Why in the hell do we have this garbage here, in our country.

If they (Muslims) dont like what's hapening, GO HOME and protest all you like, but don't bring this crap to our country.

THIS IS AUSTRALIA!

rehctub, Gee, I didn't think that add for CareerOne job search above your post would upset you so much. Is CareeOne run by the Muslims? LOL.

The police should have video cameras out let them protest BUT any form of anti social behavior of a criminal nature GOOD BYE after conviction first plane home

Phillip S, Whats this Namby Pamy Land stuff about waiting for a "conviction". Soft bleeding heart liberalism no room for such tripe in our society. I say hang em high then pluck their eyes out, No that's too good, hang em high, pluck their eyes out and THEN send em to bed without any supper! That 'ill teach em, don't mess with OZ.

rehctub:
This my friend is probably only the beginning! We are about to sow the reward of our apathy by kow-towing to the UN and the oligarchs who are pulling the strings of the puppets.

These people who are currently rioting across the globe are simply RADICALS who look for any excuse to persue their agenda. The move-makers have provided that excuse, so now we all have to suffer the cosequences.

I would warn people everywhere that the only sure-fire way to STOP this religous zeal is to ban ALL forms of religion to the inside of the homes. This of course is disaster for the Churches, but they have had a good run, for a very long time!

I hope that ALL the do-gooders and the bleeding hearts across the western world realise and accept the monstrosity that they have helped to create, by their pushing for a never-ending stream of humanity, to this and many other countries across the globe. I do believe that this has all been part of a well-ordained conspiracy to
create the type of situation that is just starting here in our country, as we read.

The "Arab Spring" participants have been aided, abetted and supplied
with arms and munitions by some of the UN member nations, designed to overthrow "tyrannical" rulers and replace them with leaders "friendly to US" thus putting more eastern countries under the covert control of the good ole sheriff of Wallyworld.

It is now imperative that the ongoing riots be handled with extreme firmness and the authorities arrest and deport immediately any active rioter who is a known Asylum Seeker, or of that extraction!

Citizens are being warned to stay out of the Sydney CBD, so these malcontents are already holding us hostage to their religous mania.

We must fear that what has happened before can happen again, and that us the "Infidels" can be about to become modern victims of the Saracen
blade, unless sanity prevails, which is highly unlikely!

We just do not need this !
It was a deliberate finger up at us.
They knew such a behaviour is offensive and unnecessary.

There is a behavior problem that seems to be inbuilt to moslems.
People with behaviour problems usually over react to anything that they
do not like or which offends them.

If this is what is going to happen everytime something happens in the
world that they do not like, then it is well past time that they leave.

Reality check folks

Indonesia, our most important neighbour, with ten times our population and a rapidly growing economy, is also the world's largest Muslim country. In the not too distant future Indonesia, not Australia, will be calling the shots in this part of the world.

So get used to treading carefully when it comes to Islam.

Some more footage shot by a mate of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAp4eBV720
He's saying that Socialist Alternative were involved and were directing people to the protest and egging them on, the Commies actually recognised him as a Nationalist and attacked him, but he lost them in the crowd and ran behind the Police line. According to my source the Muslims just attacked Police straight away, there was no peaceful protest at all, they were there looking for a fight.

Socialist Alternative support violence, they were definitely involved and were seen provoking violence and revving up the protestors:
http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=7491:police-brutalise-peaceful-muslim-protest-in-sydney&Itemid=391

If I were an Egyptian Christian I'd definitely be making plans to make tracks.

This from American ABC

Egypt's Christians Anxious, Anticipate Troubles

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/egypts-christians-anxious-anticipate-troubles-17241741#.UFRZZI0gdqI

>>Christians gathered Friday in front of a Cairo cathedral holding signs denouncing a film that mocked the Prophet Muhammad* amid fears that Muslims will take out their anger on Egypt's minority community.

The country's 8 million Coptic Christians were already feeling increasingly cornered amid the rise to power of hard-line Islamists in Egypt following the ouster of Hosni Mubarak.

Now U.S. authorities have identified a self-described Coptic Christian living in California as the key figure behind the inflammatory film, and the community at home fears it will bear the brunt of the blame.

"We are afraid the anger will engulf us," said Monier Hanna, a 58-year-old Coptic government employee who says he saw two unveiled Christian women being harassed over the movie by Muslim men in his middle-class district of Helwan on Thursday.

"They were telling the women they are responsible for the film," he said.

Mira Girgis, a 23-year-old Copt and recent college graduate, said she feels insecure.

"I can't go to church alone; my brother must be with me. I can't go out at night. When I return from work, a male — either my father or brother — must be waiting for me at the subway station," she said. "Being a Christian ... is hard in Egypt in these conditions."

A Christian journalist, Caroline Kamel, wrote in the Shorouk daily Friday that she and her family came under attack at a bus terminal in Cairo and another city over the film. "Am I supposed to ... apologize for stupidities of others just for the mere fact that we share the same religion?" she said.>>

*I doubt that will help them.

This all adds fuel to the argument that we, the people, need more say as to how this great nation of ours is managed.

At some point, immigration laws must change to the point of only allowing people to move to Australia, who want a better life, living as Australians.

A must is, that as a condition of entry, they must leave thier baggage behind.

What comes next, terrorisim?

Their here, courtesy of our pro multicultural governments, they are simply awaiting their turn to become martyrs.

Multiculturalism has been a dismal failure in other countries, we are only just beginning to realize that I'm afraid.

I have nothing against any culture, so long as they don't bring thier baggage with them.

Steven,
I've been wondering about that angle from the start, this film was apparently shot portraying a different story then re edited and re dubbed to it's present form, it's been online since July and now the alleged "Christian" film maker is being questioned by U.S Police for possible parole violations. The guy might just be a nut or an internet troll but whatever the case he's playing with fire, if he's a really Middle Eastern Christian he would have had to have known what the consequences of his actions would be. I don't know if you're a fan of the show Deadwood but as Al Swearengen might say, "This sort of thing fires up the Hoople Heads".

Send them home?

Oh, of course, there are no Muslim Australians. They're all illegal immigrants...

The film, like those cartoons a while ago, was made with the knowledge and deliberate intention of deliberately provoking a violent response.

Congratulations to all those involved.

Well rehctub, if they want to be martyrs they should start this cr4p out of the city. Try it out here & they wont find a nicely cowered population that they have in their country of origin, or our inner cities.

These people are pretty tough when they only have women & children against them, or odds of 10 to one, but they run like sheep when faced with any real opposition.

I wonder if we have any pollies with enough guts to ban men wearing dresses, with rags on their heads?

What is happening is rage for the sake of rage. It makes Muslims feel good; it gives them respect they cannot get other wise. It is easier for Muslims to do rage than to question the Quran and hadith. It is easier for a Muslims to deny reality than be honest about Islam and its teachings. Because Muslims cannot reflect on Islam, there is no hope for change or peace.

The big issue -- one that Muslims will not touch -- is that the material for these anti-Islam movies comes directly from the Quran and especially the hadith. If critics of Islam want to paint Islam, Mohammed and Muslims as violent and evil, they simply dig up passages from Islam's own writings. Muslims refuse to consider any criticism, of Islam, even when those criticisms are reasonable. Why don't Muslims condemn the verses in the Quran that teach hate and violence against others? Why don't they denounce the verses that say "Muslims are the best of peoples" and "Non-believers are lower than animals"?

Oh no, instead it is always about Muslims, their rights and any imagined offense. They want us to ignore all the evils they do, particularly where they dominate. . Some one should tell Muslims that respect is a two way street.

I refuse to believe that Muslims in Australia, the US or Europe are any different from their brethren in Islamic societies. If Muslims could, if we let them, they would destroy the very foundations of Western civilization (freedom of speech, religion, equality and separation of religion and state). They cannot live in peace, in numbers, with non-Muslims. Any country that accepts Muslims immigrants is asking for trouble, hate and violence.

There is no hope for peace. Our values are different. It is gonna get ugly. I have been saying this here at OLO for about 8 years, and nothing has changed. The future will not be nice.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/an-open-letter-20120915-25ziq.html
Good one Kaktuz, as a racist, yes PC brands me one the link I post brands me one, consider.
Every single time something like this takes place those from within the Muslim community say this is wrong BUT.
Facts, even America can not be held to account for this film, it was in all probability a few idiots maybe not even American.
And who ever it was the real crime has come from the Muslim community world wide.
Do not, as PC did, in Crunulla, force the blame on us!
From within this community we will see we are inflicting pain on every one trying to fix the un fixable.
I again challenge MUSLIM MIGRATION until that community learns to live in ours.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/tony-abbott-wants-taji-out/story-fndo317g-1226474896149
Sorry about the spelling Kactuz.
This link is for me historic, I support the words of Tony Abbott.
And while not for the first time, deeply question my party.
How and why did we let this pork chop in?
Do you see the call for the end of western civilization?
In this thread Paul puts his view, about standard from the greens, others warn WE/US should prepare to bend not the increasing Muslim population.
Remember Cronulla? do you see the same faces who claimed to own that Beach, assaulted lifeguards, called women sluts?, in Hyde Park yesterday.
Tell me it is not all, I know that!
Tell me first what is different? did we riot when piss Christ was put as art?
Attempts to call genuine fear and disgust at these foolish folk insulting our world are out of step with reality.
No God should be reason for hate.

As a nation, we are detiriating day by day, mainly due to our softly softly approach to most things over the past few decades.

In fact, if we continue the politically correct path, being ever so careful not to step on ones dick, who knows where we will end up.

Our forefathers fought to save our country, however one has to question why, when all that has happened since that attack on Darwin is either the selling off, or taking over of us as a nation. In fact, give it another seventy years, many will be confused as to what we actually stand for.

With the likes of this rubbish and our peacfull invasion from illegals, I am afraid the time has come for someone to take out that big stick and save the Australia that those diggers faught so hard to save some seventy odd years ago. Otherwise, they faught and died for nothing.

Those who look at the thread, name us red necks and flee.
First look at the protesters who yesterday took the chance to protest/riot.
Look at the reasons they did so.
And at the very insignificant reason they acted.
Hear the crys of the American family who morn today, for what?
Did you hear the interviews? to a woman in head cover *have you seen the film?*
No she said!
Sign behead all who insult the prophet?
And do you, yes you, personalty believe in any God?
In this God?
Have I the right to demand no God have any thing to do with this hate?

Why some Australian Lebs give Rami a bad name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6-tsV5Xj0

Muslim condemns Sydney protests:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUNOZaOPF0&list=UU8aEAyryaSz9TS4bP9Pbyrg&index=1&feature=plcp

yes belly..i agree..this is not..*of/for nor by god
but the oppiosite..

god kis good/life
as opposed to death cults that want alllife dead or subserviant

its deliberatly trying to set up armogeddon
by division/dire-version

THESE DECIEVED FOOLS REALLY WANT
ALL OF US DEAD..BUT THEM*

but that isnt religion..as we see in this tread..anti social socialists..set up the play..so too..the other minour end*time sects

get it in your head folks
some fools REALLY REALLY*..want an end time..
and will do all needed to make things look worse to look bad..
\
[or rather muslims look bad...
as if no one notices..cauise they been waiting watching for their oppertunistic action..plus the instant reaction like a wave.

.much like a mossad op..
efficient..influential/affective/all pervasive

yeah its a few nutters..sent out to restrict freedom of speech further..restrict internet.acces..etc etc..

if you think its not linked lo0k at the langauge used

hangem high..couge out eyes..etc..so sad

BUT
cant you feel..the de-mans demon/yearning to drink bloodlust?
inspiring their words

some of the words used..in these pages alone..is provocative/biased

but
its our right to stand speak..not kill nor provoke..
but your cure..is worse than the disease!

sue youtube./.
for the damages

www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israel-the-day-after.html


Gordis is tormented by polls..
that suggest that the centrality of Israel
within Jewish American life..is declining...

Apparently, a recent survey suggests ..continued

that 50 percent of young Jewish Americans ..35 years old and younger)..would not see the destruction of Israel as a ‘personal tragedy’.

why?

John Hopkins study
confirms Europeamn Jews are Khazars.


The question of Jewish ancestry..has been the subject of controversy for over two centuries..and has yet to be resolved...The “Rhineland Hypothesis”..proposes that Eastern European Jews/emerged from a small group of German Jews..who migrated eastward and expanded rapidly.

Alternatively,..the “Khazarian Hypothesis”..suggests that Eastern/European..descended from Judean tribes..who joined the Khazars,..an amalgam of Turkic clans..that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE..*and converted to Judaism in the 8th century.

The Judaized Empire..was continuously reinforced
with Mesopotamian..and Greco-Roman Jews..until the 13th century.

but so much..is planned
for long term advantage..like destroying the 'maccabees'..[read iranians..is ancient blood fued]..but only to\..*the seminte line of judism..

why destroy..by self-
destruction,..for non/semite..not jew

but
just talking about jew..raises the ire/complaint..
but heck..im a jew..AND IM ABORIGONAL..i met many muslim first aussies..!

and im not saying go there..nor stay away
but come in peace/.

./leave your gun..in the homeland of war..come into jeruseallothem..in peace..love of bother in thy heart..

http://whatreallyhappened.com/


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/neoconservatives-planned-regime-change-throughout-the-middle-east-and-northern-africa-20-years-ago.html

all creation..belongs to god
you want to own it all..make your own!
http://www.blogtips.com/2012/09/decentralized-internet-being-built-to.html

peace not pieces

If I were 40 years younger & know what I know know I'd become a brain surgeon specialising in lobotomy. I'd never be out of work just treating our present Government.

what we are seeing is a topic that moved fast..from its posting..late yesterday..to the same commenting through the night

its now up to our sunday media..to clear this up
and for xtians..to more than ever get over creed/greed/fear
and love each other..

even if it kills them..they dont fear death..death has no sting..because we are spirits..having a life 'expiernce'..before picking our role for eternity

that we love and hate haunts us for eternity

this is a combined attack..led by athiests..and anti love
the only cure is truelly to LOVE OTHER*

unite the christs divided house
unite the messengers of gnosis house//peace be upon them all

unite..behind a shield of love

be revealed by your love charity to other

unite not for you..but him ..you claim to represent..by grace/mercy

re-presnt >>..the gift*
charity as love to other
brother not bother

dont be ammoung those
needing to explain to god/..the good LIFE GIVER*

why you took ..an others life?
or didnt try tyo stop that the bible says will KILL/

MURDER two thirds
iof not cut short

cut it off at the knees now
the stars of media/sharon..cause they mention both of you

thus you sit dead..waiting what..to turn off the machine..AT EGSACTLY..the right moment..to distract from what

army getting it on iran..?
then global war when us gets into the lies
then the war monger end ytimer?
or the corperate cocconut..peascernick ion the inmside..assasin by choice/presidential order

or the other maybe end time..CHRISTIAN
but to which twisted creed of the most holy christ

peace be upon him

or the civil riots
via diebolt fraud in the voting machines..

or the uk riots..yet islamic riot
great excuse for racists..to do thier plan

Makes great news doesn't it?

Cameras scanning signs about beheadings,
an apparently violent angry crowd - throwing
things at police - how many in the crowd
exactly? 100?

The cameras don't scan the speakers asking the
protesters for calm, or even people amongst the
group trying to do the same. That's not news.

I'm not condoning any form of violence - be at
at protests, football matches, of political rallies.
However, I still feel that we can't blame the
actions of a few on the many.
And I do question the agenda of those that came
prepared to obviously cause trouble - when the
speakers kept asking for calm from the crowd (as
reported in The Sydney Morning Herald).

Still, I guess - presenting images of signs about
beheadings fits in with some people's images of
Islam. It conjures forth images of women behind veils,
of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their
hands cut off, of public floggings and executions,
of martyrdom in holy wars, and, in extreme cases, of
political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings
and terrorist bombings.

This picture is rather distorted, but it is based on what
is newsworthy rather than what is typical.

I think that right now the Islamic community as indeed every other religious community, has a perfect opportunity to rid themselves of their fanatically destructive elements. Many of these rioters are on video & one leader has actually said he had recognised some on TV.
So, all you religious communities show your integrity & your commitment to integrity now.
Openly EXPELL those rioters from your places of worship. Do that & your communities will be bee seen in the light you want to be seen in.

Thank you, Lexi, for your call for calm and your sensible admonition that we not cast blanket blame on all Muslims. Religion has no boundaries. Sadly, neither does fanaticism.

Before we continue bemoaning the fate of ‘our great nation’ (rehctub), can we pause for a moment to look at the bigger picture?

The timeline (in brief from Wikipedia):

<<Months after it was shown once in a Hollywood theater, two film trailers were released on YouTube, in July 2012. The trailers were dubbed into Arabic, and then spread by Egyptian American blogger and Coptic Christian Morris Sadek.
On September 8, 2012, a two-minute excerpt from the film was broadcast on Al-Nas TV, an Egyptian Islamist television station. Violent protests against the film broke out on September 11. The protests spread to Libya, Yemen and other Arab and Muslim nations over the following days, included the 2012 diplomatic missions attacks, incorporating an attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, that resulted the deaths of U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans. The film has sparked protests around the world.>>

The film was written, produced and directed by individuals who all used pseudonyms to hide their real identity. Why? And why the release on Islamist TV just prior to the anniversary of 9/11? Hardly coincidental.

The question we should be asking is who stands to gain the most from spreading Islamic unrest, in the ME and around the world, AT THIS TIME?

- The Republicans and their supporters worldwide, 6 weeks before the US election?
- Israel, smarting from US refusal to take immediate military action against Iran?
- Iran, struggling under imposed international sanctions?
- Syria, embroiled in civil unrest?
- Opponents of the Arab Spring?
- Coptic Christians and their supporters seeking to stir the pot?

Pick any one of the above and you’d be close. The one certainty is the country with the least to gain by the unrest at this time is the US.

This ‘stunt’ could well cost Obama the election and take us all a step closer to war in the ME.

Lexi I've spoken to someone who was there, it was over 300 people by his estimation and there were no "calls for calm" and there was no peaceful protest, they saw the Police, they attacked, it was as simple as that. At least we know whose side you're on Lexi.
Lexi these are dumb Arabic hoodlums, street crims and bikies, they're "Muslim" when it suits them, watch the Rami videos I posted, at least he's honest about some of his people, I won't even say it's a minority because it's not, this is how they think and act everywhere.
Dearborn Michigan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EA4zr7xLyk
Notice the same stupid haircuts as the Sydney mob, same clothes, same attitude, same blind aggression for no reason.
Lexi this might send a shiver down your spine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irmX_Uii758&feature=related
This is from London, do you go out and join with your commie mates and join in these types of events Lexi? The socialist alternative was front and centre in the Sydney event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekysuei-c-Q

Lexi: I know that you mean to be the voice of reason, considering all sides of the argument, or in this case the rioting, BUT the images that you speak of are representative of the teachings of the Quiran, beliefs that these people live and die for!

There are obviously a lot of problems within the teachings of Islam, as is indicated by some devotees who claim that their religion does not believe in or advocate violence against another human being, whilst at the same time we hear others screaming "Death to the Infidels!"....this like many other forms of religous fervour needs to be subjected to very close scrutiny and cleaned up before we are all embroiled in another Crusade.

We don`t hear the Catholics,Presbyterians,Baptists or similar religous groups advocating death or violence against members of other faiths for feigned infringements of the rules, so why should we as a so-called civilized society have to accept it from these malcontents?

I think that our Government should heed the warnings coming from "real Aussies" and cease allowing all the world`s garbage to fill our country with racial violence and contempt for our way of life, simply because Australia has been known to be a believer in the policy of "fair go"!....what about a "fair go" for us and our families and their families in years to come?

Stop the rot now,... before it is too late!

Lexi, this is no time for your bleeding heart approach, it is time for action.

It was eledged that some 7 odd abettors in Malisia used inhumane practices, 7 of 77, the government shut the whole show down.

I am afraid it's time to shut this rubbish down.

If I had my way I would get rid of the lot of them. As racist as that may be, it would solve the problem.

Terrorism in Australia is a ticking time bomb, just waiting to explode.

I say, remove the cause, as prevention is always better than cure.

BTW, I saw people in the crowd trying to instil calm as well.

Rechtub,
Islam is not the problem, it's so called "Muslims", Islam is a military doctrine which was used by Arabic colonists across the globe, these Lebanese thugs are not colonists, most of them were born here, if they see themselves as Australian then they have no business with Islam. There is no "moderate" version of Islam, only violent and non violent methods of spreading it's message, these kids are violent by nature so they are attracted to Islam when it's teachings are acted out in a violent way, the rest of the time they couldn't be bothered, it's too much reading and they're too dumb to understand the finer points of scripture anyway.
Scribbler,
Cui bono? Exactly right,it's alleged that the state agents and provocateurs known as "Socialist Alternative" were at the centre of the outbreak of violence, I've witnessed this with my own eyes in other circumstances, they instigate and direct violence against Police and encourage the "Hoople Heads" in the crowd to do the same. One time I saw them encouraging two obviously mentally handicapped men to give "Hitler Salutes" for the cameras at an anti racism rally.

Butch, Belly and Kactus,
I agree with you blokes, now what action to take?

Firstly most of the protestors are Aussie born, so they cannot be deported, probably second or even third generation.

Changes are needed to the immigration act so we can discriminate and stop those groups from coming here that have shown us they cannot/will not integrat. Action has to be political.

To enable this, the agreement that the major parties have about not questioning, discussing or campaigning about immigration issues MUST be torn up. Let us see what the major parties can alter their policies to and go from there.

If we can discriminate about alien cultures in immigration we can then prevent muslims, or any other groups, from coming here. The we can toughen up our citizenship requirements and the laws regarding deportation. Our aim should be for a cohesive society.

We have an election coming up soon so now is the time to lobby the major parties about change and not simply accept their tut,tutting.

Change must begin with the politicians in Canberra.

The moslems display all the characteristics of people with a behaviour problem.
They over react to fancied insults or decisions that they do not like.
I suspect that it is related to their genetics and to their inbreeding
by cousin marriage.
It would explain many things including the high rate of genetic faults
in babies born at Auburn Hospital.
See Dept Heath report to NSW parliament in Hansard.
Likewise report to UK parliament from Midlands Heath Dept.

People with behaviour problem become obsessed with ideas like support
of particular sporting clubs or in this case religion.
They often over react to any situation.
The first thing that should be done is to ban cousin marriage.

It's "mankind" who has the "behavioural problem".

I'm going to sit next to Siddhartha and listen to the river.

Lexi my sweet, it really is time to grow up.

Hiding your head in the sand so as not to see what is before your eyes is a mugs reaction. It is this mugs action, or the attempt to buy Muslim votes that has brought us this problem, & hiding it won't fix it.

Remember when 4 of these curs jumped out of a car, & attacked my son, while he was simply walking home in Sydney. With their cries of get whitey they were out to injure. If a couple of cars of people driving by had not stopped & chased them off he would be dead or a vegetable now.

This stuff is going on all the time, & doesn't even make the news. This could be by design, but is probably just too common to be newsworthy.

The longer we wait to sort this lot, the greater price we will pay to do it.

Belly and Butch,
To be critical of a persons behaviour, a religion or culture is NOT racist. Dont let anyone argue that it is.

Identify those who punched first, take them all to an isolated island along with the morons who made the video & those who distributed it.
Problem half solved. the second half will depend on the reaction of what transpires after the first half.
Btw. it's not as outlandish as you might think at first. There are plenty islands around Australia where this experiment could be tested. A Navy boat full of prototype National Service people could keep an eye on it all.

Remember 1 thing these are the same religion (or lack of it) that are coming on the boats as refugees and most boats have 95% men. I have said before this is possible a deliberate action by Malaysia and Indonesia to undermine Australia.
They can stop most of them coming if they want to by introducing visas for them and return tickets and most important a few questions when they arrive. The know they are not going home after a holiday they are going to Australia.
The more that come the weaker Australia gets and more bankrupt.

The police should not have used the dogs they did not clear them fast enough.
INSTEAD I propose the police have a new recruit PIGS (real ones) now if they are real Muslims they will soon run from a pig.

Some are quick to find excuses

Scribblers says:
<<The question we should be asking is who stands to gain the most from spreading Islamic unrest, in the ME and around the world, AT THIS TIME?>>

Then proceeds to list off the usual suspects: The Republicans, Israel, opponents of the Arab Spring and Copts (the latter is particularly *insensitive* given that the Copts have borne the brunt of Islamic discrimination and terrorism for a millennium). The only ones she misses are the Elders of Zion!

The real question here is NOT WHO sought to provoke, but WHY were/are so many easily provoked.
Why were so many –who had not even seen the film – so willing to vent their fury on society.
One of the corner stones, the defining qualities, of our pluralistic (postmodernist) society is that peoples beliefs are open to challenge.
Once again we are being given a wake-up call that in many cases it is not our values that attract people to our shores.

Scribblers also gives us a timeline for the lead up to the troubles:
<<Months after it was shown once in a Hollywood theater, two film trailers were released on YouTube, in July 2012.>>
A more informative timeline might have started like this:
637 the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem
711 - 718 the Muslim conquest of Spain
1453 the Muslim conquest of Constantinople

And Scribbler strains credulity by asking :
<<The film was written, produced and directed by individuals who all used pseudonyms to hide their real identity. Why? >>
WHY!
Um, please read up on what befell Salman Rushdie , Dutch film director Theo van Gogh and what was planed for those behind the Danish cartoon

@ Poirot ,

<<I’m going to sit next to Siddhartha and listen to the river>>
Alas, mediating peacefully by the river will not save you when the jihadis come …

"The Mussalman invaders sacked the Buddhist universities of Nalanda, Vikramshila, Jagaddala, Odantapuri to name only a few. How the Buddhist priesthood perished by the sword of the Muslim invaders has been recorded by the Muslim historians themselves.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Islamic_Onslaught6.htm

But you might be lucky, Poirot, one might spare your life and make you his fourth wife…hmmm, on second thoughts you might be better off with the death option.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sydney-protests-have-damaged-australias-multicultural-reputation-barry-ofarrell/story-e6frg6nf-1226475010678
Another link.
And yes from the other side of politics than mine.
He in this matter has my support.
I admit, in an effort to be kind, nice, even handed, my party, SOME of its supporters, often, overlooks the national feelings on this issue and yes others, boat people.
Kid your self, but you are trying to paddle up a water fall PC an in my view evil thing!
Haunts us even here.
I will just bet, as he MUST, our Host Graham is concerned.
Will we go too far.
Will some ill-equipped to find a balance push us to the wrong headlines, even see, and it has taken place the lifeblood advertising away.
Let us not do that.
But too let us not cringe in the corner.
If we, the contributors to OLO, marched yesterday in the heart of once moderate Egypt, or any Muslim City.
Chanting the filth of yesterday, holding signs asking for the be heading and for respect for CHRISTIANITY?
We would now be dead, the women raped first.
Care to say it is not true?

I've been sitting here trying to think of the best
way to reply to those who think I'm looking at things
through "rose-coloured glasses." I don't think that's
what I'm doing. I simply don't believe in blaming an
entire group of people for the actions of a few fundamentalists
in their group. I'm not condoning the violence by any means.
I am against violence - and the breaking of our laws - no
matter who does it - and I do believe that people who break
our laws should pay the penalties for doing so.

What I am trying to avoid here though is making generalisations
about a religion that I don't know that much about - and
how many of us really do? What's on the news and in the papers -
does often not portray the reality of things as we know.
And, fundamentalists exist in all religions not only in Islam.

Anyway, this protest has been condemned by Muslim Leaders in
Australia and I can only trust that this will discourage
the fundies from taking this sort of violent action in the
future. It has done a great deal of harm to whatever cause
they thought they were protesting.

Thanks for the advice, SPQR.

I was referring to Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha...all he needed (in the end) was a river.

All I'm seeing here - and in the riots -and in the world - are insecure bickering humans...such is life.

Calm your farm Belly, nobody is going to get into trouble.
Premier O'Farrell is stil trying to say that this is a "minority" of Muslims and that multiculturalism is the key to our success, both of which are such blatantly stupid ideas that it's sure to reduce normal people's opinion of his administration even further.
The phrase "Diversity is our greatest strength" was a talking point invented for a specific "Anti Racism" campaign by the Israeli lobby group the ADL in the U.S.A, it was then adopted by America's political caste after it was written into a speech for Bill Clinton.
The problem is that people like the Premier keep repeating what is obviously a dumb idea which has no basis in fact and is contradicted at every turn by what any normal person observes in their daily life.
Muslims don't believe in "diversity" and how, pray tell does diversity factor into their colonialist military doctrine called Islam, you're either a Muslim or you're not in their view.
O'Farrell has no choice but to repeat these stupid platitudes, he's stuck between a rock and hard place on this issue because there are a lot of misinformed people who are less intelligent than he but who nonetheless vote for him and they really believe in this "diversity" foolishness.

SPQR,

Actually, contrary to your assertion, I am not trying to find excuses for the outbreak of violence following the release of the film on Islamic TV. I am trying to understand the motivations behind such a deliberate move. Naturally, this begs the question: who has the most to gain? Perfectly reasonable, I would have thought and I fail to understand your rancour.

By not taking into consideration the reliance by whoever backed the YouTube clip upon the radical element of Islam to rise up in protest, we are only seeing a tiny part of the picture.

Of course, for those who only want to use the riots as an excuse to rant about the genetic inbreeding of Muslims (Bazz), the terrifying influx of ‘illegal’ male boat people – clearly a no-so-subtle move by Indonesia to undermine our wonderful country – (Phillip S), advocate violent punishments against all and any such protests (individual), cast blanket blame on all Muslims for the actions and incitements of a radical element (Jay of Melbourne), call for legal discrimination against Muslims in this country (Banjo), differentiate between ‘real Aussies’ and those Islamic usurpers (crackcup) and bemoan the deterioration of ‘our great nation’ by allowing Islam a place in ‘our’ society (rechtub), then anything I say or any questions I ask will have no effect. C’est la vie.

My biggest concern about some of the views expressed here is that if Sydney had experienced no riots, this thread would probably never have started, even though the same violence is simmering world-wide. To restrict our views to only what happens on our doorstep is really alarming.

To quote Beryl Bainbridge: “If you hold an object that close to your eyes, you shut out the rest of the world”.

That said, thanks for taking the time to respond.

A crowd of Union members dressed similarly blocking access to Grocon chanting slogans!

A large crowd of people with funny hats, painted faces, similarly dressed sitting/standing around a large lawn shouting and chanting slogans at a two groups of thugs fighting over a ball.

A crowd lead by men who wear dresses and wearing funny hats that protect paedophiles consider women as second class congregating and chanting slogans.

A crowd of lefties meeting in a big conference centre dressing similarly chanting slogans.

A crowd of righties meeting in a big conference centre dressing similarly chanting slogans.

I could go on but I think I have illustrated my point. These as well as the so called Islamic riot are an exercise by those who desire power, influence and reward from the ignorant and gullible. The reality is there is no God of any franchise. There are no photos, recordings or documentaries. We do know God has a penis as most of them are referred to as “he”, which suggest they are invented by a males. I can’t imagine what he would do with it. The propaganda says even Mary was a virgin. Perhaps there is a Mrs God or perhaps God has a same sex partner.

I believe we can reduce the problems the above and other example not mentioned by:

Ignoring them.
Removing their tax free status.
Not subsidising them.
Not accepting any form of violence or intimidation.
Removing advertising as a tax deductable expense.
Reduce your ignorance and gullibility.
Don’t seek power.

I wonder if god could be a rich lawyer or wears buggie smugglers.

Quote: Anyway, this protest has been condemned by Muslim Leaders in Australia and I can only trust that this will discourage the fundies from taking this sort of violent action in the future.

Muslim leaders always condemn this type of behavior, every time it happens, time after time (wink) (wink) (giggle) (ha ha ha)

They are laughing at us and not even behind our backs.

Instead, ask a Muslim leader to condemn the hate and violence in the Quran.

Ask a Muslim leader to condemn the evil actions of their dear Prophet.

Ask a Muslim leader to not just condemn the legal and cultural discrimination practiced against non-Muslims in Islamic societies, but to actually do something about this - but don't hold your breath.

The only thing that will discourage these so-called fundies (and the so-called moderates that support them) is to ship their collective arses back to Islamland

scribbler:
I disagree with totally on this issue! We should concentrate on our own country and our own internal problems, and every other country in the world should do the same.

For too long now various countries have interfered with the performance and occurrences within other countries, (there are usually vested interests behind it), and more likely than not the interferance is of a covert nature to alter the political balance accordingly.

Nationalism in Australia has generally been lacking for quite some time now, and it is time that we Aussies became a little introverted and exercised some of the fervour exhibited by other nations on a regular basis, instead of simply cheering a winning football team, or applauding a victorius Olympic competitor! This is the cement that bonds a nation together, Nationalism, the taking of pride in one`s own country, flag and symbolism!

I may live to see the day when Australia will have a national leader with outstanding intestinal fortitude and the ambition to genuinely improve the internally perceived concept of a free and democratic country beholden to no one.

I may live to see the day when this national leader will stand up and make a regular speech to the nation, applauding the successes of the achievement of loyalty, at the same time castigating those citizens who defame or bring disrepute upon this country. This would require a leader of vision, strength and most of all...honesty!

The time has arrived whereby we as a nation have to forego the tugging of the forelock, cast off any perceived loyalties to other nations, nations who consider Australia to be simply another source of cannon-fodder for exotic forays into their own national endeavours!

Scrib, Do you want to understand the motivations behind these riots?

It is power! It is because Muslims need rage and it gives them respect. This is not really about a stupid film, but a chance to be angry and to show that anger.

That rage may not impress your or me, but it makes our mealy-mouthed, weak-legged, pee-in-their-pants leadership in government, the media and academia tremble. "Oh my, we have offended those pure, suffering Muslims. How horrible we are! Let us grovel and maybe, oh maybe, they will love us!" To our leaders, our rights and traditions are of no importance compared to the hurt feelings of Muslims.

There will be more and more of this, and it is all Muslims, not just the so-called fundies. As I have said before, the radicals attack and kill, but the moderates make excuses and pretend this has nothing to do with Islam.

This will not end well. Blood will flow.

My post here at OLO, 2005
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3447&page=0#9922

I have serious doubts if there is even a "moderate" Muslim majority. It seems that 'extremist' Muslims persecute and kill, while 'moderates' make excuses, saying it has nothing to do with Islam and Muslims.

Islam is intolerant and promotes hate. Period. Or maybe it is just coincidence that almost all Muslim countries are major human rights abusers, that women, minorities and other religions are oppressed. No wonder they want to come to the West - and when they arrive in numbers in a Western country, they bring their intolerance and violence with them. The issue of rape is old. Do a Google search for "rape", "Muslims" and the name of any country in Europe (or Australia).

Islam is what Muslims do, not what they say. The same is true for Christianity and Buddhists and every other religion. It must also be said that Islam is what Muslims do where they dominate, not where they are a minority.

I don't even believe that Muslims want honest dialogue. They want to set rules so they are exempt from criticism, and cannot be offended.

Well, If Muslims have a right to be offended by what people say about their religion, I have a right to be offended about what Muslims do to women, or to other religions where they dominate. I am offended by a belief that calls itself a "religion of peace" and then immediately starts making threats (ask Irshad Manji or Hirsi Ali!). I am offended by a religion that states that "there is no compulsion in religion" on a web page, and on the same page says that any Muslim leaving Islam should be put to death. I am offended by people that say Mohammed was a shining "example", and do not consider *people murdered, robbed, tortured, raped and enslaved by islam's prophet (*edited for length)

The fact is that the "muslim" problem is not going away. Within about 5 years it will become a major social issue, and people will get hurt, unless Muslims change and become tolerant. That probably won't happen.

Well it would seem the actions of the intolerant have given the intolerant on OLO a call to action. Fear is playing its part in both the initial protests and the responses.

The promise of what my country is and will be in the future will be flagged in its responses to this issue.

Many of the post above are touting regressive, violent, nationalistic, racist solutions but are born from fear and ignorance.

My love of this country lies in my belief that we are far better than that. Time will tell if that faith is well founded. I hope for all of us it is.

@Producer,

Was intrigued by your suggestions.

<<I believe we can reduce the problems the above and other example not mentioned by:
Ignoring them.
Removing their tax free status.
Not subsidising them.
Not accepting any form of violence or intimidation.
Removing advertising as a tax deductable expense.
Reduce your ignorance and gullibility.
Don’t seek power.>>

For this lot:
-Removing their tax free status.
-Not subsidising them.
-Removing advertising as a tax deductable expense.
The Humans Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission would like to know who you mean by “them” and “their”?

And, for these two:
-Not accepting any form of violence or intimidation
-Ignoring them.
I would like to know how you reconcile the two.
I mean,I envisage it would work something like this:The Harbour Bridge suddenly disappears in a puff of smoke and we say
“I’m not going to be provoked …I will ignore that”


And,as to these two:
-Reduce your ignorance and gullibility.
-Don’t seek power
Siddhartha and the ghosts of 10,000 Buddhist monks want to know why their great wisdom didn’t blunt the swords of their jihadi murders?

Cheers

@Scribbler

<< I fail to understand your rancour.>>
Rancor?
Hardly …more like good natured incredulity.
After all –unless I am mistaken – you were implying on an earlier thread that all such woes were the result of the West interfering in the Middle East—prior to that all was bliss.

*I'm going to sit next to Siddhartha and listen to the river.*

Well Poirot, that is exactly why I live out in the country, far
from the maddening crowds.

*racist solutions but are born from fear and ignorance.*

Well no Csteele, it just ain't that simple. I challenge you to do
what I did, go through the history of islam and understand what it
is all about and what the different branches of it, actually believe.
On any objective analysis, I concluded that it is a violent religion
by nature, as distinct from say Budhism, it is also divisive. So where Islam
goes, trouble usually follows. That is just the reality
of it, suck it up

I'v just received a detailed eyewitness account form a comrade who was right in the thick of the melee, I won't post it all because it's too long but here is the core of his comment:

"Whatever calmer elements existed (and they did, there were lots on the sidelines) the greater mass went to join the fracas. It was the women and children and those who obviously didn't approve who kept out. There were children yelling things and carrying placards. And frankly, I was there (redacted). I was right there when it kicked off. I was always going to be -- as I had to pass through there to get to my gym. Which I did. Heh.

I could put it in a nutshell: I reckon there's a persuasive core of this community that really wants to get the nod from the brothers overseas -- kind of like an Aussie chapter of the Hells Angels wanting to impress their big brother in America."

Well scribbler, I offered my suggestion of the cause of the riots as
I have seen behaviour problems and I can see how similar the behaviour
of individuals in the crowd was.
I can see that their religion is the "prompter" of the behaviour.
Genetic mental problems are consistent with behaviour problems.

That is why I suggest it as a cause of the problem.
Frankly when generation after generation you have cousin marriage you
are dead certain to be laying up problems for future generations.
Politicians are afraid to tackle this problem by making a law against
cousin marriage because it might offend moslems.

What puzzles me is that being an agricultural society originally they
should have known better. The reason they promoted cousin marriage was
to keep land in the family. There are better ways of doing that.

And Producer, all those you mentioned have one thing in common, they are no threat to our society, nor would I suspect you would find a terrorist among them, nor did they hold placards suggestion anyone be beheaded.

This is a sicko culture and to think our powers to be have let them just waltz right in and start practicing their rubbish hear.

I still say, get rid of them.

Dear rehctub,

you say to get rid of them?

How do you suggest we do that?
Who exactly do we target out of the group?
Do you know how many Muslims there are in
this country? Any idea of the stats?
Compare that number with how many were
there protesting.
And how do we select the ones to ship back -
and where to - if they are Australian citizens?
Or are second and third generation Aussies?

Dear Lexi,

You ask how and whom?

You silly duffer, I'm sure Butcher could find a few cattle cars from the 'decimated' live cattle trade and combine that with Bazz's expertise in genetics I'm sure a final solution could be organized. Just leave it to those two and we will be in safe hands, you don't need to worry your silly head about it any longer.

csteele I can only read a single line of yours.
And no other poster, see I remember tens of time you did as Kactuz says, said it is wrong BUT!
Kactuz has it right read the manual for murder they worship.
Who do we blame for these international riots?
Murders, be aware some who post here do not have other than others interests in mind.
The real loss is to the good and honest Muslims, yesterday, todays blindness from those not condemning it, will take 20 years to undo.
Yet more, it is just the start in those 20 years we will suffer far worse in the name of a God? read the koran!
We must confront a truth we have imported trouble extreme action alone can fix this, pay them to leave.

You have to hand it to the folk who made that movie, though, don't you. If in fact there is a movie - as far as I am aware, there is only a fourteen-minute "trailer".

It was clearly designed to create exactly the violent confrontations that we have seen. The religious fanatics have been encouraged, in the crudest and most transparent manner, to protest "blasphemy", which has in turn given the xenophobes full licence to vocalize their "towelheads go home" mantra. Perfect.

Both sides are demonstrating that they are so gullible, that such a nakedly blatant attempt to stir up trouble has been so wildly successful. And the filmmaker meanwhile sits behind his defence of "freedom of speech", knowing full well that the objective was not to exercise that freedom, but instead to make sure extremists on both sides of the religious fence react to the dogwhistle, and go for each other's throats.

So, credit where credit is due. Whoever is behind the "movie" has quite cynically exploited the credulity of bigots on both sides, and even now is probably giggling hysterically at how stupid and easily led people can be.

Dear Yabby,

You write “On any objective analysis, I concluded that it is a violent religion by nature” and “So where Islam goes, trouble usually follows. That is just the reality of it,”.

Yet when one looks at the history of the 20th century with Christians delivering the Holocaust and the genocidal mass slaughter in the Yugoslav conflict which was well into the later half of that period, all within 'modern' Europe, then any objective analysis hardly puts Islam at the head of the pack on the violence score.

I consider both Christianity and Islam as the bastard children of Judaism with all the insecurities implicit in that relationship. I think there was a very real fear dictating the movement of European Jewry after WW2 and their ultimate infliction on the Palestinians, you tell me who they feared the most in making that decision.

Dear Pericles,

Here is the TYT take on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dqHt6gsoxU&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=31&feature=plcp

And an update.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LU7t3mSHo&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=11&feature=plcp

Not that I agree entirely with Cenk but he does give an American perspective that is instructive though slightly unrealistic.

An interesting observation Pericles and one that I ponder about
sometimes. I don't claim to have all the answers. OTOH I did read
up a bit of evolutionary psychology and they claim that tit for tat
is in fact the best strategy in life. Turning the other cheek is
a dismal failure. It didn't work to well for the Jews, during WW2,
for instance.

My answer is to live in the country. You people can fight it all out
in the cities.I frankly don't think too highly of my species.

*with Christians delivering the Holocaust and the genocidal mass slaughter in the Yugoslav conflict*

Hang on Csteele, you confuse racism and tribalism with religious
hatred. I don't think that Hitler read the bible and interpreted
it as that he should wipe out the Jewish race.

There is a great book by Ali Dashti, a Persian who grew up attending
the Madrasses etc, but who eventually became a journalist. He wrote
a book called "23 Years", about the historical life of Muhammed.
He asked for the book to be translated into English and published,
after his death, which it was.

Muhammed was a very smart fellow, but he didn't get too far preaching
at first. So he formed an army and all those in his army were to
believe in his religion too. They started by raiding camel trains,
but before long they grew larger and larger and soon were taking
over whole countries. Muhammed had two sides. One moment he could
preach peace and love, the next he preached war. Dashti examines
all this. I suggest you perhaps read it, to further understand
what is happening globally and why. Its orgins are quite clear.

How many people have actually seen this Utube movie the Islamists have killed innocent people over? Maybe a lot of young computer nerds who spend hours watching politically extreme videos.
I’ll bet most of middle Australia and America haven’t even seen the second-rate, trashy, movie. It would be too boring to interest them.

What about the Christian religion and the “ Di Vinci Code” movie, which was actually a real movie seen on the big screen by a huge percentage of people in many countries and was disliked by the Christian church but it certainly didn’t result in people being killed. It was also a widely read bestselling book. Again no bloodshed by the Christians.

This shows how far the Christian religion has come in being able to accept criticism and questioning without murder as compared to the Moslem religion.

If the Moslems are so blessed by God, then how come so many of these Moslem countries are so overpopulated, poor and miserable compared to the abundance, freedoms and great way of life in Western countries? Looks to me as though God has blessed the Western countries not the Moslem countries. Isn’t that obvious.

Those rioting are just following the example of their prophet. Those with Christophobic natures continue to lump the two together. Secularism with its death culture has far more similarities to Islam than Christianity.

"Christians" had nothing to do with the so called "Holocaust" apart from opposing it, that's pretty much the most ignorant thing I've seen posted here in recent times, Fascism and NS is explicitly Pagan, you know, Pagan as in Rome?

Dear Yabby,

Reading is indeed instructive for the most part. Could I suggest you put Mien Kampf on your list. 

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
Hitler

So enthusiastically received was the book in Christian Germany that its sales made Hitler a millionaire.

And I don't think it was a coincidence  that after the Yugoslavian conflict Serbia was the first country in Europe to pass a law mandating Creationism be taught in schools.

Dear CHERFUL,

Yes let's take abundance as a measure of God's blessings. United Arab Eremites, Qatar and Saudi Arabia swimming in oil, incredible wealth, site of the holy city of Mecca. Poverty rates far less than the Christian USA, far less of their citizens behind bars, better health outcomes, huge foreign workforces doing all the crap jobs. If you want to worship the God of wealth bow Eastward my friend.

Dear runner,

Christians worship the sign of a death device and you have the temerity to call Islam a death culture?

Sending people "home" is definitely not an option for those born here, and probably not an option for those with citizenship, despite hysteria from both sides.

We have existing laws where the guilty can be judged and punished.

Also, history easily shows that Christianity - despite having a 300 year head start - has a vastly higher body count when it comes to killing people.

Quote: Christianity has a vastly higher body count

Well, maybe, but only if you restrict your data in both time (history) and space (geography) and accept the political to be the same as religious (not always true for the West, but a given for Islam).

Consider the conquest of India by the religion of peace. A common number given is 80 million Hindus dead. Then there are the Buddhists, whose civilization had once extended from China to Afghanistan. For all purposes, all Buddhists west of the Ganges River were exterminated by the followers of Mohammed (then people wonder why people in Burma don’t like Muslims!)

Here is a link about India about the magnitude of Muslim atrocities:
http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch7.htm

Do Muslims talk about this? No, of course not. Morality and forgiveness are for silly infidels. Muslims never talk about the evils they do or the barbaric acts of their dear prophet (“A noble example”)

It would be wise to remember the words of historian Will Durant from his 1935 book The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage (page 459):
“The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precarious thing, whose delicate complex of order and liberty, culture and peace may at any time be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within.”

Did anyone else notice the sign the little 5-6 year old Muslim boy was holding in the Sidney protests? You know, the one saying to “Behead those that insult Islam.” How cute!

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html
An other red neck link?
If you want, Sydney morning Herald.
Every word true.
We will see much more be insulted by our own even more often.
See we dare to be us.
Dare to use our freedom not as a weapon but to defend our selves from those who do.
Those linked as csteete has told us to the Community that did this.
Still will not enter the debate, what would be our fate, if we, any of us, marched in any Muslim country.
Throwing rocks and bottles at police.
How likely we would take our children to such events?
A focus on education to hate and no real chance to consider the rest of the worlds rights.
A need to be upset with such a pettiness?
In time we will know we imported trouble,
A blindness hiden within a faith that questions the faiths worth and those that see only our faults.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslim-group-refuses-to-condemn-rioters-20120916-260mj.html
Yes another link.
But this time from within the Muslim community.
I saw the close to lie, we see many in defense of these folk.
Christianity has its dead its child molesters, but only the Blind can say the world wide HATE generated over so little is not separate.
Be firm, be honest but be aware,the very left will side even with mass murderers ,for much the same reason these poor fools shoot their own feet.
To let them selves think they are part of a crowd.
Last link? came to from within this community.
The real hope comes from here, unfortunately hidden under the *it was wrong but* lie
We teach Evolution, but in the case of this faith let SOME from with in it question our rights in a country that gave them a home.
Say if you want less than the truth, I am wrong.
But we would not be welcome in the country they come from and not safe for sure.
Be aware!
This faith thrives on lies.

Well said, Kactuz

<<Consider the conquest of India by the religion of peace. A common number given is 80 million Hindus dead. Then there are the Buddhists, whose civilization had once extended from China to Afghanistan. For all purposes, all Buddhists west of the Ganges River were exterminated by the followers of Mohammed (then people wonder why people in Burma don’t like Muslims!)

Here is a link about India about the magnitude of Muslim atrocities >>
http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch7.htm

For too long the true history of Islam has been suppressed.

Wobbles,

<<We have existing laws where the guilty can be judged and punished>>

What’s the betting that we will soon start hearing from the usual sources: SBS/New Matilda/ABC, that the outbreak in Sydney was provoked by a police overreaction and entrenched racism in the force.

Islamic riot, Just another example of the stupidity of religions and how the superstitions of the devotees leads to outrages behavior. History is littered with the most grotesque and barbaric acts that mankind can inflict upon his fellow man, all in the name of god. All those who "believe" are to some degree, more or less, infected with the cancer of intolerance, hatred and loathing, it all goes hand in hand with the nonsense we call religion, be it Islamic, Christian or what ever brand you want to put on it. Religion, born in the dark ages and unfortunately has not as yet been consigned to the dust bin of history. I thank god, I am an atheist.

the stupidity of religions and how the superstitions of the devotees.
Paul1405,
Considering that most of these crapheads are australian born it is actually a sad & sombre reflection of the education system which has been pushed & pushed & promoted to saturation point at every election since I can remember & I can remember back to McMahon's Government.
Is this the result of the great education they receive & have access too ? I tell you why it is so. Kids get educated but they're not made to use their brains & learn because their teachers are just as simple.
The other factor is the "successful" multicultural society here. Those who still insist that we should just let everyone who comes by boat into Australia.
Well, you have been told by many countless times. Can you still not see ? The rot has started.
Our TV is not helping either. The Law too is responsible for much of what's developing.

@ Individual,

<<Considering that most of these crapheads are australian born it is actually a sad & sombre reflection of the education system>>

They need not have gone through the state education system . We now have any number of Islamic schools.
And a teacher from one such school was recently killed in Syria (guess what sort of world view he’d have been espousing!)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sydney-sheik-killed-in-syria-an-extremist/story-e6frg6nf-1226455271345

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-sheikh-killed-in-syria-reports-20120821-24k0

@ Paul,

Now, it’s easy to damn every one else’s sacred cows, but what of your own -- do you damn this holy roller also?
http://tinyurl.com/9777x52

SPQR, The TEA Party that is some kind of religion, made up of the extreme right christian lunatic fringe. Bought your 'protest' shirt yet. What hate message does it carry this week Ha Ha.

Kactuz; I read the link you gave, interesting.
http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/siii/ch7.htm

Where it was enlightening was that it puts the Pakistan/India problem
into an historical context.
It is interesting that the repercussions of a 14th century invasion
can still echo down the centuries and result in a nuclear standoff.

Should that not be a warning to us here & today ?

I believe that we can go on all, day every day, ranting and raving about a problem that we simply should NOT have!

It is time to examine the hard cold facts pertaining to these people. Are they the type of people that we really need in this country?
Their religous and traditional ways are so much different to ours. Here, if people don`t want to join a Church or a religion, then so be it. There is no pressure applied to compel them to become a member of a faith, by coercion or the use of violence, so why should we allow these people, who have vastly differing religous principles, and in our eyes are simply religous zealots, who according to our standards practice stone-age traditions and habits, populate our shores?

It is far too easy for Asylum Seekers to gain Australian Citizenship, and nothing disgusts me more than seeing an ethnic jibbering in their own language whilst waving a Naturalization Certificate,....the piece
of paper that legally prevents them from being deported, regardless of
whether they have even committed the most loathsome crime!

The fabric of our way of life is NOT being accepted by these people, they are simply using it as an excuse to escape from their own "traditionally impoverished" way of life, to set up camp here amongst us, while continuing their own traditional religous way of life and getting all the benefits of the Australian citizenship, and having paid not one cent in tax towards that entitlement!

This has to STOP now, before we are all compelled to conform to the Islamic ways in our own country and before we go broke paying for the mounting debt that has been created. If we do NOT heed the warning that this little movie "escapade" has created for us as a society, then we will perish under the weight of the Muslim population!

Great comment here on the topic. Puts it all nicely into perspective about what the protests are really about.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html

im seeing the old ones
the last leaseholders over these lands..sitting talking..
saying the ame things ..your all saying here...so they get police to shoot you..EURIKA*

yes send the boat people home
netherlands please..go hkme you brits exiles from your own HOMES

this place is hell..it bel;ongs to satan
we eecided..to send ..all of you home..or we do what you did to us

sounds really xtian dont it

one good student dont validate a good school
nor nessesarilly a good teacher..would you be judged by the sins of your father?

get over it..every ennnemy i sat down and talked with
tried to know..became a life long friend

we shared the same passions,
,for good or ill..we bought out the passions in each other..made us both better..[aty being ourself..than we were ourselves being..individually.

or some thin like that

Go monkeys go!

Pericles I tip my hat, I don't think there is much more to add.

Except that it might be a good day to be listening to Ray Hadley today for the comedy value.

That was a great article by Walleeeeeed Belly. I like that guy for some reason.

note to belly..i see that they go to their friday night
much like a unionist going on strike..leaving the union meeting all fired up

yes govt should outlaw gatherinjgs
ohh howard allready did..juliar aint recinded \nor reversed the trend..to fire up a mob..unions do it all the time..,

pot kettle mr bell
you been in the midst of a mob a unionists..a few times i hazard
and lest we forget warfie murder..better or worse..is where we come from

bomb them back to the stone age
and the greens saying jonnie was weak
so jonnie went to war..juliar hasnt bought them home

stop dropping bombs on folks
and they wont be set off to anger as easy

CLEARLT THEY ARE UNDER FIGHT..or flight
now who set that up?

for what
to make some more NIPS krauts..gooks,,.to go to war on these '10 beast..

by killing 10 million of them
that LOOK the same..in the jewish armogeddon

WHERE DOES THIS HATE END
go home whitie!

go home palistein

go HOME TAMAL-IES..but wait
they got no home just war war monger/COLONISERS
to busy..LOOTING AND PLUNDERING IT..yeah dont worry be happy

here come armogeddon
and you guys set the beat..beating the drums of murder

Csteele, the Nazis were not exactly religious. They also tried to
kill communists, marxists, gypsies, British, Russians and anyone
else who might stand in their way. The Jews were seen as a race,
not as a religion and were despised because of their business practises, more than anything.

All this is quite different from Islam, where for instance
Ayatollah Kohmeini and others made it quite plain that Islam was
in fact a violent religion. Why you have such trouble with
understanding the reality of that and try to go into denial about
it, beats me.

im not picking on a cheerfull quote/;;''If the Moslems are so blessed by God,..then how come so many of these Moslem countries are so overpopulated, poor and miserable compared to the abundance, freedoms and great way of life in Western countries?""

oh dear clearly your from a single family
never known the joys of family..even on a bombed out ruin and a dirt floor

they wash 5 times a day
we wash maybe twice..or hide under powerfull bad oder covering
as if our poop dont stink..i live in suburbia,..it take 20 minutes by car to get anywhere

they live cheek by jowel..everyone knows everyone
they tak at least 5 times a day..we last talked 9 weeks ago

yeah their barbarians
we adicts at watchinbg ammuasment..and other sex reoplacemengts..and they dont take any drugs

we lorded over by drunks/lawyer's

but back to your...?..opinion

""Looks to me as though God has blessed the Western countries
not the Moslem countries. Isn’t that obvious.""

yes it is..i see you really beliueve things are more important than living beings..WITH PASSIONS..not dulled by drugs

this is where your drug war on drug USERS reveals the truth
were just too stoned,,to care..so the drug lord cia..rendition drugs globally

its them giving them money
legalise drugs..by whole sale off farmers not criminals payiong for covert wars..on dug funbing..which is the whjole reasion behind the drug war

but also keep us in the labling mode
thatys not a man..thays a druggie a nip a louse jap or a pew-tred whitie..ITS ALL THE SAME DIVED AND LOOT*

colonisers stealing that not theirs
if usa thinks its going to get gold yet again..when it kills the gold hoarders..give the gold to the poor..not bombs

Kactus, Your 2005 post was spot on and I will save it for future reference.

It is now obvoius that the attacks on US embassies was planned and the riots about a film are only an excuse to show their disdain and contempt for our western civilization.

We have welcomed all cultures into Aus and these riots show us just how much some appreciate it. They have no interest in our country and only contempt for our society.

There is evidence aplenty that we need to stop the immigration of those who refuse to integrate and this measage must be made clear to Canberra. Forget the illogical ideology of multiculturalism and work toward making a cohesive community.

These muslim rioters are third generation Aussies who have been indocrinated by their parents, as the pic of the child with the placard shows. They begin the hatred in the cradle. We cannot deport them, but we can stop more entering which is the message that has to be taken to Canberra.

PM calls Islamic protest ‘un-Australian’. Will that's what the headline says, with quotes, but I think the actual quote was, in reality land, 'Not the Australian Way'.

Apparently correct quoting is out of fashion with 'journalists', or more likely sub-editors are actually monkeys.

But it does bring me back to a time, when a father figure of the right, one John Winston Rodent Howard, was hated by the left for his 'Un-Australian' bandying, while the right accused them of being 'Howard haters'.

The right must have been right, as there is not even a hint of discontent with Ms Gillard bandying it about, whistling to the same dogs.

Now, when will the left denounce the 'Un-Australian' bandying Gillard? Or would that be misogynistic?

Anyone been to the TEA Party (Australia) web site, like these religious fools they are caught up in a mind set of hateful bigotry. An off shoot of the US party of the same name, feeding on peoples fears and insecurities, doing their best to insight division in the community. Naturally this mob hold strong religious views, all part of their negative "program". Their aim is control of society something akin to National Socialism but with a religious flavor.

We were equally disgusted with the CFMEU thugs in Melbourne recently.

Every group has thugs.

The only thing that i did not like was the lady spokes person who was on Radio National the next day. She keep saying that "the Muslim community don't support their actions..it is against the teaching of the Koran"...She said this about 20 times and she missed the point.

We dont care if the actions are against the teaching of the bible or playboy. They are against the law and what she should say is that they are "unacceptable in Australia, our home as they are against the law."

They need to understand that when someone is killed or raped we dont say that their action is against the 10 Commandments. Get religion out.

Any one who breaks the law should cop it and anyone who lives here needs to understand that they buy into a "contract of citizens" that rides above all religions.

Yes and the Catholic Church and all of their priests need to understand this!

We need to be FANATICALLY anti-fanatical. We need to get this citizens contract clear.

Neither is acceptable behaviour for protest in a democracy, but we have forgotten that there is precedence of course… But in a true Australian way, deserving of the capital 'r' in Riot.

Those returned soldiers in Queensland knew how to do it properly with the Red Flag Riots.

(I'm ignoring the Newcastle Star Hotel riot on the basis it was legitimate because it involved a pub – and a song was written about it.)

Well you Politically Correct, Greenie, Do-Gooders, this is your thanks, and, you are campaigning for more of the same people to be let loose in Australian Society.

I'm waiting for all the do-gooders on this Forum to come in & make excuses for the riots. Crying that it's all the fault of Australians racism.

NO MORE MUSLIMS! & those here that have not got Citizenship, straight back to where they came from.

Right on cue, Jayb : )

This should have been called "The No More Muslims" thread.

Pericles called it accurately.

The funny thing about this situation.
The film that they are protesting over portrays Mohammed as he actually was.
He was a warlord with absolute power over his subjects.
He married a six (some say 9) year old girl.
Held numerous executions.
Anybody that doubted that he was talking to Allah (God) was executed.

Quote: “The only thing that i did not like was the lady spokes person who was on Radio National the next day. She keep saying that "the Muslim community don't support their actions..it is against the teaching of the Koran"...She said this about 20 times”

Oh? It is against the teachings of the Quran, is it? Well, well. Maybe she should actually read the Quran before saying such BS.

There are several hundred verses in the Quran that teach hate and violence toward non-Muslims and about twelve that say somewhat nice things about us. Guess which they quote to us?

Here are just a few of the heavenly treasures that Allah sent down to Mohammed… these include verses that tell Muslims to not be friends with those evil non-Muslims (3:28; 5:51), verses to attack and kill others (2:286; 3:148, 47:35; 9:73; 9:123; 48:29), and verses that say infidels are stupid and evil (3:110-111; 25:44; 8:55; 98:6; 2:171) and so on…

Maybe these are harmless sayings, with no consequence, or maybe they explain the almost universal hate, discrimination and violence against non-Muslims in Islamic societies – and the antagonism against non-Muslims in host countries where Muslims have migrated to flee from the problems they have created in their own societies.

Then they come to the West and they bring their vile prophet in their hearts. What could go wrong?

Does anybody think that these people are going to get kicked out of the mosque? Next Friday they will be praying in the front row, their rear-ends higher than the rest, farting on our values and traditions.

Another post from 2005, after the London bombings. Irfan, a Muslim writer here at OLO, said I was a “hater”. My response:

Irfan… You think I hate you? If you want to find hate, look at Muslim web sites or Imams throughout the Islamic world. Try to understand that if a person does not agree with Islam and argues against it as a belief, it is not hate. This is called “freedom of speech” because of “differences of opinion”.

What I feel towards Muslims can best be described as “despair”. As for Islam, the proper word would be “contempt”. I dislike it as a belief; but even that is not the problem. The issue is not bad theology but that Islam is dangerous to the health of progressive societies. Have you ever asked yourself what is wrong with Islam? Why do Muslims have so many problems other groups or religions don’t seem to have? Google “Muslims” “Europe” and “crime” or “rape” or substitute any other country. Have you ever seen a Buddhist having to say “Buddhism is a religion of peace”? Why is crime among Hindu immigrants a small fraction of that among Muslims in England? Do you ever wonder why so many Muslims want out of Islamic countries? Remember those poor 400 souls that drowned off Australia several years ago… They were from every Islamic country on the map. Tell me, Irfan, do you have a clue?

As Muslims move to the West they use our freedoms to subvert our institutions. I quote Tony Parkinson (The Age):

“The compact under multiculturalism is that each community within a society must have the freedom to sustain its own identity, traditions and culture. But there is a quid pro quo and that involves universal acceptance of a broad system of shared values…. Multiculturalism is at a moment of truth. The drift from melting-pot altruism into salad-bowl separatism has morphed into something more sinister: the existence within Western cultures of a hostile religious sect that renounces absolutely the principles on which our societies are structured.”

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3651&page=0#10907

poirot,
I reckon you are wrong.

If there was the remotest suggestion of a conspirosy, Arjay's radar would have picked it up. Has pericles taken over from Arjay as our conspirosy theorist?

Nah, the muslims have just used the film as an excuse to vent their hatred again, just like they did with the silly catoons.

We should not have to put up with it, but it is our fault, we should choose our immigrants more carefully.

They really love us....

Take a look at this:

http://www.muslimsrise.com/flyer.html

Look at the posters...

Read the text...

Watch the videos...

Quote: In this volatile and fast changing political climate, Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia will convene its major annual conference to address these uprisings, what the potential results are, the method for true Islamic change and the false ideas and approaches that will lead only to failure. Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia invites you to join us in not only looking at the Muslims world of today, but in casting our eyes forward and looking towards the Muslim world of tomorrow under the shade of Islam insha Allah.

And they tell us these people contribute to Australia and enrich our lives.... This is how they repay kindness.

Now we know why the riot ended so quickly -- they had to make it to the conference.

Csteele
(First let me say my assertion was in response to the moslems that said our dead were going to hell whereas their dead were going to paradise.)

when I said “abundance, freedoms and great way of life in Western countries?” I was not talking soley solely about wealth, I was also talking about enlightenment and freedoms in Western cultures.

I for one would not like to be a woman in Saudi Arabia, although I think they are better than some moslem countries. Women in these countries are just used as birthing incubators for men and don’t have much freedom to choose otherwise. The moslem leaders ignore the fact
That human overpopulation is the driving force behind most of the worlds discontent and environmental troubles. Like the extinction of lions and tigers and green house gases. Overpopulation is also driving starvation and ethnic genocide resulting in the millions of refugees in the world.

Their attitude is, don’t worry Allah will fix it all. Maybe Allah is waiting for them to show some sense and lend him a practical helping hand in fixing it themselves, considering the contraceptive pill, plus other methods have been available for at least 40years.
Do they ever consider that Allah may wonder why they are so foolish in destroying the earth that can’t support these big populations?
I think the riots in Sydney and around the world are driven by fear.

Fear of the truth.
A lot of people in history have not wanted the truth to be the truth, even the Christian church in earlier times when they locked up the fellow who dared to say the earth wasn’t flat but round.
But the truth, is the truth, is the truth, no matter how much people may not want it to be.

This thread was posted at 4.09 PM on the 15th. I have only just received it at 7.30 on the 17th. That's why I'm a bit late with my input. 16 pages of reading to do. I'm only half way through reading as yet.

I see the Do- gooders have come to the defence of the rioters already. I suppose Lexi & co were in the mob chanting their support too.

The excuse that this is only the fanatic fringe does not wash. All Muslims believe that Shari a is the only Law they are willing to acknowledge. That being peaceful only applies to Muslims not to Infidels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVLKW7ixjU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yNrxYewhi0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvhDoFDGq6M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHt94EGrac&feature=related

The last one is Muslims plan for Australia. Interesting.

I know you won’t waste your time watching these Lexi. You have said you won’t watch anything that disproves your arguement.

UnderoneGod
“yeah their barbarians we adicts at watchinbg ammuasment..and other sex reoplacemengts..and they dont take any drugs”

Excuse me!, but those from Moslem religions are known for the fact that they rape every woman from other areas in sight,every time they commit ethnic violence. Maybe they would do better to watch sex and allow more sexual freedom in their countries so they wouldn’t be so rabid.

How much rape actually goes on in Moslem socities?. If you ask me it is probably open slather, because they know it is the poor little girl or woman who will be killed or punished and not them, and so women probably have to keep all the rapes quiet. Open slather.
They don't have date rape in Moslem societies they have State rape,
because of forced marriages and no justice for victims or rape.

As for the Tamils. You can’t blame the colonialists for them. These people are fleeing a tribal War they fought in Sri Lanka, to separate that country into 2 countries.(a separate state). The Tamils
immigrated to Sri Lanka from India at least a couple of centuries ago and then eventually decided they wanted a piece of that country for themselves.

The Sri Lankan indigenous population endured a 20year gorilla war fought by these Tamil Tigers before they finally routed them in recent times. Poor Tamils my fat fanny.
Probably get stoned to death for saying my fat fanny in public in an Islamic country. Grow up Islamic fundamentalists.
Why are you so afraid of sex, didn’t Allah create your sexual organs.
Did he make a mistake in doing this?

several people minninizing the fact that 25 of our fine police were assaulted. They also excuse union thugs when they do the same thing but castagate people who hold up signs protesting against a deceitful tax. The left are blind to their own anger/violence.

Banjo,

My point being that it's humans who have a steak of insanity running through them.

Good old "group-think" - anything that pushes the "hysteria" button gets things moving to a greater or a lesser extent - to a greater extent in the riot - to a lesser extent on this thread.

Driven by fear mostly....

This whole thing is sick now you have an 8 year old girl getting up in front of the Sydney conference spewing out this.
Quote "urged all Muslim youth to fight for the restoration of the Islamic caliphate, a single global government for all Muslims established under strict sharia law"
ALSO Quote "she yearns to once again live under the banner of (the Islamic state)"
I will gladly send Juliar an email saying she can use my taxes to pay for this girl and her family to go home where the parents originally came from. $10 says they would not go

URL for story
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/girl-8-calls-on-islamic-youth-to-back-jihad/story-e6frg6nf-1226475239074

Islam as a general rule does not advocate democracy.
This is because they do not make a distinction between religion and politics.
Religion is politics and politics is religion.
The aim is to establish the Caliphate over all the world or whatever
part they can dominate to enable sharia law to be implemented.
The Caliphate is a religious government.

So when a moslem swears allegiance to Australia in a naturalisation,
ceremony they do not mean it.
It is just a means to an end.
They pay taxes and obey the law (mostly) only because they have no
choice, while they await the caliphate to be established.

Just a general comment on Semitic peoples…………they are not good neighbours when they achieve critical mass. Most Semitic people come from the Middle East, with the exception of the few that travelled to Europe over a thousand years ago, the best known of these groups are the Ashkenazi Jews.

Semitic tribes, and they are still tribes, embrace a culture whose rules were laid down over two thousand years ago. They fight amongst themselves as much as they struggle against outsiders and tribal group thinking pervades the society.

I recall how the European Jews who inherited Israel in 1948 violently protested when Ethiopian Jews tried to immigrate to Israel. Later it was the Russian Jews who did not fit the bill and were and still are ostracized in Yiddish and Orthodox Israel cultures.

In most Semitic nations you have a culture divided, even the Mohammadans who never kicked off until 700AD found a divider for their new societies….Sunni or Shia. The point is that the Arab brother is only a brother if he is on your team, if not you can kill him, and they do regularly. So the expectation that they will accept an infidel or adopt the infidel’s culture or rules is post grad dreamtime.
TBC

Please do not recount to me about the Arabs or Jews who you have know for decades and they are ordinary folks, like yourself, because you are naively wrong. They are ordinary folks, but there is one major difference. You can never be like them because as they perceive it because you are not from their tribe, and as simplistic as that sounds it is fact and the primary fact that gives them their identity as a people and you are totally alien to it.

Multiculturalism has failed, but a multinational society that primary adheres to one culture but with grafts from the home country added works beautifully and enriches the host culture. We have seen it in the New World Countries such as America, Canada, and here in Australia. I have the vaguest of memories of the post WWII immigration intake, it was the first time I heard Australian spoken with an accent, except at the local Chinese restaurant. Then the supposedly dreaded hordes from South East Asia and Vietnam invaded us and became great citizens, who embrace Aussie culture while keeping their roots.

Then we imported the Muslims, the Semites, and we received exactly the afore described cultural character traits that sees chaos and upheaval as the norm rather than co existence. But it is a critical mass thing, they will wait before becoming vocal and demanding, it's starting now.

Hi Lexi,

Thank you for your post, it sort of sums up ... I don't know .... a certain perspective ?

I was intrigued by your comment: "presenting images of signs about beheadings fits in with some people's images of Islam." It does indeed. So why were such posters being carried, some by children ?

As you elaborate: "It conjures forth images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their hands cut off, of public floggings and executions,of martyrdom in holy wars, and, in extreme cases, of political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings and terrorist bombings."

Yes, indeed they do. And do these terrible things happen ? Yes ? No ? And who does these terrible things ? Are Muslims forced or brainwashed or tricked into doing these things by the US ? Or do some quite devout Muslims do these terrible things of their own free will ?

With respect, Lexi, you left out the Khalifa, the yearning for a Caliphate, the fusion of 'church' and state, the Will of Allah enacted on Earth, in every country if possible, and a return to seventh century society, with (one presumes) modern technology, camels plus air-conditioning.

And regrettably, dear, when the Caliphate is imposed, unless you and I agree to convert, we will have to be extracted, subtracted from the ideal society. [Sounds a bit Stalinist, don't you think ?]

In other words:

Beheaded.

Yes ? No ?

Islam as a religion of peace ? Yes, indeed, for believers. For others, well, .....

Peace be with you, Lexi, with equality and justice for all :)

Joe

tacit cak tire/quote..

..""Here are just a few..of the heavenly treasures that Allah sent..down to Mohammed…these include verses..that tell Muslims to not be friends..with those evil non-Muslims(3:28;""...

LET NOT..'the believers'..TAKE FOR FRIENDs or helpers..
[as in a mate or serrvant..
ie ..UNBELIEVERS OVER BELIEVERS*""

yes i agree thats racist
but heck we got mates/rates..
let ye without sin not cast stones

so lets go to 5:51),

"""OH YOU WHO BELIEVE>>DO NOT TAKE..*the jews/xtians..
..for friend/protector""

""you will learn in time
NO ONE protects""

it all sounded so mean
..but really its just insider trading
help friends..BEFORE ..not ..NOT FRIENDLY*

but back to the cak to us..

"""than the rest,
""farting on our values and traditions.

Posted by kactuz, Monday, 17 September""...

yeah

i feel the love MATE*

peace not pieces

IF WE GO TO ARMOGEDDON..at least base that on truth
you decieve me... mate..once ...twice

shame on you*

i know ye by your words
your works cant be much better

cheerrs big ears

Dear CHERFUL,

Gee whiz now you really have got yourself in a lather. Bile and invective have seen truth shown the door? Fear and ignorance were not good enough for you so you thought outright racism was the ticket?

Well lets do a little de-constructing shall we.

You said; “Women in these countries are just used as birthing incubators for men and don’t have much freedom to choose otherwise.”

The countries I mentioned were Saudi Arabia (fertility rate – 2.26), Qatar (fertility rate – 1.93) and United Arab Emirates (fertility rate – 2.38). Compare that to Israel with a fertility rate of 2.67, markedly higher than the other three.

Okay lets put that down to plain old ignorance.

This one is racist claptrap though; “but those from Moslem religions are known for the fact that they rape every woman from other areas in sight,every time they commit ethnic violence”

Who was it who set up the rape camps in Bosnia? It was the Christians you clown.

Actually that's probably a little harsh, you certainly are not as bad as some of the knock-kneed types posting here but that is hardly something to be proud of.

What if we dial it back a touch and you tell me whether or not you thought a protest of any kind was permissible over the film? If so what is the form it should have taken?

csteele again showing his deceit and distortion

'Who was it who set up the rape camps in Bosnia? It was the Christians you clown. '

No doubt endorsed by Jesus csteele.

What you conveniently ignore that many Muslims also label you 'Christian' simply because you are from the West even know you hate the freedom bible beleiving Christians have given you.

Good afternoon to you all...

I'm beginning to think Topics of this kind amount to a 'Health Hazard'.

I don't know about many of you good people, but these issues do tend to make me just a little angry and very sad.

One soul who kindly offered a solution herein, stated inter alia '...send 'em back from where that came from...'. A great idea except, some of the most violent among them, were actually born here. And others, you can't send them back, because their country of origin won't have them.

So what do we do ? There's a nice place by the seaside, at Malabar. With ample sea breezes, and quite close to the City and all amenties.

So why don't we simply lock them up. Lock them up for a long time.

Trouble is, to find a Magistrate or Judge with sufficient 'ticker' to do this, that's the real trick, unfortunately.

Perhaps we should meekly, just surrender the country to them. Apparently, one was quoted as saying '...soon we'll own you all...' or similar words.

Anyway, I'm sure one of our fine, erudite, and immensly strong politician's will come along and protect us all. I wonder ?

Sonofgloin,
There's actually a formula or a sort of program worked out regarding Muslim colonisation, that's what these guys with the beards and robes are after all, they're not here to "enrich" our lives or share what we have, they are a vanguard.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2054258/posts
Don't worry so much about the violent protests, be concerned about the non violent protests and activism, we all know who was acting out on Saturday, Lebanese "Gangsta" youths who wouldn't be able to tell a sura from a submarine.
It starts with ten, then it's a hundred and then you have thousands of Muslims on the street as they did in Ukraine last month:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzxrXsow4Dk

The problem is that our current crop of politicians are too weak and cowardly to stand up to accusations of "Racism", they'll give in to this "minority" of Muslims, they always give in to minority groups.

csteele,
This is not about a past history of inhumanity that you want to justify as your distorted posirion. It is about a current group of malcontents not knowing how to voice opposition by the intelligent use of words.They use violence against our police as a form of justification of their cause against the Coptic Christians, which they do against the innocent Copts in Egypt.

Remember the true left are involved too.
And ignore them, they betray us.
Let us look, what was the film/trailer? junk of little interest, much worse appears in Muslim sites aimed at us, their western hosts.
Why has it spread so fast, the pork chops wanted it to, even put in it their own dialects.
What has it got to do with America, Australia, Germany?
NOTHING.
They want confrontation, they thrive on being the victim, even if it is only in the empty space between their ears.
This country must stop the UN experiment, the spread the problem all over the world to fix it.
Their belief and ours their culture and ours are not ever going to work together.
They do not want it to they want to rule.
Tell me, both sides of politics in the western world are saying it this world wide event, staged savagery is unacceptable, why are some trying to bury it l8ike a dog on a beach?
Pay for one way tickets home to all who want it and take not one more in ever.

Well as some seem to be advocating we could get ultra-nationalistic about this. China over the last couple of days seems to be a good place to see how to do this properly. Lets take the law into our own hands.

http://imgur.com/a/Y7oIp

It is just a pity more Muslim countries don't make cars for us to smash and burn, and what is the Sushi shop equivalent? Perhaps the local kerbab kiosk? Damn frustrating isn't it. I know, the Mosques seem like the best place to start. Flaming torches tonight?

Pathetic.

Belly,
The "Left" will stand and fight on the side of the Muslims against their own people, Socialist Alternative have already called for their members to unite with Muslims against "Racism" and Police brutality, they copped some flak for their initial report but now thy've published this unhinged call to arms/rant.
http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=7493:why-we-stand-with-muslim-protesters&Itemid=393
In the U.K the Leftist group UAF mobilises gangs of ethnic youths to do battle with what they call "Fascists", white football firms, Nationalists like the BNP and NF and even harmless conservatives.
I doubt we'll see a "Muslim" terrorist attack in this country but I expect to see a resurgence Leftist terror of the sort we saw in the 1970's with the Red Army Faction, IRA, PLO, ANC, Revolutionare Zellen etc. These Lebanese, Somali and Afghan immigrant "Yoof" are not good prospects for the Jihadis, they're to dumb and unreliable but they'll make perfect little street fighters and rioters for Leftist groups and Black Bloc formations.

Definitely not the Australian way. Real Aussies riot over dodgy umpiring decisions.

Cheers,

Tony

Csteel, a valid point, demonizing a culture for their differing social standards is wrong, as is forcing your culture over anothers culture is wrong, and that is what the agenda is regarding the Muslims. What is ludicrously wrong though, is a targeted victim defending the Muslims right to attempt it, any advocacy of Muslim migration is a naïve ideological perspective.

About the Muslim by boat influx and the mindset of the Aussie advocates.

It is similar to the Stockholm Syndrome, but rather than forming an interpersonal relationship, advocates of Muslim migration have formed an ideological social stewardship with the young wolves wearing life jackets, unlike the women and children they sail and sometimes sink with, and that is an observed fact not a demeaning comment. The male is king in their culture, should be that way here...lol.

A mosque in every third suburb is a reality in Europe, Muslims have and will outbreed the Europeans and it is only two generations in....I don't want my children to be a minority to a doctrine written two thousand year ago where public beheadings and stoning carried out by the clergy is happening as we speak. I don't want a doctrine that has overseen the stagnation of the Middle East over the past 1500 years emerge as a world dominator because of the ridiculous number of children these tribal women pop out.
TBC

The only mitigating circumstance I can entertain regarding the humanitarian issues of Middle East is that the west has exploited and manipulated it since the first oil exploration contract was signed. We backed tyrants against the people choice of tyrant. The passage of commerce came before the welfare and betterment of the people, and that is the West’s fault.

To be precise it is the fault of global financiers and the west has recently become a victim of their greed as the Middle East has. But Muslims in numbers change the dynamic….their way or ongoing hostility, that is their credo and if you don't understand that you are hopelessly judgment impaired.

Western women who advocate Muslim migration should spend a year in any of the Middle East countries, at pleb level. I have two sisters, who are nursing sisters, and both spent over a decade working in Middle Eastern hospitals. They regularly gave me a firsthand perspective of what it is like to wear the full covering everywhere except in their units the hospital and other Western compounds.

They were regularly stopped in the street when they ventured to the supermarket. Often pulled over when in taxi’s by mosque guys on motor scooters who identify them as Christian or Caucasian and their MANY run ins with the Religious Police, again a bunch of yobbo's from the local mosque....I wouldn't want to be a woman there......and some want that here.

Dear Josephus,

What is my distorted position?

I'm seething the video was put out in the first place. I'm also seething that a group of malcontents in Sydney escalated a protest injuring police. I am disgusted that a young child should be holding up placards calling for beheadings.

But I will not allow this events to be used by others to heighten racial tensions in my country without a response from me. Ratcheting this up is only going to mean more social division. These are our citizens and our problem. How our country handles this and how it lives up to the kind of values I believe we stand for is hugely important to me. It should be for you too.

csteele writes

'These are our citizens and our problem'

Yes created by those blinded to the ideology that has stuffed many countries in Europe by demonizing anyone who spoke the truth. We know its our problem created by the apologist for a religion with a history of causing havoc everywhere it is allowed to.

csteel: These are our citizens and our problem. How our country handles this and how it lives up to the kind of values I believe we stand for is hugely important to me. It should be for you too.

Ahh, csteel, how I do love you. Now please enlighten the rest of us as to just what your solution would be for this situation. Please don't tell us it's not your job. As you have said, "These are our citizens and our problem." So you have made this your problem too.

Your ideas would be most enlightening, I'm sure. Then we all could discuss it over a glass of fine whine.

*to a greater extent in the riot - to a lesser extent on this thread.

Driven by fear mostly....*

Oh I am not so sure of that, Poirot. More like it was just a quiet
newsday and no other interesting threads on OLO :)

I don't think that you need fear wearing a burqa just yet, but
there is no doubt that if Australia imports lots of migrants from
Islamic countries, the outcome will be quite different then if they
came from say Buddhist countries. Given that I am an open critic
of the Catholic Church, I see no reason why Islam should somehow be
excempt from the discussion.

We give Runner a fair bit of stick over his religion, but if he
were to walk around Sydney with his kids carrying posters that we
should be beheaded for criticising Jesus, I am sure the debate would
be pretty lively too!

I cannot be expected to respect what people believe, but simply their
right to believe it

As I recall, the previous government took the word Multiculture out of the Immigration portfoilio, and was just going to let the ideology of MC die out. The current PM has raised the issue publicly a couple of times but there has been a lack of public interest. These riots will further deminish public support for MC ideology.

So I am looking forward to a change of government and see MC dead and buried. Then work on the introduction of selective immigration, which excludes those groups that have shown us they cannot/will not integrate.

I would also like to see immigration reduced to net zero, but with big busness donating to both major parties, that will not be forthcoming. I goes without saying that tough enough policies will be implemented to stop the illegals.

Usually nothing comes quickly in the political world and I have been an advocate against MC for 30 years, so a win there would be welcome.
The election is only about 13 months away. With luck we will survive till then.

It's pretty sad to see that the only dissent against those opposed to Islamic colonisation has been reduced to "Well Christians are worse!", it really goes to show that all this drama, all the anti racism, the Anti White, anti Australian, pro immigrant screeching has been for nothing.
I shows that when confronted with reality the reality of a mother in Hijab taking happy snaps of her toddler holding one of those behead the unbeliever signs the "bleeding hearts" just have nothing to back their case for "tolerance", all they can do is say "Christians caused the holocaust and srebrenica!"
http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/582420_10151014458245044_73712388_n.jpg

"Some" of you people seem incapable of understanding that the VAST majority of Muslims worldwide, and in Australia, are NOT Muslim fundamentalists.

Until very recent centuries, fundamentalist Christianity was just as evil and cruel and violent and controlling as fundamentalist Islam. It took fundamentalist Christianity several hundred years to transform itself and become more civilised. Traditional fundamentalist Muslim regions, by chance, were originally not part of the industrial revolution, and thus missed out on the benefits of a MUCH better and freer life over the past several hundred years. It took us hundreds of years to free ourselves from fundamentalist Christianity, and we can't expect fundamentalist Muslim regions to do in decades what took us hundreds of years.

Most Muslims in fundamentalist regions have fundamentalism FORCED on them. Most of them utterly despise and detest ancient Sharia law .... it's hard for a person to object or speak out when you're faced with the point of a gun, the end of the whip and daily, rigid control.

The VAST majority of worldwide Muslims in all free countries, are EXACTLY the same as anyone else in their countries, except they are Muslims, and they hold many diverse opinions on all subjects .... just like the Christians, atheists, Jews, Buddhists, agnostics etc in the same countries.

The ignorant amongst us love to demonise Muslims in general, based on the actions of a tiny, fundamentalist Muslim minority. Typical Aussie paranoia. Yep, we get this paranoia with EVERY generation .... anti Greeks, then anti Italian, anti Arab, then anti Oriental, then anti African, now anti anything remotely Muslim.

Luckily "most" Aussies are not like this, and have more brains, more maturity, more intelligence and more humanity.

Diamond,

It may be a "tiny, fundamentalist Muslim minority" that does this, but they do it with the board consent of the majority. Look at Islamic societies, if you have doubts. And it is not forced, it is part of their culture. From their mother's milk, the hatred is fed to them, they go from holding "behead signs" to sermons about evil infidels to riots in the streets and some go on to do just what Quran 9:111 tells them to do. Look it up!

Tell me, Diamond, have you ever sat down with a Muslim and asked them about the hate and anger in the Quran? Have you ever asked a Muslim to justify (or apologize for ...) the attacks and murders Mohammad did on innocent peaceful people? I have, and I cannot get a straight, simple answer. It seems that Muslims have no notion of morality as we understand it; and that if Mohammad did it (murder, torture, rape, plunder, killing, etc.) it can't really be condemned, only excused or ignored.

And these are Muslims in the West, the ones you say are "EXACTLY the same as anyone else". Sure they care, except that Christians, atheists, Jews, Buddhists, agnostics will condemn murder of innocents, rape, torture and enslavement of men women and children, no matter who does it. Try to get a Muslim to condemn these actions when done by their dear prophet, their great moral example if they want to get to paradise (that is directly from the Quran, in case you don't know). Oh, by the way, the Quran permits murder, rape of captives, plunder and slavery. As to torture, it even gives specific hints on how to do it.

Stop making excuses for ignorance and evil. Where do you think the people who make the stupid video got their material, duhh?

CSteele, so you were offended by this stupid video...

Fine, but please tell me if a you are offended by people that honor and love a man that did so many vile deeds? Are you offended by evil, or does it depend on who is doing the evil?

Mohammed did about 50 raids on his neighbors, going out to plunder, kill, capture and enslave men women and children (raping the females, of course). This is a man that fought about a dozen battles of which only 1 1/2 were defensive (the Battle of the Trench and the Battle near Medina). Do you think it is OK for a people to pretend that these things didn't happen or that they are not significant?

Are you offended by the hate and discrimination against non-Muslims in Islamic societies, or is that just "part of their culture" and move along?

So you are offended by anti-Muslims videos but not the actual accounts of violence that the filmmakers use, from Islam's own sources?

An old man taking a little girl from among her friends when playing with dolls to have intercourse is fine, but mentioning it in a video offends you.

I think I have said enough.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/bringing-dark-ages-to-the-streets-of-sydney/story-e6frf7jo-1226476162765
Morning Kactuz, glad to see I am not the only insomniac.
My link is well worth the read.
The video is was always will be a childish/feeble thing of no value.
Some one took the thing converted it to a weapon, from within the Muslim world?
And bought it to the attention of a world uninterested.
It is zero, nothing, nil, compared to the HATE generated on ten thousand anti west pages you will find if you only look.
csteele? read past blind support, past references to anti Lebanese posts.
Above all, with or without this film all this HATRED towards the west, is and has been building up,for centurys.
At least we get now to see it, and we have been warned.
We saw such warnings, and such crawling denial in the years before ww2.
It is not extreme, not racist, to demand and end to importing racial and religion enclaves to our country.
Remember, no way around it,we could never say such in the country's these poor unfortunate slaves of a God that is no God come from .

The post by Kactuz proves my point. There's people here who have NO concept whatsoever of the difference between violent, fundamentalist Islamic law as practiced in certain geographical locations and the remaining VAST MAJORITY of conventional Islam as practiced by Muslims in EVERY remaining country in the world. People like Kactuz "believe" fundamentalist Islam is supported by the "broad consent" of the world's Muslims. Why? ...... Too much right wing, shock jock radio? Not well read? Limited experience with "real" Muslims from all over the world? Anti religious bigotry? Readiness to believe anything that supports an already held opinion? Uneducated Aussies like this are a minority in our community.

The Christian scriptures are JUST as full of uneducated, ancient evil and violence as the horrid Quran ... a fact totally and willingly ignored by Kactuz. The riot on the weekend was utterly condemned by a huge plethora of Aussie Muslim organizations and representatives ... a fact totally and willingly ignored by Kactuz. Kactuz likes to "imply" that most Muslims support fundamentalism, because that supports his inaccurate and bigoted anti Muslim stance. Fundamentalism is condemned week after week, month after month, year after year by Aussie Muslims in Mosques, homes, schools, press releases etc etc .... it doesn't make headlines, and doesn't even get printed in the right wings press, and CERTAINLY never gets an airing by the right wing shock jocks and TV shows that people like Kactuz listen to and unquestioningly believe

Most Aussies understand that Australia over the past century, and especially post WW2, has been built on racial, religious, sexual, educational, political and economic DIVERSITY. We are not a mono culture at all. The bigots want a return to the Aussie mono culture of the 1800s (when we told the blacks what to do and believe, and if they objected violently enough, we killed them).

Radically anti Islamic Aussies are just as bad, dangerous, intolerant and divisive as fundamentalist Muslims.

The 2 most violent religions throughout history, by FAR, have been fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam. They have BOTH been scourges on decency, tolerance and humanity.

*The Christian scriptures are JUST as full of uneducated, ancient evil and violence as the horrid Quran*

Careful there, Diamond Pete. By calling the Quaran horrid, you too
could be seen as insulting the prophet, so according to those
posters being carried by the children, your head should be on the
chopping block too.

I think it's really going to be up to the Muslim community to bring
their religion into line, so that adherants can live in freedom
loving societies such as ours.The global violence which has broken
out over a video, tells me that is has a long way to go, to get to
that point.

One solution is to ban the Muslim faith in Australia. If they wish to be practicing Muslims, we won't stop them, they just have to find somewhere else to do it.

Now if they don't like it, tough, this is Australia after all and it is very clear that this is one race that do not want to be Australians.

After all, we locked one of our own (non Muslim) up for allegedly training with Bin Larden.

We can ban a fishing trawler that threatens no lives, we can ban the live export of cattle, so why can't we ban this?

Let's face it, multiculturalism has failed most everywhere else, so why flog a dead horse.

Diamond Pete,
All you defenders of Islam can do is say "Christians are worse!", so you don't really have a reasonable argument to put forward in this discussion, do you?
We don't care what happened 800, 500 or 200 years ago, we live in 2012, we're talking about what's happening now.
Pete can you explain to me how having Muslims among us is going to make our children safer, healthier and richer?

its interesting to note the true believers beingh true to their 'belief'

happy holy day..[or so i gather from qanda

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayg.htm

SUkkot: This festival of booths commemorates the Biblical period of wandering in the desert, and is commemorated by building a temporary shelter (called a sukkah, usually rhymes with "book a") in the yard and eating meals in it.

Some spend considerable time in the sukkah, even sleeping there. Sukkot begins on the fifth day after Yom Kippur, in late September or October, and lasts for 7 days.

From the perspective of the Bible and Jewish law, this holiday is every bit as important as Passover, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, but most American Jews don't see it that way.

About 10% of Jews do not work
on the first two days of this holiday (one day for some branches),

end quote

anyhow we know all working..or not would love the spirit of this diss course*..who owns the media again?

THERE IS NUTHIN LIKE RIOTS IN THE STREETS
to gain censure over the www..conveniant aint it,,just as govt wants more powers

cant yoiu lot think..this IS organised..for maximum strength laws..cause now ewe frightend..did not the christ say

FEAR NO EVIL
where you are there too am i

Whoa! Enough is enough! This has gone on for far too long!

It is quite obvious that the majority of posters to this thread

do not want anymore Muslim/Asylum Seeker/Boat people,

but instead of saying so outright, everybody seems intent upon

venting their spleen in alternate posters direction!

What we ALL, who are against the continuation of this "invasion",

should demand of our politicians, is that the whole issue be put to

the voters at the coming Federal Election in the way of a Referendum,

....a simple YES or NO vote!

We have to demand that we the people do NOT have to aquiesce to the

insanity of the UN Conventions, which are telling us that we HAVE to

accept ALL the impoverished people across the globe!

We do NOT want the installation of a MUSLIM "Inquisition" that

orders the beheading of "blasphemers" for perceived insults against a

mythical foreign God!

We the people have the right to decide our future, the future of

our country and the future of our chidren, not a bunch of

self-interested broken-down politicians who languish on the seats of

the UN Assembly !

"hysteria"...to a lesser extent on this thread.

Her her crackup, I started a thread recently alomg the same grounds, our rights as tax payers, the providers of all funds our governments spend/waste. Do we need more say.

I have often thought it would be good to pay all taxes to a high profile law firms 'trust account', in trust, for the governments.

Then, when they fix things up, we release the funds.

No splash, no cash.

The harsh reality is, if we comtinue our softly softly approach and dont take serious action, we will simply run out of funds.

Our states are already rethinking the GST because our funds just don't spread far enough anymore, thanks in large to the non local crap we are throwing money at most with no end in sight.

yep..the demonic autocrazey continues
just as pirates of old..voted 51%=captain..

democracy..the majority lord if over the statistical minority..
even if we have to cut slice and dice great countries into little fiefdumbs..the right majority will pick winner and looser

it dont work..its all on to big a scale
get back to local govts..that serve their duties..,locally

no international stage..
no un..or eu of public servants..ego forum..but true respresentitive memberships proportuinate to the intrests we send them there to protect..

anyhow..the timming of al this is conveniant
watch for the closing time press releases..

if i know guilelard..5 pm friday
and the system belongs to terroists capitalising in ..on social/capitalism..where you take the bonus..we bear the risk

that needs eyes in every letter
an ear in EVERY conversation.,.where a device is..there is big bother

why cause we rioted in the streets
so unionists bikies muslims..cant complain out loud..ever more*

Crackup,
I doubt if there is a stronger opponant to the illegals here on OLO than myself. I oppose them, not because they are mainly muslim, but because they are con artists, liars and cheats that gate crash our country. We may have to wait for a change of government until tough enough measures are put in place to deter them from coming.

Now I have not looked at the figures for some time but you may find far more muslims enter by the normal immigration channels. The DIAC website has the figures if you look, but only on countries. You may have to then decide if they are likely to be muslim.

I am pleased to see that I am not the only one now recomending that we not allow further muslim immigration. I see the call coming now from various quarters. It will be a long drawn out fight to get the government to stop allowing entry of those groups that will not integrate and some of these groups could include non muslims.

Problem is that both major parties are committed to high immigration and allowing all cultures to enter.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/video-of-8-year-old-jihad-girl-urging-islamic-uprising/story-fndo317g-1226476305453
Link is self explaining, Diamond Pete not buying your contributions.
For just a minute let me play Devils advocate.
It is true, can not be other, not all Muslims think like that.
And true too many have gone out of their way to say so.
We are seeing some of us, me included being a bit offensive.
Now for the real me.
Any one else seen the sorry BUT? IN EVERY SORRY?
Can we get it past our Sydney event, and see it took place in many country,s? MURDER TOO?
We will confront a truth one day, a primitive hate carried from hundreds of years ago, fueled by orders from a God that never existed, demands we too find that God or die.
Read it in their holly book see it increasingly in our streets world wide.
Given a chance most Australians would pay them to leave.

rehcub: I have often thought it would be good to pay all taxes to a high profile law firms 'trust account', in trust, for the governments.

You want to WHAT! Within 12 months they would have gone bankrupt & disappeared overseas with all the money never to be seen or heard of again.

rechub: One solution is to ban the Muslim faith in Australia.

It's the only solution, & I said that 40 years ago.

Underonegod. To tell you the truth mate, I haven't understood a thing you have posted. Have you taken your pills today?

Banjo: I doubt if there is a stronger opponent to the illegal’s here on OLO than myself.

Yeah! Get outta me way mate.

DiamondPete: "Some" of you people seem incapable of understanding that the VAST majority of Muslims worldwide, and in Australia, are NOT Muslim fundamentalists.

There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Scratch a Muslim, "The video, the cartoon", & you'll find a fundamentalist.

Please watch the youtube videos I posted earlier, then you will understand. Of course csteel, Arjay, Lexi & others of their ilk won't view them. They might learn the truth of exactly what this situation is.

Just in case you can’t find them, here they are again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVLKW7ixjU&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yNrxYewhi0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvhDoFDGq6M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHt94EGrac&feature=related

Runner: 'Who was it who set up the rape camps in Bosnia? It was the Christians you clown.

Ah Yes, but Greek Orthodox Christians! Also you have to understand the exact nature of the conflict in the Balkans. You have Royalist Christians/ OPD’s/ Greek/Albanian Orthodox & Royalists Sunni/ Shiite Muslims, Communist Catholic & OPD’s, Communist Greek/ Albanian Orthodox , LMP/Labor/Greens equivalent of all of the previous. & they have all really, really hated one another for centuries in an area about 200 by 75 kilometres. Most of this area is still living in the 16 century without electricity. This area doesn’t count in the debate.

Someone mentioned having a referendum at the next election. Spot on.

The Question. Should Australia ban Muslim immigrants? Yes or No.

I believe the result would be a resounding, "Yes", & that's exactly why they won't do it.

I notice Canada is revoking Citizenship of people who were refugees , gained citizenship but have returned to fight against the West & people who have committed major crimes. It’s a solution we should be adopting in Australia.

Not ho harp on it again. I make no apologies. When anyone comes to Australia they sign a form with their Visa & tick a box in the Customs declaration that they will not claim Asylum. If they do then they can be shipped straight back without delay & no recourse to lawyers.

Jayb

'Runner: 'Who was it who set up the rape camps in Bosnia? It was the Christians you clown. '

Ok joker which tennet of faith are the followers of Christ using here?

Some are a bit slow to get it. I would of thought you would know better Jayb.

Dear Diamondpete,

I agree. In fact there is little to distinguish between the levels of intolerance shown by the thuggish elements in the crowd over the weekend and the likes of characters as Jayb.

Hatred and intolerance need to be exposed and challenged at every opportunity. We need to be vigilant in recognising the toxic mix of fundamental religion combining with American gang culture, but also about recognising fear and hate mongers attempting to wrap themselves up in our flag.

Dear kactuz,

Do we really need to roll out the early marriage caper again?

Here is a picture of Isabella marrying Richard II when she was six, more than half a millennia after Aisha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Isabela_richard2.jpg

While they may be repugnant to us today these marriages were done as a matter of course to combine families and extend influence. Why are you so fixated on it?

Dear runner,

You might get Jayb to explain others on the list of Christian organisations like the KKK on more topically Joseph Kony.

Kony is a premillennialist steeped in Christian end times theology.

“Kony believes in the literal protection provided by a cross symbol and tells his child soldiers a cross on their chest drawn in oil will protect them from bullets.”

“Kony insists that he and the Lord's Resistance Army are fighting for the Ten Commandments. He defends his actions: "Is it bad? It is not against human rights. And that commandment was not given by Joseph. It was not given by LRA. No, those commandments were given by God."”

“According to Francis Ongom, a former LRA officer who defected, Kony "has found Bible justifications for killing witches, for killing [those who farm or eat] pigs because of the story of the Gadarene swine, and for killing [other] people because God did the same with Noah's flood andSodom and Gomorrah."”

Are you a premillennialist runner?

http://islamcommentaries.com/prayers.htm
I wish to asure every one who looks at this link not all Muslims think like this.
Just their Holly men preaching from the holly places.
Takes courage to read, but informative.
And it is today not hundreds of years ago csteele

Runner,

Yes, the Serbs(whiteish Europeans), did kill as many darker- featured,Bosnian(muslim Europeans), men and boys as they could, because these are the future potential territorial warriors, who could ultimately wrest control of those areas from Serbian control. I am not saying it is not horrific,(don't shoot the messenger), I am just saying that this is what territorial males do,(across every species), kill or drive off potential male threats to territorial control. They most often rape all the women they can because this intergrates the bloodline and so avoids territorial future civil wars. Not that the men are consciously aware of this as they commit the atrocity, they are just following their biological territorial instinctive programming to impregnate as many females as they can. Sorry, blame biological programming not me.

The whitish Europeans(Serbs) had the same done to them in earlier centuries in Europe, they were nearly wiped out by the Islamic forces that overran Europe at different times.(the Ottoman Empire for one). No doubt suffering similar violence and rape.
Gradually the white Europeans, (like Putin, the Germans the Serbs etc)
as the centuries past, re-established themselves and control of major territories once again in Europe.

These wars like the Bosnian war haven't just happened recently, they have been being fought across Europe between tribes for centuries.

Have a look at the Chechnya war in Russia, between the white Russians(predomiantly Christian)and the darker-featured muslim Chechnyans, who want a Separate state free from Russian rule. And Putins people, who do not want to surrender what they see as Russian territory to the Islamists. Journalists in Russia who report truthfully on Putins crackdown on the Chechnyan situation are killed.

We need to study these wars from away back in time to get a full picture of the neverending tribal wars across Europe.
See the whole history of them.

CS, Roll out anything you want. If it is evil, I will condemn it. Period. Richard marrying Isabella at that age is wrong. Got that? Bad. Bad. Bad. I can, will and have condemned colonialists, slavers, exploiters, crusaders, soldiers, Americans, British, Aussies, Muslims, David, Peter, Paul and Mary, Bush, and BugsBunny for vile actions. For me, good and evil are absolute, with little gray area.

That “others did it, too” doesn’t work with me. I have no problem condemning evil. Good people do not have separate values for A and B, good for me, bad for ye.

Now let’s talk about Muslims and their values.

Case 1. Quote: Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: A blind man had a slave-mother who abused the Prophet…. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about it… Thereupon the Prophet said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood. (Abu-Dawud, Book 38: 4348)

Case 2. Quote: We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives… So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (coitus-interruptus). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrect will be born (Sahih Muslim, Book 8: 3371)

Got that? Murder and rape. Now do you think that Muslims will condemn Mohammed for his evil deeds? Good luck, I have asked about this dozens of times, but evidently it is a very complex moral questions and Muslims can’t figure out if these are really evil.

By the way, will you and Diamond condemn this evil man for these actions

csteel: Hatred and intolerance need to be exposed and challenged at every opportunity. We need to be vigilant in recognising the toxic mix of fundamental religion combining with American gang culture, but also about recognising fear and hate mongers attempting to wrap themselves up in our flag.

You mean, "Us", the people that are challenging the racial hatred of the Islamists.

I don't hate anybody. I don't have a religion, not even athiest. I do regognise the Christian Teliban as being just as evil as the Islamic Teliban. Yes Kony & all his associated type are evil & I do condem them as well. Fear, yes I am afraid & you should be also.

My bet. You havent watched any of the youtube videos I posted & you win't will you. Same excuse as you gave before & No guts. These are the people you support against,"us".

FYI;
The reward for killing Salmon Rushti has just been increased to $3 Million.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Yet another challenge.
The link has the exact words and prayers of this religion.
Worth a look

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/multiculturalism-still-has-a-long-road-to-travel-to-reach-all-20120917-262gf.html
Surely only the blind will not agree with this.
The failure of 1970,s on, Lebanese Muslim Migration is it plain sight.
We will suffer much more from second and third generation Australians badly educated and badly bought up at home.
By parents we never should have taken in.

CHERFUL

I am not disputing your claims that tribal groups including Serbs, Aboriginals, football teams rape for various reasons including those you mention. The use of the word Christian is one conveniently used by those with Christophobic natures who kno very well that these people act in contradiction to the teachings of Christ in contrast to those who act violently in line with the teachings of their prophet. It is a very convenient ways to depict all beliefs being of the same value. Secularist are the worst at this kind of deceit as shown by Csteele in his rants.

By the way Csteele

Are you a premillennialist runner?

I have no doubt Christ will return as the mockers increase and Israel's haters band together. At the exact point I don't know. I suspect strongly Christ will take His people out before the nukes explode. For me the most important point is to be ready spiritually. Endless debate on whether Christ comes pre, mid or post tribulation lead nowhere.

runner,

...been noting all day you trotting about OLO accusing fellow posters of "Christophobia", deceit, etc...in a very unChrist-like way.

Nothing changes.

As an example of Christ's humility and wisdom, you fail miserably. Just once I'd like to see you impart some good will amid your righteous indignation and cease impugning others with vile epithets....as in "...Secularists are the worst at this kind of deceit as shown by Csteele in his rants."

Hi C. Steele,

And there I was, violently worshipping Richard II all my life, and now you've gone and spoiled it for me :(

We can play this silly game of "tu quoque" till the cows come home. There's always someone worse. NEITHER Muhammed OR Richard II or Kony are admirable for their behaviour. To point the finger at Person A doesn't somehow cleanse Person B.

As a Marxist-atheist, religion has little attraction for me, except for the mild defence that some of them may provide some sort of moral framework. And God does tend often to have the best tunes, or at least some pretty good ones.

But the fact remains that Islam is a violent, intolerant religion, with little going for it that isn't done better by other moral frameworks, Buddhism, Judaism, even to a point Christianity.

I don't agree with Andrew Bolt to call for the beheading of all those who call for the beheading of all those who insult the prophet, but i can see his point: how does one tolerate the intolerant in a just society ?

Cheers,

Joe

Poirot
'As an example of Christ's humility and wisdom, you fail miserably. '

As the judge of all that is decent thanks for that all wise and knowing Poirot. Thankfully its not you I am trying to impress.

runner,

Christ set a pretty good example in his interactions with his fellow man.

Surely it's not a matter of "impressing", but merely emulating.

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

How does one tolerate the intolerant
in our society?

One simply takes no notice of them.
They usually don't represent the mainstream.
Unless they break the law of course.
Then they're tried according to the law.

Or, if they happen to be
wanting the top job in politics - then one
simply doesn't vote for them.

It's perfectly reasonable to suggest that Australian born Muslims who want to practice their religion in an assertive and aggressive way should go to live overseas and do so, going back to the "mother country' or to one which meets your personal tastes and standards is an Australian tradition. If it's viewed as healthy for white Australians to go abroad to "find themselves" and broaden their minds then it's going to do those guys with the Beards and robes and Aussie accents no end of good, right?.

Runner you give evidence that it is not only SOME Muslims who are to be watched.
You in no way, remind me of the loving Christ I once followed.
You however fit well with those who forced me to rethink my belief.

So the question must be asked, why?

Why on earth did our past leaders allow these radical groups in?

For me, it just adds fuel to the suggestion that our strings are being pulled from somewhere other than our own leaders.

We must stand up for the sake of our children, their children and thier children's children.

Enough is enough. I suggest two options.

1. Ban Islamic worship in Australia, total!
2. If anyone wants to follow this religion, find somewhere else to do it.

We must claim Australia back before there's nothing worthwhile saving, otherwise it may well be us on that leaky boat, and good luck finding somewhere with the soft, compassionate approach that we have, not to mention the perks.

Dear Loudmouth,

I only raised the matter of early marriage after the matter it was posted for a second time on this thread to justify the making of the film.

My point is that it is difficult to nearly impossible to judge religious leaders from our modern perspective.

I totally reject the unspeakable horror of slavery and am deeply grateful that a small group of Quakers strove to rid the world of this scourge. Am I about to condemn Christ for his admonishing the slave to obey his master? Hardly, even though I find it a reprehensible sentiment. It was a reality of the time therefore it goes through to the keeper in my opinion. Others may well disagree. We can really only judge them by what we know of the times, how those around them acted and what was the moral standard of the society in which they dwelt.

When you say “But the fact remains that Islam is a violent, intolerant religion, with little going for it that isn't done better by other moral frameworks, Buddhism, Judaism, even to a point Christianity.”

Yet it isn't a fact and if we look at the mote in our own eyes the history of Christianity, especially in the 20th Century, has no comparison. As much as the likes of runner try to disavow how Christian Europe treated the Jewish people during WW2, how Christian Serbs slaughtered and raped tens of thousands of Bosnia Muslims, how the Rwandan Christian clergy preached hate and genocide from the pulpit while Muslims open their homes to terrified and fleeing Tutsis, the facts speak for themselves.

Perhaps it might be an idea to let them do so here.

csteel: Isabella marrying Richard II when she was six, more than half a millennia after Aisha.

I'm doing my Genealogy. You would be surprised at the amount(In Europe)of people that were married very young, both males & females. The Stewarts were very good at wife exchanging. The number of brothers & sisters & half brothers & sisters that were married. So that sort of thing wasn’t unusual. Mostly for Alliances & passing family heritage along. In the Middle East though it was because of Venereal Diseases that the men married very young girls.(virgins & clean)

So steelie what did you think of the youtube videos, or haven't you watched them yet. Do you support what they are saying?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/its-our-shortcoming-we-have-not-really-engaged-with-these-individuals-20120918-264uf.html
Another link.
But first let us look again at the drivers for this thread.
*Our dead are in Paradise yours are in hell!*
If we said that?
Is it not pure hate and based on religion and bigotry.
We are offended by Sydney but must not ignore it has been world wide, and death and destruction along with pure hatred.
Kactuz has put the truth before us, this is an every day part of life for many, the bigotry the hate, and a privative need to place a God that is no God on a pedestal, above us all, us more than any.
The Middle ages haunts us still folk far different than us, on ourside at least ,the other? maybe still the same.
Did wrong,gee consider csteele has to hark back to then! to decry our concerns.
We in increasing numbers only look at any yesterday to confirm our fears.
REMEMBER lies are an ak47 in this community, called for in a HOLLY BOOK.
Hence the we are sorry but,but but nothing, this will increase not decrease, yes some Muslims will stand with us.
Some will in time, risk death, think about that, by leaving this twisted faith.
But a poor if at all educated enclave who hates us and every one,who regard women as property will haunt us and we must one day confront it and the lies.

It is worth remembering that the latest "riot" is far from an isolated incident:

“A riot by Muslim youths in Auburn last week was organised via Facebook, police believe. The troublemakers used the social networking site to flash up inflammatory references to police and rally their friends for a confrontation.One update identified police as ‘non-believers’ who were raiding a ‘brother's home’. More than 150 people gathered in Cumberland Rd, Auburn, on Tuesday night, forcing police to call in 100 officers, the riot squad and a helicopter.”
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/facebook-website-used-to-drum-up-auburn-rioters/story-e6freuy9-1225772429876

“Radical Islam has shown its distasteful side. The Carnita Matthews case escalated from a simple traffic fine to a public show of needless aggression.Herald Sun Digital Pass. The preposterous excuses and Pythonesque theatrics of Carnita Matthews and her very vocal supporters outside a Sydney court this week would be comic, if they weren't so threatening.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/we-need-to-stop-islams-ugly-voice/story-e6frfhqf-1226080251177

“Roy Yaghi, 33 and Jamie Grover, 27 were gunned down execution style as they sat in a ute parked outside what police have described as a known "drug house" at South Wentworthville on Thursday night…They were taken to Westmead Hospital in a critical condition and died soon after… riot police were called to the hospital on Friday to calm distraught family members demanding access to the victim's bodies, Mr Scipione pleaded with those in the know to break the criminal code and contact police.He described the "wall of silence" surrounding western Sydney's criminal network “
http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/story/2012/09/01/we-will-look-after-you-scipione

A Sydney man who was held down on his bed and whipped up to 40 times by strangers had recently converted to Islam and was reportedly being punished for drinking.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/intruders-whip-silverwater-man-31-for-drinking/story-e6frf7jo-1226097080261

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/hes-my-brother--why-angry-muslim-youth-are-protesting-in-sydney-20120918-264l1.html
This link, after reading it twice, tells me PC is in control of some thoughts.
It for me, without fear or favor, says our next export market, properly funded and thought out, should start with this well meaning Gentle man and those he defends.
A prime example of it was wrong now lets drop it and talk of the past.
Forget 9/11 talk of the murders you do not us.
Harsh, red neck, yes I am guilty but lets be fair dinkum these folk are unwelcome by most.

its about giving the impression..we need tougher laws
nuthin like a good riot,..to stop..ANYONE 'rioting'../yes unionists and greenies too!

just like bullies love power
lawyewrs love laws..yes sure the law say you canyt front run..but!
here is a trust..loophole..so you canm become one of them 47%..mitt rummny is talking of..

no one should be allowed to record private stuff
and put it on line..like who wants to see her majesties boobie
WE NEED TOUGH LAWS..so our delicates stay in the clossit

or about being able to mention facebook in court as a source
or trakiing flaash traiter traders..or following the money as well as the authority that released it

or about forcing us to beg more..be watched more
so ther big still get their bonus and bailout
and we swill still get.. the shaft

for stealing a loaf..in ol blarney..you get sent to the land of oz

for stealing govt own money system
you get bailout/bonjus..new trusts to hide things in

so you too can become the 47%..not paying any tax
thanks be to the family trust..let him who bear benifit..bear the burden

It is always interesting to see what types crawl out from under their rocks on threads such as these.

Dear Jay of Melbourne,

You wrote;

“Some more footage shot by a mate of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAp4eBV720
He's saying that Socialist Alternative were involved and were directing people to the protest and egging them on, the Commies actually recognised him as a Nationalist and attacked him, but he lost them in the crowd and ran behind the Police line.”

Your mate goes under the nickname of 'SussToTheJew' on the White Pride website www.stormfront.org where the main topic of conversation seems to centre around who they need to get rid of first; jews; muslims or nergos.

He posts his video here;
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t913464-4/

What name to you use on this site? Galactica71?

Be that as it may you appear to be embellishing when you said “ the Commies actually recognised him as a Nationalist and attacked him”.

His account seems to differ somewhat, “When I was trying to access my camera on this Android phone, there was a SA antifa standing next to me who spotted the swastika screensaver on my phone and started calling on his phone. Then him and another followed me through the thick Muslim crowd trying to film me. That was just before the first police lines were attacked.”

He further states; “These Muslims are using any jew excuse to take over. I'm starting to think a certain man was right in his actions.”

Who do you think your mate was referring to and do you agree with him?

You and your ilk thoroughly disgust most thinking people, the poison you are so determined to spread through our communities needs to be resisted at every turn. This is Australia mate and just as we are not an Islamic state neither are we the Third Reich. A lot of Australians gave up their lives ridding the world of the Nazi scourge yet you lot have the swastika as your screensavers?

As to other posters here do you ever stop to think of the bedfellows you are keeping?

csteele,

Honest to God, you are my hero!

'Runner you give evidence that it is not only SOME Muslims who are to be watched.
You in no way, remind me of the loving Christ I once followed.
You however fit well with those who forced me to rethink my belief.'

and yet you are only to happy to back the trade union movement full of thieves and thugs. No logic Belly. At least you admit that Christ is loving.

Dear runner,

Then you really should practice what He teaches.

Dear csteele,

The following two websites may be of interest:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-incredible-muslim-hulk-proves-to-be-no-friend-of-islam-either-20120916-260e8.html

And:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3592170.htm

I have searched everywhere for this video. Can anyone give me a link please. The one on Utube is only a trailer of a trailer, about 2 minutes.

Csteel, have you watched the Utube videos I posted? Has anyone watched the videos I posted? Does anyone have a comment on them? Or, Is this a case of, "Don't wanna go there"?

scribbler,

"csteele,

Honest to God, you are my hero!"

Yep.

You'd be battling to find a more balanced and reasonable poster on OLO than csteele.

Cheers

*Honest to God, you are my hero!"

Yep.*

That is what those female groupies normally say, when they throw
themselves at another stoned rock singer :)

Suck it up, Yabby : )

You think scribbler and I are teenage groupies?

(How about if I add that I think you're reasonably balanced as well - IMO : )

JAYB
Go to You tube and enter Sam Bacile or the innocence of Muslims. The video is as stupid as the protestors and as we are for letting Muslims settle here. The behaviour of Muslim Lebanese in Sydney with their insurance fraud, car re-birthing, drugs and drive by shootings is an indicator of the future. As Muslim numbers increase so will their demands to behead and punish those who lampoon or ridicule their so called prophet.

Hands up the Six people in Australia who have actually seen this video.

Excluding the fellow who made it,(who was an Egyptian immigrant,}and the moslem extremists who passed it around the world to incite their fellow moslems. There is actually no involvement by the people of Australia or any Western person at all.

So the moslems are basically demonstrating against something stirred up
by themselves. duh?

@ CSteele fanclub,

<<CSteele, Honest to God, you are my hero!>>

A friend recently told me some good advice –here’s the background.


Peter and Fred have a mutual friend John. Now John had a cat which he absolutely adored, took it most everywhere with him. But, one day John had to make a quick trip overseas and needed to leave his cat in Peters care. Unfortunately, when Peter was busy the cat wandered-out onto the street and was skittled. When John called home and asked how things were, the first thing Peter said was:“Aw, your cat got run over”. Needless to say John was shattered.Later Fred counseled him saying: “When you have bad news about someone’s love object you cannot just blurt it out. You really need to slowly build up to. In the case of the cats death you should have lead into it with a line like ‘One day your cat was out walking on the roof…’”

So with that in mind: “One day CSteele was out walking on the roof…”

It was back in June 2011, and a certain woman ,who had a string of traffic offences was stopped by a traffic officer. She accused the officer of threatening & abusing her –and laid formal charges. The officer might well have been in deep swiss it had not been for the lucky event that he had video taped the entire incident. And the vid showed the only one screaming abuse had been the woman.Under normal circumstance the woman might –having made false charges – herself faced some sort of sanction.But she was able to hide behind her veil, literally. No one could positively identify her.

CSteele was in the forefront of voices on OLO echoing the woman charges --–and she made no step-down when the truth came out.

When drones zap Al Quaeda honchos, CSteele is foremost in her criticism

And when there is any criticism to be leveled at Israel, CSteele is amongst the most strident

So it would seem it aint only Jay of Melbourne, who harbours a dark side!

Oh, SPQR, that's okay. I used to enjoy pottery way back when, so I don't have a problem with feet of clay.

By the way, that joke of yours about the cat is very old. Last time I heard a much better rendition was 25 years ago in the film 'Capricorn One'.

All the best.

In saying that the Christians were guilty of the Holocaust. It should also be noted that the Arabs collaborated and plotted with the German leadership, lending them help and support in their persecution of the Jews. There is evidence of this collaboration and also pictures taken of these Arab leaders with Hitler at the height of the war.

That is why the British were in military control of Palestine when the war ended, they regarded the Arabs as having sided with their enemy Hitler.

When the Jews were given a homeland in Israel by the British, the Palestinians and Arabs didn’t like It. Much the same as a lot of Australians don’t like all these Moslems being allowed into Australia.

When the British pulled out of Palestine, at least 3 Arab nations raced over and attacked the new Jewish nation. It was called the Six Day War. The Jews having just been through one annihilation, were armed and ready. They won the war in six days. It was then they took some of the disputed territories. Probably as a buffer zone between Israel and Palestine and the Arab states.

There is no answer to the Israel, Palestinian question. They both need the land and resources for their evergrowing populations. It is literally a fight for survival on both sides.

Dear CHERFUL,

I recommend that if you haven't read the
book, "My Israel Question," by Antony Loewenstein
then you should. It is a searching discussion from a
significant Jewish voice in one of the most important
debates of our times. Interesting read.

LOL Lexi

The one thing Lowenstein isn't is a "significant Jewish voice."

Meanwhile the French satirical magazine, Charlie Hebdo, has published a new Muhammad cartoon. It apparently features a turbanned naked Muhammad "exposing his posterior to a film director."

See:

http://www.news.com.au/world/french-magazine-charlie-hebdo-publishes-nude-cartoons-of-prophet-mohammed/story-fndir2ev-1226477532876

and

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-57515536-503543/french-leaders-fret-over-new-mohammad-cartoons/

Charlie Hebdo was firebombed last year so let's congratulate the brave editor. It is thanks to people like him that freedom of speech survives.

Would that Australian editors were that bold

LOL
I read that one of the rioters charged was recognized by some kids.

Turns out he is, or was, their school bus driver.

He must not be a parent, as he would know not to say or do anything in front of the kids that you don't want repeated.

Tickled my sence of humour.

Dear Scribbler,

Thank you but rather than any real research it was a fortuitous and largely accidental cross-link that landed the White Power association, though the internet really is a two edged sword. As Cenk from The Young Turks points out our 'village idiots' who once only had a village wide impact now have a world wide audience.

Dear Poirot,

Thank you for the sentiment. While I might have hoped to have been included among the more measured posters on OLO in years gone by I am now finding myself constantly battling the impulse to wring necks and that is not a good sign. I acknowledge I have probably been on OLO too long and those with whom in the past I took the time to engage in reasoned debate have been replaced by a new flock and my ability to observe the niceties has unfortunately waned.

I have been re-reading the thread SPQR mentioned. While I stand by everything I posted, indeed even with a little pride, it is hard to go past my words to Belly;

“You keep banging on about the ALP and the Green/left, time to drop it mate and realize you belong to the GOB party (Grumpy old bastards). Don't fret because I will be joining you in the not too distant future, I am already showing signs of it now.”
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4525&page=0

Dear SPQR,

I have actually had that particular thread thrown at me on a number of occasions. The stance I took seemed to upset quite a few people, just not sure why. If you wanted to be a little more specific in your case that “she made no step-down when the truth came out.” I am happy to answer the charge.

Dear Lexi,

Thanks for the links, all good stuff. I was watching the one of Rami posted by JoM earlier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv6-tsV5Xj0 and I couldn't help be struck by his call for his compatriots to go to TAFE. Given the decimation of this institution by state governments on the Eastern seaboard I do wonder what the long term ramifications will be.

Dear stevenlmeyer,

Actually one thing Antony Lowenstein is, particularly in the Australian context, and that is a significant Jewish voice. I would venture for many Australians who take any interest in the issue he would stand as one of if not the most prominent and recognisable Jewish figures in our country. Would you care to name another?

You might want to get chauvinistic about it and say within the Australian Jewish community he doesn't rate as highly and that is fine but I'm choosing in include the whole country if that is okay.

As to the matter of cartoonists the pressure not to publish can be brought to bear in many different ways.

Michael Leunig relates; “As far as I remember, I have not done a cartoon about Israel for about a year, unless you count the ones about Iraq. Cartoonists are very reluctant to go near this prickly subject because there can be a large personal cost. One New Zealand cartoonist recently lost his job over such a cartoon, which I think is a terrible shame.”
http://www.leunig.com.au/journal/journal_one.php

Mike Evans was that cartoonist. He was awarded NZ top cartoonist twice and his cartoons were very telling, especially those that got him sacked. This one I found the most powerful.
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/maps/malcolmEvans10.gif

The rest can be found here.
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/map.php?mid=101

As an ordinary Australian I'm hard pressed to find a sack-able offence among them. Can you?

Many may well remember the cartoon of Leunig's that was rejected for publication by the Age newspaper.
http://tinyurl.com/8oq647q

May I echo your sentiment “Would that Australian editors were that bold”

Cont...

Cont...

I suspect that circumstance is the primary difference between methodologies of Jewish and Muslim extremists when addressing things they find offensive. The 'Jewish Lobby' to which Lowenstein refers has a powerful influence both within our media and our halls of power. The need to protest in our streets has been made largely redundant by the exercise of that power.

It is a similar paradigm to what occurred in Israel/Palestine where the Jewish leadership was able to forego terrorist acts when they gained enough military might to prosecute its objectives through more 'normal' and accepted (but no less devestating) means. Indeed the same paradigm continues with its conflict with Hamas. Home made rockets compete with Howitser shell and missiles fired from Apache helicopters. Does anyone really think Hamas wouldn't give up firing their rockets in a flash if given access to similar weaponry to target the Israeli leadership?

Not I.

Dear CHERFUL,

That was the same narrative I accepted for nearly 3/4s of my life so I can't be too harsh. Perhaps with more reading you might see things in a different light, who knows.

A question for you though. Did the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians start before Israel was attacked or after?

Interesting that the same right-wing Dutch newspaper that published the troublesome Mohammed cartoons had earlier refused to post a cartoon of a crucified Christ with a suggested erection because "it may be offensive to some people".

For all those looking for political, legal or military answers to the problem of radical Islam as a supposed solution - such will never work. The answer lies within their own religion - they follow an Arabian war lord in his passion, attitudes, teachings and activity.

Their claim even at the riot was they respected Jesus. This claim is a distortion of the fact, as Jesus teachings, attitudes and actions in no way was respected by them.

When Jesus was reviled he did not respond, even in self defence. To break the nexus of their attitudes the only way is for them to deal with what they claim they do respect and it was certainly not the chatacter of God as Jesus expressed. Forgivness and love for every man, even passionatly caring for the well beiing of ones enemy is the attitude Jesus lived. This attitude is the only possible breaking of political and personlal hostility held by these tribal radicals.

Examine the heart of the matter, even how we perceive what has to happen. All those throwing political and military verbal bombs at the situation will never move from behind their bunkers.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/victimology-airbrushes-oppression-against-own-20120919-266wc.html
It is apparent from the posting of the same links over and again in this thread some come only to post.
Not to read the posts of others.
And in not looking at other links, within reason, we do not get the full picture.
Of how the country is feeling.
Credit when it is due,csteele took the time to , in my opinion, unmask a true extremist, I had suspected such, been victim of that person, but only csteele took the work on.
I however know,and we all should, ordinary mums and dads, Liberals voters, Labor, greens, too share the concerns, radical if you wish, about a growing hatred of us, from within the Muslim community.
And Highlighted by the Lebanese section.

I am not withdrawing my praise csteele however once calling me that would have shaken you.
It remains an insult to my parents distance not age prevents the shaking.
You how ever have conned some, not me, you are an apologist for all things middle east.
On record here defending them and proven lies.
I doubt you are a balanced person and doubt too you are ever offended by their actions even beheading.
Jay of Melbourne has contributed some rubbish and insults, but is not unlike you a radical in sheep,s clothing.
I agree with yabby, HATE ME FOR IT! but in some things womens mother instincts overrule common sense.
Hasbeens son being bashed is an every day some times every hour event.
We do no favors to us- or the trouble makers by ignoreing extremes.
If answers come it will be after open and honest two sided talking about the reality of this issue.
May you find a middle path extreme ones lead no place.

When you have an Australian born Muslim, claiming to be an Aussie, and rightly so, yet growing up to hate Aussies, you know you have a problem.

This also proves that it's not the people that are the problem, it's the beliefs of their religion that is the problem, because after all, nobody, Australian or otherwise, is born to hate, they are tought to hate.

Therefore, the only way to solve this, is to ban the religion, including the likes of the burka, here in Australia.

People have to choose between their Muslim religion, or Australia, but they simply can't have both, as they (thier leaders) are incapable of protecting us Aussies and our peaceful way of life.

@ CSteele,

On the subject of cartoons & unfavorable media portrayals.Take a geeza at this lot and then tell me if it is not a teensy-weensy bit hypocritical for you and those you have allied yourself with to get offended with unfavorable media portrayals [and it is well worth remembering too that most of the examples cited are NOT from fringe media but from mainstream sites]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXYR1u0RRxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw2EisVqKZ4&feature=relmfu

http://www.adl.org/main_arab_world/arab_media_portrayal_jews.htm

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=786

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"[those who you have allied with need to take this literally]

Rechtub I share your concerns on this issue.
But believe banning the religion is unfair to those we never will have a problem with.
I however am constantly and forever concerned at such as csteele.
So very many of us make comment that ARE not related to truth.
A history of very near, anti Australian middle thought, and opinion, runs in csteele,and some who support,him? I am not yet convinced it is a he.
Can normal folk ignore both the unacceptable actions of the rioters, around the whole world, and the insignificance of the idiotic film.
At present the Royal family is haunted by the topless photo scandal.
Yet are WASPS running a muck in the streets?
A SECTION OF THE world wide Muslim community, is anchored in a faith that is not we are told Islam.
Why then is it increasingly hard to talk of it?
Why are we not looking at how very small the insult and how dreadful the reaction?
Why are we not being honest enough tosay this is unacceptable in any country?

"Those you have allied yourself with..."

Nice (shallow) one, SPQR...shades of Georgie Bush - "If you're not with us, you're against us"?

I believe csteele tries to discern the hypocrisy in all of this - something akin to Michael Leunig's sentiments in the link:

"...Well, my work is usually humanistic, so in a universal sense it can be safely assumed that I'm deeply reluctant about anybody's violent policies and deeds. Political cartooning is particularly interested in the phenomena of our hypocrisy and is not so much concerned with decrying the obvious conventional devil, but with revealing that there is a bit of devil in all of us....When you're alone on the receiving end of such malice and loathing you get a privileged insight into what lies beneath the surface of our "civilised" society. The Cronulla riots are only a small part of the mosaic..."

But carry on, SPQR.
Some minds are only capable of skating on the surface.

The cartoons published by moslem media are far worse than the cartoons
published in the west.
So what are the moslems complaining about ?
Perhaps the solution might be to publish thousands of cartoons made to
annoy moslems and so make the whole subject a joke.

A cartoon war if you like, it would be better than what we have now.

SPQR: Take a geeza at this lot and then tell me if it is not a teensy-weensy bit hypocritical for you and those you have allied yourself with to get offended with unfavourable media portrayals

You won't get Ali bin csteel to watch anything that shows her jihad friends in a bad light. I posted some Utube links showing what their plan is for the world, but she won't watch them or comment. I have watched all the links posted here.

There is some terrifying stuff. Especially the children on Arab TV. These children grow up & come to the West with intent. Ali bin csteel & friends support them. I think that all jihadists should be removed from Australia regardless as to whether they were born here or not. Nothing to do with Hate, just safety.

"....Ali bin csteel..."

(Jayb, no doubt, considers that a spectacular trump line - Da Da!)

Pathetic.....

If you guys weren't so typical of certain "limited" mindset, you'd be hilarious. As it is you're all boringly predictable.

@Poirot,

<<I believe csteele tries to discern the hypocrisy in all of this>>
You and I must be reading a different CSteele

When you read this (and other writings) from CSteele:
<<Michael Leunig relates; “As far as I remember, I have not done a cartoon about Israel for about a year, unless you count the ones about Iraq. Cartoonists are very reluctant to go near this prickly subject because there can be a large personal cost. One New Zealand cartoonist recently lost his job over such a cartoon>>

Do you not see an implication that Israel & Jews are a protected species: that they are getting a level of protection that Islam/The Arabs don't receive.

That being the case, it was quite proper for me to point out that in large stretches of the world where Israel and Jews generally, are the preferred game.
And it is particularly pertinent given that those elements who are most aggrieved by the recent film are those most active in pushing the anti-Jewish agenda.

@Poirot(2)
<<The Cronulla riots are only a small part of the mosaic...">>

It’s funny, but hardly unexpected, that whenever those on the left bring up (their iconic example of WASPs acting badly) the “Cronulla riots”, they never, ever, refer to the “retaliation” which was more long lasting and more violent than the initial “riot”.
<<groups armed with baseball bats …more than 40 cars… and drove down to the beaches “to get revenge”[1] with many of the cars ending up in Maroubra …A local of Maroubra reported that each of the cars that arrived was “full, you know had four passengers”[1] The convoy, of 100 to 200 people,[18][20] was reportedly armed with bars and bats, knives, machetes and guns.[1][18][21] The group assaulted several people, knocking one unconscious and threatening another with rape.[1][18][20] They also damaged between 60 and 100 cars, setting at least one on fire.[1][21] Police in riot gear moved to contain the violence and the crowds responded by throwing bricks and glass.[21][22] Residents reported that in some streets “every car”[23] had had their windows smashed, with glass covering the streets.[23] Police also confiscated 40 iron bars and arrested 14 people.[18][24]”>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

<<...shades of Georgie Bush>>
And I see you are still harping on about George W. I thought the blow-up doll of Georgie I linked you to would sate all your desires --perhaps, you really needed a blow-up CSteele doll.

SPQR,

I don't recall a link to a "blow-up doll" of George W....?

However, you did link to a voodoo doll of him. (If you recall, in reply I inquired if you had a link to an SPQR voodoo doll - although you haven't got back to me on that one. I understand, though, if you've switched allegiances to the blow-up variety : )

@Poirot,

<<If you recall, in reply I inquired if you had a link to an SPQR voodoo doll - although you haven't got back to me on that one. >>

Aw gosh, on short notice this is the best I can come up with :http://www.stardoll.com/en/dolls/21/Ashton_Kutcher.html

If you imagine a merging of Albert Einstein and Ashton Kutcher (and please resist the obvious quip) that is SPQR.

SPQR,

Things are looking up.

Albert Einstein was a true humanitarian, a humble and very wise man.

Poirot: (Jayb, no doubt, considers that a spectacular trump line - Da Da!)

Yes, an intended one. Da da! Though I suspect very, very close to the truth.

Does she & her ilk worry me. Too right, because the PC crowd seem to support them against ordinary Australians. If ever they do take control, & the PC crowd have to convert or get beheaded, they will say, (as the old Viet Cong do in Vietnam now,) "This is not what we fought for. We were duped."

Poi rot, have you watched any of the Utube videos SPQR & I have posted. No? I didn't think so.

I notice the Lady's are backing csteele.
And inferring we mear males are dead heads.
I remember too the police officer wrongly charged with asulting a Muslim convert and the grubs and thugs who formed a chain around the court.
Csteele support them, even when lies had been proved.
A PC like, well it is PC cloud is trying to force us to be silent.
To forget the murders the signs world wide.
Tells us we are bigots but not the mother of the behead sign.
Not the our dead are in paradise yours are inn hell.
We victimize the poor folk.
NO WE DO NOT!
Never be blinded by such .
It will be mostly the men who march off to defend our right to live, to worship or not,to live in the enemy of Islam, a democracy.

Belly,

"And inferring we mear males are dead heads."

No-one is attempting to silence you.

You and the others are reacting in a typical human manner to a "perceived" threat from without. You are all, in fact, fueling each others' fear and animosity in a mildly hysterical fashion...nothing new there - it's a very human and tribal response.

Michael Leunig is right that [the riot(s)] "....are only a small piece of the mosaic..."

*You and the others are reacting in a typical human manner to a "perceived" threat from without*

I guess it could be said that you Poirot, are arguing in a typically
human female fashion too, as I happen to perchance reread David
Buss's "Human Mating Strategies", as I was cleaning up.

Being feminine, your fight or flight response would be switched to
flight, running behind some male for protection, should a "threat"
ever get too close. Meantime, turning the other cheek is a dismal
failure in nature.

Csteele meanwhile believes in his Kumbaya culture, thinking that
reason will solve everything. Sadly that is not so, with deeply
engrained religious beliefs. The biggest killers of muslims are in
fact other muslims who have a different intepretration of their
holy book, no matter what is reasoned. Therin lies the problem and
therefor my comment, that wherever Islam goes, trouble surely follows.
If Muslim migrants had been say Buddhist migrants, we would not be
having this discussion.There is really no good reason why the obvious
should not be stated.

Yabby,

"Csteele meanwhile believes in his Kumbaya culture, thinking that reason will solve everything. Sadly, that is not so, with deeply ingrained religious beliefs..."

You may be right about that:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

It's fascinating how you and a few others turn this whole argument on the matter of gender...and even more fascinating that those of us who are labelled as being in the "feminine" camp are lambasted for appealing to "reason" instead of bellicose hysteria.

Just goes to show what savage beasties humans are beneath the facade of culture and "civilisation".

Well yes Poirot, I know I am right about that and yes, civilisation
as its called, is just paper thin. It doesen't take much to go back
to the laws of jungle, as we saw when New Orleans was flooded.

I also think that there is nothing wrong in pointing out the dangers
of religion, of whatever brand it is. It took the secular world
hundreds of years of battle
, to free itself somewhat from the
shackles of the Catholic Church. They did not achieve it by turning
the other cheek.

Pointing out the problems of Islam, is indeed a topic that should
be debated, without being accused of islamophobia or hysteria.
We really should not need to repeat this stuff again, in the Western
World.

Poirot I greatly admire you.
But as I live and breath will not let the feminine defense tactic stop me thinking as I want to.
Be there and done that, the crying, begging ,the whole pack.
No way ever again.
I would be the first to defend a MUSLIM woman child or man in trouble.
But know almost every one of them would walk past me in the gutter.
I am not blind we will see more, even hate to say it terrorism here,now SOME leaders say no more the mentally challenged will switch tactics.
I want to see real true accountability from these haters of me and for that matter you.
I reject your opinion of me in this matter as PC out of control.

Belly,

By all means, think as you want to - no-one is stopping you.

"...feminine defense tactic....crying, begging, the whole pack..."
Why thank you, Belly.

"But know almost every one of them would walk past me in the gutter."

Oh, you know that do you?...and, of course, you would protest at the generalisations of the rioters - yet you feel justified in generalising in reference to them

"...walk past me in the gutter." - you mean something like Westerners do to the people subsisting on Western streets?

"...of these haters of me..."

Who's that then, Belly?

Poirot,
you're starting to sound more & more like an illegal fundamentalist boat people person without papers.

And you're sounding exactly like individual.

Another dazzling example of profound analysis.

I agree with Yabby that we should discuss problems associated with religion. That should preclude - one would hope, in a civilised society - recourse to gross emotive conjecture and petty sloganeering such as your blather above, individual.

Poirot,
let's face it, you're running low on valid points. Is your lack of foresight preventing you from seeing the big picture ? Go out & experience the real world for a week. It'd do you good.

Csteele <That was the same narrative I accepted for nearly 3/4s of my life so I can't be too harsh. Perhaps with more reading you might see things in a different light, who knows.

A question for you though. Did the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians start before Israel was attacked or after?>

Csteele, I actually contemplated that very question whilst watching Q&A(Questions&Answers) on TV the other night. This very subject was being discussed.
I concluded that I do not actually have any factual information on that. I did hear of a few Suicide bombings including a school bus, before Israel built the wall. However I always have believed that the human race is territorially aggressive and it wouldn’t actually surprise me if maybe the Jews did discriminate against the Palestinians. Maybe there are books or stories as you say that I have not come across as yet. I do however have an open mind on the subject,if I can be informed of truthful incidents that happened before Israel was attacked by the Arabs.

As I have said before, I really don’t think there is a right or wrong in this Israel, Arab question, it is just that humans like animals need territory and territorial resources to survive and they have proven over and over again throughout history that they are territorially aggressive,(commonly called racism)and will kill over control of land and countries. The Jews are just as capable of territorial aggression,(racism),as the Arabs. As are we all.

Biological surivival instinct, but how to come up with answers to dampening down that aggression and living together peacefully is the question?

We will never find the answer whilst deluding ourselves that we are sweet little unagressive human creatures,very holy and incapable of violence. Christian and Jew and Islam. Best face the truth of our real Human nature and try to find solutions from that point of view. Difficult in the extreme. Especially with different religious ideologies to increase the divide.

GrahamY was messaged when this thread first started - it can be viewed as a very ugly thread.

Indeed, it is bringing out some very ugly responses and some valiant replies. To what end?

Whilst I assume Graham is moderating the comments, I also assume there are other 'powers that be' who will also be watching.

Sure, butcher's thread is achieving a high 'hit' rate - is it good for OLO? Perhaps, but perhaps not.

bonmot,
this might actually be a perfect time to say goodbye to this thread. It's degrading by the post to the same level as the subject of the thread.

Dear Belly,

It is difficult for me to convey how deeply disappointed I was to read your post where you stated;

“But know almost every one of them would walk past me in the gutter.”

If your anger towards me in any way contributed to your making it then I am sorry.

Dear CHERFUL,

Thank you for your post.

You have couched the Israel/Palestine conflict in terms of striving for territorial gains on a couple of occasions. One of the most alluring approaches to the issue is to simplify it since it seems to defy rational contemplation.

It took some Jewish writers to prompt me to explore things more deeply.

One of the great human abilities is to feel empathy, to be able to see things from another's perspective. I don't think we employ it nearly often enough.

"The cartoons published by moslem media are far worse than the cartoons
published in the west."

Really?

I don't think I've ever seen one.

Bonmot you although not always friendly to me are in my view one of the top five posters on this site.
I would not place myself in the top 20, as I tend to say it as I think, often harshly.
But can you justify asking for free speech, this subject, to be curtailed?
What subjects are out of bounds.
How do we address those problems.
Are the actions of SOME in this riot unacceptable?
Is there a chance the often stated hate against us is true in some cases.
csteele I do not hate you, I dislike you, in you I see, and if you can prove me wrong serve up the humble pie I will eat it.
*A standard issue Green woman/man* , Muslim defender at any cost.
Long weary of words smiths who call truth lies who condemn one side who refuse to even consider the middle path.
csteele no God exists,to fix this problem, words never will.
We need to stop pandering to ANY CREED.
Stop defending this middle ages hate,too.
You in every post infer my words are baseless and yours right.
I will not bend to such , a person who both over values their views and under values others is worse for it.
I know, have seen it, in some city streets some would walk on me to get past.

Wobbly said;
"The cartoons published by moslem media are far worse than the cartoons
published in the west."

Really?

I don't think I've ever seen one.

One of the posts here a couple of days back had links to some of them.
Also some Utube videos. Pretty horrid stuff really.
Much worse than anything about moslems published in the west.
I think they could be found by google without difficulty.

I don't think I've ever seen one.
Wobbles,
I didn't know you were blind, my apologies. There was one particular picture where a child held up a sign for all those who offended islamists to be beheaded. That's quite a lot more radical than some cartoons.

Wobbles: I don't think I've ever seen one

This was posted by SPQR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw2EisVqKZ4&feature=relmfu.

A beautifully made cartoon aimed a children.

Lots more as well. please take the blindfold off before watching.

In defence of those Muslims who cut the throat of an American Jew, because he was both.
Who Murdered near 3.000 in the twin towers who included Muslims.
Who hate non-Muslims world wide.
And SOME of the true trouble making radical idiots who hate us but live a mungst us.
I wish to say I am sorry.
Sorry your hate, un-concern for the laws of your hosts, the rights of them too, and the rights of your Children to grow up in this country with freedom of choice.
I can not agree your faith should be banned or your relatives stopped from coming.
But I do demand an end to threats and demands that we change, not you.
I warn the mother instict may blind SOME of our women, but not as many men.
IF wea ll become soft history shows you will get harder to live with.

You're probably right, Belly.

We are a complementary species after all...and us women folk (excluding csteele coz he's a bloke) need our blokes for physical protection against "the other side's blokes", because blokes tend to physical violence as a way of solving disputes or imposing belief systems.

Not always, of course, but often that's the way it is.

So, yup, we depend on the "unsoftness" of you men and your attitudes to protect us from the same traits in the men who would threaten us...seems to be a pattern there, although I can't quite put my finger on it.

You'll have to excuse my silly feminine idea that perhaps we could all attempt to find some common ground - if we really try. Sheesh, with our over-sized neo-cortex and accompanying intelligence, is it too much to ask that we use it?

Perhaps somewhere down the evolutionary track we might make some headway....although I presume we'll send ourselves extinct before that day comes.

Ah Poirot, we love you just as you are :)

The thing is, a test of your method is there for all to see. Now
be honest, despite your best intellectual efforts, do you think that
you have changed Runner's religious beliefs one little bit over the
years? Now why do you think that the same effort would change
the minds of hard line Islamic fundamentalists?

I read somewhere that the trouble came from the Wahabi extremists
who have settled in Sydney. These are people who learned to hate
from when they were little kids. These were the people bearing
the signs " we will go to paradise, you will go to hell". These
were the people bearing the sixth pillar on their chests.

Quite honestly Poirot, no matter how smart you are, I don't think
you will change such engrained extremist beliefs, for its not about
reason, its about fanatical dogma. The only way to deal with them,
is from a position of strength. Personally I am intolerant of the
intolerant.

Hiya, Yabby,

Yes, I do see your point.

For instance,I sometimes marvel at runner's rock-solid insistence that evolutionary theory is a fraud.

Just as an aside, my cousin who was an outstanding student, who became a teacher and is now a health educator completing a PhD, became a Christian nearly thirty years ago. I was talking to her one day when she first began nursing, and was shocked when she mocked evolutionary theory...I mean I was gobsmacked given her antecedents and the turnaround in her thought processes.

Yabby,

Poirot,

I think it is reasonable to talk use the term "evolution denier" in the same sense we use the term "Holocaust denier."

I'm not suggesting a moral equivalence between the two. But I don't know how else to describe them. Like Holocaust deniers, evolution deniers use all kinds of rhetorical tricks, outright lies and pseudo-science in order to mislead people.

Viruses evolve
and become stronger than the measures used to treat them last time. Hence the everchanging flu vaccine.

Didn't they find a treatment at one point for Aids based on the fact that viruses can mutate and evolve?

They trick the virus into mutating by changing the body's defences with some kind of medicine or medical procedure and then when the Aids virus mutates, they let the body's defence system change back to the way it was again.

Although it doesn't cure the virus it keeps it in a form of limbo where it can't become completely dominant over the body's defences. Don't ask me the details, it was just an interesting program I watched on Television a couple of years ago.

There certainly exists a form of survival of the fittest on the planet but I still wonder about the presence of the more intelligent apes and orangatans and why they never evolved into humans.

stevenlmeyer

your conclusion is foolish. The holocaust happened. Humans were created. Only indoctrination blinds you of the obvious.

All ideologies and that includes religion should be open to scrutiny and debate. Even more so, light should be thrown on any fundamentalism, where-ever found. This is not racism.

csteele has an avuncular affection towards Islam and Middle Eastern peoples (except Israel, of course). Islamic peoples, all 1.6b of them are victimised by the 13m Jews worldwide, but especially by Israelis (7m - of whom some 70% are Jewish).

csteele, ol' bean,

You write of the ills of censorship ... I agree.

You will be delighted to know that the PC crowd have been overtaken by the initiative of Muslims in Britain. Wondering why the news, especially of the BBC and other media, was so skewed, these facts emerged.

In Britain media is self-censoring itself when is comes to criticising Islam and by extension the Middle East.

Fear is actually shaping media policies; and Islamist violence underpins BBC self-censorship.

In an interview with BBC Director General, Mark Thompson, during the University Oxford project, Free Speech Debate, admitted that the Salman Rushdie was “an absolute watershed,” ... then there was 9/11.

Furthermore, confessed: "A threat to murder … massively raises the stakes."

Adding: "'I complain in the strongest possible terms'

is different from ...

'I complain in the strongest possible terms and I'm loading my AK47 as I write.'"

freespeechdebate.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Mark-Thompson-on-the-BBC-religion2.pdf#page=6

Freedom of Speech is wonderful ... It just depends on whom is yelling the loudest

Poirot,

My mother defined the word 'chivalry'.

She said it was a word to describe the male instinct to protect women from all other men, but themselves.

Hi Poirot,

I have a warped admiration for your ability to divert discussion away from the main topic. I'm sort of making a study of how you do it so often. Brilliant.

Now back to the topic: should people, of whatever background, be allowed to throw a tanty and break the law ? No, I don't think so.

Should people be allowed to shout out "Feck Australia !" and stay in Australia ? I'm not so sure. They always have choices - to stay here and submit to the laws associated, more or less, with equality and democratic society - or to go back to some ancestral homeland, perhaps Lebanon or Syria, and face the current slings and arrows of such vibrant and active communities.

I recommend that they immerse themselves in Australian society, polity and mores, good and bad, and join the rest of us in keeping 'church' and state separate.

Cheers,

Joe

:)

Loudmouth (of strawman fame : )

Yes, I agree you have a warped something-or-other....acctuuallly I was replying to Belly's hobby-horse that womanish/feminine views were misguided on this subject.

Danielle,

Your mother was obviously a wise woman : )

Poirot,

Indeed.

I always enjoy your comments here immensely. Everyone else does to; you have a great fan base.

You manage to slip in those witty few words and someone comes a cropper ...

As mentioned before, we may not always agree, but I always respect - and am invariably amused - by your offerings. A breath of fresh air!

If freedom is the goal, then it's absolutely essential that religion, any religion, be kept 100% separated from governance ... ALL governance.

Current "fundamentalist" Islam is JUST as evil, violent, intolerant and controlling as mainstream Christianity was until a few hundred years ago. While current mainstream Islam, which is over 90% of Islam worldwide, is much the same as current Christianity, meaning it's "relatively" intolerant and "relatively" controlling while still bowing (often with protest) to the secular laws of the land. Religious belief, by it's very nature, encompasses various degrees of intolerance and attempted control (just look at the far right wing Christian movement in the USA, they are true nutters, and should they ever gain "real" governance, then the USA can kiss goodbye to true freedom).

Eventually, and it will probably take several thousands of years, science will likely have all the answers that explain existence. Then, humanity will look back at religious belief as an ancient curiosity that demonstrates lack of knowledge, lack of education, primitiveness, superstition and an often inhumane and sometimes brutal tool for control.

Dear Danielle ol' celery stick,

Work has been rather consuming but I felt it necessary to find time to answer your post.

Burton Joseph died a little over two years ago. He was a lawyer and a Jew. Burton's parents ran a business looking after Jewish cemeteries.

Skokie is a suburb in Illinois and in 1977 one in six among its large Jewish population was either a Holocaust survivor or directly related to one.

The National Socialist Party of America decided to march through Skokie. Their pamphlets announcing the event included images of swastikas reaching out to throttle Jews and emboldened type announced “We are Coming!”.

Understandably many civic and private organisations attempted to block the march. Burton Joseph was instrumental in convincing the American Civil Liberties Union to take the case to defend the right of the NSPA to march. They won.

Burton Joseph is one of a considerable number of Jewish people such as Noam Chomsky who inspire me and influenced my world view. I understand and admire their positions which they adopt despite, although I prefer to think because of, their Jewishness.

I have greater difficulty understanding why someone like stevenlmeyer would be mixing it with the likes of Jay of Melbourne on a thread such as this, but accept my probable sin of over-romanticizing.

I read things like “But know almost every one of them would walk past me in the gutter.” as pre-cursive and disturbing, especially as the author claims to represent middle Australia.

While certainly not claiming any moral equivalence between Skokie and Sydney, the position that the protests about the film are an assault on our free speech almost demeans the notion. Anything short of violence was exercising of the very right we say we are trying to defend.

Freedom of expression is a vital defence against tyranny and as such is too important just to play lip service toward.

It shouldn't take an Australian Burton Joseph for us to realise it.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/disunity-not-anger-is-muslim-dilemma-20120921-26c4m.html
I am having fun with the links.
Not my words but links to? MAINSTREAM THOUGHT!
Yet so badly have I blotted my copy book some refuse to read them, but finding SOMETHING in them post them here again and again.
I am unconvinced csteele is a bloke.
Think this link, truly, explains why we are hearing so many different views from this community.
Now the big hurdle.
Poirot, know how you girls get in the corner getting in to the plonk talking about the men?
We do it too! about you women.
Thanks for the difference mother nature you non existent old girl!
Thanks too for the bloke who speaks woman, even if he is only useing that skill, for sure as many women speak bloke, until his wallet is empty.
Thanks for the mother instinct, too,even when it gets it wrong.
As women say men have faults men know it is two sided.
Yet you cannot live without them.
And in some cases with them!
Lady,s know I love all women, even the poor soles walking two paces behind a fat man in a dress who regards them as property.

We are simply treating the symptom and not the cause.

The symptom is the violence, the cause is the religion.

Just remember, nobody is born to hate, they are taught to hate.

If the riots get ugly, as suggest this weekend in the likes of Melbourne, I say, that's it, time to rid OUR NATION of this crap.

Muslims either choose Australia or their religion, but they can't have both, not here.

After all, this is Australia we are talking about!

Belly,

You're the one who first decided to split this discussion down gender lines.

Do I appear to you like a woman who congregates "...in the corner getting into the plonk talking about men"?

Surely, in that case, I must be frequenting the wrong forum.

"...for sure as many women speak bloke until his wallet is empty....even the poor soles walking two paces behind a fat man in a dress who regards them as property."

You're a charmer this morning, Belly.

I'll just add....that if I was walking behind "a fat man in dress", I'd make bloody sure I was more than two paces behind him - so he wouldn't hear the sound of my mirth.

Danielle,

Merci beaucoup : )

>>I have greater difficulty understanding why someone like stevenlmeyer would be mixing it with the likes of Jay of Melbourne>>

What on Earth are you talking about?

For the record I agreed with Burton Joseph at the time and said so. It earned me considerable brickbats. I'm actually old enough to remember these incidents.

And I have also fought for the right of Australia's Gerald Toben to propagate his Holocaust denial views. As I have stated numerous times on these boards the right to free speech is not restricted to the right to say things that meet with my approval. It includes the right to say things that I find abhorrent.

Apart from EXPLICIT incitement to violence NARROWLY DEFINED I think people should be allowed to say pretty much what they like.

There should be no such thing as a right not to be offended.

I have expressed these views many times both on OLO and elsewhere.

Nice try, Poirot :)

Now back to topic.

Steven, I fully agree with you, that the right to free expression necessarily includes the right to say and write things that we might disagree totally with.

This may even include inciteful expressions such as "Feck Australia!" provided they are not accompanied by the throwing of bottles or bashing of police with poles.

So on the one hand, free speech must include the right to offend, but on the other, it should not incite violence, such as "Behead all those who insult the prophet." Such a banner in the hands of a child should invite enquiries by child welfare authorities.

The Australian has two terrific articles today, on pages 15 and 16, one by the brilliant and courageous (take note, Poirot) Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As the first article notes about the issues facing all of us, in relation to the Muslim Brotherhood [and by implication, many other Islamist organisations]:

"For them, a rightfully ordered Islamic world satisfies the laws God decreed for the faithful in the Koran, and these are closed to the slightest modification, his words unalterable forever."

The writer goes on:

"Obedience is the demand placed on the faithful, with the death penalty obligatory in cases of disobedience. Scholarship long ago took the mystique of divine revelation out of the Christian bible, but nothing like that has been done with the Koran. Like communism, Islam is an ideology with no conceivable half-measures."

I would disagree slightly on that last point: there are strands of communism which are much more libertarian, free-thinking if you like, which put humans before models, practicality before Utopias - Erich Fromm's democratic socialism, for example. And of course, there still are backward Christian sects who rely on revelation, groups which Poirot, to be consistent, would have to defend.

But the gist is that, in modern societies, based on the rule of law and human equality, and the infinitely correctability of everything, there is no role for pre-feudal philosophies, to fix everything in place forever.

Joe

Loudmouth,

I'm not averse to discussing the subject of any thread. (my initial contribution to this thread was dismay at mankind's penchant for aggression) I am, however, averse these days to interacting with "you" - having been the recipient repeatedly of your targeted animosity.

It seems increasingly likely that when I go promenading down OLO's shady avenues, that you'll spring out from behind a tree and throw a rhetorical pie in my face....simply because you enjoy lobbing them in my direction.

Mostly when you address me lately you are extremely antagonistic and often belligerent. That is not the action of someone who wishes to debate the issue. It is the behaviour of someone whose only object is to goad and provoke a fellow poster.

Perhaps it's time to find another hobby.

(Btw, I expect you'll have much fun pulling apart my earlier "promenading" metaphor....go for it!)

Ahh, hum, gee, not sure I should speak.
Ah, well OK but forgive me, did I see an insult or two aimed at us men, from about the start of the thread.
A bit of condemnation for?, well saying what I think.
Is it wrong to do that.
Many say things here I do not believe but being upset, convinced an element in the Muslim community are bad for this country.
Being the racist male pig I am, well not actually, I think Rechtub has every right to be as upset as he is.
But is on the wrong track wanting to outlaw the creed or its practice.
So placing myself, not on the edge but squarely in the middle of Australian mainstream thought.
Saying get the dresses of get the atitude packed away, give us the respect you demand of us.
And know the film was not reason to get back in to the dark ages, a short trip for SOME of you, or go.
Then know I am not moving on this issue.

Poi rot:

It seems increasingly likely that when I go promenading down OLO's shady avenues, that you'll spring out from behind a tree and throw a rhetorical pie in my face....simply because you enjoy lobbing them in my direction.

Mostly when you address me lately you are extremely antagonistic and often belligerent. That is not the action of someone who wishes to debate the issue. It is the behaviour of someone whose only object is to goad and provoke a fellow poster.

Perhaps it's time to find another hobby.

Dito

Jayb

The thing is Csteele, there remains one major unresolved issue
between the Islamic world and the Western world. The Islamic world
wants us to respect what they believe and deny us free speech,
with threats of violence if we do not accept their terms and
conditions. So violent has been their response, that even Pakistanis
are dying, as buildings are burned down.

So in essence, they want to deny you the very thing that you seem
to be fighting for.

We can only be expected to respect peoples right to believe whatever
they want, not whatever they believe. Otherwise we really would be
in trouble, if we would be denied the right to say what we think about
the Catholic Church or any other church, whilst these religions would
go on preaching their dogma with impunity. Some Christians as well
as Islam, become highly political and ride on the back of religion
to achieve their political aims. That makes politics rather one sided,
if one cannot express what one really thinks, about the opposition
and their claims, every time they quote from their holy book.

This core issue remains largely unresolved, so disputes will continue.

Another nice try, Poirot :)

Now back to topic:

How to resolve the dilemma of people being able to integrate into a relatively modern, relatively democratic, society when they may instead still be immersed in revelatory-religious, inegalitarian, static and male-centred ideology - even when they have also sought to come to Australia, or to stay here in the country of their birth, precisely because of its freedoms, its modernity, and its free-and-easy, up yours, nature.

No doubt we all have a lot to learn about how to get on with each other, but we must surely start - and finish - on the basis of the rule of law, equality of the sexes, and an awareness of rapid change. Things will never be the way they were, neither for ultra-conservative Khalifists nor for diehard Liberal voters, nor for that matter, for Stalinists.

Feel free to discuss, Poirot :)

Cheers,

Joe

I know Muslims who are genuinely horrified at what has occurred in Sydney. The state, as do the the Imams in my area, that they are "Australians first, and Muslims second."

Knowing the interfaith community to which Muslims contribute, I have no doubt as to their sincerity.

Does anyone know of the Council for the National Interest, Melbourne?

"Australia Censors Free-speech" (this article carries a link to Council for the National Interest "Secret Saudi Funding of Radical Islamic Groups in Australia" which might explain some of the extremist elements being witnessed)
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3358/australia-geert-wilders

This body has produced a report is well referenced, so seems to have a degree of validity.

Somewhat worrying, the report states that Sheik Halili (yes "the cat meat" one) of Lakemba Mosque is being challenged by a fundamentalist who wishes to take over Halili's position.

Why don't these Muslims do what Christians do when insults are thrown at their faith?

Pray like mad for the offenders' souls.

At least one could, perhaps, observe one spark of good out of this :-/

Middle Eastern Muslims, who otherwise would be killing each other ... so regularly, and in such numbers, such news is now tedious ... perhaps are showing some sort of cohesion.

Well maybe ... It depends upon which particular Allah or Mohammad has been insulted.

Csteele, ol' bean, ol' chum,

You have stated that your embrace the ideology of Political Correctness. How does that equate with freedom of speech?

I do enjoy your peons to self-worth ...

Have you written your obituary yet? I hazard that this will be released on your demise - (hopefully, many years yet down the track) in serial form.

Yabby: The thing is Csteele, rather one sided, ...................
if one cannot express what one really thinks, about the opposition
and their claims, every time they quote from their holy book.

Thank you Yabby I have tried to get that very message across many times but seemingly I get ignored.

Danielle: Somewhat worrying, the report states that Sheik Halili (yes "the cat meat" one) of Lakemba Mosque is being challenged by a fundamentalist who wishes to take over Halili's position.

That's frightening. What's next, a fully blown terrorist Imam?

The Muslim people in your area may be horrified about the demonstration but they still are working for an Islamic Caliphate in Australia. See the link below.

http://www.hizb-australia.org/events/item/372-khilafah-conference-2012

On Danielle post here is another post from the same Organization. It's something I have asked on OLO many times & been denigrated for it.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3354/muslim-protests

A Muslim asks the same question.

I see a very basic and clear ignorance from "some" people on this thread. Some people STILL, in these enlightened days, refuse to accept the HUGE differences between Islam and "fundamentalist" Islam.

Rioters, murderers, terrorists and Islamic bigots are still referred to as if they are mainstream Muslims. The MAJORITY of Muslims live in first world countries and stable countries, and are no more dangerous than Christians.

Some people here need to drop their anti Muslim bigotry, stop listening to the right wing shock jocks and gain a more educated and tolerant world view.

IM ASKING
WHO FIRST USED THE WORD

*RIOT*

a busted window..bruised pride
no deaths..no ripping up roads to throw
no petrol bombs..no busted shop windows..

RIOT what rot!

that Is ..*the lie >>..right there!
who first called it

...*A RIOT*>>!?

Pete, I am the first to agree that not all Muslims are bad people, in fact, the bad ones make up a small percentage.

However, they, good or bad have chosen to follow their leaders, not ours.

So in my opinion, this means that their leaders have a duty to make sure that their people follow our rules.

Obviously, they (the Muslim leaders) have failed and, if they are incapable of controlling the violent actions of their people, their people should either stop following their leaders, or leave.

The Greeks, Chineese, Italians, poms etc etc that we have accepted here have one thing in common, they are not taught to hate, nor do they provided thier little kids with placards suggesting beheading.

And remember, while not all Muslims are terrorists, you can pretty much guarantee all terrorists are Muslims.

To risk letting just one extremist potential terrorist into our great, peace loving nation, is ome risk too many in my view.

Diamond Pete,

This news report may be encouraging, along the lines that you are talking about:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/14921240/libyan-protesters-eject-militants-from-benghazi-4-killed/

Is that the sort of thing you mean ?

Cheers,

Joe

DiamondPete: The MAJORITY of Muslims live in first world countries and stable countries, and are no more dangerous than Christians.

What planet do you live on.

Saudi Arabia/Iraq/Lebanon/Iran/Pakistan/Egypt/Palestine even Turkey/Albania/Bosnia are not 1st world countries. Apart from the major cities most small towns don't have electricity or paved roads. None of them are what anyone would call stable. Most of the people in the countryside still live very basic 16th century lives based on 16th century customs. They still practice bride stealing, etc in some areas of the Balkans & around the Dead Sea. Even in the Christian areas.

Of course, if you are referring to Fundamentalist Christians in the US then I agree & I put them on a par with the Taliban.

My ex next door neighbour paid us a visit a few days ago. She brought her American boyfriend with her. I asked him about the Fundamentalist Christians. He said that he lives close to a town in Kansas where they are all Christian Fundamentalists. He said that it's a scary place. They are also Domsdayists waiting for the Lord to return, "next week." At least they are quite funny, well, they would be if they weren’t so scary.

Lord help us & keep us safe from the weirdos.

UOG: You still scare the crap outta me.

Rehctub's last post is a good example of what I'm talking about when I refer to uneducated,unworldly, anti Muslim bigotry. Rehctub wrote that good Muslims here have chosen to not follow our leaders. What uneducated rubbish from Rehctub. Good Muslims are JUST as law abiding as good Christians and good atheists and good Jews and good Buddhists etc etc.

"Some" slaves to right wing, shock jock politics in this country need to acquire an actual education and move out of the 18th century.

Jayb, hundreds of millions of Muslims were born, bred and live in countries like the USA, Canada, Australia, France, Sweeden, Russia, Germany, Argentina, England, New Zealand, .... the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on. I'm so glad that I could educate you on this important matter. Education is a wonderful thing, and opens one up to the real world.