fudgeu
http://www.blacklistednews.com/%E2%80%98Sneak_%26_peek%E2%80%99_warrants_allow_police_to_secretly_enter_homes_without_notice/36247/0/38/38/Y/M.html

AND NEXT..the alian god as creator
but/if they made life here/who made their life ;'there'
=the same impossability...ok alians made us/who made them..huh?[get it?]

THEY LIED ABOUT EVERYTHING
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/enron-2-0-wall-street-wants-manipulate-state-energy-markets-just-like-manipulates-every-market.html
http://investmentwatchblog.com/why-the-world-is-preparing-for-a-reset/
MADE IT UP A THEY WENT/now got to many thugs/needing to pay the rent[keep your moneY UNSPENT.]

BUT WAIT/THERES MORE
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/90000-foreigners-targeted-for-spying/
no not that..

HOW dare you feed the poor/there is the door
http://www.orrazz.com/2014/06/73-year-old-veteran-loses-his-job-for.html

3000 a day
http://investmentwatchblog.com/detroit-shuts-water-off-on-3000-houses-per-week/
more jail-bail/PRIVATE PRIson evenue raiing/mate.

our computer/says//you paid too much\\go to jail..huh?
http://www.newsforage.com/2014/06/father-who-overpaid-his-child-support.html

we will only fund good terrorists
http://www.orrazz.com/2014/06/obama-wants-500m-to-fund-good-jihadists.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/in-photos-israeli-bulldozers-raze-bedouin-community-leave-children-without-water-in-high-temperatures/5388842
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-secret-psychology-experiment-on-users-emotions.html
]but see that little number/hiding the ever/sO\sliGHTLY-bigger number
http://www.intellihub.com/obama-requests-nearly-60b-continue-endless-war/

http://patriotrising.com/2014/06/28/hypermilitarized-police-departments-dangerous-whatever-fight/
boycott that multinational chain/for sure.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/570302124/fear-not-the-path-of-truth-a-fallujah-veterans-doc

It's fascinating to see how people argue over a topic.

I went back to re-read Marx and Engels' 'Socialism, Utopian and Scientific' recently, in order to see how they elaborated on their own notion of Socialism. The work concentrated 95 % of its space on demolishing the various alternative Utopian Socialist theories but spent almost no time similarly examining Marx and Engels' own theory - as if, by demolishing the theories of ones adversaries, one has automatically, magically, promoted one's own. Which the pamphlet/book didn't do at all.

So, 579, we can attack capitalism all we like, yes, it's a very inequitable, vicious system - but that still doesn't speak to topics such as this, that in John Lennon's Utopian words, we should all be 'sharing all the world'. How to ever do that ? Is it a Utopian pipe-dream ?

Socialism, in the Marxist sense, now has many hundreds of years of combined experience of supposedly common ownership of the means of production - seventy in the YSSR, nearly seventy in China, forty in Vietnam, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Albania, Yugoslavia, Romania, Hungary, Poland, the Baltic countries, more than fifty in Cuba, etc.

And what happened in each and every one ? The 'leaners', to use Menzies' phrase, quickly joined the Party, moved up into dominant positions, and implemented Mafia-Marxism for all they were worth. In other words, they turned 'common property' into their own fiefdoms. The logical 'progression' of that process is North Korea.

So let's face it, neither capitalism nor common ownership provides the answer. Each one ends in some form of dictatorship, of money in one system, raw power in others.

Here's an interesting fact: in those socialist counties, the first leader who had NOT been schooled in pre-revolutionary times was Gorbachev, in 1985. In China, the current leadership and the one before, i.e. not in the first fifty years. In Cuba, not yet. In Vietnam, maybe not yet. In all the Eastern European countries, barely any from 1945 to 1989: perhaps Milosevic was the first.

[TBC]

Joe

[continued]

579,

So what then ? Democratic systems with both capital and bureaucracy reined in, systems which would always need eternal vigilance and hard work, minimising leaners and maximising lifters*. But always with eyes wide open.

Any suggestions ?

Joe

* Please forgive these references to Menzies. I hate to suggest it, but he got it right.

the/Great War’s =>>..terrible aftermath—–a century of drift toward statism,*militarism =/nationalism..merchantilism to bail-in..and fiat money—

all/of-that was..actually triggered..by the/events..at Sarajevo.

Unfortunately,..modern historiography wants to keep the Great War sequestered..in a four-year span of archival curiosities..about battles,..mustard gas//bird-flue trench-rot/mustardgass and monuments to the fallen...But the opposite historiography..is more nearly the truth....The assassins at Sarajevo triggered the very warp and woof of the hundred years which followed.

The Great War..was self-evidently..an epochal calamity,..especially for the 20 million...tourtured..combatants and civilians who perished for,,no reason..that is discernible..in any fair reading of history, or even unfair one.

Yet the far greater calamity..is that Europe’s senseless fratricide of 1914-1918.gave birth to all the great evils of the 20th century— the Great Depression, ..totalitarian genocides,.Keynesian economics, permanent warfare states,..rampaging central banks...privatization/ demonetization/capitalisation..and the exceptionalist-rooted follies of the..global/secular-imperialism..of personalit...

Indeed,..in Old Testament fashion,..one begat the next and the next and still the next. This chain of calamity originated in the Great War’s destruction of sound money,..that is,..in the post-war demise of the pound sterling..which previously had not experienced a peacetime change..surviving/even guy fAULKS Attempts to end the tally long sticks/credit/[debt-owed/holding into dedit stick/money\by burning/the prrof of debt/the sticks shortness.

POUNDS/gold content..LASTED..for nearly two hundred years.
Not unreasonably,..the world’s financial system.had become anchored on the London money markets ..where the other currencies traded at fixed exchange rates..to the rock steady pound*sterling—which, in turn,..meant that prices and wages throughout..Europe were expressed in common money..and tended toward transparency and equilibrium.

This liberal international economic order—that is, honest money, relatively free trade,..rising international capital flows and rapidly growing global economic integration—-resulted in a 40-year span between 1870 and 1914 of rising living standards,..stable prices,..*massive capital investment..and prolific technological progress that was never equaled—either before or since.

During intervals of war,.of course,..19th century governments had usually suspended gold convertibility..and open trade in the heat of combat...*But when the cannons fell silent,..they had also endured the trauma of post-war depression ..*until wartime debts .[20/YEAR-WAR-BONDS]had been liquidated[IMMEDIATE/PAYMENT[IN GOLD]..DEMANDED]
-<<

and inflationary currency expedients..had been wrung out..of the circulation...[COIN/'LEGAL-TENDER/SHORTAGE/NO MEANS;OF EXCHANGE]..
..This was called..“resumption”..and restoring convertibility at the *PEACE TIME PARITIES*..was the great challenge..of post-war *normalizations.

The Great War, however, involved a scale of total industrial mobilization and financial mayhem that was unlike any that had gone before. In the case of Great Britain, for example, its national debt increased 14-fold, its price level doubled, its capital stock was depleted, most off-shore investments were liquidated and universal wartime conscription left it with a massive overhang of human and financial liabilities.

Yet England was the least devastated. In France, the price level inflated by 300 percent, its extensive Russian investments were confiscated by the Bolsheviks and its debts in New York and London catapulted to more than 100 percent of GDP.

Among the defeated powers, currencies emerged nearly worthless with the German mark at five cents on the pre-war dollar, while wartime debts—especially after the Carthaginian peace of Versailles—–soared to crushing, unrepayable heights.

In short, the bow-wave of debt, currency inflation and financial disorder from the Great War was so immense and unprecedented that the classical project of post-war liquidation and “resumption” of convertibility was destined to fail. In fact, the 1920s were a grinding, sometimes inspired but eventually failed struggle to resume the international gold standard, fixed parities, open world trade and unrestricted international capital flows.

Only in the final demise of these efforts after 1929 did the Great Depression, which had been lurking all along in the post-war shadows, come bounding onto the stage of history

Read more at http://investmentwatchblog.com/sarajevo-is-the-fulcrum-of-modern-history-the-great-war-and-its-terrible-aftermath/#pKY5q2l3tOGhGh7c.99

Yes, OUG, capitalism is pretty crap. But history has not been kind to the notion of 'sharing all the world' either. The degeneration of socialist theory into practice saw to that.

So what then ? Somehow a more equitable form of democratic capitalism ? Straight capitalism doesn't look like ever moving in that direction. And it has been far too easy for revolutionary or War-socialism, by whatever name, to slip into straight corporatism or - dare I say it ? - fascism. Notice how writers and social philosophers around 1920, like G. B. Shaw and Titmuss and Lu Hsun and Georges Sorel, could praise both fascism and bolshevism equally. No, they wweren't hopelessly confused: maybe their equation of the two wasn't so far off either.

And after all, to risk a charge of Godwinism, Hitler called his party the German National Socialist Workers' Party. Socialist. Workers'. But it was obviously still a fascist party.

How to stop 'socialism' sliding into a form of Party-corporatism under another name ? i.e. into fascism ? Yes, also how to stop capitalism sliding into obscene inequity ?

What might be a genuine third way ?

Joe

THE THIRD WAY..will be as its done/in heaven
and]..heaven[and hell woork on the theory/your here and your welcome

clearly bankers issuing money/simply on a promise to repay/has failed hugely\govt simply has become too good at extorting custom/from us as if a bear in a cage/and their bleeding off the bile.

they are afraid\of us/for what they know they done
but..most people..couldnt give a stuff/so govt need simply suport those/needing support/teach them.licence/..them train \/teach and promote them[our true wealth.is a informed people.

were being controlled..bY SMALL MINDS//we need change/so that mates rates is..everybodies due/if you got\the talent/or te skill/your the govt product/they take your skills..to the world..Marketing them/not what govt/can do..for big money.

we arnt..got a capital..ProblemJUS/NO-QUALIFIED/BORROWRRS../its those charging intrest/on mo/ey our borrowing*created/who created the debt/to repay intrest/was govt/but bankersstole everything.stole our super/our public -services/our systems/commerce IS EVERYWHERE

i suggest./a new social contract/govt takes tax from your transaction
and thats it[3 percent=..the easiest fix iS..get people spending[by re setting..the face values/of our coin/bring back one cent coins/but they become one pound[two dollars/2 cent-4 dollars[one pound]
and 5 CENT=5 BUCKS..TEN CENT-20 BUCKS..50 CENT=1`00 DOLLARS.1DOLLAR COIN -200..AND A TWO HUNDRED/COIN FROM THE 2 DOLLAR

NOTES..STAY AT FACE
ALL OF A SUDDEN/WERE]SPENDING/its called\job creation
people..will iNevitably..be saving..their pennies/and others sending
just like the roaring twenties..only we take back the pEOPLES ASSETS..[AND GOVT...ONLY SPENDS..ON ITS PEOPLE/by skill\need

govt insures us as citizenry/so we..dont need private/insurance scams
heath systems/not sickness systems..govt run localy/in school size districts/self administrated..and self funded bY/COIN ISSUE..FROM FEDERAL GOVT.

it begins/with govt borrowing to the max/in paper
ten converting the paper to coin/then revaluing the face values

[issuing a token sample...of each/to everyone/so we all get a stamp.collecters/type coin pack/then..the reface of all*..the queens coins...in the whole common wealth[via schols/fund schools/to teach/repair/record restore..trial test etc..everything govt should be doing/the kids..are doing..as their projects

the kids vote.on what goes..[KNOand dont go on..on the school district/they rule FOR/US..WING IT NOT..[guided/by teachers/that facilitate-dreams/prepare kids.to life involved in their society[im for taking this commerce/thing..from govt
/we been paying..too much for water..power banking etc
now they..need give back..

Hi OUG,

Thanks for demonstrating my point, that to slag 100%, one line of thought, doesn't make any alternative line of thought, 100% correct. As Marx and Engels also inadvertently demonstrated, as above.

So given that capitalism, pure and simple, is not perfect, and that socialism degenerates into fascism, what then ?

As a life-long socialist, born and bred, living, eating and breathing it for seventy years, I really would like to know before I kick the bucket :)

Joe

joe/its pretty much all written/in books
they want to have lords maters peerages/title honours..gods in carnate/if you will.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=give+bible+leader+over+10's+1000's&

pretty much explains how i see the future
we are our brothers keeper/but can tep into/or out oF ANY BINDING TIES TO DEAD STATE INSTUMENTS/BODES AND LEGAL FICTIONS/in short..totaly free/unbound/unti we hurt someone/and need a bothers keeper

WE OF COURSE CAN BEG FOR IT[CURRENTLY THEY DO IT BY DECIETE[FORCING US TO SWEAR TRUE/INFO THEY ALNE CAN VALIDATE[for egsample..i cant get govt assistance/cause i cant get a birth cerificate/because govt canvcelled by id /and i need the id to get the required cretificaTE

AND THEN I NEED SWEAR ITS TRUE
BUT WE SWEAR WE ARE DEAD/thats how govt can make licence active/etc[ie defacto/life]..gvt controls only the paper persona/NOT THE PHYSICAl me.

anyhow/we nee take responsability/do it our selves/or have it done for us..[apparebntly/even though its the same folks doing the doing anyhow..[87 aussies own more?..than..the lowest 13 million/or who have tricked the owning/by 13 million?]

thus http://www.google.com.au/search?q=giveBIBLE+OVER+10'S+1000'S&

either/heaven
or/hell..BUT HOW TO TELL?
by the fruits/inflation/yet wage/income..stagflation
in other words/they stole our money behinf real infkation[ie true inflation is over 10 oercent/but been taken from the measure

who gets bail-in/who got bailed out
who lost intrest/while everything doubled/except;low waged

http://www.truechristianity.com/prophecy/

we either chose ourself/or have others chose/for us
if we beg the beggar gets as the one begged deems to give.

look joe/the writing is on the walls for the lib/nats
their money streams/to big money.cant keep flowing
unions will keep funding the alp/we need both influence things gone

party loyalty =treason..to politicization's and public servant

we should put all nminees into schools test their skills and see what their life skills excLUDE OR LIMIT THE USE OF THEIR SKILLS FOR

currently lawyers write/judge/make the laws
its a closed loop/see article/1.point 8 chapter 5 in the vault under the 3 rd step[its all really majic..THE INCANTATIONS OFTEN RUN 5000 PAGES/but were all bound under their spell

ts all in the politic speak/person;means the prsonum reated under the act
the licence/the title/the rank/status\standing,,author*ity.

a/curse of post limitations
dan/quote*,'Who are those losing their faith? There are those who are trying to hold onto a vast age evolutionary account in one side of their brain, and reconcile that with a straight forward Biblical account in the other side.>>

one cannot seve/two masters
if you cat explain/your theory/its best you relate/whichever fable/they ascribe/TO

<<. The two don't reconcile.>
i dont see why not/science sees not difference
kids dont care/so what is belief in god//or belief in science/fools will claim/equal/mastery/over both arnt being honest

nar the twain/be met/but here,in satans realm
OR RATHER THE MANIFESTATION/OF SATANS DELUSIONAL FEAR/RATIONALISATIONS/AND COMFORTERS

<<<<. Some people can simultaneously believe contradictory things in different parts of their brains. For others, it causes dissonance, and they lose their faith>

I MOSTLY ABOID LYING/thus i believe most things people say they did/but my former wife/well she dont believe much/so its not much use explaining too much

<< They realise that if the modern evolutionists are right, then the ancient Hebrew writings are wrong.>>

no/dan\your overthining/its importanc
they swallowed/the warmbloded cold fish/becoming a wolf/then returning to the sea to become whales[it just needs proper telling what twat begot what?

lest we forget/the fallen angels we re imortal/thus death isnt serious/to those energy cannot ever be destroyed[thing is its clear that there were many lokies/crossbreeding[inbreeding]/with the genes/of a sow/that inbred/till it made adam

[then adam[Xy].the sterile hybred/wanted what the beasts got
[so they took/out the tiny[troublesum,'y'/and doubled up on the ;XX'
but then his sister/begot/and guess what/the apple thing[under 5 ways under mosaic law/was eve able to be forgiven[ie man forgiving'womans-foolishness]as brother/he could forgive/hIS\SISTER/AS FATHER/HE CAN FORGIVE/THE DAUGHTER/AS HUSHBAND/FORGIVES/WIFE\AS MAN/FORGIVES WOMAN[BUT NUMBER ON

SATAN ASKS/EE..WAS IT GOD WHO DIDST FORBID
AND NO.[KNOW/the one who forbade/was adamn/cause he made the whole thing up/then hid the peroof[thats why woman alone have the gift of co-creation

<< They stop believing in the Word of God>
my beloved/grand-child...said/I DONT BELIEVE\IN GOD GRANDAD
I SAID THATS OK DEAR/HE WILL NEVER STOP believing in you

(I agree with you that it is unnecessary/who believes/what
if ya cant prove it /ya got nuthin[BUT IM NOT STANDING BEFORE GOSD TO SAY I didnt try to tell ya)

<<.If the ancients are wrong about their history>

so wghat/shakespear/translates/ditto many bible themes
who cares/its a bodyn of thought/asdvice peoms

<<, their writings cannot hold credibility for faith and morality>

rubbish.[i was a bad dad]
my kids are great/parents/didnt learn-it from me

<<>. =For the Bible is a consistent whole...(it's not dissonant)>

its complete/in what it representsbut its our interaction/with the dead words/that either/join the letters/or the reality[its a great divination device]

<<: the New Testament is dependent upon the Old,>

of course/but thats the big clue[as to his miracles]
iE THE RITUAL/OF CLEAN HANDS/and fixety of creed rite/over the living saviour

who wasnt as agressive as predicted[when jesus knew it was john/how joseph is a parental ideal

<< while also being a fulfilment of the Old.>

ahhhh men
but then again/jesus preceeded many things/with because it was prophesised[john the offspring/of two high priests/was to be the one

GIVE A DOG/A BAD/name
http://rinf.com/alt-news/usa-news/america-hates-despises-victims/

ignore/the pain/u ain seen nuthin/yet
http://investmentwatchblog.com/economic-realities-those-euromyths-in-full/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-great-deformation-of-central-banking-debt-burdens-have-never-been-higher-500-years-of-dutch-interest-rates-have-never-been-lower/

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/nsa-linux-journal-extremist-forum-and-its-readers-get-flagged-extra-surveillance

Is Christine Lagarde The Most Dangerous Woman In The World?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-03/expropriation-back-christine-lagarde-most-dangerous-woman-world

I have gone on record that the most dangerous organization is the now French led IMF with Christine Lagarde at the helm, which has presented a concept report that debt cuts for over-indebted states are uncompromising and are to be performed more effectively in the future by defaulting on retirement accounts held in life insurance, mutual funds and other types of pension schemes, or arbitrarily extending debt perpetually so you cannot redeem.

Yes you read correctly, The new IMF paper is described in great detail exactly how to now allow the private sector, which has invested in government bonds, to be expropriated to pay for the national debts of the socialist governments.

http://12160.info/xn/detail/2649739:Topic:1480624

http://nwo-patriot-link-news.blogspot.com/2014/07/google-is-being-forced-to-censor.html

http://www.newsforage.com/2014/07/goldman-sachs-asks-judge-to-force.html
Expropriation Is Back -
http://rt.com/usa/170172-nypd-arrest-subway-sleeping/
http://investmentwatchblog.com/virginia-high-schooler-threatens-suicide-police-arrive-and-kill-him/

POSt/LIMITATION

fiction auther[the warmist/coolit/changers will love being frightend/by it

Author Guy Hallowes reveals how Australia will be wiped out by a 15-metre tsunami in fictional book Icefall

* by: DEBRA KILLALEA
* From: news.com.au
* 1 month ago May 12, 2014 1:36PM


http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/author-guy-hallowes-reveals-how-australia-will-be-wiped-out-by-a-15metre-tsunami-in-fictional-book-icefall/story-fnjwvztl-1226914582072?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=technology
o What are these?

The face of B-15A iceberg measuring 150km across McMurdo Sound after it broke off the Ros

The face of B-15A iceberg measuring 150km across McMurdo Sound after it broke off the Ross Ice Shelf in the Antarctic in December 2004. Source: AFP
The environmental thriller Icefall by author Guy Hallowes.

The environmental thriller Icefall by author Guy Hallowes. Source: Supplied

AUSTRALIA will be wiped out by a 15-metre tsunami which will destroy major ports and coastal cities, leading to millions of deaths and sparking utter devastation.

That’s the gloomy outcome in Sydney-based author Guy Hallowes’ new book Icefall which details the consequences of a huge ice shelf plunging into the sea and causing a major tsunami.

In his book, Hallowes reveals how the Ross Ice Shelf, which is roughly the size of France, breaks away, causing a catastrophic tsunami.

Australia’s coastal towns are destroyed due to their proximity to the sea, there is a complete communication shutdown, the Government ceases to function, as does the police.

The tsunami prediction, made by the British Antarctic Survey, New Zealand Scientists, and the Pentagon, is ignored by most of the world’s population.

The only survivors who took note of the warning are a small enclave who escape into the safety of the NSW Blue Mountains

Pretty scary, OUG :)

But aren't ice shelves actually sitting on the sea ? If they break away from the main shelf, they don't cause anything much. Plunging into the sea ? They're already in it. Am I missing something ?

Joe

-its supposed..to-be.......*fiction.
but/i expect\..the greenies/will present-it..as
some proof\of something*SCRARY/TXABLE/but.i agree.with you/a huge chuNck broke off\2 years ago/didnt really..do anything

but/im behind.on\articLE-posts/
then found/the\transCRIPT/FROM LAST\NIGHTS..FOUR-CORNERS ARRIVED
and i/broke\that down/instead/

now..waiting/to post/the damm/thing..in\two hours

the promised\quotes/

sTEPHEN/LONG:<<..20 per/cent..Renewable Energy*Target,?
*that's not*..in fact*what*..the legislation says.

The law calls*for\a fixed*amount*
of electricity/to come*/from renewable.sources\by 2020.>>

key*..<<..Forty-one-thousand*gigawatt hours
*from..*large scale**schemes.>>

READ*.HUGE/SOLAR/WIND-FARMS

<<..At-least 4,000\gigawatt-hours
from small-scale\renewable energy\schemes,[such\as roof-top/solar.>>

SO/THEIR..MATES/GET..TEN*FOLD
MORE.THAN/the\SELL-OUTS/GOT

HERE/IS..*a subsidized*reseller/talking*big

<<..MILES GEORGE,*MD,\INFIGEN ENERGY:..So\there'Is
90 turbines here*,/[including..the Capital\and Woodlawn wind farms.]

STEPHEN LONG:..Miles George/is\managing director-of the company, which operates..*24/renewable power-plants *-

[*six of\them.in Australia.=\STE

(PHAN/to MILES GEORGE);How much/power..does that>>..
IE [THE]..24 FARMS/..<<<,generate?

<MILES GEORGE:..It's\enough power
to power\about half.the houses\in Canberra.>>

24 PLANTS..[how many/billions-to build
HOW MUCH GOVT..;SUBSIDY*[50/50?]

PLUS/nice*fat/CONTRACTED/buy*back price/
in cash*each month.

then apple.[lol].100%[solar/]..Not\off/*the grid
so thats/a lie/too..[2typical]

<<..The computing*power/needed-to process\all that\content>>[24/7]...shared...on the web.and on mobile devices/is-a massive drain on electricity.

The power.demands/have led to\accusations
that technology/companies/TOO\have a "dirty cloud".
<<..the solution:.....a vast solar farm,..generating/..167 million kilowatt/hours\of GREEN/SYSTEM\power..Enough/to make*Apple's data centre 100/per cent powered..>>

wrong...[paid/for/..<<..by renewable energy.>>
too/sneaky/

but-wait/more*
watch/the clever/joinder

<<.It's the\largest solar-farm\in the United-States\not owned\by a power utility..and it's supplemented*by\fuel-cells that store electricity *...[wait]...generated*..from biomass.>>..

gas/stored/at-best/..not electicity

the bowls/cub[small/scale/solar/<<..STEPHEN LONG:edit/.. in the face of rocketing electricity bills/he convinced\the board to have 360 solar panels.......installed on\the roof \of the bowlo'.

PAT EGAN:Yeah you...can see\a good view\of them
there now;..they are\in banks of 10...times..36

edited/..<<I was\trying to\find ways
to save costs.....And increase./our revenue.*>>

[edit]

<<....So that\was a month's power bill?

PAT EGAN:Yeah.

STEPHEN LONG:.Ten thousand bucks\or close enough

PAT EGAN:\And this\one's $4,891.

STEPHEN LONG:..That's a huge saving.>>..

and guess who*is paying/for-it?

YES/IT-IS/YOU.
and/thats..*small-scale*]

\THE SAME\greedy-FOOLS/boozers/THAT BOUGHT/300 SOLAR CELLS/TO PUT ON
their roof\and/guess what/..it gets worsE\too maNY scamers

<<Those city-facilities\are now
*powered about 97,98 per\cent\by solar.>>

not/powerd/paif-for*
[huge/difference.

<<......What's really\driven-up power\prices
has been..a massive investment\in/the network*:>>

NETWORK*
IE/THE/GREEN-SOLAR/WIND-networks-
recall/the net*work/needing/*40 megahellofalots/of energy/by 2020!

they blame/or call it/ the poles\and wires,.
[in/reality/spent/building the*new-green/networks}

<<.. the infrastructure.>
the green/infrastructure\plus ports gas pipelines/and turbines...solar*panels..[to offset/cost]

<<..And,as/it turns out,..*much of\that investment..was*unnecessary>>

JOHN GRIMES:.They got-the/forecast..*wrong.

<<.Power prices*are going up\because[green*]power companies/have
over invested in the..[green]network and\those*companies\get a guaranteed*return*..on their investment,

-*guaranteed/by the\Government.>>[ie/your/power-bill*

all-paid/4
paid/by/idiots/like-us.

<<.IVOR FRISCHKNECHT, CEO, AUSTRALIAN RENEWABLE ENERGY AGENCY:..The main reason for the increase in electricity prices is the cost*..of networks.>>

these/green-networks/getting contraual licence.to steal/us\blind

odious/debt*[trEason/proceeds of crime]

<<.So network infrastructure>>[GREEN/NETWORKING/INFASTRUCTURE..<<>.....has been added to pretty dramatically in the last five years.and that is roughly half of your total electricity bill today*..goes to pay for the poles and wires>>

mate/networks
half/the bill goes to building/netwORKS*

<<>.that carry electricity..TO*\and/*from the generators to your house/or business.>>

STEPHEN LONG:/As energy prices soared, for the first time ever,..electricity consumption went backwards...the problem is partly of the industry's own making,..>>

<<.*the fall in consumption has driven a backlash \/against renewable energy.>>

hence/this/puff-piece

<<.Incumbent[green/renewable].power companies are saying,..why build more capacity when there's already/oversupply?>

excpt/for when solar sleeps
and you creeps steal it back[but not at the extra rate][at night we all on the grid]our grid/not yours/your collecting rent from our pockets.

MATTHEW WARREN, CEO, ENERGY SUPPLY ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA: The simple/reality is the RET,..the Renewable Energy Target.as designed\was designed to fill anticipated growth..in the market*>>

REA GREEN MARKETEERS

<<.and the market conditions\/have changed.>>
THANK-GOD/OR WE WOULD/BE PAYING-DOUBLE/AGAIN;'

STEPHEN LONG: Matthew Warren is chief executive of the Energy Supply Association.

MATTHEW WARREN:..We've seen an.*ever accelerating*decline in demand/since 2009>>

LOL
SEEMA AL/THE BIG USERS GET BIG FAT REFUNDS

<<>. and so/that's meant that,>>

NOTICE THE DEAY
HERE IS WHY

<<>.what was 20 per cent.is now looking more like 25, 28, 29 per cent,..and that's a much bigger target.>>

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/07/07/4038488.htm

cause/we bet we could reap in much more money/<<.Forty-one-thousand*gigawatt hours from large scale schemes. >.by now/

soon no-one will be paying...nuthin
GREENIE/MERCHAMNDISERS/GOT..TOO GREEDY*