"Don't make another Game Council: Greens
8:39pm October 15, 2013

Legislation to abolish the controversial Game Council will only create a new group dominated by hunters, the NSW Greens argue."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/10/15/18/52/don-t-make-another-game-council-greens

The Greens see their 'victory' slipping away in the back-wash of practical politics; but what of our native animals that suffer the ravages of introduced feral predators?

The following link may be of some interest:

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/ferals/

This link sheds some light on the subject:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-05/nrn-game-council-gone/4800282

I don't think David and Mehreen will mind if I post the full statement about the vote last night.

Game Council finally abolished with crucial Greens support
by David

After almost a decade of mismanagement and the wasteful taxpayer-funded promotion of recreational hunting in NSW, the Parliament voted this evening to finally abolish the Game Council.

The Greens NSW have long campaigned for the abolition of the Game Council and today were proud to deliver the crucial five votes in the NSW Upper House to deliver that outcome.

120614 Hunting in Parks Rally 006 (600dpi)Greens MP and Firearms Spokesperson David Shoebridge said:

“This vote tonight was an important blow to the developing gun and hunting culture in NSW.

“The Government was pushed by the community of NSW, with the support of the Greens, into abolishing the pro-gun Game Council and tonight’s vote finally achieved that.

“While the Greens gave the crucial votes in support of the government to abolish the Game Council, the Labor opposition and Shooters MPs continued to vote in support of the discredited pro-hunter body.

“Today we also tabled a petition with more than 6,000 signatures from people from across this state indicating their opposition to the Game Council and recreational hunting on public land.

“We will continue to campaign with the thousands of supporters across the State for safe, humane and effective feral animal control and against the bloodsports culture of the gun lobby.

Greens MP and Environment Spokesperson, Dr Mehreen Faruqi said:

“This bill was far from perfect, including provisions that continue to promote hunting of ‘game animals’, failing to pick up animal welfare concerns and creating a new hunter advisory body.

“The community in NSW has made it known that it opposes the kind of reckless unsupervised hunting that was promoted by the Game Council and does nothing for feral animal control.

“However the end of the Game Council is a significant achievement which will work to make NSW a safer place,” Dr Faruqi said.
David | October 16, 2013 at 9:47pm

David Sandalplank said
"....We will continue to campaign with the thousands of supporters across the State for safe, humane and effective feral animal control and against the bloodsports culture of the gun lobby...."

Just how do they propose to do that, when it is well known that shooting is the most humane way of control?

What's humane about "reckless unsupervised hunting
that does nothing for feral animal control?"

My son has a gun license, I understand it is for vermin control or something in the bush. He was telling me that when he went for his license the gun shop owner who conducts the test (seems every one passes) was saying that for $25,000 you can shoot off to Africa and there you can shoot an elephant, a lesser fee for other animals, and this was from the bloke handing out the licenses. I wounder what these great white hunters charge for a lion or tiger, can any of gun lobby help out with that one.

I say yes to gun licences for feral animal control, but no to any other form of hunting by guns.

How about you Is Mise?
Is this apparent concern for native wildlife just a front for the push to open all national parks for gun owners to play cowboys and Indians, or not?

Where is the best area for Billboard advertising?

Hay, lastbillboard, bend over and I'll show you with the fat end of your cue stick.

Is Mise, David Sandalplank, not even funny. Your just peed off because I said your Boyle got busted. We had to lance Boyle because he was hanging around like a hemorrhoid with that pair from the Shooters and Hooter Party Tweedledum and Tweedleevendummer. Now if you want some target practice at a couple of feral wombats, call into Macquarie Street with your water pistol when the Shooters and Hooters are in town, you can't miss, they are both the size of a rhinoceros.

Paul, I thought that you appreciated humour?

'Sandalplank' is a much lesser 'Shoebridge', not quite all there as a shoe, sometimes rather inadequate in fact and a rather dangerous bridge; as you know him well you might ask him just what the Greens envision as a humane way of feral animal control and, while you're at it, ask him why we have feral animals.

Haven't the Greens launched their control programmes yet, or are they to busy trying to control Lee Rhiannon and the chubby girl who cries?

What is wrong with these people, except perhaps that they exist.

These idiots want humane feral animal control. From what I have seen that is having someone with a gun, very expensively flying around in a helicopter shooting animals. This ALWAYS results in many seriously wounded animals dying slowly, as there is no one on the ground cleaning up.

What a typical result of any green involvement in anything, another catastrophe.

I have eaten now wild cattle, shot in national parks, that were until recently pastoral leases. You do have to be careful these days, as brucellosis is speeding in these uncontrolled uncared for cattle. Of course this is what gets up the nose of clowns like Paul. He hates the idea of anyone making use of anything in a national park. Better they die in pain, & rot, than anyone eats them.

I have not eaten any pigs shot in the same places, as they are so full of TB no sensible person would touch them without rubber gloves.

The disease building up in the parks is a real danger. Many added by that fool Goss have never even been visited, let alone assessed. The parks people could never control the numbers, they don't have the resources. They are even closing off some parks previously developed for tourist use, due to lack of maintenance staff.

What we have is feral enclaves, full of vermin, of no use to us or Oz wild life, with the idiots wanting more of the things, but refusing free help from competent people, to clean them up.

Green garbage. The stupidity of these people knows no bounds.

National parks rangers and the culling contractors associated with them have a vested interest in swinging from the taxpayer's teat.

It is astounding that claimed animal protectionists and the lunar Greens would prefer and promote the use of the fearful poison 1080 above the selective humane culling of certified "R" licensed shooters. While there are circumstances where 1080 might be the only realistic alternative, it should be limited,

1080 poison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yJSvAe8SXw

As for the effectiveness of rangers and of closing off national parks, in the relatively short time that has been policy the bush reserves have been over-run by feral animals and exotic weeds. The dangerous, wild dog packs that are now common along (say) the north coast of NSW breed prolifically in national parks.

The lunar Greens argue that feral pest animals such as foxes should now be regarded as part of Australia's fauna. So too the exotic weeds?

Oh I see OTB and Hasbeen, you guys know more about this problem than all the National Parks officials and rangers then?

Are you suggesting these people who are paid to do these jobs have a hidden agenda where they want feral animals to multiply, and they want the extinction of our native animals?
And they don't know the best way to cull animals, but you do?
Yeah right...

Take a drive four wheels one, in any forest in the north of NSW.
Not the rev and roar blasting type, but a get it done low range slow and observing drive.
quietly and the feril animals will be seen, 6 or 8 cats, killers of more natives than any other.
Foxes are there but you are unlikely to see them.
National Parks and Wildlife, in the area I served, pays crews overtime, to shoot rabbits, near well used beaches ,on weekends.
If we do not kill cats and dogs in our forest we soon will have few native animals and birds.

And they don't know the best way to cull animals, but you do?
Suseonline,
Correct ! You should see the equipment the Rangers on Cape York get to play with at our expense & their bureaucratic minders who have a ball tearing around the bush also at our expense, earning travel allowances etc. whilst the feral animals multiply at a great rate. It's all a bit of a show with the added benefit of having a ball at our expense. Nothing more nothing less. If the authorities really wanted to clear feral animals then they'd engage the Army not some air conditioned office bureaucrats.

I just went looking for the Greens' way of eradicating those feral animals that harm our native species; all that I found was pious waffle that involved spending vast amounts of public money.

Perhaps I got off the track; could someone, more familiar with the Greens, kindly direct me to where I can find out their ideas/policy on the actual control of ferals?

Did anyone see Adam Bandt's Twitter where he trying to make political mileage out of the NSW bushfires?

https://twitter.com/AdamBandt/status/390719983786811392

Bandt has taken advantage of the threat and devastation to score a political point against Abbott.

It is absolutely disgusting that anyone would be so opportunist and crass as to score points out of the loss and suffering of his fellow Aussies and the damage wrought to property and the bush.

A very poor show indeed. No scruples at all.

Suse, haven't you realised by now that OTB and Hasbeen are the Einstein's of this forum? That's Fred Einstein Albert's dim witted brother. They both pontificate on all manner of subjects, from World finance to feral chickens.
Hasbeen said "These idiots want humane feral animal control." No, only after you have had the pleasure of pocking out their eyes first. Of course we want humane treatment of all animals, even the feral ones.
"I have eaten now wild cattle" did you do that in some ritualistic fashion? Hasbeen, if you were to eat all those cows that would solve 3 problems for us all at once,feral cattle, brucellosis and hasbeen. "I have not eaten any pigs" Are you an asylum seeking Muslim? Have you eaten any cane toads? I understand you are from the Deep, Deep, North ain't they a part of your staple diet up that way?
Is Mise okay 'Sandalplank' is a much lesser 'Shoebridge' okay a bit of sophisticated humor there from you old bean. You asked "why we have feral animals." Because humans brought them to this country and either released them, or they escaped and not having natural predictors they multiplied.
"If the authorities really wanted to clear feral animals then they'd engage the Army not some air conditioned office bureaucrats." Indi, could we not utilise the inmates from your Gomer Pyle Memorial Boot Camp for the job, all 2 million of them? Just arm them with AK47's and release them all over Australia, starting with Toorak Melbourne and Vaucluse in Sydney, plenty of feral conserves in those parts, clean up the joint in no time.

Paul1405,
Your mentality is beyond logical description. Your perception pf all things normal is simply de-railed. Do you actually read what you write ? We even have a thread discussing about offensive posts. Your posts are offensive as you do nothing but put crap on anyone who is not an ignorant academic do-gooder. By all means disagree but your slants on anything sensible & resembling normal are just straight forward offensive.

See < http://www.news.com.au/national-news/greens-mp-adam-bandt-tries-to-make-political-mileage-out-of-fires/story-fncynjr2-1226741900565 > for more of this Green fool's dribble.
Now more people will see Brandt for the oxygen waster that he is.

"clowns like Paul" "These idiots" "ignorant academic do-gooder" not offensive Indi. I see your notion for deploying the army to undertake feral animal eradication as being non practical and non workable. Its not the function of the armed forces to do this. Can you explain how it would be done by the army?
Is Mise" for more of this Green fool's dribble.
"Now more people will see Brandt for the oxygen waster that he is."
Adam Bandt was making a valid point, for the short shortsightedness of Abbott, who denies climate change for no other reason than it will cause loss of profits to the big polluters, if we accept that from the likes of Abbott we will have to accept the reality of what climate change has and will bring. I can see that the conservatives will never accept the wrongs that their policies will inflict on society.

Paul, don't worry, I am well aware of our resident experts on all matters:).

Individual, you really do have a problem with people who have studied further than grade 2, and those who want to do good in society don't you?

I don't want ignorant idiots and nasty people running our society, even if you do.

It is always going to be a difficult ask to manage feral and native animals in Australia because of the sheer numbers of ferals, and huge amount of land.
I don't profess to know all the answers, but I do know that getting all the trigger happy army blokes racing round the countryside blowing up the animals is not one of them. Lol.

Goodness me Paul, stop being silly, it does your cause no good at all.

It would be very practical to give the job to the army.
They have the man power, the trained weapons users, the communications
to control their movements safely, logistical support etc etc.

It is a very severe problem and almost anything should be tried.

Re the army for ferals. Some years ago 6 feral pigs (Marked) were dropped in an out back area. The army had surrounded ten square miles where they were dropped in the middle. The army got 4 of them lol. This is not a criticism as this is not what the army trains for. I am all in favour of shooters knocking off feral animals in National Parks. They should pay for that priviledge and the money used for traps that can capture, recognise and then kill the ferals. It can be done online with volunteers with a bit of imagination.

I would definitely not eat wild pigs.
They are susceptible to parasites.
This is why the Jews and Moslems do not eat them.
They have never received the news that the Chinese fixed that problem
more than 2300 years ago, but then that probably explains a lot about them. the Moslems that is.

JBowyer, "They should pay for that priviledge"

They already do, through licences and other fees.

Over and above that contribution to State government coffers, the return on investment of public dollars in running the Games Council was returned around two-fold if my memory serves me right concerning a statement I saw. That was using the formula provided by government. However any return on public money spent is a windfall for government and the taxpayer whose money it was in the first place. The numbers can be sourced from government.

Would you like to provide some numbers of the full costs of national parks rangers and contract cullers? The taxpayer forks out those millions annually. Other numbers that can be sourced from government.

On top of that is the money spent by "R" certified and licensed (public) hunters in country towns which, given there were probably more than three quarters of a million hunting days of R licensed hunters (incident free, so much for the claims of risk to public safety!), would have been a significant contribution to the economies of country towns.

The extra income would have been very welcome to country businesses indeed, particularly to accommodation providers in the lean months.

I wonder if The Hon Barry O'Farrell, MP, Premier of NSW took any of those considerations into account? Probably not. The Greens couldn't care about country people and the country businesses that are dying, but country people sure do. It is something that country newspapers could easily research through questions of the responsible minister and Premier O'Farrell.

Individual, you really do have a problem with people who have studied further than grade 2, and those who want to do good in society don't you?
Suseonline,
If they stayed out of our hair I wouldn't have a problem but they don't & constantly interfere & ruin everything that normal people achieve & that's why I have a problem with those pseudo intellectuals. You are unfair in the extreme, indeed it borders on insult to liken australian Uni graduates to intelligent & useful scholars.

Reading your post Indi, according to you;
People who have studied further than grade 2, are those pseudo intellectuals who are getting in your hair, and ruining the achievements of "normal" people such as yourself.

Suse, you are "boarder line insulting" to Indi in the extreme, I was such a case once, but now feel I have established a very close rapport, indeed I now have a most harmonious relationship with dear Indi, I also feel we could possibly have become soul mates, particularly since I no longer refer to Indi or his ideas in derogatory terms. These days I would not dream of insulting Indi. a rather sensitive chap on that score. We must take to heart the thoughts and ideas of Indi after all he does have a grade 2 education so his post seems to indicate, and he would not dream of doing good in society, again from his post, he did not deny those assertions. Well he does keep out of ones hair (almost), he could even be one of those intelligent and useful scholars

Paul I'll tell you a little story, of why many of us have no time for academics.

In the 60s I raced cars. I bought the oldest Brabham still in one piece, less engine, & upgraded it to as close to the latest as I & my friends could in a suburban backyard.

I needed a Cosworth Formula 2 engine, but had no chance of affording one. Regulations required the engine be built on the base of a production engine. Cosworth used the Ford 115E engine, so 3 of us decided to build one.

The leader was an accountant, in the tax department. A great amateur racing engineer, he had absorbed some bureaucratic ways, & would amuse us by complaining about having to have morning tea at his desk [no lunch room], when conducting an audit at some firms.

The second was a tool maker. He was design & manufacturing manager in Oz, with a large US mining equipment manufacturer. He was amused he had to get his BSc Mechanical Engineering part time, before they would promote him to general manager, despite doing the job all the while.

Then me, with my BSc Mech Eng, I was apprentice to these two.

We built the thing, using quite a few different design elements to the professionals, mostly done by hand rather than machine, & went racing. I broke the F2 lap record at a major circuit at it's first race, but only finished second, then won the race, or the F2 class in F1 races, in every race it started for the next 20 months.

Continued.

.

Continued

During this I ran into my favorite professor from my uni. days, & excitedly started telling him what we had done, how, & what we had achieved, I thought he'd be interested. He wasn't, cutting me off, & telling me that sort of stuff would never work. I'm not quite sure how he'd missed of the fact that it had, did, & was doing so. I was disappointed he was not interested, but really surprised he did not want to learn what had worked.

I have found this is standard with our insular academics. Marine biologists at AIMS & James Cook were totally dismissive of the experience & knowledge of some pretty bright engineers who spent most of their life on the reef. They are only interested in their own incestuous little world, not even inquiring what qualifications & experience a dive instructor, who dived the reef daily might have, before dismissing them.

These academics are pretty bad value. I had a couple of very highly qualified marine biologists working as dive instructors, because they wanted to be in the real thing, not in an office diving in a computer

Oh come on Hasbeen and Individual. How many 'academics' have you actually known in your insular 'non-academic world?
There are many academics who have done wonderful work in saving many native animals from extinction.

I'm assuming you never bother with Doctors, Dentists or Vets, given they are all academics?
You can't just tar all academics with the same brush as if you know them all.

That would be like me suggesting that all non-academic people are boring, monosyllabic, Neanderthal morons...

Suse, reading Hasbeen's post I have come to realise all the conserves on here are old farts over 90, mostly suffering from the latter stages of dementia. They all hang out at the same old folks home. When not having a rousing game of bingo, and sisters not looking, they lob on the homes puter and post guff on the forum, it fills in the waking hours between the nanna naps. Don't worry fellas sister will be around soon with your nightly medication.

Lol Paul : )
I don't mind the oldies having their say, as long as they are wise too!
Old doesn't always mean wise, or even nice...

Suse you have a very different idea of academia to the one I was taught, & to the belief of academics themselves.

To an academic, doctors, dentists, vets & & BScs are mere tradesmen, never to be considered in the same breath as themselves.

Academics are people who live in ivory towers, never considering anything as crude as applying their trade for profit. Having to actually earn a living is so far beneath them the mere thought makes most of them quite ill. We are supposed to support them to do little more than think, something most of them are not good at anyway. They do descend occasionally to do a little teaching, but they find that so distasteful, they do it as rarely as possible.

The majority crave tenure, which in Oz means they can do absolutely nothing useful for the rest of their worthless lives, but still be very well kept in considerable comfort, by the taxpayer. This description of them should convince you, I have known more than I wish to remember.

And come on yourself. David Attenborough, a Television documentary narrator has done more to save wildlife than a ship load of academics.

This lack of understanding of each other I find rather interesting. I wonder how often many of us here, are talking past each other, totally misunderstanding each others meaning, mislead by different understanding of our common language. I wonder if we could find we have more in common on many subjects, if we really did understand what the other wanted to convey?

Paul, if you cuddle a couple of bricks, & jump into a swimming pool, they will take you to the bottom. Blow some bubbles, & they will go up to the surface.

Do this a few hundred times & even you may learn which way is up, I doubt it, but almost anything is possible if you get lucky.

Suse,

"There are many academics who have done wonderful work in saving many native animals from extinction."

Name a couple!

http://www.uq.edu.au/agriculture/wildlife-science

Is Mise and Hasbeen, any of the Academic teachers at Queensland University school of agriculture/wildlife science would seem to fit the bill, to name just one University.
Read about it yourself and widen your horizons a little.

Hasbeen, I looked up academic in the dictionary just to make sure I had the meaning right, and it seems both of us could be right!
It has two meanings
1- relating to education and scholarship.
2-not of practical relevance, of only theoretical interest.

To my mind, an academic is someone who went to university and studied for and gained a degree of some sort.
The academics at the university I mentioned above are actively doing research at present to save 3 endangered species.

Suse
"There are many academics who have done wonderful work in saving many native animals from extinction."
They came and destroyed the police forces to the point where the crims get more attention than the victims.
Academics are parasites.

These attacks on so called "academics" are mostly the jealous imagined machinations of some. There is no evidence that there is in existence a systemic group in society of bloated academics that do nothing more than feed off the public purse. Sure, there does exist the lazy and incompetent at all levels in society. There exists the lazy and incompetent factory worker as much as there is the lazy and incompetent university lecture. I do not believe any such persons exist as the fundamental group in any organisation.

"They" came and destroyed the police forces to the point where the crims get more attention than the victims. Academics are parasites.
More likely "they" came with the intention of rooting out the criminal and corrupt within the police force itself. One thing bent coppers can't stand is scrutiny.

If each generation allows no development
of new ideas - by definition our children will not progress
very far. An educated parent who instills in his or her
children the necessity and fun of exercising an enquiring
mind, has nothing to fear from the influence of a good
teacher. And between parent and teacher, a better world is
there to be made.

Nothing other than knowledge is going to save the planet and
the humans and other animals that live in it.

Hasbeen,
BTW: David Attenborough does have a degree in
Natural Sciences - he's a true academic - he's pursued knowledge
all of his life.

There is no evidence that there is in existence a systemic group in society of bloated academics that do nothing more than feed off the public purse.
Paul1405,
Are you totally blind as well as utterly ignorant ? No Evidence ? Are you off you trolley ?
Open your eyes & mind & look around you but before you do enroll in a quick TAFE course on how to obtain an ounce of integrity.

Now you have really upset me Suse.

I can handle most things, but accusing me of being an academic is going all too far.

Take it back.

Maybe this demonstrates the difference Hasbeen is drawing and others seem at pains to ignore his practical meaning,

<Sir David Attenborough gets a mauling from academic....because he's 'ignoring' all the gay animals in his BBC nature documentaries
By Fiona Macrae 9 February 2013
David Attenborough is accused of not covering homosexuality in the animal kingdom

Gay rights campaigners were delighted when the Commons approved same-sex marriage this week.

But it appears there is another fight on the horizon – for equality in Sir David Attenborough’s nature documentaries.

An academic has criticised the BBC star for failing to cover homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

Dr Brett Mills, head of media studies at the University of East Anglia, said that while he doubted Sir David was deliberately ignoring the issues, homosexuality is ‘pretty much everywhere’ in the animal world.

He said that by ignoring or sidelining the issue, wildlife documentary makers are skewing the audience’s view of what is natural.

Dr Mills – who has previously criticised such documentaries for invading animals’ rights to privacy – said: ‘These programmes make a valuable contribution to environmental awareness and how people think about the world around them. They are highly regarded and educational but they should also be offering alternative interpretations of animal behaviour.

‘The central role in documentary stories of pairing, mating and raising offspring commonly rests on assumptions of heterosexuality within the animal kingdom.>

http://tinyurl.com/buxmrrq

That article might result in confused priorities for some in this thread. LOL

Not to worry Hasbeen, your secret is safe with me....just don't tell the 'academically challenged' Individual : )

Paul is right in saying there are good and bad in any group of people in society, so Individual doesn't gave a leg to stand on re his seemingly paranoid feelings about all those nasty academics out there in the big, wide educated world...beyond his reach.

In any case, I think we have established that both academics and non-academics do work as one when trying to save the native animals, so I will see you all on another equally thrilling thread : )

Cheers,
Sues.

Suse,

"There are many academics who have done wonderful work in saving many native animals from extinction."

Name a couple!

You haven't named any yet, can't you Google a couple?

Give the animal killers a free hand and native animals such as the koala will be shot to extinction. A bunch of these shooters recently tortured a koala to death in Queensland (see link). Many of these so called hunters take perverse pleasure not by killing animals outright but rather in torturing animals like koalas and possums slowly to death. There are many accounts of drunken hunters dismembering kangaroos (see link). There people may even be responsible for bushfires, pollution, destruction of property and degradation of the bush. As these people have no regard for our native flora and fauna I would strongly advise if they get their way decent people should keep right out of national parks as anyone would be fair game to these people.


http://www.inquisitr.com/312927/

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/roo-slaughter-renews-greens-hunting-unease/story-e6frfku9-1226608988676

Paul, getting desperate?

The first link has absolutely nothing to do with shooters and the second one is from a highly prejudiced source, David Shoebridge, who just voted for hunting to continue in State Forests and to commence in National Parks; bit of a double standard.

Sandalplank gives no evidence that the kangaroos mentioned were in fact shot.

Why don't you bring up the famous incident when a wallaby/'roo was shot with an arrow near Hilltop NSW

Is Mise, you know as well as I do, if the drunken hoards of murderous Rambo hunters are allowed into our national parks nothing will be safe, animals, plants, people, it will be a free for all.
My links are unbiased and perfectly to the point. Remember the Victorian duck hunting season and what used to go on with that drunken crowd of killers? It will be the same again if the hunting lobby get their way.

God you talk so much crap Paul. You must trying top all the twits we have ever had on here. Where do you get this rubbish.

I was a hunter. I have filled the pot quite often with game. I am extremely proud that my shot gun has never been discharged, ever, without providing food each time.

There have been a few occasions when it has only shot down a hand of coconuts, but that is still food.

The 303 is different. It's main use was to eliminate as many wild pigs as possible. I know quite a few hunters, & they are all similar in what they shoot. I know it will challenge your belief system, but every one of us would admire, rather than shoot a Koala.

To challenge you even further. Four of us were pig shooting by invitation on a property on the upper reaches of the Clarence river. As we crested a small ridge, there was a fox, 50 yards away coming towards us. We & the fox froze. We raiser our rifles to our shoulder, then lowered them again. We looked at each other, then burst out laughing.

Although from the property owners & Oz wildlife point of view, we should have shot the fox, none of us could shoot a beautiful animal, that we could kid ourselves was harmless.

I know you won't believe this, it would shatter your illusions, & may even make you think for once. Heaven forbid that.

Posted by Paul1405,
"Is Mise, you know as well as I do, if the drunken hoards of murderous Rambo hunters are allowed into our national parks nothing will be safe, animals, plants, people, it will be a free for all.
My links are unbiased and perfectly to the point. Remember the Victorian duck hunting season and what used to go on with that drunken crowd of killers? It will be the same again if the hunting lobby get their way."

Neither of your sources said a thing about shooting or offered any proof that the animals were shot, that allegation was your own invention.
Tell us all about the duck hunting, some facts, if you please, not innuendo from your own biased mind.

Shoebridge is not a reliable reference as he lied about the Game Council CEO under the protection of Parliamentary Privilege, a low act.

"God you talk so much crap Paul. You must trying top all the twits we have ever had on here." Only trying to top your crap Hasbeen.
"I was a hunter. I have filled the pot quite often with game." Who did you think you were? Daniel Boone.
"There have been a few occasions when it has only shot down a hand of coconuts" Were you standing directly underneath at the time?
"The 303 is different. It's main use was to eliminate as many wild pigs as possible" I thought it main use was to shoot Turks and Germans in WWI.
Is Mise; David Shoebridge is one of the most honorable and most truthful persons in the NSW parliament. This is born out by the fact he is not a member of the Liberal or Labor parties. Should David speak of someone, such as you man Boyle, he would only speak the truth.
What is Boyle doing these day? Fat cat public servant on the unattached list, drawing big pay for doing nothing?

David Shoebridge is a human headline.

Shoebridge is part of the extreme Left of the Greens, the Watermelon faction, headed by the simply awful Lee Rhiannon, that is splitting the Greens.

<HARD Left Greens senator Lee Rhiannon and her forces, dubbed the watermelon faction, have seized greater control of the NSW branch in a move some fear could influence the future direction of the party.
..

One Greens source said Mr Greenland and Mr Shoebridge were part of the watermelon faction - green on the outside and red on the inside - rather than the "tree-hugging camp".
..
Along with Senator Rhiannon, the pair is seen to be sympathetic to the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel, although Mr Greenland has not promoted the movement.

"In the long-term, the Labor party will benefit," the source said. "If we see the Greens going into these kinds of things they will no longer be seen as a boutique environment party. There's a fight about the future. It's actually an existential fight between the red greens and the green greens."
.....
Mr Shoebridge, however, has attracted attention for his support of the BDS movement in defiance of the party's federal opposition to the movement.

Although Greens leader Christine Milne has confirmed the minor party does not support the BDS movement, Mr Shoebridge joined a rally at the University of Sydney in August in support of "the right to boycott Israel on campus". Mr Shoebridge also attended the annual Socialist Alliance conference in Sydney last year to deliver "greetings" from the NSW Greens.
..>
http://tinyurl.com/l6behla

Beach you see anyone to the left of Genghis khan as "hard left" that's not surprising from someone who might have believed Ronald Reagan was a communist.
"green on the outside and red on the inside" "tree huggers" how cliche Beach.
A nice lift there from one of the criminals fish wrappers.
and then there is the "source". The great unnamed "sauce", the "sauce" said this and "sauce" said that wrong spelling the fool should have spelt it "sauce", because the fool was most likely on the "sauce" when he wrote the rubbish. Certainly no one from The Greens would talk to one of the fools working for the foreign criminals at No News Corp.
As for your Israel link more trash from the criminals at No News, Beach do you get your no news delivered by Cobb & Co the rubbish is 2 months old.

Paul1405, "the fool was most likely on the "sauce" when he wrote the rubbish"

The 'fool' to whom you refer, Christian Kerr, was credited by Crikey as leading its political coverage since it inception up to just recently when he was poached (Crikey's word, not mine) by The Australian.

Are you saying that Crikey and The Australian are "criminals fish wrappers"?

Christian Kerr, an Australian political staffer turned political commentator, who has written for the email news service Crikey and now writes rubbish for Murdock's fish wrapper, The Australian. In 2008 he joined the "journalistic" staff of Rupert Murdoch's fish wrapper The Australian. Kerr worked as a staffer to Howard government cabinet members Robert Hill, Amanda Vanstone. He worked for Amanda Vanstone one of the all time klutzes of federal parliament. Vanstone could make Flo Bjelke Petersen look intelligent, pumpkin scones and all.
So Kerr is his own "sauce"?
What organisation owns The Australian and what organisation was behind the criminal phone hacking in the UK. Beach is there a link to The Australian on that scandal, or did Rupert apply the gag

With respect Paul I am not going to join you in that swamp.

Christian Kerr worked for Crikey for a long period and that alone should indicate to most that he is able to report and discuss with adequate independence. What journalist would regard being headhunted by The Australian as a slur against his name?

What about the lies that Shoebridge and the other Greens told about Brian Boyle that caused him to seek to have his side put before the Parliamentary Committee?

Either he is a liar or Shoebridge is, and Boyle did not have the protection of Parliamentary Privilege.

Boyle spoke the truth and there is ABC video evidence that he did so and that the Greens lied.

Quote:" Mr Boyle denied saying the words Buckingham attributed to him, and pointed out that the area he was in during an ABC television interview was clear, as can be seen in the footage.
He detailed a number of other incorrect and misleading statements made by the Greens MLCs, who are protected by parliamentary privilege from any potential legal action over their comments.
Mr Boyle’s full right of reply, which has now been accepted in the Hansard record, can be found on the NSW parliament website." unquote.

See: http://www.sportingshootermag.com.au/news/boyle-hits-back-at-greens-attack

The watermelons believe that the ends justify the means.

Apart from that, Shoebridge is just copying Lee Rhiannon's choices of the buttons to press to get that few percent of the serially upset's vote in order to continue to polish a parliamentary seat whining and doing nothing productive.

A good job if you can get it.

How many foxes has Shoebridge eradicated?
How many have the Green's parliamentary representatives got rid of?
How many foxes has the entire Green's membership got, road kills included?

I'll ask about feral cats, deer, wild dogs, pigs and cane toads later.

"What journalist would regard being headhunted by The Australian as a slur against his name?" Beach, you can not use the words quality newspaper and Rupert Murdoch in the same sentence. All No News Corp publishes in Australia are trashy tabloids and gutter rubbish. I'm sure even a "journalist" like Kerr has his price. Fortunately in Sydney we have a reasonable publication for real news in The Sydney Morning Herald and for unbiased and fair reporting of the facts there is always the ABC.

Paul1405,

There are all average only. There are few journalists of any worth remaining, regardless of the news outlet concerned. As I have said before somewhere, they make the late Richard Carlton's reports look professional and replete with deep analysis and original thought. The independents aren't any better and more often worse.

I had hoped that the Net might improve things, but obviously not, or at least not so far.

My conviction is that people like Lee Rhiannon are not what the Greens should be wasting seats on. The same applies to Shoebridge in NSW. I would like to see a return to the genuine concern for the environment and the honesty that existed earlier.

Whoops, my "There are all average only.", should be "They are all average only."

"My conviction is that people like Lee Rhiannon are not what the Greens should be wasting seats on."

Bring back Ian Cohen, a Green with guts and the courage of his convictions.
The current crop of Watermelons aren't fit to lick his sandal straps.

dont see how killing..any beast,,[unless for to eat]..
is worth this..libel/label...of a beastly killer

[remember..to collude or condone..ANY..murder..is the same guilt..morally..as well as..a under mens law]

the law..of thou.,.shalt not MURDER*
[the law has no*..*sub-clause..get it?]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6065&page=0
no sub being..all life IS SACRED
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0

not for the life..its being..but by the creator,who
is,sustaining..it too..its living

[and by..the vile..life..that..is living..
WHICH..he yet sustains..them too..their living
[in..the best body..they can..wish for..[some.of us..are just less imaginative..others reach..for the stars..[chose..becoming..even/suns..of..the sun]

but..the law..begins/ends..with
dont..murder..any living-one

[bu..no-one..is
without..this sin..of murder
[even if..by ignorance..they..murder 2000..living/soy-seeds..
in..multiple/alkaline-baths..,,just-to..make/fake-milk..for..a lattee'

murder..is yet..murder

thats/why..even..vego's..should..pray4..their-prey..
pray..over..their food..for that..which was murded..just
so..you could..live/off..ya soy/corpses..life-blood..[the..very life juice..[vampireisms..come/to..mind]

we..are..*all=energy..some..in/thinking-mind/form's
others..as..auto-reactive/beasts..others..sleeping..as..if/plant

[the/sleepers..really believed..life..death..*then nothing
its..a way..we use to..help/make..them awake..[i guess..by baking them..[murded-seeds]..in an..oven..helps them..to spiritually awake..hopefully..into a..higher/life-form..

if/not..the energy..exchange systems..move..your life..energy..ever on..further on..[de-evolution]

let/me..relate..the..gold-fish/toad..parable
for..your/edification..[cause education..is resisted]

edited
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6065&page=0

anyhow..one day the..fish..were gone..
and all..i..had left..was string..upon string..of cane-toad/eggs
seems..a hungry..cane-toad..somehow..*found..the energy..[from/eating the..saved-fish..to create..yet more..life-forms..[homes..for spirit]

5/fish..became..over..a thousand..cane toads
but in many stages..some matured really fast..and.moved-on
the others stayed and stayed..grew/fat..but..left somehow.very quickly..once..i got..bored..with/the..lesson..it seems..spirit..is needing..the..morphiousus/form..more than..the metamorphose/the..5 fish

suggestion..is take..our brothers..into protective custody
use..the/land..to feed...*all..of us.

you/greenies..r..being conned..big-time
by.;that/.lot.that uses..beastly GAMES..to/keep..us
from-what..men,..must..in-time..become..

the/caretaker[brothers-keeper]...you
take care..of others..we..take care..of you..2

[ps..watch-out..for large..hatchings..
you..know..what/that..means]

BUT..we..get/better..than we earned
anyhow..a pond..need's/care
so..i..put in..more-fish..[or else..the/only bodies available..to..evolving-spirits..would be mosque'itos..[the/blood sukking-type]..

not..the educative..of jesus/message..kind
at..least/mahamoud..[may peace..be upon..all..of/gods..many messengers]

anyhow..the mosque-kind..of ..kind-mind..
at..least got..the/law..pure..[of..no imagery..
no..eating/flesh..drinking/blood..
as..true-mosque-eato$..do

anyhow..it..needs be..spelled out
dis-spelled..the myth..that.life energy..can expire

ENERGY....CANNOT BE..CREATED>>NOR..DESTROYED
there..can..only/be..endless
seemingly..new beginnings..just as..there is..ENDLESS rebirth

that..was/not..a new parrable
but an..important one..comes to..mind

men..kill..elders..
[attack those..of wisdom..of age]
the..older..the tree..the older..the sleepy spirit..embodied..in-it

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=15257&page=0

OUG, OMG!

damm..it..why this topic stop?
ps..this extracted..is relative..to animal-form/function..
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6073&page=0

their..reason..for being
expanded here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6040&page=0

You..aren't supposed..to think/about..it..too much...
[the/past-life..whether..for/good or ill..is part..of the past..thus..illusion..[other-realities..we evolved..past/spiritually].

[past-lives..in lower/incarnation/ie beast*...etc]
think..like tree-of evolution..but spirit/evolving..into..you

when..we are..trying to..minimize,..illusion/beast-with/in..
so/as...to..maximize..this present..living..moment..in/time..into..a loving-eternal/aware moment..[of/man]..*[edited]..

Jesus,..however,..has thought..through..
exactly what..he means..by."Have..a god day."..

He..ends-up filling-out..our rather vacant/conventional..saying
with..his own..rather profound..spiritual-teaching.

As..a result,..the kind-of day..jesus is..calling.."good"..is *significantly-different..than..our usual..bland-conceptions...recalls.and false memories...

Further.. he has in..aware-mind..a specific way..
to have..that good day...[by loving/other as..the..*way
to..love*our..father]

[love creator..by constantly/CONSISTENTLY...trying..to love-other creations]

This..is so characteristic..of the Course,..to take..some familiar cultural/container,..like.."have a good day,"..and..fill it*.with totally..unfamiliar content,*..which..has both..spiritual-depth

and..specific..injunctions..
for how/to..experience..that depth.
http://miraclevision.com/acim/urtext/acim-urtext-2003-upe-ready-edition.pdf

did..you..know..syphilis..cures cancer
[if you beg for the..cure..for cancer...more?]

thing is as acim..would..point our..god CREATED..the good things
MAN>>AS..the ...CO-CREATOR..created the 'other'..not good nor bad..as such

[but mankind was created,,to judge our bettors..
[the fallen angels]..and so lest i..be adjudging..angels unaware
i do like..*sgt shultze..[I SEE..nothing,,[evil]..

lest i be sustaining my own delusion..
and judge all..[or any]..more wrong than..my..erant judgment

HOW OFtEN..we..been wrong?
[thats the petty detail..now as for..
judging the angels../who created syphilis..when we got..the glory/duty..POWER..to end it..NOW..within..our material-power..

ok..fine
just be sure..of the..full details..[just..the facts...maam]

nothing..is all good..[but god]
but nothing..of gods*..perfect creations..creation
is Totally..useless/..nothing completly..evil/..nuthin-vile..

nothing..being..that is not being,..
but that..its being..being-created..by mind..
[gods..ours/angels..even beasts/flora/metal/mineral/vapor/aether/light too..[24/7]..

no passion..shall..not be met
this much doth him..love of us do..for..us..his living creations..[E]..[all-equally..[E]..in what-ever..form..of..[E]..as we desire..to be..being.]

see..the most vile beast..yet god..too sustains it its being..[regardless of the will..of the being..the being..is being..
by the passion/creations..its mind..will..to..brings into..its life realisation's..[see adsrocicrecord]

[do not..even kings not..have dreams..of serving?]
could we not forgive..other..[the allof other[our wholly father]./could we not forgive..him..that one small error..of his..true perfect..[his one flaw..of his not so..pefect creation?

[ie.[to-wit/if-so-facto*..freewill..
freewill..lol..for angels/beasts and men?]
who will..you deny?..

their freewilll..[or gods freewill..
when..he gifted..his freewill..of..our freewill..un/to...in-to..us all?

if..i ever get cancer..i..will test..the syphilis-theory-out

who do..we see to get it..?
are there less bad..[as in..less adverse-reactive..'strains'?]..

did the..clever even..look..for
the karma..inherent..in every..man/angel-free-willed..form creation?

Had a good afternoon, went hunting foxes and shot three, one dog and two lactating vixens; which means that a number of kits may also die without their mothers.

I probably saved more native animals today than all the Greens put together.

possibly linked to..this topic
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6065&page=0

Game Council Abolished but Greens Endorse Hunting

i would ignore the deliberated provocation
he is just being..hypo-thetical..[i trust]..cause killing for killings sake is a mortal..sin/
murder..goes against..the very real/living life sustaining/holy spirit

[sustaining all living..all..of our lives]
in..this life and the next

we..can..only..honor.life by living
not dying..by helping other to live..not by murder/other

what of the new law?..
[love one..and other]..who..is not a life br-other..

[in..essence nothing really..dies..
but..this material..gift of living..
is best served..by live and let live..[far better to give]

who made you..
so too..made others as well
[its by his choice/not yours]

those who love to murder..look for excuses to murder
those who..love the sin..look for excuse..to do the sin

is mise..love's talking too..much
only slightly less..than stirring..but as a theory..you cant save life by taking life

[just like you cant end war by making war..
those..who love it..do it..or seek excuses to..justify doing it..[full-stop]

killers go..to the same hell
and when..there..can be killing..ONLY
each-other

[killing only..other..same as themselves
killing only..fellow lovers of murder

love the lover=heaven
love to murder=hell

foxes are what foxes are..
bymurder you can only return..as beast
[by you killing them..you..stopped karma..doing its karmic stuff]

you pareoled them..out of their lifes lesson

[to be sickend..of murder]

..murderers kill can..only kill..their own
in..the place for murders..[but we love what we love..but forget karma

[and killers of..the "foxes"..in..hell
they..find out..after the kill..they..wernt foxes..
but..the living..loved ones..we loved..[its shock-therapy]

see the kill..was their thrill
and killing..can only..be seem to..happen..here..and in..hell

but who..lives..lives by gods will
not thyne..ill-will[yeah..only joking]

learn..their teaching..
not judge their means of surviving..but..
the same life..force sustaining them..as suss-stains..thyne..own..

[owen]

There needs to be a competition for the most imbecilic, inflammatory statement by the Greens 'Watermelons'.

Two often heard, especially from the NSW Greens:

- That introduced ferals such as foxes are now part of the local fauna and must be protected a such.

- That foxes only eat dead lambs, or weak ones that would die anyhow.

They make it obvious they have never witnessed the foxes dragging lambs out of their mothers during birth. Life is very different behind a keyboard in the city, depending on someone else to produce food for you.

Without 'Wonderful Centrelink' and bubble-wrapped food the Greens Watermelons would die in a very short time. An even shorter time if they had their way and there are no dams for their water.

Beach person, once again unsubstantiated emotive rubbish.

- That introduced ferals such as foxes are now part of the local fauna and must be protected a such.

- That foxes only eat dead lambs, or weak ones that would die anyhow.

Why don't you say it was 'Liberal" Party people who brought foxes to this country in the first place. Wanted to have fox hunts like the did in good olde mother England.

Without 'Wonderful Centrelink' and bubble-wrapped food the Greens Watermelons would die in a very short time. More rubbish, I am a Green are you implying I live off Centrelink? Didn't you braggingly post the other day how you perceived you had ripped off some person with a shonky land deal "I sold it for 5 times it actual value."

OTB,

"They make it obvious they have never witnessed the foxes dragging lambs out of their mothers during birth. Life is very different behind a keyboard in the city, depending on someone else to produce food for you."

Nor have they had to kill ewes that have been so savaged by foxes during or after birth that there has been no hope of saving them.
They would not have seen a hen house with all the chooks dead from a single fox's killing frenzy.

Paul1405, <Didn't you braggingly post the other day how you perceived you had ripped off some person with a shonky land deal "I sold it for 5 times it actual value.">

You have me mixed up with someone else. That is the second time. Please check.

nature..operates..by natural-law
we have natures methods..of balancing

if you take-away my food source..[the bluffellow]..
and my deer..i..eat your cows and your shhhheeep..or from your hen-house..or pigeon keep

if you glean..the fields..of the very/last grain..
what your fellow creatures to eat?

[you took their field of wild grasse.. and flowers]
and trees..but you took..their food..their home

and then..[the rabbits]..

ok...every beast has its karma
we got the rabbit cause we killed the billby
we lost our native rat..got the ship rat..the world is fullo 0f weeds

but
that we do to the least
we do to him sustaining..every-life its...living..the most..sustaining..the least

god gives us..the body that best.gets us a feed
that best..meets our wants..as much as our..needs..

[are you of mice or men?]
[chicken..or peacock]..obsessed..by small..thoughts or with a huge heart

do you act..like a beast..or a sheeple?
yearn to fly..into the heavens..[or just wag ya fluffy..tail]

or march..like an ant..
or morph..like a butterfly..

may-be..your after the stillness..like the stillness
of the tree..[no thank you..not 4 for me]

24yr old female conservative here!
I don't agree with letting any yahoo with a shooters licence having free range on our parks and wildlife, feral or otherwise. But I'm sure that Has been, Is Mise and OTB would agree with me there. (please correct me if I am wrong) What we are saying is that we are sick to death of all shooters and farmers been bundled in with the minority of people out there that act like idiots. We are sick to death of people telling us from behind a computer screen the habits and patterns that the pests that affect OUR INCOMES AND LIVELYHOODS every single day. We would be all for helping if we were listened to for once! Certainly academics and the like have some helpful and insightful information, but anyone without a stack of degrees is, more often then not, ignored.
The DSE (or whatever they have just changed their name too) have just laid bait around my family farm again, right on the fridge of it, and it is not uncommon to see native animals as well as livestock and pets biting themselves, scrabbling around in pain screaming and moaning because the poor little buggers have a gutful of the "humane" bait. No doubt when I put the poor thing out of its misery it is later found to be the actions of some native animal killing Rambo instead of a person unable to leave an animal in severe pain.
Having said that I hate culling from choppers as it does quite often leave animals to suffer with only wounds. I am sure most of us farmers would be more then happy to form groups or clubs that work with the Greens so that any hunting is controlled and safe as possible if given a chance.

OUG.

Christ ate meat, thereby condoning the killing of land animals.
He ate fish thereby condoning the killing of fish.
He probably enjoyed birds as well.

No doubt that He also swatted mosquitoes, as the familiar aerosol sprays were not available in those days.

iswise..wether jesus ate meat..or not
i..know for near two thousand years..he has not

[see..in the next life..
we dont eat meat..no-one can]

we dont eat vegetables...and dont kill seeds..to make flour
jesus may have eaten..meat..must have eaten..dead seeds..is likely to have eaten greens..as well as bacteria/molds etc etc..

[all-living..necessitates death..to give up/their life forces
so other life may simply live][i..guess thats why we pray ..over our prey[food]..

as i said earlier..even vegans do murder..of seeds/vegetables/
indeed..none is without sin..

but i see nothing wrong..with eating to live
but no excuse..to do murder..lightly[all intended killing=murder

i even thought..man as caretaker..
helping..[husbanding]..our wildlife
and our food..by..giving them a rich-life..
then..immediately following death..to..enter the food chain

jesus said..more blessed the lion..become food for man
than..man become meat..for lion

the important..key point of the law..reads
we shall..not murder..not that we shall not kill..
we must learn the difference..live and let live..but we all become meat..once the body becomes dead

that said..i eat meat..one shared guilt
i avoid the 2000..smaller murders..by mostly not eating flour
or rice..yet eat potatoes..[who;s eyes=life..and onions..but not the central..core..i do eat nuts..and their living too..[or rather were before we roasted the poor but tasty things,..into..higher incarnation.

as i said,,none of us..can be perfect
we can only try to..educate the ignorant..without laying our guilt upon..them..we all..do it..some knowingly..others blissfully..ignorant

and god trusts us enough..to in..time..get it
im..not there yet either..but do..know someone..who..lived for two years..just on tea..and chocolate[i..didnt raise the fact..of coco beans being life..and tea-leaves containing life forces..this place..isnt perfect..[its not meant tobe..but after living..we are all sinners

and even..if you lived off mothers milk
mum still..needs eat..meat..or worse live off cows milk
[ever heard of bobby calves/veal..un-wanted calves..and us..drinking milk]

these are the realms..where we earn
the names they call us by..hereafter..let ye without sin..not cast stones[not even at stoners]

onthebeach,
Please forgive Paul1405 for <Didn't you braggingly post the other day how you perceived you had ripped off some person with a shonky land deal "I sold it for 5 times it actual value.">

He does tend to get confused when his engine hots up.

As the archers said as he shot the apple "It was I" chrisgaff1000 that made that memorable statement about a real estate deal.