With several businesses choosing not to trade over the Easter weekend, it's quite obvious that the penalty rates are taking their toll.

So, the businesses miss out as they don't make any profit, the workers miss out because they don't have work, both of which result in less taxes paid,and the customers are inconvenienced because there are less shops, cafes etc open.

Why on earth two grown consenting adults can't come to their own arrangements, without big brother sticking their noses in is beyond comprehension.

I guess some just have to learn the hard way.

Dear rehctub,

Sorry I'm going to disagree with you on this one.
Big time. If employer's want to stay open on
public holidays or after the usual working hours,
presumably for the profits they're going to make,
they should be prepared to pay their employees
their entitlements for bringing in these profits
for them. It should not all be just one-sided -
benefiting only the employer. And as for two
consenting adults being able to work out things -
that's not always as easy as you suggest, especially
when one of the adults holds all the power - and by
intimidation tries to balance things only to their
own advantage (that's why we have unions). All this
"poor employer," rot - is just that - rot. Nowadays
if you want to go into any sort of business you
have to make it attractive for people to want to work
for you - or they'll vote with their feet - and you
won't survive. By all means - it should be a "give
and take," matter but equally important to remember -
it should not be just about "take" on behalf of the
employer.

The two consenting adults does not work for everything, and especially not wages or conditions. Never did and never will.
That is why we have red tape to protect people from that sort of situation.
Butch likes pushing his far right propaganda, a one sided outcome.
If you can't make ends meat with penalty rates, you do not trade or you do it for your good will. Business is not a compulsory profit making venture. Sometimes you have to trade to keep market share during the week.

rehctub - I have to disagree as well, it is not a matter of "two grown consenting adults can't come to their own arrangements" simply because for 1 the employer has all the power if the other does not agree to what the employer wants just find another who will.

When there are a lot more unemployed than employed workers the power is swayed against the worker, in most situations.

Foxy, the business can't stay open to make the profits, because the only way they can gain their share is to increase their prices, a move that would see the likes of Coles and Wollies clean up, as theynhave too many irons in the fire.

But, as I say, if the hard way is the only way t learn, then by all means, have it the hard way but, don't complain when jobs are not there to be had or, we see an even bigger increase in the casualization of our workforce, as it's simply a reaction to an action.

579, while I agree to some extent, what about those who loose their work, if not their jobs over it?

Remember the pledge made by Julia, no worker will be worse off! How can loosing hours be constituted as no worse off?

Having been on both sides, I can see both arguments.

Businesses are set up to make a profit on the investment, They are not there simply to provide employment.

If the business does not make a profit, there is little hope for those employed, as they will be made redundant.

When I was an employee, I loved working overtime because:-

1. I was earning extra money, and

2. I was not out spending money, so I doubly gained.

That is how I earned and saved enough capital to start my own enterprizes. Found it pretty hard going to start with, but doesn't everybody. More comfortable now.

People will not get very far if they just sit there and wait for it to happen and leisure costs you.

....When there are a lot more unemployed than employed workers the power is swayed against the worker, in most situations.

Point taken Phillip, so why did we see the huge increase in wages and conditions when the pendulum was in the opp direction?

Why is it ok then when the worker is the one with the power?

Sorry, times have changed and if we don't allow flexibility back into the workplace, it will cost jobs. The good times are over.

The good times are over. If you listen to Hockey and co that is what they say. But the figures do not stand up. Our economy is moving along nicely. Our GDP has never been so good.
When the mining boom was on they contributed 11 % to GDP. However manufacturing slumped by almost 15 % as a result of labour being bandycooted to work in the mining industry. Since the slump manufacturing has again picked up and our GDP has now surpassed an all time high.
But Hockey is not talking about our GDP. He is talking about the 68 billion he has stacked on since coming to power.
A massive amount of that money is being spent on the refugees, and now finding someone else's airoplane.
Overseas aid is a false economy, they should not be paid cash, foreign aid should be in goods supplied from AU.
So the wares are there to reign in spending without what frogswabble Hockey is talking about.

I can't see the problem here.

>>With several businesses choosing not to trade over the Easter weekend<<

The key word here is "choosing". No-one is forcing them to stay open and pay penalty rates. Nor are many small businesses, like cafes, prevented from applying a public holiday surcharge, which would seem to re-balance the playing field. Coles and Woolies are in exactly the same boat in terms of costs, and their competition is the corner store that already charges a premium for providing their services.

If the business is profitable, stay open. If it isn't, go home and enjoy a holiday.

Or pay cash to casuals.

It is sad to see how the discussion about individual freedoms is hijacked by this tired left/right divide as well as by financial interests on both sides of that stupid divide.

The freedom to agree on and carry out whatever arrangements between two (or more) consenting individuals should be sacred. Period.

However, we should bear in mind that this is between individuals - that freedom is irrelevant when one of the parties is an incorporated company, because a company is an artificial construct rather than a sentient being, thus has no natural freedoms.

One note, Rehctub: for all practical purposes, two consenting individuals can already avoid penalty rates - they simply don't need to tell anybody about the details of their deal!

One disturbing aspect specific to "public holidays" is that the government enforces its own social values on the general population, giving unfair privileges to some bodies that it favours such as established Christian churches and the gambling industry. People of other religions have different religious holidays and people of other cultures have much more important dates in their calendar than this immoral horse-racing, yet they do not receive any penalty rates if their employer requests them to work on the dates most dear to them while they are prevented, by penalty rates, from making up for those days on which they are unwilling to work by working on Easter and other dates which means nothing special to them. I am actually surprised that the so-called 'Left' does not pick up on this, especially about the unfair privilege that churches and gamblers receive in collusion with the state.

Dear rehctub,

Penalty rates kept our family going in the
past when my husband started his own business
and we had to rely on my income to stay afloat.
It was very hard going and without penalty
rates I doubt if we would have survived. Pericles
puts it so well, as always, when he points out that
it is a matter of choice for employers if they want
to stay open over Easter. I agree with him. If its
not profitable for them to do so, they should just
enjoy the holiday. Also small businesses like -
restaurants do charge higher prices during these
times - and they certainly don't lose on staying
open.

I can't see what religion has got to do with it. We have here, workers that are expected to work weekends and public holidays as part of normal practice. So penalty rates are part of their wage structure. There are some that believe that this structure is prohibitive, and want to create a working poor for the good of the employer.
FWA set these wages so no one gets exploited, as would be the case with your sacred one on one agreement.

I could not believe when we were stupid enough to allow all weekend & most night trading by the big 2. It must have pushed up prices, as the sales of groceries would not have changed much, but the cost in wages & overheads must have skyrocketed, with the extra opening hours to do the business.

Although not profitable immediately, it allowed the big 2 to push out the smaller supermarkets & corner stores, who traded in these antisocial hours to make a crust.

I found it crazy that the unions went along with it, giving another win to the big end of town. It was then that I started to realise that the unions weren't interested in justice, they would rather have cosy deals with the big boy. Much better for filling those slush funds.

Foxy my sweet you have to realise how tourist areas work. They are 7 day towns, & every day is the same.

This was highlighted to me one day. I was going to have to skipper one of the big cats, when I did not have a replacement skipper qualified to run one, when a regular skipper went on holidays.

I needed new white shoes, my old ones were falling apart. One morning, when everything worked, with no hassles, an unusual event, I grabbed the chance to drive down to MacKay, 100 Kilometers or so, to get some. MacKay was almost empty when I got there. It was only then I realised it was Sunday, & shoe shops & department stores still shut in those more relaxed days.
Continued.

Continued.

In the Whitsundays we had many small operators paid a cash in hand daily rate, & many others who paid the same daily rate, every day. Their employees wanted to work weekends, despite getting no more money for it. When decent shopping is a couple of hours away, you need week days off to do it. Hell you can't even get your car serviced, or see a doctor on the weekends, it is week days you need off.

While there is no excuse for weekend rates, I still believe long hours should be rewarded with overtime. However 8 hours should be 8 hours. When most would rather the day off to sunbake, or go fishing, then do an evening shift, why should the evening shift be better paid.

Cities may be different. Melbournians who have to miss their Saturday dose of that funny game you play down there may have a claim, but today, their team is probably playing Friday night, so it is becoming all the same there too.

Penalty rates, as distinct from overtime, are just a hangover from a different time, & that time is gone.

So Foxy, how do you suggest you would have faired had you lost your job due to penalty rates, or, your over time/penalty rate days were taken away from you, because that's essentially what's happening now in many cases.

Hasbeen, extended trading hours hit my industry very hard.

You see the big two simply cut back on night fill staff during the introduction period, then, once popularity grew, they re hired their night fill. They achieved this through increased market share, as they simply staved out the small retailer, and they're not finished yet.

Sadly, being cash businesses, most small retailers almost need security guards to protect what's theirs when they're not there, which is impossible with extended hours.

The problem is society now demands a seven day/night shopping option, so they have to pay for it.

Finally, any amount of right or wrong will not help those who were counting on their Easter wages to support the household but have had that money taken from them by third parties.

Shift workers get extra for the hours they work. You can't worry about some losing their job, it's the majority you have to look after.
All that an employee has to sell is their labour, so if you want it you have to pay the appropriate rates. You can't discriminate because some businesses are not viable. As long as an employer is covering costs, there should be no problem. OR do we have an employer making a profit and an employee better off on the dole.

Dear rehctub,

You asked me how would I have fared if I would have lost my
job because of penalty rates? Luckily I was at that
time protected by set award wage rates and penalty rates
were part and parcel of those award rates. My employer
was forced under the award rates to pay his employees
all of their entitlements. They were not up for negotiation.
That's why I stayed in this job at the time - for family
security reasons - we had to have a steady dependable
income that we could rely on - as my husband's income came
in dribs and drabs and was not reliable.

Dear 579,

<<I can't see what religion has got to do with it.>>

Good observation - perhaps it's not religion or perhaps for most employees it is not: one doesn't, strictly speaking, need an Easter date to remember and contemplate Jesus' sacrifice and to try to live accordingly.

Nevertheless, the Christian churches - religious or otherwise (a good source for prolific discussions, but outside the scope of this topic), are involved and have an interest in having this particular weekend of Easter full of public holidays, same for Christmas - and nevertheless, the Australian state is fulfilling their wishes at the expense of people of other cultural/religious affiliations.

Who or what gives the state a right to dictate which dates are meaningful for us and which are not?

Muslims for example have the whole month of Ramadan where it's extremely difficult to work while fasting. Why can't a Muslim business that employs Muslim employees instead provide penalty rates for those working on Ramadan, then have business-as-usual on Easter to make up for the losses?

Similarly the Jewish calendar has about 10-12 days a year (besides the Sabbath, occurring on Friday evenings and Saturdays) when it's strictly forbidden to work, an extra 14 or so days when it's recommended not to work if possible, plus 4-6 fasting days when one may work, but it's extremely difficult without even having water. Why then are Jewish businesses, employing Jewish people, prevented from setting their work-holidays and penalty-rate-days on those dates instead?

<<exploited, as would be the case with your sacred one on one agreement.>>

How could anyone possibly be exploited when two individuals freely and fully-informed enter an agreement, with nothing else requiring them to be related in the first place?

Too right Yuyutsu. Time to get back on the path of truth.

Oh, & get rid of all those "people of other cultural/religious affiliations". Never should have had them here in the first placer.

A catch cry of the conservatives is the buzz word "FLEXIBILITY" and I am the first to agree that both workers and employers could realistically do with a little flexibility in the workplace, provided that flexibility is fair and balanced. Unfortunately for some employers flexibility is noting more than a euphemism for launching an assault on the hard won wages and conditions of their employees. In the name of flexibility some bosses are out to take what ever they can and give nothing in return.
It was clearly seen with Howard's Work Choices how the conservatives view flexibility in the workplace, and exactly how they would have it applied, all to the detriment of the employee. Abbott is chafing at the bit to introduce his own new version of Howard's WC, all designed to rob the worker and boost the employers bottom line. One thing I learned years ago, never trade conditions for pay, pay can easily be eroded, condition are a good deal harder to take away.

Dear Hasbeen,

<<Oh, & get rid of all those "people of other cultural/religious affiliations". Never should have had them here in the first placer.>>

I see that you want to get rid of me... Nevertheless, I'm here to stay!

Dear Paul,

<<Howard's WC, all designed to rob the worker and boost the employers bottom line.>>

Sigh, I understand that sadly, some people, including some prime-ministers have that particular goal in mind - with such "friends", who needs enemies?!

However, my intention in supporting WorkChoices cannot be any further from a desire to support people's greed. My position is derived solely from the universal principle of non-violence, that it is wrong and immoral to deny people their natural freedoms.

Your problem, Paul, is that at the moment your subsistence depends on employment. Being desperate for your children not to starve, you seem willing to bend any principle and any sense of decency: specifically, you're happy to deny the individual freedom of such people whom you label "employers" in order to ensure that your children have enough to eat.

Now suppose your family's subsistence was not in doubt. Suppose you were assured to have the basics no matter what, irrespective of employment. Suppose that if you chose to enter into a formal employment-agreement, it would only be for the sake of extra comforts and luxuries, rather than for the basics. Should that be the case, then you could stand firm against any employer and would need not accept any of their conditions just as they don't need to accept yours.

Yes, your welfare is important, but your boss is not your father, thus it is unreasonable to expect him to be responsible for it.

Instead, what I propose (and always did), is a universal and unconditional payment to all, divorcing subsistence from the cruel world of economics. Technically this will take the form of a negative income-tax. Once we have this, all issues around "industrial-relations" would be dissolved by themselves and even the "Left", at least the non-greedy among them, will no longer uphold such laws that interfere with people's free choice.

Yuyutsu,

Let me say good morning, and I am pleased to hear you are a person who believes tn the universal principle of non-violence.

Your assumptions about me could not be further from the truth. You said;
"Your problem, Paul, is that at the moment your subsistence depends on employment. Being desperate for your children not to starve, you seem willing to bend any principle and any sense of decency: specifically, you're happy to deny the individual freedom of such people whom you label "employers" in order to ensure that your children have enough to eat."
To put you in the picture Yuyutsu. I own my own home in Sydney, and have money in the "bank", I have no debt what so ever, and have worked for over 40 years. So I'm comfortable and do not require work for subsistence, these days, through my own choice, I only work part time. My children are off my hands and not exactly "starving" as you put it.
I don't have a problem. You seem to go along with the conservative spin that if you remove all controls, remove all representation and leave industrial relations to "free" negotiation between employers and individual employees then miraculously all will be satisfied. In a make believe Utopian world of equality, that may well be the case, but in the real world of inequality, that is far removed from the reality. The conservative motive is no lofty idealism, but the grim reality of driving down pay and conditions, and they know this can be achieved if the employer applies individual contracts which have been "negotiated" with the employee, usually with the employee at a distinct disadvantage.
If our society is to exist with some form of order, then both employers and employees have a social responsibility to each other. To say the boss has no responsibility beyond the bottom line, and many perpetuate that nonsense, is asking for disorder in society.

Yuyutsu, this is Australia mate and, as it appears all are welcome to come here and share our lucky country, but, to expect to come here then change OUR WAYS to suit theirs is just wrong.

There are two choices, come and accept our ways, or don't come.

Foxy, with all due respect, the time you were talking about was Pre the seven day society we now have.

579, I have no problem with shift workers being paid penalty rates, but hospitality and tourism, the most effected by these rates don't have a large percentage of shift workers and, if they do, then they deserve their rates

Good morning Paul,

I am glad about your comfortable personal situation - then you must be concerned about others who are not as fortunate as yourself.

<<You seem to go along with the conservative spin>>

That's why I wrote earlier, "with such friends, who needs enemies?".

I don't know why you call greedy people "conservative", what it is they are trying to conserve or what else they may have between them other than greed: please let me assure you that I think independently and if they reached SOME of the same conclusions as I did, then it's merely a coincidence.

It is legitimate to like social order, to have a preference for it, but it is not legitimate to force it on others against their will as if they were tin soldiers to line-up. In the context of this discussion for example, it is not legitimate to dictate a calendar to people, especially those of different cultures/religions who may have a different calendar, telling them which should be their preferred holiday-dates. Talking about conservatives, wouldn't this be an attempt to "conserve" a particular culture by force?

Most employers are companies anyway and a company is an "industrial" body by definition, having no existence of its own other than within society - an individual OTOH is not. While it is legitimate to impose certain conditions on industrial bodies, it is not legitimate to interfere with private contracts between two fully-informed and consenting individuals by labelling one of them an "employer", the other an "employee" and their relationship "industrial".

Note that the individuals in question may have different relationship(s) - they may for example be family-members, friends, lovers or belong to a common cultural/religious community: stating that they cannot make their own contracts, that one must be exploiting the other, is insulting to both parties.

As for those whose only relationship is "industrial", my solution is simple: remove sustenance from the equation and from the harsh world of economics, then potential-employees will have full power to negotiate with potential-employers (with or without representation, as they wish), because come-what-may, they won't go hungry.

Dear Rehctub,

<<Yuyutsu, this is Australia mate and, as it appears all are welcome to come here and share our lucky country>>

Well this was not my experience. I had many friends who wanted to come here as well, but they couldn't because they didn't have the professional skills which Australia wanted at the time.

Nor can you say that about the current refugee situation, but we digress.

<<but, to expect to come here then change OUR WAYS to suit theirs is just wrong.>>

I wasn't asking you to change your ways, but has it never occurred to you that claiming a whole continent just for yourself and your culture, is also wrong?

It's only incidental that the British navy was the strongest in the 18th century. Israel at least, claims (rightly or wrongly) that their land was eternally promised by God - you don't claim even that!

<<There are two choices, come and accept our ways, or don't come.>>

Sorry mate, I'm already here!

When I came, Australia's representatives were too happy to have me (for the economic gain) and while I follow the conditions they've set, assimilating with this or that culture was not one of them.

Had I been told in advance for example, that if I come I must drink beer, watch the footie and gamble on horses, then I wouldn't have come - nevertheless, I weren't ever told anything of the like!

Dear rehctub,

Actually the time I was talking about did involve
working seven days. Public libraries are
open on week-ends, including Sundays - and they
need library staff to provide the necessary services
to the public. Rostered week-ends are part and parcel
of the working week. Just thought you should know.

.....A catch cry of the conservatives is the buzz word "FLEXIBILITY

Paul, people must understand that for things to go up (wages and conditions) in good times, such as those experienced during the recent boom times, due mainly to more demand than supply, when those times have passed (which they have) this same wages and conditions MUST be allowed to come back down again.

Also, when people CHOOSE to work weekends, so they can do other things during week days, why should they be FORCED to work week days and again be FORCED to have weekends off when it doesnt suit them. Especially if their industry can be accommodating to their wants and needs.

That's my definition of flexibility. So what do you see wrong about that?

Yuyutsu,
My beef is with those who harbor hatred within their religion, nothing more.

As for other religions who wish to celebrate days other than our recognized public holidays, tough! The laws were here before they came.

Foxy, my main concern with penalty rates are with hospitality, tourism and to a lesser extent, retail.

Not only are hospitality and tourism faced with penalty rates, they are also large energy users and we all know what energy prices have done.

Retails main problem is extended hours and online shopping, all of which add to addition costs such as PR.

Anyone being expected to work abnormal hours, including shift work should be compensated and I don't have an issue with that.

But when you see small hospitality businesses and tourism operators closing over Easter due to excessive wages, you know you have a problem, because, under Julias IR baby, no worker should have been worse off. That's my beef, as any worker who looses their shift/job has to be worse off.

A worker who loses their penalty rates are worse off. I think if you discriminate against certain industries, it would force a shift. For a lot of the people concerned it would not be viable employment situation.
You could end up employing kids or pensioners, and that i presume would be scratchy wether you could keep them or not. I say it should be up to the states, and not across the board.
Either way you are trying to create an underclass and i say that is not acceptable. I can not see the FWA of condoning such an action.

579, why do you think so many construction workers today are on contract and not on regular full time work.

There are two main reasons in my view, one, it's the only way large companies can clear out the 'dead wood' legally these days, and two, because each project can be evaluated on a case by case basis and, rates of pay and conditions set accordingly, often influenced by employment trends on the day.

What a sad way for many to have to live.

If you are not willing to allow wages and conditions to move (both ways) depending on demand, then you are truly taking the inflexible view. Of cause that's your right, it's also one of the causes of so many jobs today being either casual or contract based.

As for industry bias, some industries, like hospitality need their staff on weekends and are happy for them to have mid week days off, and these arrangement are often suitable to both sides. Julias one size fits all theory is what has caused the pain in the first place. And it will see many employees worse off.

But, again you are entitled to your opinion, somif you're happy to,see workers out if work, all be cause you think they should be paid more on weekends, then that's boardering on sticking your nose in where it doesnt belong as these arrangements won't effect you. But, that's the labor way.

So what so sad about that, they get to do things in their own time or off load some to whoever.
We are talking about real contractors and not a sham contractor where the person is really an employee. Which is illegal.
A weekend is a weekend whatever way you see it. We have to have these rules to protect people from unscrupulous employers.
No job is any less of a job than any other. If you don't trade because you cant make a profit, so be it. How many out there who just break even and trade for the PR. If your not there on weekends you will get bypassed during the week. There's more to business than making a profit.

Butch,

Lets cut to the chase, Australia's 2 biggest employers are retailers Coles and Woolworth, these are mega businesses with around 200,000 employee's each. Both run many 24/7 operations, mainly supermarkets, but lots of other retailing operations as well. Overall they are very profitable businesses indeed. Their stores in the main are staffed by wages employees, some full time, some part time, many casual. All of their retail operations are operated under union negotiated workplace agreements.
There is no call from either of these two corporations for any so called "flexibility" within their business, they are happy to operate with the "restrictions" placed on them by properly negotiated workplace agreements, paying penalty rates as agreed, and other agreed conditions. Why should others, for what ever reason, be entitled to scrap hard won pay and conditions and negotiate down or away those worker benefits,

Paul, the answer is simple, because retail , especially large retail, has not been effected as badly by PR as the likes of hospitality and tourism.

Coles and Wollies don't pay triple time on public holidays, as they usually pay a penalty, then give a day/time off in lue. Small Hospitality dont work that way.

Another huge advantage the the big two enjoys is market share, as once they taken their share, the others, including the dying small retailer, have to fight over the scraps.

As for hospitality, Coles and Wollies own many pubs and their sheer size allows them to provide meals at prices small operators simply can't compete with.

Sadly, much of the funding from this unfair domination comes from pokies, as I read somewhere that Wollies is now the biggest owner of poker machines.

I dear say their pub staff don't get paid what smaller independent employers staff get paid on PH.

But, as I have said to others, by all means keep pushing, but the result will be loss of jobs and, how do you suggest a worker can be no worse off if they don't have a shift/job due to the closure of their place of work on public holidays, days where they used to enjoy affordable penalty rates, and were quite happy with them at at.

Remember Paul, I didn't say no worker will be worse off, Julia did.

OUG although I like to family time of Easter, I don't buy the myth of it all.

BTW, I have no problem with anyone being compensated for working Good Friday and Christmas days.

its/well known/the slaves..[pub*lick sir*vants]..have let us down

if/yOUR..PAYING THE BILLS/TIME..YOU KNEW WHY

arjay/quote..<<>.This pre-occupation with illegals..>>

WILLING/TO..WORK..FOR FREE.<<<is a just a distraction from the real game of looting..our economies and keeping us peasants subjugated>>
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16224&page=0

see how they sell suburbia/REPLACEMENT/CULTURE..TO US..in sitcoms
we bought..into the dream..instead of family[PICK/A FAMILY/PICK..FRIENDS]

we are..'the team'[JUDGE/JUDY/COP-SHOWS/FOOTY/SOME BALL/'BROADCAST'
or the state..or the nationality..or the sex..or the skin..GROUP/MOB

my point is we are all..being made..over into clones..SET WAGE/ACIODING/TO..THE STANDARD.O.OF WORK/EXPECTED..FROM A FORCED SLAVE..

ONE BRUSH TARS..US ALL/
WE ARE ALL SINNERS/WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS...BEGGING..FOR WORK

we are..all..SPOILED/BELOVED..children..enjoined living mortal heirs of..the one most holy living living merciful immortal/omnipresenowholly spirit.

how to explain..to loved ones..whats going on
globally..is they give us foodstamps..or subsistence dole/PENAL TITHE/RATE/CASAUAL/AT CALL.ONE SIZE FITS ALL

where most half/govt income..goes back direct to some capitalist ..landlord/tax free.[off shored trust]..stealing govt/bailout cash..from..slaves..working/for\dole.

[we ARE SEEING REAL-ESTATE UP..AGAIN IN IRELAND..yet..still 5000 ghost estates..they bought up pennies in the pound..stand empty

but/what if*..we could..get cash/from govt via rent assistance for immigrants ..nice sure govt cash-flow..to fill to fill the capitalist bill..dole/rent assistance..

[yet more drain/from the public purse..filled only by selling more public services..[privatisations..of govt income streams..or by ever more sin taxes or fees fines revenue acces chargES/other increases in govt theft..[read tax burden]

WE ARE SEEING HOUSES GO UP/..YET/SEEING EVICTIONS AND REPOSSESSIONS..homeless joblessness broken homes..go up to

THEN..HUGE GOVT..bailout/mates..with TAX ADVANTAGED FIRMS CREATING THE NEXT INVESTMENT BOND..bubble..[bunded RENTED HOUSING]...damm caps..ie the next bubble[rental houses paid for immigrants via dole payments]

its a hidden bailout/
THE GROWTH MODEL DEMANDS
but..ONLY PUTS further NON PRODUCTIVE/Burden on us...ALL .GLOBALLY..
http://rss.infowars.com/20140417_Thu_Alex.mp3

i wish people would..get the facts
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
GIVE THINGS A REST
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16225&page=0

Dear Rehctub,

<<As for other religions who wish to celebrate days other than our recognized public holidays, tough! The laws were here before they came.>>

I wonder whether the good-will is there, but if there is a will - then there is a way:

Let every employee give their employer in advance a list of a fixed number of dates per-annum on which they really-really don't want to work.

If the employer is unable to fix the rosters so they are free on those dates, then they get penalty rates.

If the majority of employees still value Easter for example, then they will still receive penalty rates on Easter because there wouldn't be enough replacements.

Doesn't this sound fairer?

Well done Yuyutsu, you have just shown us you are prepared to sell your religion for a few ounces of silver. Of course it is nothing I did not expect.

If you don't like the holidays given in a Christian country, you do know the answer

Dear Hasbeen,

The purpose of penalty rates should be to compensate real people for real sacrifices and inconveniences - not for the state to enforce its social (or even religious) ideology and calendar.

At some stage, if the sacrifice is too great, then one just says to their boss: "forget about it, hell may freeze over, you can shoot me but I still won't come to work on this particular date", but at other times it's only an inconvenience, so then a pecuniary compensation is appropriate.

My local fish and chip shop is open all over Easter has a signup 50c surcharge for opening public holidays per order talking to him no one has had a problem with it,Maybe rather then trying to get your workers to work for peanuts you might try a bit of creative thinking.

....Doesn't this sound fairer?

Simple answer, No! Why, because running a business is about running a business, not managing the personal needs of employees. If they (employees) don't like that, they can always startbtheir own business.

Problem solved! Their customers may not be obliging, but at least they will have their saced days off.

Why should less than 1% of the workforce disrupt the entire system when all they need to is start their own business. If they are game enough!

Another problem with your suggestion is that what if the business closes on public holidays, what then, does that worker have the day off without pay? Yea, the union would have a field day with that.

Unfortunately the answer is loud and clear, when you arrive here, you either accept it, or leave.

Doesn't this sound fairer?

Aussieboy, the labor component for fish and chips is about 35%, so $5.25 for a $15.00 order. This incorporates all aspects of selling that meal.

On a public holiday that $5.25 becomes $15.75, so, how do you think people would react to a $10.50 surcharge on a $15 meal?

Furthermore, your average fish and chip shop is a poor example, as many of those dollars don't see the till and few pay the real wages.

The effect is on legitimate businesses that do the right thing

Dear Rehctub,

<<running a business is about running a business, not managing the personal needs of employees.>>

Both of us already agree on that: we already agree that IR laws are wrong in principle, though we seem to disagree on what should come in their place (your idea seems to be for everyone to open their own business, mine is to handle basic welfare through an unconditional negative-income-tax, then leave the rest for the free-market).

To the extent however that IR-laws stay and that those who work for others in exchange for money are still considered "employees" (whether they like it or not and whether we two like it or not), my suggestion is fairer to those "employees" than the current situation.

You raised a slight technical point, which can be solved with a slight technical-correction:

You want to encourage those of other religions/cultures to start their own business, but you overlooked the possibility that those of them who are "game enough" may employ others who are less "game enough". While anyone could be employed by these new businesses, they will be particularly attractive to those with a similar calendar as the owner - that's Laissez-faire, isn't it?

So long as we have IR laws, there's no perfectly-just solution anyway, but it only makes relative-sense that a business should be able to close down on any days it likes, rather than when the government tells it. What happens to pay-conditions on the days it's closed can be handled by unions similarly to how it is treated now, only without specifying certain dates as 'special'.

<<Unfortunately the answer is loud and clear, when you arrive here, you either accept it, or leave.>>

I have a vote just like you and the same right to thrive to change things that are improper in democratic ways.

The idea as if one culture may legitimately hog for itself a whole continent only because its ancestors had better ships and guns and used this place as a penal colony, is outdated and unfair.

(yes, I'm aware that others do it too: that's wrong as well!)

aussie/quote..<<..My local.fish and chip/shop.is open..all over Easter.[it]..has a sign/up.'50c surcharge..for opening public holidays.per order......Doesn't this sound fairer?....>>

yes..50 cents/per order...20 ORDERS PER HOUR=10 BUCKS
EASY/AS..TILL THE GREEDY BUTCHER..PUTS HIS BIG/FAT THUMB..ON THE SCALE

<<..because..running..a business..
is..about running..a business,>>

IE..GET MAXIMUM FROM..THE BOTTOM LINE
POOR ME\STUFF You..STUFF DELETED

<<>.Why should..less than 1%..of the workforce..disrupt the entire system..when all they need to..is start their own business...If they are game enough!>>

lol not everyone..wants to become..like you/blue*
<<..the answer is loud and clear,..when you arrive here,..you either accept it,..or leave.>>

no doudt..you put that..in your job adds?
weak as pee/..now saying what you always...*didnt say
[unless you were....holding their testes/in a sling]

requote\<<Doesn't this sound fairer?
Aussieboy,..the labor component..for fish and chips is about 35%>>

PLEASE PROVIDE PERSONAL PROOF..OR OUTSIDE SOURCE/ITS NOT THAT WE DONT BELIEVE YOU/BUT HECK..YOU CAN Always walk

<<..so $5.25 for a $15.00 order.>>
FOR UNDER 15 DOLLARS..PER HOUR AT LEAST/NORMAL TIME..IS THEFT

BUT HECK LETS RE-DO YA MATH

20 MEALS..[PER HOUR]..AT..$10..MOST OF THE WAGE Componant]
=[IS]..200 BUCKS..TIMES 10 HOURS=2000..[FOR TWO GRAND YOU COULD GET A BETTER SHOp/location..BUT IM SICK OF THIS/RUBBISH...and reading it thrice

bull<<This incorporates..all aspects of selling that meal.>>shhh it

<<>.On a public holiday that $5.25 becomes $15.75>>
how when the biggest wage cost is you the manager/boss
the loss/and most the cost/then you rent off yourself/but via a tax free of shored trust

<<,so,how do you think people would..
react to a $10.50 surcharge..on a $15 meal?>>

aussie boy just said..50 cents

great capitalist..that you are/YOU..just turned into ten bucks
INTO 200..LOL....THE tax people need double check ya math..how much income tax ya paying?

no dont tell me..i recall you already saying
at least we agree..on the other/trannie-tax/thing..but that was by math too

BULL..<<many of those dollars..don't see the till
and few pay the real wages>>.SHHH IT.. prove it.

AB/<<talking to him,,[shop/owner].no one has had a problem with it,..Maybe rather then trying to get your workers to work for peanuts you might try a bit of creative thinking...>>>

well/said..Aussieboy,..bravadO

ps need witness/..for court..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=11
HOPEFULLY THOUSANDS OF WITNESS/read a pipeline..to the ear of authority/first witness/is\my master.

I refrained and read your post OUG, something I usually don't bother to fo, as all this talking in riddles as you do make it hard work.

The minimum wage for a F&C worker (adult ) is approx $18 per hour. I work on a sale of $15 for ease of working. Which means the wage component of that meal is $5.25

Triple time on PH makes that $54 per hour. Simple math.

Wages do represent approx 35% of these businesses sale price, that's a fact.

So, if wages increase by 200%, that means the price should increase by 70% to cover the additional wages. People won't pay that yet expect the business owner too.

This is why more and more LIGITIMITE businesses are choosing to close on public holidays. Which brings me back to the basic question, how can a worker be no worse off if they loose their shift?

You and duck and weave this question all you like, but the fact remains they are worse off.

As for cash being skimmed off the top, take your head out of the sand if don't believe this happens.

Generally speaking there are some businesses, that their turnover increases on weekends and public holidays.

So if there is an increase in turnover for example from 10k on a week day to 15 or 20k on a weekend or public holiday, what is the problem?

To claim that the businesses whose turnover increases, on these days cannot afford penalty rates is a lie.

Wolly B, in the tourist industry, other than perhaps the small owner operated business near a major city, weekends offer the least trade for most.

You will find most of the small to medium operations, on the "Sunday drive" circuit pay a flat rate for the day, & the locals are glad to get the work.

You might be surprised to find how many are welfare recipients, & will only work for cash in hand. On the other hand, you probably approve of that, but want them paid top dollar.

Sundays & Mondays are the transfer days in the main tourist industry, when the majority are flying in or out. Tuesdays & Wednesdays are your peak trading, as they rush to do everything. Fridays can be busy, as their last opportunity before they leave.

One smart operator bunged on a "Polynesian Luau" on Saturday night, which improved his weekend trading, but we can't all be that clever. That was fun for me, as he used to have some of the waitresses do a hula as part of the show.

As one of the few people around, who had seen the real thing, he used to get me to teach each new bunch of girls. Ozzie girls had no idea. A hula is all in the knees, not the hips, hence the long skirts. It did not take long for them to get the idea, once shown.

wally B, Have you considered what it takes to increase that turnover from $10K to $20K, STAFF, all on penalty rates.

This is the problem when people that don't understand how a business operates start to assume they do. Worse still, we have government ministers with the same no idea mentality, which is all too often the cause of the mess in the first place.

As the labour component of preparing a meal is required FOR EVERY MEAL, it stands to reason that a doubling in meal numbers (turnover)equates to additional staff.

Now of cause the busier the shop is, the more efficient your staff costs become, so in essence the staff cost does not actually triple, because I only used that example for ease of explanation, and I apologise if I confused anyone, but it does increase significantly and a 50cent surcharge definitely doesn't cover it.

Your cost of goods remains the same, if not more, and often your rent/outgoings increase as well depending on your lease arrangements as most shopping centres charge additional rent on public holidays.

RECTOR-TUB/QUOTE..<<>.As the labour component of preparing a meal is required FOR EVERY MEAL,..it stands to reason that a doubling in meal numbers..(turnover)equates to additional staff.>

NO MATE/WRONG AGAIN
ya see we cook a couple of roast
then just dish them up/sometimes we work faster.or other times slow
but the food is pre cooked.its nearly ready to go

IM USING THAT TO HIDE THIS
AT LEAT YOU ADMIT..YOUR WRONG..sometimes

<<>.Now of cause the busier the shop is, the more efficient your staff costs become, so in essence the staff cost does not actually triple,>>

thats iok..we knew that

you exagurated a tad..<<because I only used that example for ease of explanation, and I apologise if I confused anyone,>>

great but then you did un pgarse it [side the aPOLOGY INSIDE AND OUTSIDE THIS COME BACK..IN THE SAME PARRAGRAPH..<< but it does increase significantly and a 50cent surcharge definitely doesn't cover it.??

DESPITE A SHOPKEEPER SAYING SO
FINE..but wait..there's more

lol

<<>Your cost of goods remains the same, if not more, and often your rent/outgoings increase as well depending on your lease arrangements as most shopping centres charge additional rent on public holidays.>>

thats a long stretch tubby
rent and outgoings increase..goods stay the same..[24/7]

most shopping centers?
additional rent on week ends..only if the numbers added up
but the math as we say..must be precise..or its on ice.
theory can triple wages costs..to score the point

but hey extra rent..on weekends/why not..
it all goes back into the tax free off shore trust accounts..
first..buy..your oWN SHOP..OR MAKE A RENT FREE OFFER..THE THINGS WILL NEVER BE CHEAPER..first buy the shop

location location location.

DONT MISS THIS
http://rss.infowars.com/20140420_Sun_Alex.mp3

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_20/Slavyansk-mayor-asks-Russia-to-send-peacekeeper-5232/
http://xrepublic.tv/node/8504
http://12160.info/page/bundyranch-the-case-for-a-little-sedition

Penalty rates are an incentive to intice people to work & forgo their weekends & public holidays. Why all of a sudden is there a push by this employer group & especially the media? Why is it the ones that are earning the big bucks begrudge this allowance? The places have been operating for years under the same system, all of a sudden they're on the push. They may use the excuse they are struggling but so is the employee who is willing to sacrifice their precious time to turn up to work on these occassions, the travelling to get there, the odd hours they finish & then to safely return to their homes for the sake of possibly 3-4 hours work. The hospitality sector apply surcharges to cover this & the cost of food & alcohol is also increased.

Are you sure about your baseline numbers, rehctub?

>>I work on a sale of $15 for ease of working. Which means the wage component of that meal is $5.25<<

According to this, each $15 order requires 17.5 minutes of dedicated labour.

That's quite a long elapsed time, in any service-oriented process, and would not seem to me to be a sensible business model to begin with.

What exactly do they do? I might be able to help you improve productivity quite substantially, if you are interested.

Lane56, the problem arose when the then Rudd government, with Gillard as employment minister, decided to come up with her one size fits all award system. Prior to that, there were penalty rates, but not the excessive ones the likes of the hospitality industry endures. There were also arrangements whereby employees could work say on a Sunday, at normal time, then have a week day off as well. Labor didn't like this.

We are also demanding a seven day society, something that was introduced (in QLD) about ten years ago.

You can't change trading hours without changing working arrangement otherwise you end up with an imbalance, which is what we now have in certain industries.

Pericles, the labor component takes in all aspects of producing that $15 meal, including cooking, cleaning, preparation, down time between customers and tasks, even holiday pay, sick leave and super.

Take a coffee shop, where your average cappichino costs around 40 cents to make.

Now if the owner could sell back to back coffees from open to close, they would make a fortune, but the reality' is, they don't. If they did, their cost of wages, as a percentage, would decrease.

Back to your average fish and chip shop.

Cost of goods is about 20 to 25%, wages 35% so the owner retains 40% GROSS. Out of that comes the rent, power etc etc and profit.

If wages increase to even 60% on a public holiday,allowing for increased productivity, the additional 25% comes from profits, because the power is the same, the rent the same, so on and so on.

It's interesting to see all the pro penalty rates supporters dodging the question of, how does is the worker no worse off if they have lost their shift/job.

At the end of the day, much of our workforce is now casual, thanks largely to restrictive conditions placed on employers. What a pity.

Some casual workers, may also have another job working either full or part-time.

Sure there are under the table cash payments, made to workers, but then if this type of payment is made, how can a business afford it?

Interestingly there is also a claim that the minimum wage is too high.

o.k rehctub, that is all well and good, yeah lets give a week day in leu of a weekend day, when the rest of the family is possibly working. Families are already being seperated to accommodate this workplace situation. Remember they all wanted to open weekends & public holidays years ago to what, benifit me. I dont' think so. They did it because it benefited them with all the allowances in place then. They want to change it for the bottom line. Rember if this changes it will go across the board & effect other industries. Also the tax is applicable to the earning. The ones that have this as a second job & are on the books, pay the tax!! Dollars round to go round.

......Sure there are under the table cash payments, made to workers, but then if this type of payment is made, how can a business afford it?

Simple Wally B, because if a worker earns say $400 on a PH and, assuming they work full time, about $170 of that goes in tax.

So, if the boss pays $250 cash, he saves $150 and the worker gets another $80 plus, they may keep thier welfare payments whichnis usually to motivator for cash wages in the first place.

Lane, as for that mid week day off, it could be used to play golf, go fishing, or spend some quality one on one with the partner while the kids are at school.

Besides, the day off in leu was to replace the double time, so in effect they worked four days not five.

All I know was it worked well for many, but the system they loved, has been taken away from them without consultation.

I lived small business, did of you?

Wolly B, yes some have other casual jobs, trying to make a possible livable wage at the end of the week. No permanancy, no guarantees, just survive. I've been fortunate to have been fully employed in the workforce for 40 years & watched this evolve. We are the lucky country, everyone can have a share of the pie not necessarily all the pie & certainly not the crumbs, if you put in get rewarded.

rehctub, yes, I have & still do run a small business. Yes it's hard work & we don't have any profit margins just a living. Bricklayers don't have that luxury despite what people think. I have compensated the family by working 40 hour + weeks in the private sector to meet our lifestyle & make it more, & no o/t rates (I was STAFF!!). Mind you the major reason for this business & most business incur is, dare I say!! Insurances, that is what is killing small business. Workers comp. third party, let's all go there?
I do like this forum..is there spellcheck on this site?

Dear rehctub
Not trying to have a shot at you but have you considered that all businesses that operate legally have the same problems and costs So makes for a very level playing field,Now the way I see it you have 2 choices
1. sit in office and count all your pennies and cry about the wages
this is what a bad manager does to focused on the small stuff and really most of your costs are fixed anyway,It will also lead to staff Dissatisfaction with you and result in a high turn-over if you only pay the award wage.
2.Be smart I'll only touch on what I've been able to skim from your post's, Did you end up opening over Easter ? if so did you advertise you would be open ? and advertise can mean any thing from small sign's on you tables 2 week's before announce to book early to a A frame out front of shop not full page newspaper ads ( be creative) 2. Do you value add your services i.e have a selection of wines to take home after the evening has finished or if mainly tourists souvenirs selection,I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs in your business but think outside the box a little,Have you had anyone come in at an invitation to sample your meals ? Go to phone book find a random person then send them a letter offering 2 free meals 2 free deserts and 2 free drinks at your establishment in exchange for a review (selection from house specials of course) and do this ever few month's,Don't ask friends as they will lie to you Randoms off the street, and have a list made out of what you want reviewed from parking to service atmosphere meals every thing. Your Job in short should be to expand your business and take your good staff along for the ride at higher wages for loyalty.

Well Lane, nice to talk with someone on the same page, as until recently, I spent 35 plus years in butchery, the last 23 of self employed.

I agree that insurance is a killer, as is all compliance costs as having been self employed since 89, I have seen many changes, some good, but most bad for small business. The worst of all being unfair dismissal, whereby they tagged all employers as thugs, and provided refuge to dud workers by way of making them all but unsackable.

The result of these laws has been the casualization of the the workforce, as many today, including brickies, are either casual, or on contract. Many large firm prefer contracts so that they can one, weed out the dead wood, then re hire the good workers and two, re evaluate the situation of labor availability prior to offering deals, as they recognize that some wages and conditions are brought about by an imbalance in the worker V demand situation at the time.

It's called, you push hard enough you will get a reaction.

As for brickies, I have heard of many earning up to $800 per day, albeit a few years ago.

Butchers are among the lowest paid trades people with a trade butcher earning less than $800 for a 38 hr week.

My solution for overtime rates is as follows.
All overtime worked, over and above the 38hr week should be paid TAX FREE at normal hourly rates.

This way the better worker gets the OT if they so choose, the employer is no worse off and the employer gets paid about the same.

The government shouldn't complain either because the additional money earned, tax free, will in most cases be spent, and GST collected on each and every dollar spent, because their GST free expenses have already been paid from their usual wage.

The present increasing tax scale is typical of governments double dipping on the tax system.

AN EXCElENt reply aussie
bUT DONT EXPECT TUBBERS TO REPLY
he only knows meat..he would never think of having a huge meat giveaway
and sell samples..special cuts..still you wrote an excellent reply/gold standard/well done

anyhow here is my current passion
no thats the past topic on the same topic..i needed to join to this one
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6275&page=0

we need to hear you repeat that at the other threAD
OR ELSE I MUST QUOTE YOU/POINT IS REPEAT IT OFTEN
thats the game..gems like that are so rare/they surface but briefly/ammoung all the other repeated same same[i was only going to post the link

UBBERS QUOTE..<<>.The result of these laws>>
IS ALWAYS THE RESULT OF INSIDERS REWRITING THEM

<<Resultant>.LAWS.. has been the visualization of the the workforce, as many today, including brickies, are either casual, or on contract.>>

CONTRACTED FOR SHORTER OR LONGER TERM
often to keep some oyt of the market due to exclusivity or other tricky franchised conditional clause

<<>.or Many large firm prefer contracts so that they can one, weed out the dead wood,..>>

contracts dont weed
they bind

take two
contracts are preferd...?..tie up talent/skill..or other skill under limited[exclusive]..licence[i own the sons so you cant sing]

<<>.[one] then re hire the good workers
and two,..re evaluate the situation of labor availability prior to offering deals,>>

ie con-tract[see i once had a house/land i sold
but the guy never wanted it/he just didn't want the other guy to have control of it

<<..as they recognize that some wages and conditions are brought about by an imbalance in the worker V demand situation at the time.>>

contracted to perform/to the letter of the contract
but no valid social contract via informed ..concent/exists.

<<..It's called, you push hard enough you will get a reaction.>>>

enough cops with guns shut up nearly everyone
sign here or go to jail/die for all we care/its us versus them

they always take the low hanging [un contracted ]..fruits
then in time they came for you..via the lie of person/that exists only within the jurisdiction of the act[only within the act/that defines the power..by statute limited

http://rss.infowars.com/20140421_Mon_Alex.mp3

Aussieboy, how can a ligit business paying triple time wages over Easter compete with one that pays cash?

As for taking home a bottle of wine, sorry, that's against the law here.

Here's an example of business.

Sales, 20,000 per week. Cost of goods, $5000, wages, $7000, running costs $4000, profit $4000. Nothing wrong with that.

Now over the Easter week, let's call that $35,000.

COG $8750, RC $6000 wages $23000, profit $(2750) loss! All because of wages being paid at triple time on public holidays.

Sure, a surcharge does make some difference, but when small businesses have to compete with the likes of pubs owned by say Wollies, whereby the pokies subsidize costs, they can't compete if they charge too larger surcharge.

Even a 15% surcharge over this period would mean the employer makes about $900 total profit for the week, less than ome quarter of a normal week, with all the extra stress and hastel.

That's why so many today say it's no longer worth it.

Plumber, electricians, office workers, mechanics, the list goes on for workers who should rightfully be paid penalty rates on PH, but the likes of tourism and hospitality are not such industries, with the exception of Good Friday and Christmas day.

Now if you don't believe my numbers, simply go out and buy a caffee/restaurant, as there are plenty for sale.

I am not disputing your numbers at all I did at the start of my post say the legal ones,Maybe you hit the nail on head too many cafe's the old supply vs demand you have to much supply, Now carry your argument through further so we drop penalties and drop wages, Who do you think comes into your cafe ? People with money other peoples workers It goes around and around,How do you think all those public servants losing their jobs will go where did they spend their money @ shops now they will be all on the dole no more cafe visits for them. How many retail sale people can now afford the goods they sell not many how many waitresses can afford to go to restaurants not many. Can you not see the downward spiral your thinking would take us, It would hurt your business and all other small businesses hard, Get ride of the shonky operators get supply vs demand equal and be creative this will lead you to success. I do agree tax needs reform i.e payroll and such also and multi-nationals and big business need to play the game fairly but whilst , Liberal governments continue to suckup to the big boys and sack taxation staff none of your problems will be solved no tax officers= no on to close down the shonks, bigboys=paying kickbacks and not paying tax= your further behind.

unlike aussi..i am disputing your math

<<Here's an example of business.

Sales, 20,000 per week.
Cost of goods, $5000,
wages, $7000, running costs $4000, profit $4000.

>>>YEP NUTHIN WRONG WITH THAT
SALES 20,000
MINUS 5,000+7,000+4000=16,000=4000

yep true blue/but then the racist...COMES OUT N YOU
AND THE MATH GPOES OUT THE DOOR

<<>.Now over the Easter week, let's call that $35,000.

GREAT..SALES 35,000
YES EXCELENT..minus same rent/costs=16,000

THATS A FOUR FOLD PROFFIT

BUT NOW LOOK AT HOW THE MATH CAN turn 16.000 BUCKS
INTO A 2 GRAND LOSS..no bonus people we made a 2,000/loss

but wait ya just said sales 35,000..[but left off the sales
then went did ya magic..so lets recheck the numbers

easter/gross 35,000
easter net 16,000

normal nett=4,000

but lets see how double pay [or some other emnployee ploy]..got that way

35,000
minus

<<>>COG $8750, RC $6000 wages $23000,>>
=<<<profit $(2750) loss!

HUH?
YA CONM\N ARTIST>..<<<All because of wages being paid at triple time on public holidays.

Sure, a surcharge does make some difference>>

OH WHO GIVES A FREAKING TOSS
SEE ya boss

OUG, at last a post I can sought of follow.

Now to that Easter week and the $35K. How I'm being racist has got me con fussed by the way.

Rent 'usually' stays the same, however energy costs increase as the more one cooks, the more energy is consumed, then there are outgoings such as garbage disposal that can increase.

COG definitely increase as you can't sell the same piece of fish twice and GROSS profit definitely increases.

So, out of the $35K, we take increased COG $6,000, increased RC $8750, which leaves gross profit of $20,250. A bit more than double. I have taken expenses out but shouldn't have, but it does make it easier.

To make it simple, I have arrived at the figure of $20,000 by simply dividing the week by 7, $2857 per day.

The additional $15,000 is on PH which is $2857 +$5000=$7857 x 3=$23571.

So, of the $35K, $23571 is on PH @200% loading, the, allowing for increased productivity is calculated at 80%, not 105% (3x35%) or, $18,975.

The remainder $11500 , taken during normal time wages @35%, or $4025.

So the gross profit was $20,250, ( less wages of $23000, the net loss is $250.