There are a few hand outs that I think need changing, so here are my suggestions.

Welfare.
All welfare payments should be paid by way of a debit card.

These debit cards can not be used to purchase excluded goods and or services (to be determined, a couple being cigs and grog, or gambling) which in turn will help curb the waste, as wasted welfare usually means kids missing out.

Welfare includes the dole, sole parent allowance, family payments, child support payments, but nit old age pensions, as most pensioners have paid their dues.

First home owners grant.
I think the grant should be set at $20K and be available to all first home buyers, however, the main change should be that it is a loan, not a gift.

The interest should be imposed by the government and collected by the councils, either monthly, quarterly, or annually via a levy on their rates and should be charged at say 1%, or, charged at 2.5% accumulative should the home owner choose not to pay annual payments.

The conditions should be,
1. The dwelling must remain as the principle place of residence and no income can be derived from the property.
2. No borrowings can be charged against the dwelling before the loan is repaid in full, with interest.
3. The property can not be sold without the loan being repaid in full including interest. A simple covenant can achieve this.

At least this way the grant can be reused many times over, rather than simply gifted to a selected few.

My primary focus is to make better use of tax payers dollars, as there is little doubt that we can continue along the path we are headed.

And no, I am not eligible for any grant.

Thought I would put that in before I get shot down.

SURE..debit..is what money is today..BUT*,,,govt is already too..big.a burden..[not a benificient good..but enslaved to bwankerrs

its not enough they TAX us to death
[thus the need to give SOME;select/elect/people 20,000..for state/council fees levies charges

NOW YOU*..WANT..URSURY.,.on top..
i got another idea

NO..GOVT FEES
no..govt tax
NO URSURY

govt issues its own..money..
set according to meeting THE/peoples need..[in coin][or..CREDIT*..card

beginning..new year
here is how..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15786&page=0#274098

So what would all of these gracious steps achieve.
Abbott is planning on downsizing the public service and Butch just added twice as many.

<<All welfare payments should be paid by way of a debit card.>>

Preventing welfare recipients from buying food in open markets where prices are lower, or buying 2nd-hand goods from friends.

If I were thus limited, I would go in front of a supermarket and offer people to do their food-shopping for them: pay for their food with my welfare debit card and receive cash from them when I hand them their shopping bags.

<<The interest should be imposed by the government and collected by the councils>>

Here is another revenue-raising improvement: make this loan compulsory and for a minimum of 30 years, so people must pay it back with interest to the council even if they don't need a loan. This should include people who buy or build their dog's first kennel and first-home buyers who try to cheat and falsely claim that they owned a home before would have their hands chopped or forced into hard-labour, building pyramids for the government.

Oh great idea, so how do you suggest i pay my rent to my private landlord who will only accept cash? will I be able to purchase the wheat for my chickens (that provide us with eggs) from the local farmer who will also only accept cash? This ridiculous idea is no better than the existing scheme that costs about 5000 dollars per recipient to manage - equally flawed and no doubt equally expensive.

I have a BETTER idea. Let us SCRAP the new paid maternity scheme that pays up to 75,000 dollars to selected women for having a baby (blatant discrimination). Let us also SCRAP the ridiculous superannuation scheme and associated benefits paid for life to previous MP's and Senators, most of whom walk out of parliament and into impressively paid work whilst also getting paid this superannuation. Also let us scrap the other welfare payments made to upper class citizens. ADDITIONALLY scrap methods and tax benefits paid to people who rent properties to the less fortunate at ridiculous rental prices.

Great idea rehctub, but I think we should include ALL welfare recipients...just to be fair.

Aged pensioners and disability pensions pull in most of the welfare payments, so they should be the first to be given debit cards and made to give up smokes, alcohol and fast foods cold turkey.

Just think of all the money this Government would save then...

I think that the first home buyer grant is a silly idea.
All it does is it gets added onto the price of the house.
Similar to the requirement to lend to couples on both incomes.
All that did was to double the amount of money in the housing market.

What happens in any market when the money in that market is doubled ?

However the debit card is a good idea and would require very few public
servants to administer the system.
The card account would be credited every month, or week, at virtually
zero cost.
Every card transaction is based on the bar code number and it would
be an easy programming change to prevent cigarettes etc to be charged
to the card and be a cash transaction or an ordinary credit card.

However, it could only be part of the pension, dole or whatever.
There are many other expenses newspapers, train & bus fares, farmers
markets etc etc that require cash.

Never the less a good idea, a bit similar to the US food stamps.

Suseonline,
Pensioners are not welfare recipients, they've worked for 45 or more years to get their pension.

tired, ever wondered why they want cash?

To avoid paying their fair share of taxes and, if everyone paid their fair share in the first place, we would have plenty to go around.

Don't you think.

Same goes for welfare, if the percentage that is wasted, wasn't wasted, then perhaps we could relieve the tax payer of some burden.

Unfortunately, having to catch the big fish, often means catching small ones as well.

...Pensioners are not welfare recipients, they've worked for 45 or more years to get their pension.
Yes Indi, I agree. Well in most cases anyway.

clubbers/wrote..,,<<..having to catch the big fish,
often means catching small ones as well...>>

yeah..how big..up to the size that dont..NEED,,the card?
by..the big fish..you mean..how big exactly..fry?..arnt even fish

but that depends on how much super top up..govt gave you tax free
the real*big fish..HAVE..ALREADY..banked their maximum 'top-up'..safe and sound

but your..slave/rate casual workers
well you..lot..are clubbers big fish..

sure your..free/govt..top-up was minimal..[but he hates you that much..[he has his full super..plus top-up..he/has his money safely invested..he loves..making rules for you..so you wont see he got 20 times more..than..you...LONG AGO..[how much govt debt..wennt to you?

but..it gives him something to do'..while
his serfs..rake in minimum wage..watch the poor,,not hiim

how much super top-up you BANKED*..oldman?

we should tax bank withdrawals..and share's in-come..not wages
wages arnt income..time we began making rules to tax you..limit you

like..you..love making FOR..others do
[its sic*]

I have a much better idea to save taxpayers money.

Government to return to the fundamentals for which it was set up. Stick to the knitting!

'Progressivism' is bigger government and increased state control, the Nanny State. In the US, parents are getting notes back from teachers from their checks of lunch box contents, rated against a bureaucratic scale of nutrition.

Lets go back to small government and we can get on with our lives and have more money in our pockets. It will also allow teachers, police and other necessary services to concentrate on what they are there for too. As a bonus, there will be more money available for disability pensioners and age pensioners, rather than the $$ being lost on the way to hordes of nags, minders, interferers, 'consultants' and the like.

If you start forcing people to use debit cards it will not take the greedy banks long to take a bigger cut when you use it.

Dear rehctub,

Why not stop giving tax breaks to large
multinational corporations and people with
super balances over $2 million, as well as those
who borrow to invest overseas. That might be
a good start. Then how about giving small
businesses the instant asset write-off and
not taking the axe to health services but
making polluters pay a pollution fine and
mining companies a higher share of taxes.
What's taken out of the land should be replaced
as compensation to the nation. If you burn rubbish
in your back yard - you are polluting and you shall
incur a fine so in all fairness other polluters
should also pay fines.

Then there's the Paid Parentlal Leave - which should
be assessed on income levels and not blindly given
to those whose incomes are excessive.

There are few complaints, when the government pays
out far more in "handouts" to the nonpoor than to the
poor - in forms ranging from all sorts of benefits
in one form or another. This fact generally escapes
attention because these benefits take the indirect form
of hidden subsidies or tax deductions rather than the
direct form of cash payments.

Individual, of course Pensioners who receive money to live on from Governments are welfare recipients.

All those who were previously on the 'dole', or similar, also go on to the aged pension after 65 don't they? Doesn't everyone get the same basic aged pension payment, no matter whether they were working before retirement or not?

If they are on a payment from Centrelink that is needed so they can pay for food and other basic costs of living, then they are on welfare payments.

Some small minded people are of the mindset that the Government 'owes them a living' because they paid taxes all their lives.

Rubbish! Those taxes paid for the infrastructure needed during their lifetime, or for future capital works projects, that Governments have built or supplied from the taxes. They certainly didn't save up all the tax money to pay for everyone to use in retirement.

Many people don't need the age pension, or only need part pensions to fund their retirement, but are they less deserving after also paying taxes all their lives?

They certainly didn't save up all the tax money to pay for everyone to use in retirement.
Suseonline,
Yes & no. Ideally people would accumulate sufficient during their working life but as I said ideally. In reality I agree that many do not put anything aside whilst more many get penalised by Governments for having too much. It's a no win situation because many simply don't earn enough to put anything aside & not every working person is a public servant.
There really is no incentive nor opportunity for lower income workers to plan for more than just the pension.

tired, yes rehctub seems to have completely forgotten about *rent*, a principal expense.
Many welfare recipients live in sharehouses and boarding houses, where the standard is cash only.

If six students are sharing a house, how can each of them "debit card" their share?
The lease is usually in one person's name and only they pay the landlord.
But their housemates can no longer give them the cash.

rectub, so who are these all-wise Inquisitors who'll decide which goods and services are "wasteful" (i.e. "sinful")?

Gambling may produce a windfall, getting them off welfare *for life* and starting a business that employs hundreds of others.

Spending half their payment on the pleasures of Big Eye prints and tin robots may be the only thing stopping someone committing suicide.
Are they "wasting" their money?

Can you buy beer/wine/spirits with a restaurant meal?
What about "prohibited by The Inquisition" goods on ebay?

What about out-of-print vintage books, records? No barcodes.

"ever wondered why they want cash? To avoid paying their fair share of taxes"

More presumptions of sinister intent.

All businesses have the legal right to accept cash, so *all* customers should have the equivalent right to pay cash. For anything!

My corner store charges a fee for every EFTPOS transaction and has a minimum spend.
You are now forcing people on very low incomes to buy more goods than they immediately need and pay a fee every time, when they could have just paid cash.

Yuyutsu, shopping valets. Great idea!
Yes, people will find ways to get around this.

Bazz "There are many other expenses newspapers, train & bus fares, farmers markets etc etc that require cash."

Parking meters! Laundromats! Photocopiers! Gumball machines! (ooh lollies, "sinful").

So why not just pay cash and let the recipient decide how to spend it.
You're not saving any money, if they still get the same total value.

Would you want your employer deciding how their staff spend their salary?
They're the ones with the authority to *pay* you.

Playboy magazine? Sorry, our respectable company cannot endorse that, barcode rejected!
Big Brother, here we come.

Suse I suppose a slip of a girl like you is too young to remember, but back in the day we paid a levy, like Medicare, for the old age pension.

Somewhere along the line it was incorporated into general taxation. We have still been paying that levy all our taxpaying years, just most no longer realise it.

Many things like this have been "incorporated" into general taxation. In the 60s the interest on your home loan was tax deductible. This was back when the interest on my home lone was 4.25%, but was incorporated into general deductions. That was of course before Keating got his hands on the levers of the economy, stuffed it up, & interest went to 17%.

Typical of government. Make you pay for something way in advance, waste the money in some undeserving area, then not want to give it to you, when it comes due.

Foxy, this with large amounts in super, are in that position due to contributions made though out their working life.

Besides, this is the very reason why I think any inheritance over half a million should be taxed.

As for instant write offs, forget that, remove the hurdles and red tape that makes it harder to employ people.

Employing people should be better rewarded than buying equipment to replace them.

As for mining, I think they not only do they pay their fair share, but they also create billions more in taxes from their support industries.

As fir being fined for burning rubbish in your back yard, you are not burring it for the benefit of others.

I have no problem with a pollution tax, but tax the user, not the producer, as they are producing only to meet our demands.

The carbon tax is little more than a permit to polute.

Abbotts paid perennial leave, A SHOCKER in my view and I hope it gets defeated.

It also proves that governments don't win elections with a mandate, because I voted for him, but hate this policy.

Suze......Some small minded people are of the mindset that the Government 'owes them a living' because they paid taxes all their lives.

I'm of the opinion that the more one pays in taxes, the higher their pension should be.

Yes Indi, take two people, same age, same income working for life.

One wastes everything, holidays, boats, cars etc etc, the other save wisely.

The wasteful one gets rewarded, while the wise one not only goes without a pension, but he/she also gets lumbered with supporting the wasteful one.

Go figure!

I call it, reward for effort.

Continued

Cont

Shock......If six students are sharing a house, how can each of them "debit card" their share?

Simple, EFTPOS or direct debit, as most agents are set up for that.

Now if you want to pay cash to avoid taxes, than that's your choice.

......rectub, so who are these all-wise Inquisitors who'll decide which goods and services are "wasteful" (i.e. "sinful")?

Alcohol, cigs and gambling.

.....Gambling may produce a windfall, getting them off welfare *for life* and starting a business that employs hundreds of others.

Yep, but the stats suggest otherwise. Besides, do you think it's responsible to gamble with others money, because after all, welfare is a gift from the tax payer, not a given right, dont you think.

....Are they "wasting" their money?

Again, it's not their money. Besides, are they wasting their share, or the kids.

In other words, if they loose, do they go hungry, or the kids.

....Can you buy beer/wine/spirits with a restaurant meal?
No, because Mcdonnalds does not sell them.

Now if you can afford better on the dole, then perhaps you are over paid!

.....All businesses have the legal right to accept cash, so *all* customers should have the equivalent right to pay cash. For anything!

Yes, and the answer is simple, GO AND EARN IT.

Besides, businesses will either adapt, or go out of business.

Cont

....

Comt....My corner store charges a fee for every EFTPOS transaction and has a minimum spend.
You are now forcing people on very low incomes to buy more goods than they immediately need and pay a fee every time, when they could have just paid cash.

Yes, I agree. But you can't win it all.

....So why not just pay cash and let the recipient decide how to spend it.
You're not saving any money, if they still get the same total value.

Because a percentage of that money is for the children, and it's the children that usually miss out when gigs, grog and gambling form part of the weekly spend.

....Would you want your employer deciding how their staff spend their salary?
They're the ones with the authority to *pay* you.

Different, as they have earned this.

You have to remember, I am talking about welfare, not earnings.

Now perhaps we could see a limited amount of cash withdrawal each payment cycle.

Say $40. This should pay the train fair and odd corner store purchase.

OUG, you have to remember that we are all provided with an equal opportunity to fail.

Hasbeen, we live in a unsidedown world don't we, as the more you contribute, the less you get rewarded.

Figure that one out.

The reality is we can't continue to support every swinging dick, plus those who illegally choose to make this their home, at our expense.

Something has to give and we tax payers are the easiest target.

Ideally the debit card would not be needed.
However no end of Docs people and school teachers will tell you about
the kids that come to school hungry and their parents smoking like
chimneys.
That is why the old adage "Don't let government interfere with my rights." falls apart.

There really are times when interference is necessary.

Rectub:

I have noticed over years now that many, many businesses
issue a receipt for payment of services on a official-looking
piece of paper ejected from an EFTPOS machine or electronic
Cash Register.

Invariably the receipt fades rapidly and becomes illegible
after a few weeks.

The implications of this can be disastrous:

Loss of proof of purchase (should it be neccesary to claim on Warranty)

Difficulty in reconciling expenditure, balanced against personal
or business bank account.

Worst for us all (at least those NOT in business and
utilizing the issuing of receipts), is that the same illegibility
is occurring in the keeping of physical receipts by business,
thus leaving open the opportunity by business to "fudge" their
own Income and turnover figures, creating a loss of Income
Revenue at Tax time!

Another good one is: "Would you like a receipt?"

These are sopme of the obvious areas that Government should be
looking at before bastardizing the Old Age Pensioners ( who are
as usual the least equipped to fight back!)

Crackcup, the paper you refer to is 'thermal paper' whereby the info is burned in, not printed.

I share your frustration, but the tax depts simple solution is to copy each receipt for your records.

More red tape.

As for businesses receipts fading, again it's our responsibility to make a copy.

As for fudging it, I suspect the tiny amount who do this are not worth the effort to chase, however they would get caught if audited.

Has no one read Hockey's message ?
It is in there if you want to think about it.

He has a few things wrong such as thinking he can increase growth, but
he is not on his own there.

No the real message is;

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY !

Outlawing compound interest would help poor people no end, those pay day loan sharks and pawn brokers are as much of a blight on poor communities as are poker machines. If you're going to give people debit cards then you have to exclude any goods that can be transferred to cash, what's to stop someone buying a TV or computer from Aldi with part of their dole then pawning it or selling it on e-bay for walking around money?

Fair point Jay, but I guess you can't legislate against stupidity, can you.

No system is perfect, and what you say adds strength to the case for food stamps

Perhaps the crux of this is the viability of tracking purchases against a particular debit card. As a customer I get the impression the payment is a separate process to scanning the item.

Having not so long ago having had the experience of paying a very high rate of child support little of which appeared to be being spent on my son I'd very much like to see any moneys paid in child support beyond a standard amount to cover the basics audited in some way or another. Eg an amount paid directly as a contribution towards combined expenses (housing, groceries, electricity, fuel etc) and for any money paid to cover expenses specifically for the child and not part of combined expenses to be accounted for.

R0bert

Yes Robert, a real problem area and one that I can happily say does not directly effect me.

One though I had about child support, was for the payee to pay it to Medicare.

Once a reciept was presented to Medicare, the funds could be reimbursed for approved purchases.

The other option would be to go to the seller and request an invoice, this invoice once presented to Medicare would see a purchase order given to the purchaser, who then takes that to the seller.

Complicated, but then again, most gripes with child support are that the funds don't go to the child.

This would address this in some way.

While the blind leeding the blind, in knowing our species, and I know what your going to say, “evolution don’t tell us what to do, cause we are just fine with-in the time-line of 7.7 billion people and our systems will handle it fine”……oh really. We have spent thousands of hours analysing and collecting data with the help of the collective, and with-in evolutionary terms and conditions, which brings us up to date with what were dealing with. Now back to the topic……..

Planet3

rehctub
"Shock......If six students are sharing a house, how can each of them "debit card" their share?

Simple, EFTPOS or direct debit, as most agents are set up for that."

But the lease is *not* in their name.
They have no contract with the agent!

The people in the house may change frequently. The landlord may not even know who they are.
They only know who signed the lease, and only they are legally responsible for the rent.

"Alcohol, cigs and gambling."

That's it? What about pornography, prostitutes, nudist camp holidays, abortions, sex toys? Many would argue the controversial nature of many products/services deems them unacceptable.

There will simply be a black market develop in any prohibited goods.
Look at how successful banning recreational drugs has been.

You get your "dealer" to buy your lotto tickets and beer, then pay them by direct debit ("gifts" wouldn't be banned, no?) or buy their groceries/etc.

"Yep, but the stats suggest otherwise."

Tell all the people who've won large sums gambling about the "odds" and watch as they buckle in stitches laughing at you.

"do you think it's responsible to gamble with others money"

It's not "others" money. It's paid to a named "legal person" (whatever form the payment comes in). It is legally their property.

Why so intent on stripping rights from these people, rights any other citizen has. They are not criminals!
I cannot remember anyone ever defining citizens as "people who work".
They already have no freedom of movement (might move to an area of "lower employment prospects", shudder!)

"....Can you buy beer/wine/spirits with a restaurant meal?
No, because Mcdonnalds does not sell them."

Maccas? Are you kidding me? Your elitism is showing.
There are thousands of restaurants that sell alcohol with meals. Answer the question.

"Besides, businesses will either adapt, or go out of business."

So now your punishing businesses too (aren't they your heroes?) with another layer of onerous costs.
*All* have to have EFPTOS.
*All* have to have computerised systems that can recognise when a welfare card is used to attempt to buy prohibited goods.

Every seller could be legally liable if they sell prohibited goods on welfare cards.
So they must all now use EFTPOS to prove no illegal transactions took place.

How are people having a garage sale supposed to get EFTPOS terminals and barcode databases?
And every market stall.

Let's go to the funfair, kids.
Entry, EFTPOS, Every ride, EFTPOS, Every food stall, EFTPOS, Every game, EFTPOS.
Cigarette vendor? Sorry, this item has been prohibited by Centrelink.
Every transaction, $1 fee. Have a nice day.

"Because a percentage of that money is for the children"

Actually two parents on welfare get *less* than two single people. Only single parents get a bit more.
Where's the "childrens" money?

Why should children be an issue? What happened to your "take responsibility for your own life" routine?

If children are neglected, you call DOCS.

"Different, as they have earned this."

As an employee of Respectable Company Australia Inc.

Employers already have self-defined rules about what staff can and cannot do.
People have been fired for things they did outside work, in their "private" life.

You're setting a *precedent* for employer-controlled spending restrictions.
It's not "your" money, it's theirs, generated by their spending millions on product development and marketing.

So if you want to work at RespCom, you cannot smoke, drink or gamble.
We have a reputation, you know.

"we could see a limited amount of cash withdrawal each payment cycle."

So they could still buy the prohibited goods anyway.
What a headache for nothing!

"Something has to give"

Why is welfare always the first target, rather than all the truly "wasteful" spending of governments?

Welfare keeps people alive and out of prison.
Funding Chinese New Year festivals does what?

Shock.....But the lease is *not* in their name.
They have no contract with the agent!

Pay the person who's name the lease is in and they pass on the rent.

Or, set up a DD with the agent, because one can pay rent without being on the lease, unless of cause you're talking about an illegal lease.

...That's it? What about pornography, prostitutes, nudist camp holidays, abortions, sex toys? Many would argue the controversial nature of many products/services deems them unacceptable.

Now you're grasping at straws, besides, the expenditure on these would be minuscule in comparison to gigs, Griggs and gambling, don't you think.

....There will simply be a black market develop in any prohibited goods.

Yes, you're right, but we can't legislate against stupidity, can we.

....It's not "others" money. It's paid to a named "legal person" (whatever form the payment comes in). It is legally their property.

I disagree as in my view welfare is a privilege, not a right, besides, it's also there as a hand up, not a hand out and, the payee, the tax payer, has a right to know their taxes are not being deliberately wasted, especially when kids miss out on their share.

....Why so intent on stripping rights from these people, rights any other citizen has. They are not criminals!
I cannot remember anyone ever defining citizens as "people who work".
Because they are (NOT ALL OF THE) depriving children of their intended assistance.

As for restaurants, I seriously doubt one on welfare can afford a rest meal, if they can, perhaps their not under paid in the first place.

Good talking with you.

hang/on..clubman..you running?

mate..the GAME IS DIVIDE..and con*
you have fine ideas..BUT..we are doing..what YOU..yourself say..to you*..[under the..give/them enough rope..principle]

SOGREAT THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION
the poor wilbe paid..in cash/coin
the rich..willlive by debit card..[cause they owe..NOT OWN*]

WHAT..they are trying to..get us angry
its called divide and con*queer.them/poor former middle class..and us mega rich..trust fund holders..[get it?]..they want..what you thought..you had

but thenthe bail-in..thennthe hyper inflation..kicked in[and later yopuhold the same dollars but cant buy a postage stamp

see the weimar/republic
or the other hyprer inflated MIDDLE/class..egos..bought down before and since

dont be divided*
we NEED each..other

http://rss.infowars.com/20131124_Sun_Alex.mp3
the beginning..explains the war..between the baddies/the baddies
the middle explains how federal..police are corrupting local police...and how they..assaulted alex..by hurting a child

[they will do much the same..to govt
[recall..goerge/blair/john..REALLY believed satans spin

and note..please..the big ending..is important too
perhaps more..try to focus..on what is said

thats what i like about files..you can rewind..to make sure
thats all tony needs do..check/confirm..dont act fast..not furious

anyhow the lions lay..with thee sheep?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=0

i finally have a spare post
if you want tofinish..the topic at..link..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

as well as tie the two*
it would be replied quicker

dear indy..have you ever heard of..jury nullification
http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/how-jury-nullification-accelerates-drug.html

basically..THE JUDGE..cedes his duty..to..a jury..OF....PEERS
that judge NOT ONLY..the 'guilt or innocence..BUT THE LAW*

What’s at Stake?

What is at stake is huge. You can save reputations. You can save relationships. You can save people’s livelihood or property. You can save their educations, because they might not be able to get a student loan if convicted. You can save their freedom, and you can in fact save their life.

(Even if it’s not a death penalty case people get killed in prison.) You cannot be required to check your conscience at the courthouse door. No victim means no crime.

If there is no victim, then the law is wrong.
The person is not guilty.

ditto taking oath..[forbidden..in..the bible][matt 5;33-37/23;16-25/james5;9-12.]

now this drug law..is statute law..[statute law..ONLY regulates artificial..persons[when govt talk about giving 'rights'..they are ALL..WAYS..talking about corporate 'persons'[ie person..NLY via act]

thus the drug laws police morals..not crime
[see crime [for the living]..is only contract[ie civil law]
or criminal..[ie were YOU can be proved..to have hurt other[or dont obey promise

BOTH..REQUIRE the choice..of trial; by jury

but statute law..because it can..ONLY..judge 'person'[ie Incorporated LIMITED lie-abilty..person-hood..CAN ONLY APPLY..to/the dead

like road law=equals much.the same..THEY ONLY CAN CONTROL..that they created..[ie your license=the person;..but NOT YOU*..only the marriage certificate[contract]..not you

"Pay the person who's name the lease is in and they pass on the rent."

How? You can't withdraw more than $40 cash!

Are you saying there's no limit on bank transfers?
Then you just transfer to a not-on-welfare housemate to buy your smokes and grog as well as pay your rent, or they withdraw cash and hand it back to you.

The agent may not want separate payment for six tenants.
It complicates their own record-keeping/debt recovery.

"Now you're grasping at straws"

I'm sure there are many taxpayers who would object to their taxes being used to buy "adult" goods/services.
You set a precedent for their lobbying to expand the restrictions.

"the tax payer, has a right to know their taxes are not being deliberately wasted"

But how do you know how much people are spending?
They may only buy cigarettes once a week, a bottle of wine once a month and only gamble when there's a really huge jackpot (maybe 3 times a year).

"depriving children of their intended assistance."

What of all those without children?
There are other avenues to deal with neglect.

"I seriously doubt one on welfare can afford a rest meal"

There's restaurants at all scales of affordability.
You still haven't answered the question.
Joe Blow saves for months to take his girlfriend to dinner.
Can he buy drinks or not?

You are like a doctor prescribing a medicine, but just doesn't want to know about the side effects. Bad doctor!

You ignore the ripple effect throughout the economy, on other consumers and sellers.

Sellers would no doubt face a hefty fine ($50,000?) if they conduct forbidden transactions.

Firstly, this requires a new layer of business surveillance by government (More bureaucrats. "Wasteful"?).

Secondly, to protect themselves, businesses will have to change the way they transact with ALL customers to cover their own arse.

EFTPOS will become compulsory for ALL customers for ALL transactions in ALL businesses, so there's a record to show the Inquisitors.

Paying with cash will become impossible.
Selling without EFTPOS will be impossible.

All because of a few drunks on welfare.

Yes well, I guess the other alternative would be to find a job hey!

As for buying a drink at a restaurant, well, I doubt that would be a wasteful event.

You can place all the hurdles under the sun in the way if you wish, or, you can acknowledge that we have a real problem and try to find a solution.

We are all capable of hiding our heads in the sand.

Butch i reckon you are a bad as those who tap phone calls and intercept emails. You want someone to look over you. A nanny state approach.

rehctub "buying a drink at a restaurant, well, I doubt that would be a wasteful event"

So if you ignore the restrictions under certain circumstances, you open a loophole that allows the purchase of the goods anyway.

Suddenly lots of different businesses are offering restricted goods as part of an inconspicuous "package deal" combined with acceptable products.

"you can acknowledge that we have a real problem and try to find a solution."

Well, that just it.
There is no "real problem".

If you consider certain behaviours/addictions/compulsions a problem, then you deal with the actual problem, not punish all welfare recipients because of a few indulgent people.

"We are all capable of hiding our heads in the sand."

Yes, you are.
You think you can contain the impact to just the factors you want to affect, and ignore the unintended consequences on *all* customers and *all* businesses.

569 "A nanny state approach."

Exactly. An army of bureaucrats would result.
And he's supposedly concerned about "waste"!
Papers please.

some/changes
a hungry child..can learn/thus cant earn..thus becomes an angry child

govt is there..for those who cant learn
but the rich/fat master controllers must see.the light of day
one big stick..cant drive ,,their own..ignorance's away

i will have more to say..but feel im -saying it all-ready
why cast pearl before swine..[im awaiting a sign]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

why finish..revealing..that only..mens ignorance=concealing
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15820&page=0

i got....my own problems
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15840&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15844&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6153&page=0

and dont get me started ..on/the worlds problems
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15664&page=0

but we..keep our problems separate
just as we must join-our solutions..together

athiests here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6098&page=0#176065

dreamers here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0#177801

work here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

pope stuff
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6119&page=0

in-flow[info]..here.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/node
here
http://xml.nfowars.net/Alex.rss
or just here[everywhere]..my guides will decide

ok enough stuff/too much..stuff..to even..reply[in ten posts per day
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/index-articles.asp
thank god for 'general'..as generally 20 posts per day..is heaps
but come..that fine/day..we need more?

but for want of a horse/shoe-nail..was the war lost
its all..of us or nuthin..but some are content..at least clubber..can see solutions[even if only re the wrong problem]

he sees nuthin wrong..with..giving BIG miners//BIG farmeers..BIG pharma HUGE corperate welfare..[tax free fuel/subsidized mediSIN...EVER treating symptom..BUT proffitable..never curing the dis-ease

but only..OFFICIATE..the duty..on the mug working slob[or his rejected/.imperfect..[un parented dole bludging mongrel kids

his active/solution'-based/mind should
could..be..SHOULD BE*..on/the..real-issues

Back to talking in riddles again OUG.

Sorry mate, too much effort for me to read your posts.

Shock, if just one child gets to have three decent meals a day, that well worth placing a small inconvenience on welfare recipients, as I am a firm believer that if you are one welfare, it's a privilege, not a given right, unless of cause you are an exception, and there are a few.

you can..lead a whorse..till..you get hoarse
but you cant make a man think..im begging for your help

silly boy..take your attitude
and reply..this thread..[we...built it..
now..what..if..no one comes?]

judgment day proper..is scedualed..for jan
but we..bought some time..its now after the exodus

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

if you REALLY want change and continuance
it now*needs PASSIONATE appeal..as much as clarification

the watchers watch..the waiters await
the doers do..[i thought you a real-doer]
people need to vote with their COMPASSION*..to end the con*passion.

no more heroes..your a BELOvED child of the fathe
he has hels back..because he cant teach..you when your minds numb with fear..your fearless?

prove it
lets see the thread go..virul..wellbefore x,mass
the worlds controllers[and that dont include you]..are endangering you your wealth/your health and your loved ones..if any][im trying todis-spel..the spell[i dopnt want to yell..i need compasion

is this how we respect our freedom
by locking away free speakers?

many are called/..but you chose yourself
are you a big man..or a smallone?

clear enough..oh..son..of the sun?

the bets in/the kitty
now do thy best*..repost the page..or page link hard
make it the to google link..of all time

the game change..has only..just begun

i must go calm down
http://rss.infowars.com/20131218_Wed_Alex.mp3
but dont you listen to it..it might make you TOO..angry

rehctub "if just one child gets to have three decent meals a day"

So this is your real concern, not people smoking, drinking or gambling.

So why apply the restrictions on *every* recipient?

Each person registered for welfare must state if they have dependent children.

Those that do could have a certain amount earmarked for children's meals.
They could be issued as vouchers or a debit card, only redeemable for food/drinks by the *child* themselves, at school or other vendors.

The thing is, it's cheaper to make meals for kids than buy them.
So those parents who do take care of them are disadvantaged, as the vouchers/cards cannot be used to buy the weekly groceries, only commercially prepared meals.

Afterthought: Obviously the voucher/card could only be issued to a child of school age and mentally competent.

If not, the card could be used by the parent, but again *only* for food purchases.

And this only applies to *parents* on welfare, not everyone.

the al-chemical..concoctions some call'food;..is the bigger crime
does woolies sell sweets?[or will woolies say.. my computer says yout can have these three things

ps there is now a 'service charge'..for putting them back onto our suppliers shelves[you should well/be aware clubber..that shelf space is rented..that simply buying many products..means the supplier who rents the shelf gets paid..only after its sold..[not upfront]

you would also know one in four computers is about
if you listen[ed] to alex jones you would know these things

you havnt joined me on..the snowden speech
so clearly..your like him..not the nor*mal..concerned for other..you/think you are.

now your suggested 'changes'have been exposed as insanely costly
and hugely costly[even if your 'on'the list..whats ya next great idea

pay rent straight from their dole checks to..some off shore investment landlordwhore?[rent is the biggest killer[when most the dole check..goes on rent..MANY KIDS GO HUNGRY..or homel;ess

but get homeless you got no/address too get the dole
clubman..govt listens to mugs like you[just to shut you up]
thats why only a pittance of the budget goes to..dole/pensioons

but why even reply to a prog-rammed/-bot
as long as you arnt angry..i know you havnt listend to/what alex says

merry hexmass
something to wake you-up..
http://xml.nfowars.net/Alex.rss..pick any day..at random
say your birthday..load the 'show'..and listen..to the first 3 minutes

or use the slide bar for a random search
every place you 'stop'..will reveal more things to

why..im worried for your soul..is ..you havt got one
your not in the same league as the iceman
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/wsl/wsl11.htm

so your hell wont be as interesting as his..WAS*
[the iceman..cometh..[and he is attracted..to thinking such as yours]but wont take over your mind..one of his minions all/ready..has this

but..just one repentant tear..can
set you back onto the path..of freedom
[wrong use..he has no path johan..he simply hasnt known ..real love for anything/but money/power possesion]

?
man..or mouse?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6152&page=0

peace..or war?
?

denote..vote now*
*