JULIA GILLARD is understood to have backed away from her promise to introduce a mandatory pre-commitment scheme for using poker machines.
The Prime Minister has told the anti-pokies independent, Andrew Wilkie, she will not support an alternative proposal, backed by the senator Nick Xenophon, for maximum bet limits of $1.

Sources close to Mr Wilkie told the Herald Ms Gillard revealed the backdown in a meeting on Sunday. He is said to be ''stunned'' by her decision and is considering whether to continue to support the government.

Juliar Gillard's word is not worth anything, and keeps her promises only if forced to.

The PM is too strong to be pushed around by an independent at this time.

Whatever the outcome the story was always going to be either "Gillard caves in to Wilkie" or "Gillard caves in to Clubs".

579 and Wobbles,

Actually the story yet again is that Juliar broke yet another promise, simply because keeping her word became inconvenient.

All this hoopla about tackling problem gambling was so much phony spin.

I may be wrong, I some times am.
But I think, true story of substance exist, one that could be used to flog Gillard.
This feeble insult is par for the course.
Seems most conservatives, SM? did not want this reform.
And it seems, to me at least, no one yet knows just what Gillard is thinking.
I throw for consideration on the table this.
Conservatives it has been said, had no intention of passing any such bill.
Independents, some yes some no.
As Labor members,some, did not want it, how did Gillard lie?
Feeble and in truth constructed.
SM let me help, yesterday polls showed Gillard as preferred PM, you highlight that poll EVERY TIME IT IS ABBOTT.
Both leaders carry over 50% of voters belief they are doing a bad job.
Thoughts?
You are Bronwyn Bishop arnt you?

As far as I'm aware the PM and Mr Wilkie are still
in the negotiating stage of their discussions and
nothing as yet has been decided. So what is being
reported is merely speculation and hearsay but of-course
some people will try to make political scoring
out of whatever they can while others will simply
repeat their party's negativity regarding this government.

Dear oh dear - its a new year but the same old
tactics are still the norm for some.

Belly and Lexi,

To be perfectly clear, this is not about Wilkie's stupid policy, it is about the duplicity of Juliar and the labor government, that will promise anything to get into power and happily backflip on solemn promises when convenient.

I believe the only reason we have a carbon tax is to get the greens on board.

Wilkie showing he is just as desperate to cling to power as the dishonest mob he made a deal with. Politics has never been to such a low in this nation even under Gough.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You're making summations about the PM regarding
Wilkie - when nothing concrete has yet been
decided. So on your part - its the same old
tactics of speculation. You have no way
of knowing what either the PM or Wilkie are
discussing because neither is saying anything
as yet to the media.

SM's story is spin Lexi, lets be clear on that . What did the opposition do with its policies at the same time except support club and pokie operators ?.

I saw a lady (former pokie addict ask on television) asking the question, "when people start playing these things at 9.am, how can you say, that this in entertainment ?." She also went on to say that the stimulus provided by the venues themselves creates an "in the zone effect" where rational thinking disappears. She added that pokie addiction does not transpose into other forms of gambling.

Wilkie is on the right track, and Gillard appears complicit now. The Abbott opposition are just an irrelevant deceptive bald faced policy free agitant , leaving a lose, lose, lose, situation for Australians no matter what happens regarding this subject.

If Gillard has the glands, she will advocate the position put forward by Tony Windsor with the $1 bet limit proposal, and start acting like a PM. Couldn't happen soon enough for mine.

Lexi, this back down will happen, either that, or much watering down of the deal.

The writing as on the wall when the slipper was put in to the speaker, you are just so one sided you can't see the Forrest for the trees.

I am happy to see her dump this law as it hurts so many innocent casual gamblers just to fix a very small group, who, before pokies would have found other ways to waste their money.

If you really want to effect gambling, stop the welfare cash,as this amounts to a fair bit of the problem, especially for the pensioners.

The issue at stake is that she did the deal with this guy, which was the difference between more waste and mismanagement, or, a return to the polls.

In short, if she pulls out, she has once again lied!

She was so desperate to hold office, however, once the speaker debacle happened , handing her a small majority, she has done a backflip on Bob Brown and most likely Andrew Willkie.

At the end of the day, she should call an election and let the people decide.

Lexi,

"You have no way of knowing what either the PM or Wilkie are discussing because neither is saying anything as yet to the media." This is not true, there is more than enough coming out to get a fair idea of what is happening.

T2

As for the policy of mandatory pre commitment, the only country to try it was Norway, which found it made little or no difference to the gambling given the vast array of alternatives, such as on line gambling.

So the policy is a dud, and the only reason she gave Wilkie a written promise to implement it was to gain power, and as soon as she no longer needed him she broke her promise.

Julia Gillard is a liar.

I have good news!
For some.
The remoteness from reality, from what is taking place, is on show here.
Debating with Shadow Minister, Bronwyn? is of no worth.
Rechtub and Runner try but are as confused by the issue as any.
Lexi is quite right,even the toilet wall press gives totally different reports 360 degrees of difference about current state of affairs.
Enjoy SM,or is it, truly is it, Bronny.

Belly,

Firing blanks again?

Yet again Belly simply tries to slag me off without contributing anything. What I have said and referred to is available in the press and news, and instead of attempting to contribute anything, Belly's vacuous attack is evidence of a pitiful lack of ammunition or ideas.

IT's hard to comment on something that has no story, I think SM is just sensationalizing as best he can. Too quick of the mark, best get some reasons or plans first. We do not know the story.

Dear Shadow Minister,

For somebody who one would assume to be intelligent
as a qualified engineer which would require logical
thought by the very nature of the profession - it
should be obvious that the current government being
a coalition of various Independents and the Greens
on the issue of gambling reform are obliged to negotiate
with all the members of its minority government to reach
an outcome acceptable to all members concerned.

Therefore the PM will announce to the media the outcome
of that decision when it has been reached and not before.
Only then will it go to Parliament - for the final vote.

Blaming the PM for something that is as yet undetermined
is not in the best interests of the Opposition Party - and
makes them appear yet again irrational. Your contribution
to their desperate baying does no favours to your credibility
either.

Lexi and 579,

If there is no story, then why is every paper running with it?
Why have all Labor MPs suddenly gone from the pre Slipper position where Labor was absolutely committed to the mandatory commitment to refusing to comment on any commitment?
Why has Wilkie's position been wavering after meeting Juliar?

One does not have to be a rocket scientist to recognize that Juliar is putting huge pressure on Wilkie to change his position now that his vote is not essential to retaining power.

But both of you are as usual spouting the Labor party political line where logic is not required only allegiance.

SM I beg to differ based on nothing but your own words, here and in other threads, my words flatter you.
Show me some evidence any at all, Gillard has even made up her mind what she intends.
Then, be brave, given your stated view, *the idea of mandatory pre notice* is stupid.
Think about this.
You are intensely, abusing her, for maybe, holding views not unlike yours.
Sir are you intent on slander EVEN IF THE ACTIONS ARE ONES YOU SUPPORT
What SM is you point?

Dear SM,

You have to look at the various media outlets,
and their coverage of events. The coverage
does vary. And the media as an intelligent man
such as yourself must realise is highly selective
or distorted. News coverage, for example, tends
to feature what will draw in large audiences -
even if this means omitting issues that are more
sober (like facts) but perhaps are more significant
also (like nothing's been decided yet). As for
us quoting the "party line," really? And you of course
are totally objective and wouldn't dream of doing that.
Right.

Did Julia put it in writing to Wilkie or was she in Abbott-Mode?

There is a hole in your bucket dear minister dear Minister.
May also help if you note you carry it upside down as well.
Leaving you up to your knees in your own mud.
I like your targeting me, it is a sign you want to turn away from your words.
IF the ALP ever needs to pillory policy's it agrees with to earn points I will leave it.
In the end good policy's are the only reason to be in government.

Lexi,

The news reports were in the Age and SMH, both supposedly left of center papers. The news on the ABC radio (hardly a right wing organisation) this morning was that Wilkie was withdrawing his support for health rebate cuts in retaliation for Juliar's moves to abandon mandatory pre commitment.

If you are looking for absolute confirmation that something is occurring then you will live most of your life in blissful ignorance.

Belly,

Have you actually anything to contribute to this thread? Or are you just a vacuous heckler?

Rache, I think that is a very weak argument.

The deal is better than 'in writing' it has been aired publicly so the entire country, those who care at least, have been made aware of the deal.

Unfortunately, people who chose a party to follow, as opposed to choosing a parties direction, are often guilty of not seeing the forest for the trees, so as to say.

There are those here who are looking for excuses, while others are in total denial.

The fact if the matter is, that JG gaIned government one way , and one way only, that was by cutting an unworkable deal with one single, self interested minister.

Then, realizing herself that this deal was unworkable, she has sacrificed one of her own, the speaker, just to build her numbers so she can back out of, or water down this unworkable deal.

In other words, she lied to the people in order to hold office.

It is being suggested that any reforms may be delayed until 2016, at the earliest.

Well that's a good thing, as we will have had an election by then, so Andrew,s own electorate can decide whether they agree with his stance.

Personally, I doubt any of these three independents will be re elected.

Rache,

Juliar did put it in writing.

Get the full story before you start mouthing off, or you will put your foot in it again.

As I commented earlier this week if Gillard had any prime ministerial qualities she would offer Wilkie her support on this very important reform instead coming out today and saying he doesn't have enough support.

Her attempts to slither away would be surpassed only by the alternative, Abbott in Gov't. Unfortunately for Australia Abbott is the best thing she's got going for her.

Her dishonesty is only surpassed by his. Her foolishness is however is unsurpassed if she thinks Slipper is more trustworthy than Wilkie. The proverbial blind drovers dog should be able to figure that one out.

The Independents represent the last vestige of democracy in Australia Rehctub. All you want is a country where the range of opinions can be suppressed and for you have a better exploitative capacity over you neighbours, associates, employee's, and others

No informed voter could ever want the things you would want in their Govt Representatives. Just stop touting this crap because it is both concerning and annoying that such extreme viewpoints actually exist among an educated population.

No one surpasses your viewpoints Rehctub, when it comes to self interest.Why don't you tell us about your assets again Rehctub, I need to clear the contents of my stomach.

T2, you,re not alone, as most underachievers say things like that. Also, I was simply putting the record straight with one who loves to hate me.

Now as for the ndependants, do you seriously think they ar donig a good job?

Also, do you seriously think they will be re elected next tie round?

Finally, if you wish to attach my view points, you shoukd at las be a little more specific.

Rechtub can we talk?
You and I clash often, yet I think would enjoy one another's company, say at a football game, Saints Vs Broncos.
Maybe a beer or two then back to our very different views on just about every thing.
HATE?
Is that how you see those that do not agree with you or your views on politics wages workers ?
A tip, mate.
1
Only those in my team/group family are ok, do not trust those others
Is a view likely from an under achiever, IQ is a measurement of brain not how much we weigh or how loud we shout.
2
The person who is always right has not yet been born.
3
Hate?
Blindness mate, you put your comments out there, have no difficulty reviewing mine and others, see your last post, but infer any one who differs with you is driven by hate?

Juliar could easily get the legislation through by bribing Oakeshott or Windsor with more pork barrel projects, however, it is just easier to shaft Wilkie who grabbed a safe labor seat.

I have never agreed with you Shadow Minister.
But while not respecting your thoughts ideas views am concerned for you.
Your posts are becoming even more pointless.
As we age Mate, we should watch the Grumpy old man Gene, it must be fought, every day.
Thought of reading the green left weekly.
Maybe good for a second opinion.

rehctub,

My comment wasn't meant as an argument or an excuse.

I was just trying to point out that this is politics at work and both sides have similar histories.

Every anti-Labor attack has an anti-LNP equivalent if one chooses to look.

I suppose we still have a couple of years of clutching at every possible point-scoring straw but in the end we still have to wait to vote. Howard was seen the same way at the same point in the electoral cycle during his first term. Fortunately he had a much more compliant media (plus 3 Press Secretaries to put out all the potential fires).

The thread, seemingly intended to taint not inform, describes the current state of Australian Politics.
Like a plastic Prawn thrown out to convince fish it is real, it has no substance.
Even on the day it appeared, and still today, nothing can be said to be certain.
No final decision has been reached.
Yet stranger still, the concept, that our authors wishes,may be the end result, that a government may, act as he thinks they should, adds to his concerns.
I have an idea why our current lost nature in politics exists, it is unpalatable for some.
The hung Parliament is giving power to the greens.
NO! not an anti green rant! both sides are concerned that from a high moral tower a party they did not vote for, never wanted, has picked up the crumbs, created by discontent with the majors.
And that independents, mostly from the crusty old dieing Miners party calling its self Nationals, for that reason,stay at arms length from a lost party the left long ago.
Gillard 52% Abbott 51%, those are the numbers of Australians thinking they are doing a bad job.
Hence the likes of this, constructed to miss lead thread.

Rache, it was in fact a signed agreement.

I believe it has been a thorn in her side since the deal was done, however, nothing was mentioned about any backflip until she got the numbers.

Here we have this who are simply reading between the lines, this who are in denial and those who simply won't accept that Gillard can do no wrong.

Ask yourself not whether Tony Abbott is better than Julia Gillard, ask yourself whether Julia Gillard deserves the trust of the Australian people considering the lies and backflips she is famourps for.

As for problem gambling, it has apparently been a problem for twenty odd years, so, rather than bring in legislation now, I think it would be better left for another one year so it can be a major issue at the next election.

It could even be a referendum of soughts, if that is workable.

Either way, let the masses decide.

This just shows that doing desperate deals, simply to retain power is a dangerous game.

If doing deals is a dangerous game, both sides are equal. The libs will not go for pokie reform. The independents decided which side they took. Abbott is now desecrating dead people on a cruise ship, what sort of statesman is he. Julia said legislation concerning pokies will be looked into, all you are worried about is a deal that no one knows about.

579,

Please look up the word desecrate before posting something so idiotic.

Politically correct, but not in australian. You are languishing the bottom of the barrel just like Toni.

*cannt except that Gillard can do no wrong*
What are you on about Rechtub?
That can not be what you think.
Abbott is better than Gillard?
MATE you would be a better leader than any of those two.
Abbott is going to go, this year, Gillard too.
But this spiders web of a thread has you pinned upside down in the web!
The day the numbers are there Bill Shorten leads Labor.
And numbers or not Turnbull does a Howard back from the dead this year.
AND we will be left to wounder why it took both party's so long.

http://www.news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8406156/albanese-defends-govt-over-pacific-highway

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-20/oakeshott-rejects-highway-funds-deal-claim/3784530?section=nsw

579

I read the news, you should try it.

Belly, from the little I have seen of Bill Shorten, I am quite impressed, at least on most things.

As for Malcom, well I have to agree there two.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and these two will contest the next election.

At least we would be the winners, as either one of these are capable of wining an election, as opposed to loading one.

I hope you are right.

If I/WE are not right Rechtub, it will say in fact both party's have no regard for the Australian voters wants.
Rest it is coming, and you can bank on it.
Right now only the complicating factor Kevin Rudd and his supporters stands in the way.
Behind the scenes Shortens followers are active.

Lexi,

Are you prepared to eat crow now?

rectub

"Ask yourself not whether Tony Abbott is better than Julia Gillard, ask yourself whether Julia Gillard deserves the trust of the Australian people considering the lies and backflips she is famous for."

Personally I'm not impressed by either of them but feel that Abbott is just as notorious for backflips and given his own history - certainly not worthy of public trust.

Just telling people what they want to hear is not leading - it's following. I prefer to wait until he actually comes up with anything of his own before I make any judgements.

the perpetual suggesting of others over Abbott is such a juvenile attempt by ALP supporters to cause disunity amongst the ranks of the conservatives.
For the sake of the future of Australia I hope conservatives out-intelligence the left & things will go right again.

Rache, Tony Abbott has one thing on his side and that's his experience under what many believe was our most successful PM.

At the end of the day, we have to ask our selves at what point is enough, enough.

Furthermore, do you and your supporters honestly think TA could be any worse than JG?

As for this government, it is obvious now that JG is beyond her depth, so, labor must either dump her, or call an election and let the people decide who they want as PM.

After all, that is how a democracy ishoukd work, is it not.

Lexi eat no crow, stand firmly in your own shoes your own views even when, like now they are against mine.
Stay able to learn and progress by hearing all in put then changing if you wish your views.
You will eat the best, while Shadow Minister eats the humble pie.
Quick word for Indy.you are in over your head Turnbull will not take over due to ALP actions.
Your inability to see Abbott as even his own party has opened their eyes to is coming back to haunt you.
SM CONSIDER THE BLOKE
Thread after thread condemning independents
The same condemning the ALP for even considering poker machine reform.
See the terms of Wilkies demand, know I support reforms.
But see this independent,who won conservative preferences to gain his seat.
Wants to blackmail
To get policy's CONSERVATIVES do not want, passed,
Know that, on both sides of the house, not enough votes exist to pass it.
A PM bound by SM laws to not change is a concrete statue of no worth.
Gillard is trying to get laws that will pass SM is trying to untie the knot the has himself in.
A policy he does not want from a man he does not like a PM he cannot be honest if talking about.
SM unaware what the final out come may be,will be lucky to eat the crumbs the crow drops.

rehctub,

What these Labor tragics forget it that amongst Liberals is very popular, mostly because he has been instrumental for showing up Juliar's lying manipulative nature, and Labor's incompetence.

Juliar's name is now Mud and she cannot win the next election as no one will believe any promises she makes.

Dear Shadow Minister,

You asked me, "Are you prepared to eat crow now?"

I'm not sure why you would ask me that. This is a
complex problem - and politics should not enter
into this equation.

Most opinion polls show that the public
supports tighter gaming machine regulations, including
mandatory pre-commitment. Nor are the big clubs
themselves particularly popular, outside a few deep
pockets of support in the outer suburbs of Sydney and
Brisbane.

Of course - the PM's cautiousness gives Tony Abbott and
his supporters yet another opportunity to portray the
Gillard Government as sneaky and untrustworthy, an
opportunity they are seizing with their customary
alacrity. No surprises there.
It's all too easy to characterise the revised
timetable for mandatory pre-commitment as simply another
Gillard backdown, or indeed a double-cross.

However: As articles on the web tell us -

"The devastating social impact of poker machine addiction
is well understood. Experts point out to us that
clamping down on the rights of vulnerable people to
gamble away their life savings and ruin their family's
finances may indeed be a restriction of their liberty.
But it surely is a justifiable restriction."

"Mandatory pre-commitment has already been trailed in South
Australia, in Queensland and in the Canadian province
of Nova Scotia. It may not be a silver-bullet but all the
trials showed a significant number of gamers used the
pre-commitment schemes to monitor and limit their daily
expenditure. The Canadian trials in particular showed a
reduction in total expenditure by gamers after the
introduction of the scheme. No wonder the big clubs are
worried about a similar scheme in Australia."

The PM may be quite correct in being cautious.
She has the most difficult job of any PM has had -
a hung Parliament means you have to negotiate everything.
Politics is the art of compromise, and the PM is playing
it extremely well.

Dear Belly,

Thanks for your concern.
I appreciate it very much.
In all these issues, the choice is between the
broader interests of the nation, and the narrow
self-interest of industries and lobby groups
that stand to lose out because of necessary reforms.
One party tries to achieve something, the other
is only capable of finger-pointing.

The PM could wedge Tony Abbott nicely now by putting
the legislation in front of him and daring him to
vote no.

Lexi,

I'm not sure what clever game Gillard is playing but it sure isn't compromise.

I'm amazed that she can't see that - once Craig Thomson gets the chop - she will need every vote she can find, including Wilkie's. She could have fobbed him off, sweet-talked him (although he's obviously no fool) and put off the evil day. Even if Thomson hangs around, she needs only one of the independents or one of her own party to call it a day, and she's sunk.

And Labor with her, for the next decade or more.

So much could have been achieved, but so much has been squandered. I've always voted Labor, but I wonder will there actually be a Labor Party in ten years ?

Does there deserve to be ?

Lexi no need exist to defend you.
Your posts are thought out and balanced
Unlike the increasing lost nature of SMs.
I learn every day,SHADOW MINISTER is a good teacher.
From him I learn not every comment is believed by the poster.
Not every humorous story about Engineers is unfounded.
Too that if he reads others posts he feels free to not understand them.
Labor tragics, so small must the intellect be, of such a person.
Bound and determined to not see I with over half this country's population dislike,distrust, Gillard, and that his leader is second, to that lost useless lady in the poll for preferred PM.
TEN challenges for him to enter the faults of his side went unanswered, yet CONSTRUCTED junk like this thread is used to heap humus on me you the ALP.
I from SM Education is not measure of IQ honesty understanding.
Sir you have the thinking, debating, talking style, of a concrete statue

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

On the news last night the PM made it quite clear
that having spoken to the Opposition backbenchers
and knowing the opinion of her own backbenchers -
there is no way that Mr Wilkie's reforms could
possibly pass in Parliament. Without the whole
proposal being modified to appeal to the greater
majority - there was no chance of it being accepted
as initially proposed by Mr Wilkie. The PM is trying
her best to at least put something acceptable in place
upon which in future it can be built on. And eventually
hopefully achieve what Mr Wilkie proposed.

It's unfortunate that Mr Wilkie doesn't have the
foresight and the patience that we have hoped for
from him.

We must remember that the PM is working in a minority
government influenced by Independents and the Greens
and is opposed by a very negative Opposition and its
hard-nosed Leader. I believe if Mr Turnbull was the
Party Leader - greater progress in collaborating to
solve this complex problem would be achieved.
But, the current situation is rather grim as it stands -
and the PM can only do the best under the difficult
circumstances.

If Mr Abbott was the PM it is obvious that nothing at all
would be done - certainly nothing to anger the big clubs
that support his Party.

But Rachel, you have already made a judgement, in that TA will be worse than JG.

SM, I doubt you will hear a squeak out of Lexi. Unfortunately, labor can do no wrong in Lexi,s eyes.

I think this move by Julia will have far reaching consequences for either herself, labor, or both.

Lying about the carbon tax was one thing, but going back on her word, when the signed deal was the determining factor in he retaining office is simply not acceptable.

My opinion is that she should do what is best for labor and resign as to dump her after what they did to KRud would be politicL suicide.

So Lexi, if the majority of the people want pre commitment, why then did she not take it to the chamber?

Is she representing he people, or her self interests?

Dear rehctub,

As usual your predictions are wrong.
Typically - you think that your opinion is fact.
Surprise - it isn't!
And guess what - once the electorate realises that
Mr Abbott might be the next PM., the whole paradigm
might change.

BTW: I don't happen to think that Labor can do no
wrong - what I do try to do is - look at things
logically and not just from a blinkered, narrow
point of view. What else is the PM supposed to do other
than try and get some legislation through that will
appeal to the majority when she knows full well that
she won't get support for it as it currently stands.
As I've said earlier - at least she is trying to do
something.
Of course the PM haters are out in force putting out
their usual talking points. They have nothing else to
offer.

If we're not careful we may eventually end up becoming
like the United States - being run by religious fanatics, extreme
nationalists, and ravenous corporations.

Lexi,

I certainly don't hate PM Gillard, but I do think she could have more clearly passed responsibility for browning off Wilkie back onto those who did.

However, to be honest, I thought that, once Jenkins had resigned as Speaker and Slipper took his place, that she might try something like this, thinking she had a larger buffer with a three-seat majority than with one.

That's politics - dirty, opportunistic and sometimes just bloody stupid.

Cheers sweetie,

Joe

Dear Joe (Loudmouth),

I agree - politics is not for the faint-hearted.
Some pollies appear solely interested in playing
political games, boosting their egos,and keeping
their seats of power.

I tend to agree with a poster who made this comment on
on the web:

"If they made the pre-commitment apply only to machines
above $1, I reckon the average punter would see that as
a reasonable compromise, and the PM could force through
a deal that would diffuse the worst of tensions without
making too many enemies."

But you're right the PM is not on a sure thing with her
numbers in Parliament, and all it would take is a
change of heart by one of the Independents who support
her at the moment or for a member of her party to become
sick and have to leave Parliament and she could have a
serious problem.

I guess to remain in politics as a leader -
you need to have a very
strong skin, and possibly be a Labor reprise of
Margaret Thatcher.

Lexi you are in difficult waters.
Rechtub is not so aware of the subject, the very facts of the matter.
You can hit the ball past him a dozen times and he will not know you have served.
Let us look [this answers a respected poster loudmouth too]
Gillard, I and most know, and knew, as time past, it became clear and not unusual, Abbott would not pass the bill, other independents too would not all vote for it.
TWO sides existed here Wilkie DEMANDED IT PASS nothing less.
AS IT could not he like Gillard broke THAT DEAL.
I always supported the reform, look at my thread note the detractors, think it was nanny state.
I still think Gillard best serves the ALP by leaving it.
Or better still being a Minister.
BUT TO SAY SHE LIED!
Our threads author, wanting no reform, sides with the Greens?
This country will be a better place after no independents are in any house and the greens forever return to the rump they should be.
Of most interest to me? Abbott if in power would have totally different policy's the man is an invention of his own self interest not a politician.
loudmouth in fact Labor has a 2 seat majority one when Wilkie votes with Abbott.

Lexi,

Your first comment was that this was a non issue, as the PM had pledged to pass the legislation and as yet had said nothing to the contrary.

If Wilkie's vote was essential Juliar would have moved heaven and earth to pass the legislation, now the clubs are having a punishing effect on the popularity of Labor MPs, and she would love to have an excuse to scrap the poisonous and useless legislation.

She has offered Oakeshott and Windsor no incentive to pass the legislation, and can use it as a feeble excuse to break her promise.

Dear Lexi, it was not I who had my head in the sand, as I, unlike yourself could read between the lines.

Furthermore, if Julia knew the legislation was unworkable, then she should be even more ashamed for doing the deal in the first place. Typical of a person in desperation mode.

Further evidence that she lied, a she obviously had no intention to go with the deal, all she needed was the numbers, and I would suggest she had a huge part in that as well.

I have been accssed of being I'll informed many times, however, I predicted KRudd would get the chop and Julia would become PM.

I predicted that the new IR laws would reap havoc in the hospitality sector.

I also stated that the pre commitment laws would be seen as unworkable.

Yes, very I'll informed!

One more time.
The effort to prove Gillard lied on this issue best describes the current state of debate in Australian Politics.
We are letting our selves be flim flamed, by both sides and a media no longer interested in other than stirring one of our every day functions by products

First see Wilkes conditions, *he DEMANDED it pass both houses by may.
I ask this did ANY CHANCE EVER EXIST* it could pass?
And was it *GILLARD who stopped it or both sides afraid of clubs and pubs*

Abbott is feeding the chooks, us, so we get in line to eat CONSTRUCTED miss information.
I see a benefit here for the Australian Labor Party and Conservatives.
While the whole issue is a fallacy , while Gillard has not done wrong.
It is clear she cannot win back this country, even if handing out Gold bars.
Her replacement leads to Abbott's and we can return to politics not mud throwing.
I charge Conservatives with American style muck raking.
And this country is ill served by them doing that, to hide their lack of alternative policy's.
Sir Robert Menzies must be rolling in his grave, as Abbott turns his construction in to an oil rag.

From a Labor MP

While the Prime Minister claimed she ditched preset betting limits because of a lack of crossbench support:

"Mr Thomson insisted her backdown was a "big win" for NSW caucus members who had lobbied for change for the past year."

Also:

The sources claimed Mr Rudd had also been telling MPs late last year he could get the support of Peter Slipper in order to secure another seat in the parliament - before Mr Slipper defected from the opposition to become speaker.

"He was saying for a long time 'I can get Slipper and I can get Katter and we can f ... off all this mandatory pre-commitment stuff," a senior NSW Labor source said. But the backdown and withdrawal of support from Mr Wilkie has left 34,000 people who voted for Mr Slipper as a Liberal National Party MP holding up a Labor government.

This is clear proof that the mandatory pre commitment was hurting labor, and labor ditched it the first chance they could. The "hung parliament excuse" was just another lie by the Queen of lies.

Belly, you remain defiant that the PM has not lied.

So why did she sign that deal, knowing full well it would not be popular?

Secondly, as it appears the majority out there want something done, why did she not take it to the vote?

Finally, she didn't come to this conclusion over night.

So, why didn't she hold talks with Wilki before the slipper issue?

Had she indicated her intensions earlier, the clubs would have saved millions, millions that would have been much better spent on community projects, which is what clubs are all about.

At the end of the day, if she did not lie, then she certainly withheld her intensions until she had the numbers, and most of us saw righ through what she was doning, but one needs to take the blinkers off the see things like that. A tallent that many here lack.

This from a recent link on the web:

"It's not hard to discern the cause of the Government's
new-found caution when it comes to mandatory pre-commitment.
The clubs lobby and it allies in the media and in the
New South Wales Rugby League have waged a savage and
dishonest campaign against the changes. Not only has that
campaign been highly cycnical. It has been highly personal
with Labor MPs such as Mike Kelly in Eden-Monaro personally
singled out in nasty attacks."

As Joe (Loudmouth) pointed out earlier - the current state of
our politics is indeed dirty. Vested interests playing a
major role. What gets to me is that some posters on this thread
keep on baying and finger-pointing with the usual - "she lied,"
statements and accusations. What a load of nonsense. Forgetting
their own "Core and Non-Core promises."

How about
looking at the up-side of what the final outcome of all
this will be? How about looking at the best possible results
that will be achieved under the current circumstances?

I can't for the life of me understand the ignorant sods who
have nothing positive to offer - except constant negativity
and then they insist that they will still win the next election.
Anyone with half a brain would not vote for a party whose
only mantra is negativity - and nothing else on offer.

Rechtub, with all my heart you are in all probability a good bloke.
But TOO firmly I think you have no understanding not a drop, of this subject.
Wilkie INDEPENDENT much despised one, DEMANDED understand no wriggle room DEMANDED.
His bill PASS BOTH HOUSES by May.
Conservatives said no.
Independents SOME SAID NO,
SOME ALP SAID NO
SM said no clubs and pubs said no.
NO CHANCE,NOT EVER IT WAS GOING TO PASS ANY HOUSE UPPER OR LOWER.
Gillard, unloved and unliked, but not STUPID took the path of some reform is better than nothing.
She, is trying, will not get it, to get Conservatives to support SOME REFORM.
Rechtub you by being so unaware of this and many issues stand in the way of a reform this country needs.
West Australia has no poker machines, in all honest we should have no machines.
But we do and they destroy lives.
What would you do? would you put the legislation knowing it would be defeated try to get some improvement.
Mate think about your posts referring to me as fixed opinion holder , it is your bath room mirror that points to that bloke.

A conversation/Debate/Discussion/even a sit down problem solving one, should be free of preconceived biases.
Free of my mob or nothing views.
Sorry rude it may be, but this thread is a feeding station.
By starting it, naming it, before the decisions had been made.
By finding new ways to denigrate Labor /Gillard, even over looking expressed views about the independents as a whole and Wilkie.
Failing to see the expressed views of our author to all that, and the very idea of poker machine reform.
We are feeding anti Labor rants, not looking for results.
And in all truth,we all, are neglecting this .
Every day poker machines drive crime hungry kids broken relation ships.
Conservatives never wanted reform but gloat in others agreeing,with their views.
We feed that, if it is not a debate,a conversation it looks much like PROPAGANDA to me unrelated to honest opinion.
Had ANY CHANCE existed of passing this bill I would call Gillard gutless.
But she, at least, is head and shoulder above Abbott in this matter.
My view of a troll may differ but if not what have some contributions here been?

Dear Belly,

As I wrote in a previous post -

"In all these issues, the choice is between the broader
interests of the nation, and the narrow self-interest
of industries and lobby groups that stand to lose
out because of the necessary reforms. The PM is trying
to do the best she can under very difficult circumstances,
while the Opposition does what it has to do to represent
the narrow self-interest of the industries and lobby groups
that support its party. They will use the usual predictable
weapons that they've been using to date against the current
government - caring little for the actual issues themselves."

I think we are better off with what we have. If tony gets his way he wants shoot people by the boat load. I don't know if that will go down to well. If you don't have the numbers, you have to go about things in a different manner. You must admit, it takes a lot of strength to make that decision. Wilkie will get over his tantrum, and see the light.

Lexi,

Even the Labor MPs in caucus admit that this was a stupid policy from day One, considering that the only comparable trial in Norway was an abject failure. The reaction from the clubs to legislation that would cost billions, reduce revenue, with negligible effect and no compensation is entirely understandable.

That Juliar was so morally vacuous to agree to it in the first place, shows that she places political power first and foremost against the good of Australia.

the choice is between the broader interests of the nation, and the narrow self-interest of labor and Juliar that stand to lose access to the gravy train.

Shadow Minister you actually have taken every side, and invented even more here.
You decry your idea of good policy trys o desperately to mine Gold in a coal seam.
John Howard after he lost the leadership said,*it would be Lazarus raising * for him to try again, he did history shows.
He gave a promise GST was dead, but after public approval at an election implemented it.
Abbott said no to extra superannuation but changed his mind.
Your party signed up to carbon tax then pulled out.
Your mission Sir, and you have chosen to take it, is to make every issue a tool to insult readers without the ability to see you as you are.
No politician of any worth, never changes their mind.
AT, after Tony, your mob will glow, in comparison with the small in intellect and honesty, man he is.

Belly,

You wouldn't know a good policy if it bit you.

The traits of a good policy are:
1 proven to work by conducted trials or implementation overseas,
2 Minimal cost of implementation to those involved and the taxpayer,
3 Minimal repercussions with respect to job losses etc.

lets see how pre commitment fares:
1 No trials done in Aus, and comparable trial in Norway a complete failure.
2 Cost of implementation about $3b to the clubs, and loss of revenue a major hit to state revenues.
3 Many clubs in rural and depressed areas will no longer be viable and will have to close.

So Mandatory pre commitment is a shocking policy all round. All it has going for it is that Labor is seen to be doing something.

Many of Labor's policies suffer from the same defects especially the carbon tax and NBN.

On top of it Juliar promised to implement it. Another lie.

Dear SM,

I'll repeat things for you - because it
seems that you don't read anything that disagrees
with you and your Party's spin and rhetoric.
However, the facts are as follows:

1) Mandatory pre-commitment has already been trailed
in South Australia, in Queensland and in the
Canadian province of Nova Scotia. The evidence has
been reviewed by the Productivity Co0mmission.

2) Mandatory pre-commitment is no silver bullet but all
the trials showed a SIGNIFICANT NUMBER of gamers used the
pre-commitment schemes to monitor and LIMIT their daily
expenditure.

3) The Canadian trials in particular, showed a REDUCTION
in total expenditure by gamers after the introduction of
the scheme.

4) No wonder the big clubs are worried about a similar
scheme in Australia. Which in turn means that you and
your Party is going to do everything it can to make sure
it doesn't succeed. Good Luck with that.

Cheers.

Belly, your post says it all, it was a dud policy from day one, yet, knowing this, she took it on board for one reason only, to hold on to office.

SHE LIED,

Now as for the pokie, I hate them.

I would be quite happy t see them outlawed all together.

Life before pokies, in QLD, saw ladies with cake stands in most streets, raising money for well deserved causes.

Loose coin today goes to the pokies in mos cases, not the ladies a the cake stand, or the guide dog on the counter.

If you want to slow them, take away the bells and whistles, make them a coin slot in the wall, where one inserts thei coin, then gets a message that says either, lost or won.

The very fact tha clubs and pubs are so reliant on them is evidence enough to suggest they are evil.

However, this thread is not about the good or bad side of the pokies, it's about Julia Gillard and the fact that she simply can not be trusted, as her word is worthless.

Now considering she holds the highest position available, this is a genuine worry.

Lexi,

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/95708/25-appendixc.pdf

Actually read it and then try and tell me that it was a success. All the trials were voluntary, and the take up was less than 1% in Queensland. The results were for punters that wanted to try it, and hardly representative, and even then didn't stop anyone that really wanted to gamble. The impact on the casinos was also out of proportion.

The only trial that was relatively wide spread and closest to what Wilkie was proposing, and made no difference to problem gambling.

Good morning Rechtub, your self confidence,in opinions is miss placed.
Under standing lost in a wilderness of your own making
My regards.
Andrew Wilkie, lets look at him.
Independent, former Greens candidate.
Former public servant who took John Howard on.
He finished third in the seat of Dennison[in Tasmania Rechtub]
Labor and Liberal preferences put him in the seat.
*few truly understand our preferential voting system, even less wanted him elected from third*
He, Brant, the Greens single lower house seat holder, Melbourne Port is it?, in Victoria Rechtub.
Elected on, yes CONSERVATIVE preferences.
Katter, Windsor, and Oakshot.
Talked to both leaders, IF ONLY! Abbott had won!
We would be talking about his changing policy's to suit changing events.
We have seen how very cuddles om Rechtub Shadow Minister and other find independents.
WILKIE? nice clean bloke, NOT! demanded yes demanded his way or no way.
THE BILL PASS BY MAY, it never could, after trying Gillard did you know, NO LEADER OF ANY PARTY COULD GET IT PAST ANY HOUSE.
The news this morning, remember Abbott said he would then would not now will turn the refugees around at sea.
YOU DO KNOW, we all do it can not take place? Indonesia and the world is stunned a western leader is threatening to MURDER REFUGEES.

Belly, you are simply digging yourself an even deeper hole mate.

Why not simply just admit that she is a lier and, that the only reason she did the dodgy deal was in utter desperation to hold on to office.

The people dropped her like a school bag, some 85 seats back to 72 odd, is an utter flogging, yet, unwilling to face reality, she did the dodgy deal and has done nothing but caused more pain and wasted more billions, all in her quest to be the first madam PM.

Now as for your diversion, typical of one who is loosing an argument , these three ind are a disgrace as they are sitting back allowing this debacle of a government to run riot over our nations future.

At least now Wilki has withdrawn, or will he, it's now up to the others to do the honorable thing and take this nation to the polls.

I wouldn't waste my vote on any of them, as they, like many pollies, are out of touch with the real world, evidence being in their support for the worlds largest carbon tax.

So back to the topic belly, why did she do the unworkable deal if not to deceive the people?

Care to answer that without trying to insult my intelligence or my knowledge this time!

Does anyone else think Julia knew this was coming back in December when they did the deal with Slipper. I can't stand Gillard but I will give her credit for being strategic. Liars need to be cunning. calculating and manipulative to succeed.

Just on another quick note... has Julia had a serious makeover, she looked 10 years younger on the news lat night.

Dear SM,

You are grabbing at straws. I've made it quite clear
in my previous post that mandatory pre-commitment
is no silver bullet. However, the Canadian trials,
in particular, showed a reduction in total expenditure
by gamers after the introduction of the scheme.

The current deal that's on the table is
a delayed introduction to mandatory pre-commitment
slipping out to 2016, and only after a "full trial,"
of the measures in a sample jurisdiction like the ACT.

The PM is doing the best she can under difficult circumstances
for gambling reform. You may not like what she does -
but if it helps problem gamblers - just a little - she
would have achieved much more than you or the party you support
has been able to do. Doing nothing is not an alternative.

Rechtub I truly
Honestly
Think she did not lie.
You make it extremely hard to be civil, in saying ,every time I am being deceived or trying to deceive you.
However IF you think she lied, IF you can ignore the back flips of Abbott ,Howard, and many others.
Then I rest easy, in the privacy of the voting booth you are likely, by mistake, to vote LABOR.

Dear rehctub,

All political statements whether by Government or the
Opposition, must be worded so that the opposite
meaning can be extracted from them. Therefore the
hidden agenda of such a simple statement as -
"we shall abolish poverty" reads as follows:
"We shall abolish poverty sometime in the future, subject
to the state of the economy, if the Senate lets us, if
we haven't got more important things to do, if it suits the
international bankers and if there is no more important
measure necessary to win the next election."

That's politics old chap.

Lexi,

"mandatory pre-commitment is no silver bullet." is the understatement of the century.

" the Canadian trials, in particular, showed a reduction in total expenditure by gamers after the introduction of the scheme." simply shows that it has some effect, but not why, or by how much compared to the investment and damage to the entertainment industry.

The trial involved volunteers and also demonstrated that those that wanted too also managed to bypass the limits by swapping cards, etc. It also discouraged non problem gamblers from using the machines.

The trial in Norway showed that gamblers also shifted their betting to online systems with a 2% increase in problem gambling overall.

There is no justification for this policy, and Juliar lied first to Australia, then to Wilkie.

Dear SM,

There's a certain man
With a one-eyed view
Who persists in proclaiming
the Government's askew

He writes on a Forum
For all to see
But his message contains
only NE - GA - TIV - ITY.

Which is becoming tedious.
I'll leave you to it.

Lexi,

Back to school?

Dear SM,

No dear chap.
No need.

Some of us went on to a
tertiary education and beyond.

cont'd ...

Dear SM,

A Liberal Party member found a magic genie's lamp
and rubbed it. The Genie said - "I will grant you one wish."
The Liberal said, "I wish I was smarter." So the genie made
him smarter. The next day he joined the Labor Party.

Try finding the magic genie's lamp.

Why is it always SM that drags slime into the discussion. Lets hear something about abbott's gun boat pledge. That will make world news. Trawling over the same subject over and over, that is all you get out of the SM.

Quite true Lexi/579 why then do we feed him.
We know, he knows it is rubbish, Rechtub just follows.
Abbott promises to drown refugees and not a word?

Lexi,

Why should I look for the lamp, it obviously backfired!

Your Second childhood has arrived.

579

Try starting your own thread.

Dear SM,

Ah, the innocence of childhood.
It's great!

Much better than being the epitome of a
decaying political system.

I'm glad to see that you're not letting
your political views get in the way of
your education. Well done.

"He ate and drank the precious words,
His spirit grew robust,
He knew no more that he was poor,
Or that his frame was dust.
He danced along the dingy ways,
And this bequest of wings
Was but a book.
What liberty
A loosened spirit brings!"
(Emily Dickinson).

You should really dear Shadow Minister allow yourself
to be transformed sometimes - in genuine knowledge,
perception and understanding of the world, of others and
of yourself the many dimensions of being human.

Lexi,

The point of this thread is that Juliar Gillard deliberately double crossed Wilkie.Juliar promised Wilkie what ever was required to get his support and at the first opportunity dumped her promise.

This does not require a Phd to determine, but is probably beyond a fine arts degree.

As for your flights of fantasy in your previous posts, I am sure you will find other intellectual wannabes amongst your Labor "special" friends that will indulge you.

How the he'll can ANYONE hold high regards for this government.

They came to power, with billions in the bank, then went on a self induced WASTE FEST, costing billions, even lives, yet they still can do no wrong in the eyes of their labor puppets.

They are a disgrace and you should be ashamed of yourself for offering your continued, unconditional support.

Being brain washed is a very dangerous position to be in, especially when what this government needs is strong leadership, regardless of who it is.

Turning back the boat.

Needs another thread, however, who said TA was going to shoot people!

Dear SM,

I have several degrees - none are in fine arts.

As for my so called "flights of fantasy," no
apologies there. They came out of the
desperation of being roped in to deal with your
continued ad nauseum barrage of the PM.
You make comments - I respond.

I guess it was silly to expect Clubs Australia to
call off the attack dogs. And to expect you to be
a bit more reasonable was also too much to expect.

All in all, it is a rather depresing beginning to 2012,
especially for those of us who were hoping that some things
might change and that the Opposition would burnish its
rather-threadbare progressive credentials. Ah well,
they obviously want to hasten their already disappointed
base.

Yes I am a robust poster, some times rude.
SM at least we know, has no intention of letting truth intrude on his mission, mud throwing.
Rechtub, do not resort to your usual , hate you junk.
You lack understanding and you lack information to support your silly view If Gillard changes policy's she has lied.
It is also clear, by your question re shooting, your comments are not fueled by knowing about current affairs/news
Tony Abbott, is on record saying he will have a phone,and tell the Navy what ships to turn around.
He is [not unusual for him] on record saying he will no longer do that.
He now, has returned to his first stand,SAYING HE WILL TURN THE BOATS AROUND AT SEA.
Navy personnel more used to saving life may end it, from women and children.
Consider this,informed and fixed Conservatives understand, this issue , Abbott's intransigence on it, is the most likely one.
That will take the leadership away from our Tony and end his life in politics, such is the damage to his persona within the party he could not stay longer than a year.
Rechtub! think with me, you rant and rave in print at those who differ.
Just maybe yourself confidence has put you in over your head.

Belly, why do you continue to turn this around and continually suggest that I have no idea what went down.

Julia said, there will be no carbon tax in ANY GOVERNMENT I LEAD.

She is the leader of this government and, she has lied to the people.

She SIGNED A DEAL with Mr Wilki, a deal that gave her the minority support to retain office.

She agreed with the terms of the agreement.G

She reneged on the deal.

Now if that was not a lie, then p,ease explain what it was.

The boats.
Some 300 people in the last four years of Howard.

14,000 and counting from labor.

Why did they change a system that was working.

Remember, if it ain't broken, don't fix it!

I say again, how can anyone support this government.

Lexi,

Your mindless defense of Juliar's indefensible actions in the face of all the evidence is tedious and smacks of almost religious single mindedness.

Belly,

If someone makes a promise and breaks it she is a liar.
Carbon tax, Gillard is a deliberate liar,
Pokies tax, Gillard is a deliberate liar.

There is the simple truth you have been avoiding.

Dear SM,

Shame on you. It does not seem to matter to you that
the Coalition does not support poker machine reform.
What seems to matter to you and the Party you so
mindlessly support - is that the issue can be used as a
bludgeon with which to renew the attack on the
PM's character. How hypocritical.

I shall not be responding to you any further.

Subject is poker machine reform.
Not carbon tax
a Policy requirement of an independent.
Not supported by the coalition.
Or independents.
It, after every effort, was never going to pass.
And clubs pubs also did not want it.
I SM think you are mischief making.
And Rechtub, turning it around?
Your dizziness is self inflicted on this subject.
Last word is not all that important, if it like those it follows just adds to the fertilizer heap

Lexi,

Most of us have the mental horse power to differentiate the different aspects of Juliar's policy farce.

Because a policy sounds good, does not mean it is. The mandatory pre commitment demanded by Wilkie has no proven efficacy, and even the productivity commission recognized this and suggested a trial period to determine what worked and what the consequences are.

To rush in with Wilkie's thought bubble is wildly irresponsible. And Juliar's first corrupt act was to agree to this against the interest of the Australian public to achieve the office of PM.

Juliar's second despicable act was to tear up her promise to Wilkie and then to lie about why.

I am glad Juliar scrapped the mandatory pre commitment, but to suggest that because my ends were achieved, that I cannot criticize the means is hypocritical of you.

If you wish to go off in a school girl huff that is entirely up to you.

So Belly, why then did she do the deal in the first place?

Also, what has happened to defend her backflip since she SIGNED the deal?

Do you honestly think she did not KNOWINGLY deceive the voters?

Now, do you care to answer these question, or, do you simply intend to keep avoiding the issues, or, will you go off with Lexi, take your bat and ball and run.

Rechtub, if I appear sarcastic it is not by intent.
Time after time in this thread I both answered and rebutted you.
Lexi did not retreat, I too should not feed you two.
One has no intention of seeking truth and the other no way of understanding it.

Which is you and which is Lexi?

Here is some more Gillard duplicity, the proposed Canberra pokies trial is a farce to inject money into ALP owned clubs and produce dubious results:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/a-pokies-trial-in-the-act-is-bordering-on-the-futile-20120124-1qfn8.html

"There are two good reasons why you wouldn't want to rely on the results of Julia Gillard's much-ballyhooed poker machine trial in the Australian Capital Territory: geography and history. Politicians applauding the mandatory pre-commitment pokies trial in Canberra don't have much knowledge of either, it seems. Alternatively, they do, and they're enjoying a little joke at the expense of pesky independent Andrew Wilkie, figuring Canberra's reliable Labor-voting populace will go along with just about anything.

Whatever it is, they're just about guaranteeing they'll reap suspect results from their one-year trial, which will cost a cool $37 million, almost all of it to go directly into the pockets of Canberra's numerous pokie clubs, the biggest of which are owned by the Labor Party and the powerful Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union.

Prohibition, in short, didn't work because you needed only to cross a border just down the road to drown your thirst, even if the road was hardly better than a goat track. The Gillard government says the poker machine trial will include a study of how much pokie revenue ''leakage'' might occur across the border, but you wouldn't want to hold your breath expecting reliable findings. Who is going to provide the information - the NSW clubs, who hate what the Gillard trial represents, desperate gamblers themselves, who couldn't care less, or public servants, who would have to take a guess?"

Just now Shadow Minister I am in the bad books with Lexi, we disagree on some issues.
My comments, unlike your own,are always what I truly think, even if wrong.
Gillard,as you know, is in my view a waste of the air she breaths.
A quite bright woman, but unfortunate not wise in her actions,and I can not be sure she is left right or center.
She has ambitions that are beyond her ability's.
So all in all my party, until they stop making fools of them selves, and this country,and Labor voters and remove her.
Are just as bad as your team, following Tony the mad Monk Abbott, a man if Gillard was not his opponent, would have trouble getting in your Cabernet room to clean it.
No understanding and balanced commentator,would bind ANY LEADER to trying to pass a policy put forward by some one he/she does not like and policy he does not want and use it to flog an opponent.
For doing just what his party would do.
If you want some one to insult,for having a view other than yours go a head.

Belly,

I understand your frustration. Your PM is being out manoeuvred at every turn. While Labor, Get Up etc have been gunning for Abbott, believing that if they can portray Abbott as a bad person and unelectable, Abbott has not allowed himself to be sucked in. Instead focussing on every policy and move of Labor's and focussing on their mistakes.

For example, when Abbott brought down Rudd, he never tried to claim credit, rather condemning the faceless labor men and the duplicitous Juliar Gillard. The carbon tax focus was on the lie by Juliar, and the loss of Jobs. The result is that while many do not approve of Abbott, he has made Labor unelectable.

The hope that Labor has that Abbott will be ditched is completely wrong, as Abbott is recognised for turning the fortunes of the coalition around and trashing the labor brand. Turnbull is very popular except in the coalition, and has no where near enough support to take over.

Unless Labor can pull off something spectacular, they will lose the next election and Abbott will be PM.

The focus for the next few weeks I am beginning to believe will be on Thomson and the fair work tribunal, and linking Juliar both with Thomson and influencing the delays in the tribunal that she helped set up.

2012 has started off very badly for Juliar, and is about to get worse.

Well it did!
Todays little riot, blamed on Abbott, but scaring the be jasus! out of Gillard!
Note the contents of this post SM.
See I agree with Abbott, time for what has become an urban slum to go.
And too that the rioters are not less guilty that the half wits who smash things in any protest.
I am however unhappy that our Prime Minister, who ever it is, has to face this, beggar the PC and bleeding hearts crime is crime.
NOW as you know, you are, always have been always will be, TOTALLY UNABLE TO BE SO HONEST about politics!
To those who condemn me, know this, right, wrong, ugly, or not this country's race relations are damaged by this action.

I agree Belly, I think it's about time this mob have to decide whether they want to be Australians, or not.

No half pregnant allowed.

So much for the apology hey!

This morning highlights another side.
The leadership need watching.
Well spoken, fishing to its crowd they are not ordinary protesters.
In this mornings news you can here and see some, foolishly, laughing about it.
I agree with those who say it is not good for these folk and am sure we move back years in my opinion unless better folk take the spotlight from these idiots.
This MUST be considered.
Many Australians wrongly, for years to come, will remember ONLY THIS in matters concerning our first Australians.
Had Unionist been involved it would be ok to say as I do now.
This fringe of half wit trouble makers should spend the next two Australia days, and all those between, in prison.

But they were not the first Australians, and that's the bit tha stinks so much, especially to see them rubbish us publicy while enjoying the fruits of our labour.

Talk about waste!

Rechtub here is why we never agree.
Your post is put together In a way that drives support for some thing we both agree away.
They are the first Australians, well who cares if not,40,000 years is enough to make that claim.
THEM? did you think about that?
Half witted idiots,as usual, took this to its flag burning, act of Children of unwed parents.
Claiming the foolish front woman, to be educated, helped by a bloke who looked out of place saying words not yet invented.
About 20 leftist loony activists and 150 fools took action.
About something Abbott did not say.
But MOST AUSTRALIANS WOULD.
Aboriginal Australia suffered, because as I said early, this will be remembered more than anything.
I would now advise the government NOT TO put the new bill to the vote.
Right or wrong failure to pass it would be a shame.
And as these few idiots are going to continue even I would not vote for it yet.
Every action has an impact I have had a gutful of the perpetrators and consider them my enemy's and enemy's of Aboriginals.

I see that the riot was actually started by Juliar's own press secretary, who sent the information that Abbott had said that the tent embassy should be torn down and where he was.

As shameful as that is SM , unfortunately it does not come as any surprise.

This is a desperate woman, running a desperate party and their do anything approach to haning on to what little control they have.

Simply solution.
CALL AN ELECTION!

We the people deserve the right to accept or reject this minority government, a government that is obviously not working.

Forget the carbon tax, forget the pokie reform, just call an election so the people can get itmright this time, whoever they choose.

SM you and I know that is a construction.
No evidence has been put on what was said.
Poor man true you must try to consider if miss use of truth is worth it.
Rechtub, you are a follower my Friend not a leader not a thinker.
Brief look at my posts on this issue will confirm I am hot as mustard about this.
Prison for many and lets see the criminal records of some.
But too remember it was not every one, just a few half witted criminals.

So Belly, it appears that this has been caused by a deliberate act from within the current government.

I ask you this, is this a government that is in control of this country?

Do you honestly think they deserve the privilege to continue in office under the circumstances of what we have seen in the past twelve months or so?

Now if you say yes to either of these, then you are also In denial my friend.

We deserve the right to vote now.

Belly what construction?

Legally, if someone in your employ does something on your behalf, the assumption is that he has been authorized to do so, and the onus is to prove that he acted outside his authority, with no consent or collaboration.

Even Juliar admits that it came from her inner circle of staff, but says the man acted alone. However, there are already contradictory statements coming out.

What is required is a sworn statement by Hodges to the police as to exactly what was said and who was involved, for which he can be charged with perjury if found to be lying. This will resolve most of the questions, and until then we have only Juliar's word, the same which claims to have full confidence in Craig Thomson.

Until then, this reeks of a cover up.

Cat got your tongue Belly.

You see in the real world, business, the employer is fully responsible for the actions of their staff.

I say again this woman, this government, these independents are simply out of control.

If a company can't function they re elect the board, well, that's what's required here.