http://www.perthnow.com.au/money/the-tricks-they-try-to-cash-in-on-the-dying/story-e6frg2uc-1226288397035

This article got me thinking. After I read the conference details,
it became clear that the charity business can be quite ruthless
at extracting funds from donors.

Many on OLO seem to have the belief that business equals bad,
charity equals good. As we can see from the evidence, that is
clearly not the case. Pericles once pointed out, that given the
huge salaries paid to CEOs of various charities, they are hardly
a charity, more like a business.

What charities are actually worth supporting?

A good question yabby, one I would like an answer to.
I have seen donated furniture, in very good condition dumped.
And rooms full of toys, after Christmas.
Charity's some times, get 10% from the top.
Still think a community chest type system, one place to donate ,many causes and charity's is worth thought.

Yabby , I've arrived at the same conclusion.My number one charity is about our freedom. http://www.ae911truth.org/ When you all face the truth,there will be little need of charities,since free people will be independant of Govt and their Corporate Masters.

Arjay , no bitterness, no intent to annoy, but bloke!
Your intrusion in to a thread to put your hobby horse once more on display is unneeded.
True.
If to high light your thoughts diversion of discussions of importance is ok then maybe it is your views that are in need of review.
Some substance exists in some of your concerns, financial at least, but you drive support away.

Isn't some money getting to whoever needs it better than none?

A couple of relevant issues
- the tactics used to get money (the subject of this thread)
- how much of the money actually goes to help (also highly relevant)

I made the mistake a couple of years ago of buying a raffle ticked from a charity with an association with dogs (not the mad kind). Found myself absolutely bombarded with calls, letters and emails seeking more. I was being rung on an what appeared to be a weekly basis as well as a lot of written communication. Numerous attempts to get them to back off failed (eventually I got the message through) but I will never deal with that charity again.

I also started to find it very difficult to determine how much of my giving (or raffle purchases in some cases) would actually go to the charity, most callers seemed to duck and weave around that question.

Eventually got to the point where I've picked one charity which a friend has some personal knowledge of and any giving I do generally goes there. No raffles, prizes etc and as far as I can tell most goes to the intended purpose.

One of the downsides of the tactics used by the charities is that it creates a level of distrust and cynicism. To much hard sell and a lot of people turn off to it all, the good ones become hard to pick from the bad.

R0bert

it has been common knowledge..for a long time
that charity..is big business

is it right..to allow single figures of charity aid
to go to wages...clearly its a glass coin..
or like a glass window..into a steel vault..

the tactics..it takes to hound 'charity'
prerably via direct bank discredit monthly
[heck weekly..if it gets an extra percentage]

is it fair...that one gets private gain
from all that massive public pain

[its like saying...only every tenth charity gift counts
90%..is still going to the doing of vile...[or if not vile...not going to the intended good]

its like being ripped off 9 times
by faulse pretenders..to actually do charity once

anyone can see its insane
the rich money maker...gets 9 times the assistance..as the dirt poor

even then..so much is spent..on brandnew vehicles/travel
and raising more funds to go to not charity

we all know what its like
you give a little..[they just see a come-in spinner
charity..a sure *SUKKER*..sign]

[but its a busines model..that has worked throughout time
that is why there is still need..the easy money attracts the greed]

true charity is annonimous
or protection money,...to islolate the problem

who in the end gets the charity
is at the decree and discretion of the one holding the purse

or delivering it
to its mates..or mates of mates
or to buy political favour.

how it should be done..is there is need
make the greedy pay[if your income came from the poor]
or took their wealth away..when the 'poor' plea..your 'rich' must pay

where charity is needed
evil has come..and gone
just moved on

or waiting
..for the payoff

*Found myself absolutely bombarded with calls, letters and emails seeking more*

Thats a good point, Robert. I once donated to a wildlife organisation, after the Blue Mountains had been alight and lots
of wildlife needed looking after. A friend in Sydney chose the
organisation for me. But I was subsequently bombarbed with
regular glossy brochures etc, wanting more. I wondered how much
was actually being spent on the wildlife and how much for administration.

I guess one worthy charity that we all need to remember is in
fact right here, OLO. I guess we just take it for granted too often.

The charity industry, and that's just what it is, an industry, has been a scam for years.

Most of those drop off points with salvos, or the likes written all over them, uses to be owned by private firms, profit makers, profiting from good people's generosity, as they simply paid the advertised foundation on the box a small fee to use their brand, although they have faided away to some extent in recent times, due mainly to cheap imports.

The best charity in my view is something in your home town, that you can see for yourself, is benefitting the intended.

Another great form of charity, is volunteering during a crisis as usually, the funds are one issue, but bums on the ground are often hard to come by.

I support Saint Vincent de Paul Society in my hometown.
Because the Society's own research shows that:

"Existing stereotypes of homelessness as an aging man with a
dependence on alcohol is no longer relevant. The average age of
a single homeless man today is just 35 years and single women both
young and old, single parent families and those escaping domestic
violence are also in dnger of finding themselves on the brink of
homelessness or homeless."

Contributing factors are drought, rural poverty, mental health
issues, depression, domestic violence, addiction, family and
relatioship breakdown and financial pressure. Many people are on the
street because of the closure of public mental institutions. They
suffer from moderate to severe psychiatric illnesses, often linked to drug or alcohol problems.

"Vinnies" is a Catholic lay organisation. It is Australia's largest
charity. Social and class distinctions are ignored. "Need" is the
only test applied. No one is asked about their religion, race,
social status, gender preference, or belief.

They work through home visitation and directly assist needy families
and people with food vouchers and the payment of bills. They are
free of clerical control, this is the work of self-directed laity
whose aims are meeting the needs of those most marginalised in
society. Volunteers don't have to be Catholics, in some places
more than half are not.

What is extraordinary is the range of services offered by Vinnies.
The total number of people annually assisted by Vinnies is an
extraordinary 1.8 million and counting.

While the Society is primarily geared to service at the coalface,
Vinnies' leadership has been increasingly willint to confront the
structural issues that lead to poverty and deprivation in the
first place. While this has caused considerab le debate, nowadays the
Society's leadership is willing to speak out.

The Salvation Army provides similar services and they are very
up-front about publicising their activities. In contrast, Vinnies
are unobtrusive, publicity-shy, de-centralised, less hierarchical,
and far less obviously prominent. They represent Catholicism at its
best.

I will use the same line when I set up my charity, StG.

>>Isn't some money getting to whoever needs it better than none?<<

I'll also talk about how the well-off should help those less fortunate than themselves, and how bad they would feel if one more African child/tortured dog/rare wild bird/homeless person (or any combination thereof) were to suffer one minute longer, thanks to their stinginess.

I'd point out endlessly that the government was not doing enough for these people, and the survival, for one more day, of the African child/tortured dog/rare wild bird/homeless person was entirely dependent on the donation that people like them pull out of their wallet.

I'd also make sure that my people scanned the Deaths column for anyone likely to leave a bob or two (there are usually clues in the obit), and make sure the rellos knew that the dear departed's last wish was that my charity should receive a shedload of money - only she didn't quite get round to writing it down...

My own reward for this would be, of course, quite modest. Who would be a good, honest benchmark? How about that lovely Tim Costello... what is he surviving on? Oh, only a quarter of a mill...

http://www.worldvision.com.au/Libraries/Annual_Report_2011/WVA_Annual_Statements_and_Accounts_FY11_-_Final.pdf

And that's an organization that has total revenues of around $350 million - of which $50 million comes in the form of grants. And on the other side of the ledger, the money goes to other people's projects... how easy is that.

A business of that size would not be a stretch for a competent administrator on $90-120,000. And I bet she'd only need half the staff of Captain Tim.

Lexi you pick one of the best Vinny's care nothing for what Church you are in.
And like the Sally's, well better in fact they help.
So they get my cash and cloths, my suits and best gear went there after work life.
Can bury me in stubbys and union shirt.
Yabby good on you bloke! for reminding us about OLO.
Small efforts can have big results

Yabby
I tend to agree - charities are not excluded from ethical accountability on name alone.

However the premise of your thread is to generalise and dabbles in the fallback position of any criticism of the influence of wealth and/or power as either the tall poppy syndrome or bash the rich which only serves to dismiss legitimate concerns in many cases.

Most reasonable people, even on OLO, would no doubt transfer that same sense of fair play and ethical measures to charitable organisations. Why wouldn't they?

Basically any organisation or some of it's peoples can be corrupted.

I don't give a cent to charities supporting the "underprivileged" as I have seen much misuse of them in many areas. As I don't know enough to pick those worth support I support none.

I used to support the Royal Flying Doctor Service, until they went a bit upmarket, & turned into a free regional air taxi service.

I now support 2 helicopter rescue services, as I am damn sure that the people they are helping really do need the help, & right now.

Pericles,

So, donate nothing. Make a stand on your little mound of moral high ground and don't donate based on principle. I know some disabled people who would really appreciate your stance in spite of their needs because the charity they work for have people in administration.

...oh, they'd appreciate no job collecting for their charity, either ... because of your mound...

The SES work that way too. Life Savers. Rural Fire. Care Flight. Red Cross. Search and Rescue. You know, those guys that saved countless lives in my area during the floods last year.

The problem with Vinnies is that they are not allowed to pick and choose.

I used to get several vouchers for meat from them, generally $20.00.

It used to frustrate both myself and the Vinnies guy, when the recipient would have a slab of beer,a bottle of bourbon, or even smokes, sometimes all of the above in their trolley, then come in and seek free meat.

He used to shake his head and say, there's nothing we can do about it, if they ask, we have to give.

In my opinion the best place to address charity wows, would be to stop welfare waste.

That's a really high horse you are on, StG.

>>Pericles, So, donate nothing. Make a stand on your little mound of moral high ground and don't donate based on principle<<

The topic under discussion is not charity, per se.

The topic is "charities", and the way they are used as a gravy train by people who have less interest in the end-result than in their personal enrichment.

It is about the way that we are manipulated through guilt to give money to people who make a feather-bedded living from it - running a charity is a walk in the park, compared with actually managing a real business, complete with suppliers and consumers.

If you must know - although it is no business of yours - I donate regularly to a small number of charities that I know from personal experience are managed by, and populated with, dedicated folk who care more about their responsibilities than their pockets.

>>The SES work that way too. Life Savers. Rural Fire. Care Flight. Red Cross. Search and Rescue. You know, those guys that saved countless lives in my area during the floods last year.<<

Yep, that sort of thing. But you know, they would get far more support from the public if the professional guilt-mongers didn't take so much "look-at-me, aren't I so caring" air-time.

lets muddy more water
ziggy forrest..minimises tax
by gifting to charity..[aint it great when you can pick and chose..where your 'tax' goes]

no doudt anmy charity..would think it clever
to issue..*a tax deductable reciept
for 9 times..the actual ammount donated

same thing
fraud runs though many a loop hole

"no doudt anmy charity..would think it clever
to issue..*a tax deductable reciept
for 9 times..the actual ammount donated"

Any that were subject to audit might find that put them in nasty spot. Say the real amount was $100k and you issue a receipt for $900k you might be left trying to explain where the other $800k had gone.

Seems like a losing proposition for whoever wrote the receipt.

R0bert

Here's a nice story - leaving out the middle-man.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-06/mystery-donations-handed-out-in-germany/3870432

http://www.ccfmtn.org/leave-legacy.htm

Well this is still one of my favourite money extracting lines,
this time used by the religious:

"Convert earthly treasures to heavenly ones"

I guess they first sell you the ticket to heaven and then imply
that you can take it with you, after all. What clever marketing!

Pelican, on the first URL that I posted, I downloaded the
conference details, for which charity people had paid 3 grand to
attend. Looking at the topics, IMHO its all hard sell, not much
different to insurers or any other business marketers. Clearly
every marketing trick in the book is being used to extract money
from people.

Think of all the people in the community with no kids, all their
bequests, all the real estate that they own, it all goes somewhere
and it would add up to huge amounts each year.

When they are getting close to falling off the old perch, they would
also be at their most vulnerable and many would no doubt like to think
that it would actually do some good, somewhere. Clearly a whole
lot of organisations are doing their darndest to get their share
of the loot.

No argument from me Yabby.

I remember a few years ago applying for a job at an well known Charity and finding out the salary was well below the award wage (even including weekends) while the CEO raked in thousands above the industry standard (by comparison with other charities). After querying the wage I was told charities and NFP don't have to conform to the same IR obligations. But it seems he was quite happy funding his own inflated salary from donations and some minimal government funding. Naturally I told him to shove it but in the nicest possible way. One expects to earn less working for a NFP often coming with tax concessions, but not what one would consider an illegal wage in any other circumstance.

As for your link and other dubious marketing tactics, it would be a shame if charities (too late already for some) forget the very ethical principles that come embedded in the concepts of 'charity' in not applying these principles to their businss activities.

Lol! It seems that the long-arm of the charities has reached out and joined us here today in the form of Allabout!
Hands up all of you who will be rushing to that website to give money?
No?

I am a bit of a skeptic where most charities are concerned too. I will only buy tickets in raffles for charities, rather than just give money.
Maybe that says more about me than the charities?

While working in the community several years ago, I used to go to see a woman to dress her wounds 3 days a week. She was a widow with no children, and had no living relatives or friends left anymore.

She had struggled on her own for years, with no help from anyone but the community nurses.

When she became terminally ill, somehow the Good Sammys found out, and she told me they called around one evening and talked her into leaving her house to them. She was originally going to leave it to the local cat home. She told me she was too sick to care now.

After that, I couldn't go near a Good Sammys charity tin again...

Pericles,

>>"That's a really high horse you are on, StG."<<

My horse rides over your mound.

>>"If you must know - although it is no business of yours - I donate regularly..."<<

I didn't ask. You're right, it isn't ... so why share (rhetorical). And I don't care.

*we are driven by the same motives and needs as those of the our clients*

Yup, every creature needs to make a living, that how nature works.
Only some want to make far more then others, for as little effort
as possible. In that case its only fair for me to question, wether
it should be at my expense.

St George, I agree with Pericles. If the CEO is earning half
a million, they clearly don't need my donation, no matter what
% gets through.

I started to sponsor a child through World Vision eight years ago, and since then I've also sponsored another child. One is in Africa and one in South America. I know World Vision is a big organization and I suppose I went for them because they are well publicised. We receive a financial statement every year and details from both countries of the work done in the communities that we support. We can write to both of the children (and receive letters from them), which we do periodically, and we always send birthday greetings, etc. I suppose I wanted to be able to communicate for my own reasons as it gives the charity a personal context.

I suppose I could be seen as being naive and being taken for a ride...but overall, the experience has been enriching for my family as we follow the progress of the communities.

I've gone for a mob called FilterPure http://www.filterpurefilters.org/

A friend from the US has some first hand knowledge of them which gave me a degree of confidence. $35US and a family has clean water for several years.

There are plenty of other needs in the world but that's one where a not very large amount will make a big difference to some real people.

R0bert

Yabby,

>>"I agree with Pericles."<<

That's great.

Sheesh, they already drive us nuts with calls from Indian call
centres, now they are trying to plug their wares by posting on
OLO.

They're all scam artists all of them. The only ones worth supporting are the ones that will make real changes and not just keep the status quo where it is so they can enrich themselves.

This cause is worth helping and if you don't want to spend money you don't need to, just knowing and spreading the word will help. These are the kinds of programs that have become possible because of the internet. Instead of wasting hours on here writing opinionated bullsh!t that no one really cares about, do something useful, get KonY! And save a child.

http://vimeo.com/37119711

RawMustard,

>>"They're all scam artists all of them".<<

>>"...do something useful, get KonY! And save a child."<<

Much laughs. So, which is it?

Much like organ donation, if you're so anti the idea don't make use of them. Leave it for people who appreciate it. I'm stoked if the SES want to help me if I'm in need. Same with any of them.

If..you continue to believe..and rely
upon what others tell you,
there is little hope..you will ever see..actual truth.

what is noted here..[re/govt finance]
is the a standard/model..for much of big-business

if you can still think,
and if you investigate..the things written here(and attached),

Assuredly we write these things..in the hope that you will investigate them,..and that doing so will bring you closer to that elusive and timeless truth..

your a tax slave
under ursury/bound tight
by a class that makes its own rules

Our democratic governments..continue to support organized criminals under pretence of license,..more commonly "chartered banks"ters.

think of what licence means

It is not..coincidence..that the word "license" derives from "licentious",..meaning..something that is,..or
that..which should otherwise..be illegal,..

until or unless
a proper fee..or tax is paid to.."legitimize" it.

About two thirds..of the world's/population
quietly admits..such fees..as being simply "bribes".

Throughout mankind's thousands of years/of recorded history,
no group of people..have been found more delusional..than those of us that continue to demonstrate..their faith in the banksters' great illusion*

that their credit
advances..made to our governments
created out of...no-cost-to..make
guilt free/subdividing of the monery cake..

to 'create'..free money,
or rather free debt..[with intrest]..
as an obligated value..which must be repaid..by taxation.

This false belief
held by most of us..including our equally duped government administrators,..is the single illusion..that enables our enslavement to those very banksters..via taxation.

Most of us actually believe taxes
go to support..the government,..but in truth..100%
of all direct and indirect taxes..are used by the governments..local, provincial/state and federal..*for one thing and one thing only,


which is to pay back
credit advances..*with interest..to banksters.

ALL..Governments operate..100% on credit,
meaning everything they spend..during a year
comes from a "line of credit",..which is why each year, their entire budgets appear to require repayment..via collection of taxes of one form or another

if it aint so..explain

Our alleged freedom
as well as our alleged/governments..by representation are mere illusions,..perpetrated by the supreme master magicians..of all time

those wonderful wizards
that have ensnared us..with their money-traps.

free credit..no need to repay..till 2013
its a neat scam

but so too..the other..less charitable scam/s

We have been blinded to the forest of our reality,..by trees/fees levies...compulsory super..and any extra tax cake

they can sell lend
lease or licence

by our lust for those wonderfully dead trees
with green ink strategically scattered upon them.
photcopied bank checks..[some call bank notes or bank bills]

since we went broke post ww1
all..credit..is credit of debt

think can you live without credit
well neither can big business..it is all loaded up with debt[to the hilt]..just like govts..to what..bankers

willing to kep lending..to you
till they collect all your income
then collectr on the assets afterr you go bust

well govt is there[globally]
they take our dollar...and play with it
knowing..there isnt enough work that needs doing

[nor anyone with credit to pay for it..[for any of it]
to ever get payed off..in full

no matter what they decide..to sell or tax next
yes even charities

Worse, we have indeed become both addicted
and dependent upon the perpetual supply of "fiction" of credit via fraudulent securitised collateralised income streams... "credit".

We are well and truly hooked on it.
even our pensions are bloated with these
honey traps..[collect todays vaklue dollars
repay in hyper inflated dollars tomorrow

funny how rent asistance
only increases the rent paid..on the same hovel
that govt lends money at intrest..to subsidize the landlords tax exemption[worsens the resultant lies]

LINK ONE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzFsMZd9MOU
The biggest ponzi scheme in history,
as reported from MSNBC - yes even the mainstream media..can't miss this MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR FRAUD !

LINK TWO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQZbOY5Q3ZU&feature=related
15 Trillion Dollar Fraud
Exposed in UK Parliament,..by Lord James of Blackheath:

LINK THREE:
Massive Resignations Have Started:
http://eclinik.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/massive-resignations-have-started-3-0/

LINK FOUR:
http://eclinik.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/1st-global-settlement-completed-obama-et-al-take-it-as-personal-account-the-fed-dole-out-16-trillion-since-barack-obama-sworn-in/

US$16 Trillion being doled out
since Obummer was put into office.

Recently, the WhitewHoarsehousits released this video of Lord James of BlackHeath urging the House of Lords to conduct an investigation into a possible bank heist to the tune of US$ 15 Trillion.

This is a very significant measure as it is now put on public record, right at the very heart of the British Empire, those "wild rumors" being passed around in the alternative media.

LINK FIVE:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82473039/GAO-Federal-Reserve-16-Trillion-Emergency-Bailout-Loans-Audit-Report

GAO Federal Reserve $16 Trillion Emergency Bailout Loans Audit Report
It is our understanding that this amount is separate from that DISCUSSED BY LORD JAMES,

but reading the report
suggests parties involved could be related.

We must collectively THINK.
Think of the way and of the means
by which we can all act together, as brothers and sisters

to bring an end to our enslavement
via this insidious taxation the banksters have us in chains to.

Please start with sharing this information with as many people and friends as you possibly can. The hope of our mutual freedom depends upon the faithful actions of each of us.

Where there is faith there is hope, for faith is the substance of things hoped for. And hope does not disappoint, because hope seeks for truth, and it is our love for that truth alone, that shall make us free.

We hope you enjoy
a most wonderfully blessed day!

and not just the next war
to loosen govts willingness to tax you into an early grave
for their big business capitalists..and their banker chums..

noting twiggy avoids tax
by chosing who gets his tax deduction

we should be entitled to chose
who gets our tax cake...[certainly not bankers]..

nor tax stooges[beurorockrats]

heck
chose which charity
[they got their own 'tax' obligations]

aint it all just too clever

[restore deflated metal values
back into our coin face values]

bail from the bottum up
not top down

let many chose..*who gets
not just the few

Almost Half
of Bailed Banks
Repaid the Government
With Money “From Other Federal Programs”

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=146801

By Matt Stoller, former Senior Policy Advisor to Rep. Alan Grayson and a fellow at the Roosevelt Institute...You can reach him at stoller (at) gmail.com or follow him on Twitter at@matthewstoller

The Government Accountability Office continues its subtle war on the talking point used by Treasury that “TARP made money”. Here’s the GAO, with a report out today.

As of January 31, 2012, 341 institutions had exited CPP, almost half by repaying CPP with funds from other federal programs.

Institutions continue to exit CPP, but the number of institutions missing scheduled dividend or interest payments has increased.

Much of the government-supplied TARP funding (to small banks) was replaced by the Small Business Lending Fund passed in 2010, which Republicans called “TARP 2.0&#8243;.

The larger banks, however, where much of the bank-based credit creation in the economy takes place, didn’t use this program.

Instead, they got an implicit subsidy!
of between $6B and $300B a year..from the widespread belief that the government..*will not let..their bondholders lose money.

The talking point that the Troubled Asset Relief Program made money for the taxpayer is an important structural argument for the Treasury Department and the political elements in the Obama White House. Yves Smith quoted an earlier GAO report on this phenomenon a few months ago.

Although Treasury regularly reports on the cost of TARP programs and has enhanced such reporting over time, GAO’s analysis of Treasury press releases about specific programs indicate that information about estimated lifetime costs and income are included only when programs are expected to result in lifetime income.

Our banking system is still reliant on the government for support. Officials can claim that TARP made money,

but it’s becoming increasingly clear
that this is a way of avoiding..a description
of the actual policy framework.

http://theintelhub.com/2012/03/09/65896/