i was doing..my favourite thing..[dreaming]
old/people..do a lot of it..apparently

when the bbc went over to sports
[i dont like sports...as a spectator sport]
detest-it in fact

anyhow lets move-on
after-all were all busy here
[and no time for negativity]

besides we have the best blog/here
WHY NOT USE/IT FOR HELPING..ourselves and others?

you know...make this world a better place
or just help..others to find..the best bits..!

so as bob-marly soothed..
my sporting angst..into being mellow
i recalled my dream

i saw a world/where..we busy people shared..the free-stuff
the good-things..of life freely

my first thought was..what took/me...the most time..to learn
and the bible/came to mind...so i thought...maybe a topic/asking xtians..to add the best/KEY..bits..from the bible

but then thought...why not ask the buddists,on a thread..for their best/bits..[and the people of..mahamoud..their best-bits/topic]

i soon realised/why not ask the christian-science/friends
or the lutherans..

heck all manner of belief..
[yes and disbelief/too]

eg..i thought..it would be..great
to have a thumb-nail sketch...
of athism's..main teachings/lessons/benifits

but then thought/..this will..take..{me}..ages
so while making my..wake-up cup of coffee..[bless you lord]

i thought lets just kick-this off with the best-bits...
[essentials of life]...

where those..who put in the hard-yards...
can give us..the essentials..
of their lifes lessons

and i cant wait..to write some-more..on this

HOW ABOUT YOU?

raise the topic..!

put up the..seed-thread?
ask the..easy-questions..

what are the-basic essentials..
[wat-be]
..of life/..faith/..faithlessness/..or whatever?

one under god
Nice thread :)

Balance, Humility and Compassion.

A good start UOG is to view 'The Secret of Oz' by Bill Still. http://secretofoz.com/ and down load this excellent doco that has won two awards this year.

The power of the creation of new money to equal GDP + inflation must be removed from the private banks and be given to our Govts who represent us.New money must be created as a tax credit rather than debt.

a few/will know...im/currently..reading..through/the..mist
and have/posted..a few extracts..of its...interesting bits/..as i go

eg/..[this..topic/about..why god..dont/seem to-answer..our prayer]

was given..to the writer/of

http://www.jhardaker.plus.com/pdf/Through%20the%20Mists.pdf

i add..it because..[in-my/opinion..
knowing..could help..change/things

<<how many difficulties..they place/in-the..way,
even if/God..did determine to do-it/all.

Suppose that..£10,000 is prayed for
to relieve..a local-distress...
how/is-the...money to be/provided?

We have..no/gold here;..it is evident/therefore..
that it must be acquired by an overruling-providence..
in connection with/the..commercial-life..of one/of-the petitioners.

Well,..the Divine/interposition..takes place,
an abandoned scheme..or an..unsuccessful-transaction
is revived upon..improved prospects,..and £10,000..more
than was originally..anticipated..is gained.

What is the result?

In his..commercial-circle..the chosen-agent
is/congratulated..as a..‘lucky dog,’..a..‘remarkably-shrewd/fellow,’..or something/of-the kind;..

the/money is banked,..
the recipient..pats himself..upon the shoulder,...
and when..he happens to/think about..the-famine/fund,..
consults with himself,..and finally decides/to..contribute £20.

It is..very evident/that..both God..and the poverty-stricken..will be robbed by..any system..of answer..in/that direction.

“Now let/me..suggest another.

Suppose our Father..determines the/money..
shall reach the/poor direct,..and for that purpose..
commissions some messenger from this life..to bear the/gold..to the treasurer..in propria-persona;

if,..when asked/for..the name of the donor,..
he was/to speak the truth,..it would not/be-long..before they would/be..ready to repeat the tragedy of/Calvary..for his blasphemy.

So you see..that God is powerless..to intervene,..
and reveal/Himself..to the multitudes,..owing to the erroneous/ideas..which have been fostered..and promulgated..by teachers/whose authority..depends upon the..discontinuance of visible-signs.”

“I am sorry..to say..your argument/is only..too true;..
but seeing..that/this error..is the gradual-accumulation of ages,
how far..are individuals..held responsible?”

“Every circumstance..influencing..an individual,
either one-way..or the other,..is righteously/taken into consideration..in the judgment/of-the mists;

but every man..is held responsible/for the full..
and right use of the intelligence.with..which he is endowed.

When one declares/his belief..in an unchangeable God
who will reward..every man according/to..the deeds done..in the body,
he is expected/to..order his-conduct..according to/that rule,

not/to-say..that faith or belief..is everything
and works/have..no influence..in salvation;

or,..again,..to affirm/that God/did..at one time/communicate
with men by visible and oral signs,..but now..has ceased to/do
so..because He/has completed..His revelations.>>a complete/untruth

Such contradictions..in word..and practice
are not flattering to intelligence,.
.and by no means/serviceable{as defence}..in the..time/of judgment.

Spiritual/manhood..can only be-attained..
by work..which is alike..honouring to God and
beneficial to..your fellow-man,

and that religion/alone..is recognised/that gains
the..commendation..

‘He hath..done/what-he..could.’

[i hoped..that/would-change..some-thing
without appearing/to..preach]

3-days..hard-reading..to find/that..jesus summed/up
with..loive-god..by loving neighbour

any-other...time/saving
hints...out-there?

OUG.Very true, but you cannot leave it all to the scriptures and the whims of our peception of a deity.Practical things must be done.

Jesus did not go into a rage ,whip the money changers and throw them out of the temple without good reason.

By changing certain Acts, Legislation and policies OUG in order to benefit children and fellow Australians facing hardships which we all know, yet need to find ways to make these changes.

you/are..spot-on..[we-are/unique]

but..we..dont/need-to..change legislation...
only..re-clarify..what regulation/means

see/that..we make legislation
but..acts arnt laws

acts..are designed/to..regulate and control-business
and..'person's'..seeking..'advantage'...under an/act

take for egsample..the..so-called..transport-act
its designed..to regulate..the rules/benifits/privledges..of those earning income..from the/transportation..of goods..or people

[as reading..the/act..clarifies]
only those/seeking..licence..to do..transport..[for money]...should-be/subject-to..the act..but ignorance..has placed all/of-us..under it

mainly/because..courts have confused..the meaning-of..the word person..[see a person..is a term/used..under the act]...

a person has/been..ruled to-be
a person/under-the act

the confusion/entered..via the trickery-word..includes
[includes..limites that'included..to that..
specficly..included...in/the act..after the/word..includes

so the act/might say....person includes;..public-servants
[which limits..the affect-of..the act..to public servants]

or it/might..say...
person..includes heavey vehicles/under the-transport/act

which again..limits the..legal/person..
to those..doing transport/under the-act

look/up the word..transport
[it clearly defines..transport/as being
the carrying..of goods/for income...

licence is/a..simular/buzz-word
licence;..is permission to/do-that..other-wise..unlawfull

[well we/have..the inherant right-to..travel..{magna-carta}
travel...isnt transport!

ditto...tax is..on income..[NOT wage]
if/it-was..meant to have tax..on wage..
it would be..called..wage-tax

but bosses..[under the trades/acts..
dont like/paying income-tax/..
so they take..the tax/from...the wages/of the ignorant-workers

[income is..money made..without..value/adding]

its/a..trickery..done via/making-us..fill-in their forms

then swearing..the info/true
[see law..presumes..we will not;apply
[apply means beg][presumes..we will not beg/..for anything/but..an advantage

thus says..as we/are..getting/the advantage
and signed/the form-under..the/act
we must want-to/be..under the act
seeking..some benifit

courts have/ruled..person..includes*..coorperations

[we know..coorperations/from living-beings
..because their/name..is written..in capital-letters]

anytime/you read..what..looks/like your name..[in caps]
they..[presume]..your/a-person.[coorporation]..under their/act

and magistraites..dont/know..the-difference

see person..[corperations..dont/have..full-liability]
cant be..punished[fully/liable]...thus need..insurances...lawyers..etc

but living-beings dont..
unless you/begged to-be/under..some or other-act
and became..a corpse..[COORP-ORATION]

and we all/been tricked...to fall/under..various/acts
like..we begged/for..licence/to marry
begged..for reg/of..live-birth/certification..[under-the/act]

app-lied..and signed..as/true
[put/our..mark..{of-the/beast}
on the application
{beging]declaring..our birth..details/true-correct

[when we..dont know/that..first-hand/...we were/told-it
ie..its...here-say/evidence]

when..they call..our name/..if its..in caps
all/we-need..say is/:..i refuse all benifits

and they/got nuthing

see courts/..like tax...is volentary

only/if..you have...injured any-one..
or signed..a contract..or/fraud..etc

do they-have..any authority..to act..[on a living-being]

trouble..being..no-one/...told-us

[your/not..a;..person...trustee
you/have..;a...person/trust..]

It is no doubt that there are too many stupid and corrupt people in the world, and it seems that many of them get into parliament, and in the US, into Congress. I know that most people blanch with horror when tax is mentioned, and particularly high tax, but this is the only way to prevent hugh obscene incomes being taken. This happens to be why the prices of goods and services are creeping up all the time and making it so hard for the low income earners to make their way through life. What do we say about those people in parliament, in political parties, look at the way the economy has declined over the last 40 years, our country has been in a recession several times, and I suppose it's the treasurer who makes that decision, so why does he have to be such an idiot? He makes no effort to test other systems, even he must know just what he is doing, what is happening to the economy of our country. And yet in parliament, they are forever demanding higher salary and more lucrative perks, I wouldn't call them devoted to Australia, more like the enemies, wouldn't you?

"""The power of the creation of new money to equal GDP + inflation must be removed from the private banks and be given to our Govts who represent us."""

Would that be the same government that promises not to tax your carbon output before an election and then decides all bet are off? Would you really want such a government which is perpetuating the biggest fraud in human times to be creating fake money, Arjay? Be careful what you wish for boy!

I should have included my own thoughts, sorry about that OUG.

One big one that would make a huge difference would be to make CEO's and board members of Corporations fully accountable for their actions and to take away their power to sway governments. In fact I would ban Corporations entirely.

Another would be to make politicians and bureaucrats entirely accountable for their actions. The way it is now, they can get away with murder.

Bring back a truly free market place unshackled from the government sponsored monopoly one we all live by today, give people their freedom back!

Your knowledge and the way you deliver your knowledge is revelational OUG. Its knocked my socks off!

I'll keep my contribution small,

If I could, I would like a (DNA) mutation detection system that can detect a single random nucleotide alteration in a 150 base pair oligonucleotide when mixed with ten million oligos corresponding to the "wild-type".

Such a detection problem exceeds the resolution and sensitivity of mass spectrometry (including LC-MS and MALDI-TOF) and the replication accuracy of known DNA polymerases for convenient amplification. Mundane sequencing and mutation detection are not applicable.

Such a method would permit both detection of cancer in non-symptomatic patients and useful monitoring of residual disease in treated patients. The monitoring of the acute and residual effects of mutagen/carcinogen exposure would be highly beneficial to the assessment of (say) workplace accidents and long-term smokers.

Another immediate clinical application is the monitoring of HIV-positive individuals for the telltale mutation of their endemic viral burden to a new drug-resistant form.

This is in addition the more academic application of assessing all background DNA damage and mutation in both background and stress situations, allowing a better understanding of genetic drift and evolution in the immediate statistical sample.

Such early testing would add a likely 10 years to the life of roughly 30% of all western-lifestyle people and possibly more in command economies that forcibly applied such testing.

That'll do me.

The merely monetary cost, obviously, would be enormous.

Rusty

i can only agree[merv]
but we get the govt...we deserve

[just as we get the docters/medical system...
we earn/by not questioning authority]..more later

raw...mustard makes some good valid points
corperations...[especially multinational..ones...
that are playing their games...beyond..national control mechanisms
need to define...who's authority..they claim to be subject to

[to wit...where they got their regestrations..to incorperate
determines the rules they ARE bound by]

multi/national registration..nessitates obeying multi obligations
binding it to pay..in each juristiction..it claims regestration in

no regestration..specificlly
in any/binding/obligated juristiction..
SHOULD_mean..they cant do business...there

and yes polititions..and business...
should be held fully accountable
[to whom much is given...etc]

if govt isnt obliged..to serve its people[and THEIR estates]
and chose to serve treason..that needs to be accounted for

the free-market must/not..be code
for irresponsable/un-accountable/beyond a-full accounting

rusty..<<I would like a..(DNA)..mutation/detection-system..that/can detect..a single..random/nucleotide-alteration>>dream-on..rusty

see/that would need a mean-type...or an ideal
and were getting close to the germanic obsession/there

if you/dont-meet..their/idea-of..perfect measure...
what do you recomend[termination?]

<<in/a..150 base-pair..oligo-nucleotide..when mixed..with ten million oligos..corresponding/to..the "wild-type".>>there is no wild-type i know-of that has 150..base-pairs

but mixing...ten/million..oligo-nucleotides
sounds like the..mythical*...genesis-soup..

needed..to-make/this..first-life/specualtion..in the defunct/theory of evolution...lol..by accident...that escapes science..actually replication..their theory

..revealing the lie of evolution

<<Such/a..detection-problem..exceeds/the resolution..and sensitivity of mass-spectrometry>>>and any-other destractions..of science methodology...but at last we agree

<<The monitoring/of..the acute and residual-effects..of mutagen/carcinogen..>>>is compounded..by the fact we..all*..got millions..of them..[one/in 200 cellular divisions..is a mutation

[and science cant/sepperate..one from..the other]

either-way..it couldnt evaluate docters/making medical error..ie..their everydat/omnipotant..errors in<<workplace accidents>>>let alone..<<..long-term smokers>>>noting diesal/wood-smoke are the two highest-causes of lung-cancer.

<<HIV>>.was introduced..into people..
via..using..monkey-serum..and live virus..to make polio-vacine

just.like..they made bird/swine-human flue..in their bacteria
medical malfeasance...all round

<<The..monetary cost,..obviously,..would/be..enormous>>>

yes..it WAS..
and still-is.

docters/doing..murder...
and no autopsee..to expose..their complicity

shame/shame/same

one under god: Everything you have posted is true. Do you proposed that we don't sign documents that bind us with conditions? How do you get away with not signing a birth cert? Is that possible in any developed country? How to we change the power and control we have to live with?

Intriguing thought, Rusty Catheter.

>>Such early testing would add a likely 10 years to the life of roughly 30% of all western-lifestyle people and possibly more in command economies that forcibly applied such testing. That'll do me. The merely monetary cost, obviously, would be enormous.<<

Not only that, but you would be contributing substantially to the ongoing overcrowding of our planet.

With even more old people.

Ludwig won't be happy.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4004#99382

"Of course, continuous rapid population growth makes it a whole lot harder to wean ourselves off of our dependency on oil and to reduce emissions, no matter which alternative energy source or combination of sources we might use."

But as far as the question "how would you change the world?" goes, that's pretty powerful stuff.

OUG,

I thought your topic header was cute. My response is genuine.

What I proposed is a perfectly reasonable thing, desirable and perhaps technically feasible. It is certainly what I would change about the world if I could, as it would lead immediately to a feasible blood test for cancer-causing somatic mutations.

I assure you my terminology may be a bit dated but accurately describes some necessary components of all DNA analysis.

Conspiracy theories about HIV are not helpful. Monitoring the virus, and mutant sub-populations of virus within a patient is already useful, just inconvenient. I would change this.

Rusty

OUG I am not sure how to change the world but I know a less corporatised world would be my first in the wish list. Where corporations no longer have the power to dictate to governments and where vested interests tend to favour a small elite.

A world where the environment is valued as essential to human wellbeing including more attention to overpopulation and economic inequity that leads to disenfranchisement and poverty.

I tend to like the idea that Gilbert Holmes approached in one of his articles - a more cooperative system that ensures many essential services are owned by the people and where the profit motive does not impede efficient delivery of services that are assumed by the payment of taxes. This can be had while still valuing and rewarding entrepreneurial endeavour but not at the expense of a greater goal.

Perhaps overall a shift to an emphasis on the 'WE' rather than the 'I' but not so far as to stifle individual creativity or freedoms at the personal level. A shift back to really valuing our children and ensuring they are able to be raised in healthy and happy homes and that the push for 'adult' freedoms does not outweigh the rights and wellbeing of children.

Too many issues to list here but that is some of it in a nutshell.

good/points..pelican

pericules...come-on..you got/some..great-ideas
just simple/ones..will do..or even..complicated
we need..the heavy-hitters in/on..this

[ok i know...people/wont-listen..but we..got-to try]

jinny/quote..<<Do you/propose..that..we don't sign/documents..that bind us..with/conditions?>>

i cant advise..anything..like that/jinny
im/trying..but its..a hard-road

a contract...needs-be..two/parties..signing
if your..the only one required..to sign...
thats where..you/need-to..think-why

see...in begging in writing...[applying]...
we are being bound..into a legal mine-field...

our sig-nature[mark]..is binding..in/this-realm...
and..the/next..[lower-realms]..[if its not..in the contract/specificlly]

<<How do/you..get..away/with..not signing..a birth cert?>>

thats the..neat/trick...we didnt/sign..
our parents..signed..then/we-were..required to confirm..it...when we reached..voting-age

but lets..egsamine..just/what..we signed...as being true
we signed..the details..of our birth..true
but we dont recall..it as true,from our/own..'first-hand'...knowing

thus/legally..its here-say..that we/trust..or were/led..to believe..true

[if the/govt..cant certify..it/true..itself..

how can we?]

<<Is..that possible..in any..developed/country?>>
yes..its a clever...scam...
they claim the/right..to act/..on our-behalf
[via founding-documents..but courts..dont recognise..them
as binding on..themselves...its only..the delusion..they feed-us

fact-is..if they-have..no/contract
no injured/party..
courts have..no authority

see/how..houses are/being..reposessed...via court/order
thats only possable..because we..remain/ignorant..of the law

were you in/court..you could point-out..
they only got..a copy..of your-title
only got a copy...of your contract

and copy...isnt acceptable...as first..hand/proof

but..because no-one/is there..to point-out the absurdity..the judge gives his/order..[recall-how..possesion is 9/10..ths the/law]

then/police..act on..'the-order'
then the bank..has..'mortgaugee..in possesion'

yet still..no..origonal-title..
thus-it..quickly cashes it-in..sells/it..[again]

here/is..another/trick....you signed..a con-tract
a promise..to pay...that;..has value...
in fact..is/the-only..value..that allowed/them..to CREATE..the cash

they/dont..lend..us..anything
its our..blue-ink..promise[mark]....that MAKES,..the/money

even worse..they..on-sold..the blue-ink..con/tract..as..a security
thus the..fed/made the cash...and then/securitised..the blue-ink con-tract...

and got/the cash-back..
then/still-want...more/cash..from us

[because/they onsold,.,.[securitised..all the contract..and origonal title..that/is the reason..it isnt in court..

[its..in/china..or your/others..super..
or who/knows..but..one-thing/is sure..it aint..in court

[except..i noted..the last/time..i had-to sign..
they wanted..two/copies[both origonals].....
and they kept/both

its illegal..but what/ya..going to-do?

lawyers..make/laws
former-lawyers/judge..the court

even appeal..is made/to..lawyer's
and guess what...over/half..your polititions
are..or/were..lawyers

and by..applying..[begging]..to vote
we give/them..power of attourney..over-us[to/act-on...our behalf]

<<How do/we..change the/power
and control..we/have-to..live-with?>>
sadly..you either..dont sign...anything
[refuse..all benefits..and..do-it..all/..yourself]

or just..play their/game

just love/neighbour
love god..[keep..the love]

and soon..we/go-to..the better-place

[this is..after-all..only/satans-realm]

life/is-about...the/journey..
the/path...not..the/destination

its..about/feeling..at/one..
[feeling the..peace-with-in]

about/seeing/doing..thinking..how we-can..we/
make...where-we/are...better..not just...for ourselves..but for all/we meet

to quote..my/current..inspiration
http://www.jhardaker.plus.com/pdf/Through%20the%20Mists.pdf

<<..What shall/we..do/then?”

“I know not.
That is/one..of the problems..to/be solved..in the/higher-light;
for..the present we/have-to..wait.. it/is..enough/for..me to know that..‘God/is..His-own/interpreter,..and He/will/make..it plain.’>>

as/and when..he knows..we..seek-to/know/more
[more/shall-be..given]

<<“When you/think-of..such a..consummation,
do/you..not wish..for the..intervening/stages..
to/hasten-by..that you may..{at last}..obtain it?”

“Yes;..and/yet..no!”..she answered slowly.

“That is..the absolute-ideal..of every/true-soul,which,
in common/with..them,..I am anxious to/reach.

But..at/present..I have not the/capacity
to appreciate..and enjoy it,..

so the/gift..would be..too overpowering,..and would/only crush,..instead/of..elevate..me.

You must remember..that/one..who has/been successfully-operated/on{for blindness}..can only/be..initiated..into the/light..by degrees.

We have/all..been/blind,..and..God’s-light
will/only-come..as we are/able-to..bear it.

He/is..too/wise..to allow/any-possibility..of/disaster.

So the/climax..of anticipation/can-only..be attained
when the/soul..has,..by process/of..natural-growth,
reached..its full-stature,..and that-is..certainly not/yet.

As/for..waiting..-..well..I-am..something/like..a child
who recognises..this inferiority..to a/man,
but..the/consciousness-thereof..by no means..lessens..this present/joy.

The longing/for..autumn's-fruit's..never mars the/brightness
or spoils..the perfume/of..summer showers.

Neither does/my-great..desire to/meet..my Father
face to face..diminish my/pleasure here.

“On the/other-hand,..every step/I take
towards Him..becomes another/messenger..to me,
bearing..some fresh/revelation..of His-love,

every halting-place..becomes another/unfoldment,
and every message..quietly/expands my-soul
into a closer-likeness..of Himself.

I/am happy,..always more happy..
my cup/is-full..to running over.

It is ever/enlarging,..so that/it holds,..and I comprehend..all/the-more.

I am even/now..in heaven,..as far-as..I can understand/it,
from the/fact..that if greater-pleasure..were here,
I could/not..possibly appreciate..it.

Yea,..there is more/now..than I can anyway/understand
my cup runneth over,..but how/much I-know/not.

Therefore I/am..content,
because every power..and capacity..I have is satisfied;

but/there-are..other powers..and possibilities
which..I shall/grow..into..by and by,
then they will/also-be..as fully provided for.

With this/knowledge..I look forward,..like the/boy,
to that..which..lies/before{me}

and like/him,..perhaps..I/build..my castles in-the/air
of what..I shall-then/do;

but..in the/mean-time,..I thank the/Father
for His...wondrous-love..in the past..and present,

and am/content..to/wait...
His future/..revelation.”>>

in his*-time
not/myne..nor thyne

ahh/yes
ahhh-men

all/in..his..good-{god}'s..time

A new commandment I give you. Put God first & love one another changes the world for good, for only God is good. Words got us into the mess. The Truth (words) get us out. For the Truth you know sets you free. Seek the Truth and you will find it.

Ok, oug, you asked for it.

>>pericules...come-on..you got/some..great-ideas
just simple/ones..will do..or even..complicated
we need..the heavy-hitters in/on..this<<

Here's an idea.

The world doesn't need changing.

It is simply the result of 6,873,218,610 (as at 08:48 AEST October 6th 2010) people doing their thing.

It is absolutely impossible to change one thing, without causing a totally unpredictable ripple effect.

This is true locally, as well as globally. Think about the proposal to build a supermarket on the outskirts of a small town. On the one hand you have the possibility of cheaper produce for the local population, thanks to the buying power of a large conglomerate. On the other, you have the loss of local businesses that have perhaps been serving the community for decades.

There is no one answer.

People who would prefer that we should "live in simpler times" make a strong case against everything from globalization to selling coal to the Chinese. Others believe that we have an inalienable right to continue improving our quality of life through technology.

There is no single answer.

Some people hanker after the time when Australia was monocultural, stressing the dangers associated with accepting too much "differentness". Others believe that we have a duty as citizens of the world to share our good fortune with as many others as possible.

There is no right answer.

But we sure could use a great deal less government than we currently have.

"People who would prefer that we should "live in simpler times" make a strong case against everything from globalization to selling coal to the Chinese. Others believe that we have an inalienable right to continue improving our quality of life through technology."

It is interesting that you think the two are mutually exclusive.

"Others believe that we have a duty as citizens of the world to share our good fortune with as many others as possible."

As long as we still have it to give. Australia does not have a finite water supply, most of the land is unforested and more is going under housing. We should be asking also why our brothers and sisters in other parts of the world are not 'blessed' with the same good fortune as others and try to remedy that inequity (if we are talking wish lists).

Trying to paint those who think overpopulation has detrimental effects as unwilling to share is disingenuous and oversimplifies the debate into economic (pro-growth for profit) and racial agendas and totally ignores the environmental impact.

The irony is most in the anti-overpopulation camp believe we in the West will have to abandon blatant consumerism and wealth accumulation goals so that others in the world can live better than they do and thus share the resources around.

I would scrap tax, and scrap welfare, and start all over again.

Throw the whole book away.

When so much of the population are giving 30 odd percent of their income to the governmnet and getting a similar amount back in welfare we have created lunacy.

Think of the billions saved in maintaining all that tax law, employing all those public servants, and administering all that churn. It'd probably enable a GST of 20% and no income tax. All those effective marginal tax rates problems would vanish.

pelican,

That lot sounds grand! But how?

Phase 1- collect underpants...
Phase 2- .......
Phase 3- Profit!

http://vodpod.com/watch/1673075-south-park-underpants-gnomes-1

'Perhaps overall a shift to an emphasis on the 'WE' rather than the 'I' but not so far as to stifle individual creativity or freedoms at the personal level.'

Is that code for the abolishment of 'user pays'? Are you a closet communist?

'A shift back to really valuing our children and ensuring they are able to be raised in healthy and happy homes'

That's easy fixed; Abolish childcare. Many people would be forced to survive on 1 wage, most children would have a stay at home parent, house prices would crash, productivity would dive, and the recession would remind everyone what was important in life. Drugs and Alcohol!

'the push for 'adult' freedoms does not outweigh the rights and wellbeing of children.'
So no Calvin Klein for kids? MTR has really gotten to you.

I think the reverse problem is more an issue these days. Kids these days are the little kings and queens of the family unit, worshipped and served by their adult slaves. This has robbed kids of resilience, imagination and independence.

'Australia does not have a finite water supply'

Too true. The water supply infinite! Every time it rains, we get more water!

'Trying to paint those who think overpopulation has detrimental effects as unwilling to share is disingenuous and oversimplifies the debate into economic (pro-growth for profit) and racial agendas and totally ignores the environmental impact.'

I think I can clear that up. An inner city intellectual who is concerned about population is a greenie, a manual worker in Lindsay who is concerned about population is a racist.

'The irony is most in the anti-overpopulation camp believe we in the West will have to abandon blatant consumerism and wealth accumulation goals so that others in the world can live better than they do and thus share the resources around.'

Not sure I understand this. If we stop buying teles from china, wont that hurt the Chinese factory worker?

I wonder how serious are we, I have been complaining for years, I suppose about 15 years, and found that it does no good. I dare say some of you are in the same boat. Obviously the sane thing is to start our own political party, but it has to be so good that it becomes the government. Just how many of you people would put your efforts into forming a party? And what would your policies be? What would be your main desires, your beliefs, a top notch economy, or what would it be, is it something that all would agree with. List what you want to achieve, and see if everyone agrees, OK. well start now. I am over 80, and my desires would be a bit different, but I would like to see more decency towards our workers and small business, and definitely prevent those extra high obscene salaries and other incomes that are causing the high costs of goods and services. I am not greedy, that would do me.

i see..we have/all seen..that change-isnt easy
yet..the collary..to this/is..that change is a constant

yes..in subdueing one vile/an often worse vile rises from the ashes
but there-in lies the key...[this reality..is the learning-realm

no hardship..well simply speaking
no learning/to resist vile

supreeme-vile..
allows the doing of greater-good

and/while..in these realms..
good/bad..are allowed to freely/interact
this is not-so in the further realm's

and only fools/could decry..that even/science..recognises as possable
[to-wit..other dimentions]..and in these other dimentions..all the discord..is discarded..

[or rather is acorded..its own realm
[of pure vile..as well as pure/good
[to wit..the sorting of..wheat/chaff]

or sheep/from goats..[for each has its own realm/
where those lovers of vile/may do all their vile-in the dark-place..
and those of good/to do their good..to other-good
and appriciate..the unlimeted..enablings..of him/who-is..supreem-cause

but we live/one life..at a time
i feel we have learned our lessons/here

[yet for the sake of the many/..yet to come...
change passes slowly..[till each has had their...life sentance

its a true-ism..one sadly only realises..in old/maturity
yet we also know..the surity..of much more to come

and yet i cant help thinking/why am i yet here
why cant we achieve a fairity

its funny..this is not what i planned..to write
yet here it is..[and i wanted debate/robust exchange of opinion]
little realising we all have got so much truth

if only the youth..could believe the wisdoms
but then..they wouldnt be youth/..wouldnt-be learning/..as we/had to..in our youth-time...bit of our life-times

darn..i stil havnt posted..
that i planned../in posting my reply

thanks for that...lol
it/is as it is...we can only change..that within

Ha ha Houlley. Yes it does rain - how silly of me. Perhaps you should ask does it rain often enough to supply water to the growing population or do we just keep damming rivers to ensure supply.

Have you ever asked why most Chinese cannot afford to buy a television?

Population is not only a local issue it is a global issue.

But at then end of the day human beings are what they are - and often it takes a natural or man-made disaster before we all wake up to our impact on the environment - just a shame grass roots voices don't hold as much sway as the corporates.

pelican,

We are the environment. We are the traffic. We are 'natural'.

Massive tanks for every house pelican. BTW you're the one who said that water supply was not finite, ie infinite.

'Have you ever asked why most Chinese cannot afford to buy a television?'
All I know is a lot less will be able to buy one once we stop buying them and they lose their jobs.

Hey I've got a movement for you. When I was a vagabond, I used to leave any excess possessions in a bag for when I returned to my temporary base so as to travel as light as possible. But when I returned, I would normally have other things to do before retrieving this bag. Weeks would pass, and I would realise that I hadn't missed anything in my bag of stuff. So I would decide never to retrieve it. Had a few ex flat mates wondering if I had died. That was a bonus sometimes.

Same goes with food. If you eat half your meal on these trendy oversized dinner plates, and decide to come back 30 mins later, often you'll find you aren't hungry any more.

So the new movement is called. Doin' it by halves! Or half-arsed. I think that's very Australian.

Another thing people need to re-discover is delayed gratification. It's quite a buzz. I can buy most things I want, but in the last few years I save buying things until christmas, and boy do I enjoy christmas again these last few years! It can be used in sex too, but I've revealed too much already. Go Tantra!

its good/to see..we/can still joke

i/was going to post/this to..the euthinasia-thread...
but cant-be/bothered..tying up my cut/paste/box..anylonger

quote/from
http://www.jhardaker.plus.com/pdf/The%20Life%20Elysian.pdf

<<All..the loved/ones..you..have lost..{for/the-time}
are present/with..the Master.

They follow/Him..wheresoever..He goeth.

If...!..He/come again..to redeem the/promise,..
‘Lo! I am with thee,’..shall/not..they/too..come..with Him?

Would/they..not gladly come?
if/the plan/were..to return

Do you think..their love,..their interest
and/concern..for your welfare..has perished?

Strong..as/you have believed..death to be,
do you think..it is strong/enough..to crush..their old/affection?

I speak to you..as men and women.

Is the/hope..
I would inspire..too-large/..too/good..to/be true?

Thomas once/thought so..
till the risen/living-Jesus..stood/before..him.

Are you/not..as-precious..in the eyes/of..the Father
who is..no respecter/of persons..as/Thomas was?

Is He not..still-able to..answer the/same..incredulous hope,
the staggering/commonsense..love/grace/mercy,..as{much}as-ever?

If death has/once..for all..been/swallowed-up..in life,
is it/not..time the truth..was known,..and the balm of/its divine gospel..freely poured-out..for the healing/of..the brokenhearted?

Mighty minds..wield mighty/forces:

is not..our Christ..travelling/in-the greatness-of His strength>>

ok/there..was more-to/that
but...see he..all-ready come-back...[after 3 days]..

PROVING..the lie/of..judgment-day!
proving..there is no/waiting..in ya grave..till reserection-day!

res-erection..is near immediate..[for most]..ie..those dead of natural causes..[having served their/life-term..many waking-up in the light/love..underr-grace/by gods-mercy

and a few..predicably..awaking in/the dark
[many because..their spiritual-sight..
hasnt adapted..to the new conditions...

but others..because-of..other attatchments..
eg[to the flesh/ego/or love of vile]..

but..in the main..we each/wake-up..in the light..having passed through..the mist/veil

but importantly..we/all..get born-again

and get reborn/again..each time/we progress/spititually..
[up to 3 rebirths..isnt un-usual]

we/often awake..in..the astral-realm..where/we-go..when-dreaming..the..dream-zone]

[this type of rebirth..often notices..the silver-cord...
[in the mist..and blue island..specificlly/fall into/that..realm]

gone-west...reveals..the lower/level..of..that we clasiclly call heaven[light]...

as well as that..we call clasicly/..hell
[rejection/of-the light/..thus dark..twi-light/etc]

of course..to their/inhabitants..both are..as-like..heaven

both meet the needs..[loves/passion/hate/vile/good]...of their many inhabitants..thus its best..to-be carefull...of that/..you chose to love[here]..as/more-shall..be/given

and if..you love..thieving..you dwell/..with-the thieves

or if you love murder..you reside/..with those loving/to murder

[trouble/being..there are those
who love murder/thieving/deciet...etc
..better/than theee..[so guess/who..they pick-on]

anyhow..needless to saty..you soon/get-to realise..
what it feels-like[how you made others feel..[regardless of wether..you made/them feel-good..[or ill]..loved/hated...

KNOW..the certainty..
MORE..SHALL-be GIVEN

that/alone..could change/this..world

merv09,/quote..<<I wonder..how/serious are-we>>.
only very-few..of us/merve,

<<I have/been..complaining for..years,..and found/that-it..does no good>>>the..rule/of..the/squeeky-wheel...only/applies-to..elite-wheels

moastly...yes..we/are..in the same-boat.

re/starting our/own..political party,..been/there..done-that
your first...'helpers''..are there to/make-sure..that dont work

maybe...'get-up'...will/be different
but fact-is..the party...not-serving..its individual-members/equally..as they serve...non-members
is serving..some/elite..adgenda

<<what would/your policies be?>>
less/govt..[till..you/get.-in..then..go/for bigger-govt...lol
l;ike/they-all do

<<main desires>>>service..of those who elected-us..to form govt
to serve/all our rights/needs..equally...[from the bottum-up]
on a needs basis...to cut-tax..taske back the fed-reserve...and get a fair return..from/those getting a free-ride..ie plundering the common-wealth...that rightfully..belongs to-us/all

<<your beliefs>>>only shape/who/how..we serve...

if were/not serving..to make-life..better
we are contributing..to making...life/worse

<<economy>>..user/pays...via user-charges...not acces-fees,

<<something that/all..would agree-with>>
govt..is appointed..to protect...all/the people
the living..not the dead..[corperations]
tax..the dead...not the living

<<List what-you/want to..achieve>>
govt..under-wtriting...[insuring]the common-weakl[common/wealth]
serrvice..to living..and the qualities/lessons/rewards..of living

<<I am over 80>>..im under 60,

<<I would/like to-see..more decency towards our workers>>and/care-givers..<<and small-business,<<,and those..treating their workers...better/equally..as/than/..their shareholder

<<prevent those/extra-high..obscene salaries>>
i would simply...tax..their/wind-fall
and tax..their..transaction..[via tranactions/export..tax]
they sold/their souls..to get..their big-pay-off
they have earned..all they get

<<other incomes>>>like stock-market..proffitering
that dosnt/add-value..only cost...?

yes...algerythmic/traders[high-frequency/traders}..
should be taxed,when placing,..their order
and again..when cancelling..their order

{apparently...they cancell...90..percent..of their trades
only to give..the...impression..of share/movement]

via a 3 second..time-lag
thats criminal

temptation..into herd-trading..
[initiated..by collusion..is criminal]

ie..we/should..be tackeling..the real-cause..[fear]
<<..causing the/high costs..of goods and services>>...

i agree...but..what can we do
expose..the problem...and trust things change

Good points about excessive salaries OUG.

Contrast that with a report in the paper about the working conditions of housemaids in high class hotels - poor pay and failure to pay on overtime. Most of the staff are new immigrants - and we thought the WorkChoices mindset was dead.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/06/3030918.htm?section=justin

Very droll Houlley. Water tanks are a good start but in a drought they don't always last the distance. Mine has thankfully but we are also on mains so we don't depend on it 100%.

Dear Houellie,

Interesting that you should mention the Chinese and their inability to buy a telly.
I've posted elsewhere on this site about this issue in relation to people in Laos that have been relocated away from their former homes on the Mekong River because of a hydro-electric development (constructed by a Thai company to provide 95 percent of the electricity to Thailand)
In their new location, these people have built houses with their compensation money - they now have electricity and T.V., yet they have no access to their farms or the river because they are too far away. The Mekong is an abundant supplier of sustenance to all that live along its banks. Someone once said of the people who depend on this river that , although they are among the world's poorest people, they are the best fed. These people are now coming to terms with having to "buy" food - something they really find difficult to get their heads around.
You pointed out that the people in China depend on their "jobs" to buy tellys....they have obviously been through the same process, uprooted from an environment that was self-supporting and made dependent on industry for their survival (and their tellys)

cant/post..13/hours...grrr..[timming/is everything]

this/should-be...here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11043&page=0

i/hate..reading...[for/me...an illiterate...its truelly hard]

thus//in failing to read...my own posts...errors/have slipped...in

ok...my words/are riddled..with error
[thus..the injunction..to filter..all
any-one...says..or writes..
through your..own/filter...
judging good..[helpfull..from dangerous]

eg..i wrote..<<...'put/them..into coma'>>

which..is the worst/advice..to give...

[as spiritually...this/ties..their soul-body..to the flesh]

heaven/hell..have many....sleeper's.....
these/are/those decieved..into..awaiting/judgment-days/..delusion

as/well as those decieved..into thinking..
dead..to really/..mean...'dead'..

[and/they are..playing/thier-part
yet..not/morte..not/dead..
actually..just sleeping/..feigning/death]

[spiritually/speaking..of course]

these/types...are condeming/..them selves..to the worst/type of hell

[self-imposed oblivion]...this type...must/not*..be allwed..into
self-descriminate..themselves..into..this type-of/hell

killing such/as these..when/via ignorance..when-they/only..deserve a coma...
and regular/awakening..to try-to/correct..their/own delusions
[but..in the end...allowing/respecting-them..their-own..beliefs]

those/who know...of the/after-life...
also should/not be euthanised

except..in the most..extreem/of physical-pain..
in which case./.coma..is better/than...murder

any euthinasia..is wrong

worse..killing people...under the influence..of ignorance..or drugs

[hell/is..full of opium-addicts..completly..unaware..they/are..even dead]

often..suicides..are tied..to their corps

often..those of high ego..[body/'self'..whorship]..
are tied to their..dead corpse

[in many cases till/the body disolves-away...]

thus..any rule/..govt gives/creates...must/lead..to a better.remedy..

must not*/..see corpse-abuse..with the corpse..[body]..binding the soul

like/that of so many/of suicide...drug-induced..'deaths'
and those..so firmly..transfixed,..in their material-being

being cremated..[appears..the most caring resolution]..
to many..of these problems

but with statuted..sampling
/full accountable autopsy...
crime-scene/like..treatment..to void abuses

there is no sound/reasoning..
to try to relieve-pain
only to condem..their soul..to hell

these are..huge-issues..we are daring/to..discuss

and it..is not to/be taken...lightly

i wish..other's..better informed..were speaking..
that they..know/..can prove..to-be true

there is no reason..to prolong..
or induce suffering...even/in ignorance

specialists..and process..must/be speedy..yet fully compasionate

informing/fully..those passing-over...
and..those..who/shall remain..here..[for now]

death..is no..easy..es-cape

yes..its painfull..helping others

but remember..that you..do-to..other
you condem..god..to/endure...as-well

we have all..earned..our reward
cast our..life's-lot..

those decieved..by lies/delusions..it/is their right
to know/truth...that..alone..can set-them/free

but thee...who claim..to/know better...
well prove-it..seek-to/know....now

this is..a matter..of life-eternal
and/or..faux-death...and full accounting

are/you condemming..suffering
helping or hindering

are you blind..or
seek..you to see?

action..achieves
thought/prolongs

be guided/by..those who have thought/long/hard
then support/fully..properly..those..who actually..do..

helping them..to/do..the right
/good/proper/just-thing

what/would jesus..do?
[recall..he said/promised..'ye/shall-do/better']

That's what we call progress Poirot!

It's all very well to talk about a fantasy world where one can dream of being Tom Good of The Good Life, but until the rest of the world of Margos and Jerrys join the party, you might as well be talking to the birds.

In fact, often it's the Margo and Jerrys of the world that allow these romantic dreams (and even the opportunity) of environmental sustainability and a downsized simple life. It's all very well to have chooks in you back yard and trade eggs for panadol, but unless Jerry keeps working at the pharmaceutical company where will you get your panadol?

Your average Chinese man working in a factory will not thank you for deciding for him that he should go back to farming and enjoy his free fish any more than his own governmnet deciding for him that he's better off in his factory.

I read somewhere once that a left winger over 30 is a dreamer and a right winger under 30 has no soul.

It seems the choices in life involve either apathy or captivity. I choose apathy.

jerry stand up
pull back the curtains and let some light in
quit your job
because you hate it and it's wasting you

once upon a time you were running
singing to the ground every morning
once upon a time you were

jerry stand up
am i the only one who's noticed that you've been missing
remember yourself man
remember that you have chance and possibility

once upon a time you were running
singing to the ground every morning

once upon a time you were crazy

jerry
you're not getting any younger
all you need is fresh air
a nice new suit and a walk in the park every day or two
every day in every way

That's what we call "wage slavery", Houellie.

The man who once lived on the Mekong, catching his food and farming his plot - answerable only to his family and community - now has a magic window (telly) and a job in a factory, and money to "buy" his food...Voila!, his independence has vanished in the name of "progress".

Houlley
You assume that a Good Life cannot include factories and scientists that produce panadol as long as the Jerrys of the world don't have to work a 60 hour week to make the panadol because the CEO decides it is cheaper to reduce staff and make the remaining few work harder and longer.

I know you hate the world 'balance' but it really is all about balance - there is no other way to combat the extremities on both sides that might lead one down a different path to totalitarianism.

lets see how it all plays-out
now

im/unsure..about...these..houses
im presuming..they are paid/for..
ie they arnt..required to pay-rent

[that sounds...fair/..but]

they might/soon..need to pay..rates
then..they hook-up..a sewer...running-water
and put that..on-top/of..their rates/service/connection charges

if they dont pay-rates..
[because they got..no fed-reserve franchise..[ie money/credit]

then they loose the title-to/thier...house..[home]
[or start the slow decline/of..selling the family silver

[ok..sterio/tv..wife/children..etc..
in order of preferance]

next/come..those..with cash/money..buy-up..the house
[likely geting govt subsidy..to buy it..or tax egsemptions..on costs]

and soon we have the FORMER/house-owner
either renting..or homeless

and soon..their kids..will need their own/home
they will need a job..and income..[ie earning fed-reserve/paper/plastic..govt deems value..
only available/by working a job...[voters will demand...lol..jobs]

soon the country..needs beg the inf..for more of its own currency
no worries..say the inf..give us your hydro...[by the by..those getting free-power now need to buy it from our new corperation]

its a never ending spiral...i know because it happend to us

next they get the kids credit cards
those frugile/enough to have saved their family home
now need to mortgauge..it to cover the kids credit/bills

[or be regarded as poor parents...next they are old..having spent/thier..and their kids inheritance..die..in poverty

as the elites own it all

if only we/had learned..their rent free-way's
hadnt been decieved/forced..into blind compliances

taught them..how to catch a fish
so they can have..their home..and food too
and the same for their kids...

this is the game
it even has its..own mono-tory..system
own tokens..own rules and the just-us system...

policed..by those..simply trying to do their job..
to keep paying their bills

please recall..the banker allways/wins

banko

My point is pelican that you want balance, and I want balance, but the guy working 60 hours a week doesn't.

'CEO decides '
Really? There are many people trampling over each other to be the CEO who works 70 hours a week, and many people working 70 hours a week yelling pick me pick me, and many people with their own business working those hours. Why, because they want to.

It's called ambition. I don't have it, but more people have it than don't. So you're banging your head against a wall trying to get people to see the light, and anyway maybe it's you that needs to see the light. What makes your preference for balance more valid than the bum or the workaholic?

Poirot,

As Jim Morrison once shouted to his audience, 'You're all a bunch of f8cking slaves!'. This position is easy to take when it's those very slaves that are the reason he doesn't have to be a slave.

Many will give up their independence for security. That you think that it is wrong only shows you have security and want independence. Off to the Mekong you go. Just don't bring your Medicare card.

OUG,

Man I wish I had the time and patience to read more of your stuff..

'just-us system'

So cool!

pelican The Good Life is a TV show with Felicity Kendal. She was ever so cute.

Are people really that ambitions Houlley? I don't think so - are we continually told we have to be ambitious - whatever that means. Ambition can be to live a type of Tom and Barbara existence or to be a CEO.

PS: I am well versed in the Good Life Houlley as my back yard reflects (but yes my hubby and I both earn a wage) minus the goat and pigs. Can't have you dissing Tom and Barbara on a public forum, however, I did have a soft spot for Margot and Jeremy and Tom was not so principled as to refuse to partake in Jerry's hard earned malt. :)

People want more pelican. It's all relative. (Just thought you'd like that one as you love to talk about balance)

I reckon Tom was shafting Margot, and Barbs was having her wicked way with Jerry.

I may have to change my visual picture of you now. You used to be Tanya Plibersek, but now I will only see you as Felicity Kendal.

Dear Houellie,

I obviously wouldn't fit very well into a Mekong setting. My point was that the people who were uprooted fitted there very well - and they were probably reasonably secure in their environment. Their position in respect of food availability and community co-operation was perhaps less precarious than many people experience in the west

I was quite a fan of Tom and Barbara, as well.

Houellebecq/quote..<<Man..I wish..I had the/time..and patience..to read more-of..your stuff..>>i wish..you/would comment..on more/of..it

but i guess/thats not to be
but..never-the/less..
its great..your being/so nice/about-it

we have known...each-ther...long enough
for you to know...im on my third..writing-style

too many times..have i tried..to change..my poor writing
and frankly..if people still cant get it...
well..you know...what they..may/chose..to-do

the dead/give-away...is..they comment..
on a bit near/the end...meaning they at-least...tried
and onkly found..a bit..they could rebut..or refute...later

its sop..[standard-opperating/practice]
as im finding in my appeal[to the qld courts]
[appeal number d1761/10]...where the prostitution..
is unable to rebut/any..of my 244/page appeal...

[talking about..some/of..the points
i have raised on this...and other forums]

never/the-less..i got my hearing date today
so on 22/november..i will be in court..explaining
[in personum..point/by point..till they kick/me out]

so/im..only filling in..some-time..[posting/here]...till then

its/sad..you...like they...chose to not get it
but thats not/my..problem...at-issue..is however poorly/clumsilly..i put-it...the law has been broken..repeatedly..and systematiclly...

it is now a matter of record/
that they ignore..at their own peril

speaking...in a spiritual-way
they who have been given so much
have accorded the least..so little

there are yet several...more appeals..to go in this drama
allready..hrh...has had her notice of proceedings

as have the lower/courts...and the policing..[lol]...services
as a stranger..in these bad/south-lands...on the personal level

i have been much abused...but being of pure/dutch-blood...
plan to finnish...my material-appeals...in the haag/world court
[see the dutch people/you-know..them-what-got....on/foot..on the land..the other on the sea]...in return/for..hosting..the courts
are allowed..to petition..it

and while...there is no punishment-arm
there is..an accounting of/many abuses..being called..to account

that have persistantly/systematicly..treasonously..been suppressed/abused..

and that..my friend...binds their soul..

so no/matter...man/claims..to-not..comprehend..

spirit/most surely..reads..that..wrote large..on/my soul
and theirs

ahhh/men...
glad..to have-been..of service

its..not important..that you accord..it recognition
they most..surely shall...[in this life-time..or the next]

justice/denied...[and all that]

pip/pip...cheers/..and all/that..eh

*Are people really that ambitions Houlley? I don't think so*

I think that Houllie is right on the mark on this one. He is able
to understand others perceptions of the world, not just his own,
which is a rare quality.

Yup Pelican, many are very ambitious, its not just learned, but
goes back to inherited genes, for very good evolutionary reasons.

Think about it. Why are Europeans more inclined to worry about the
future, squirrel away assets etc? Go to Africa, its not an issue.

Yet our European ancestors, who did not squirrel away for the future,
would hardly survive a European winter. It hardly snows in Africa,
its simply not an issue.

In genetic terms, its only an eyeblink. 1000 years at 20 years
per generation, is only 50 grandmothers back. These things still
influence our behaviour.

Its not all inherited, some of it is environment. Note people who
have done it really tough. They know what tough is, unlike our
spoiled society, where everything is laid on a plate. Note those
Vietnamese, or old Italian migrants, working day and night to
get ahead. Its for good reasons. They appreciate what they have
and want security.

You Pelican, try to take the easy way out and simply blame
employers for not proving it on a plate for you. Yet employers
don't have that kind of security from their customers, so why
should they be responsible to provide it for you?

Yabby
You continue to misread and misinterpret much of what I say. I don't expect employers to lay anything on a platter but I expect to be paid fairly for the labour that I provide. Why is labour deemed less valuable to a person than property?

How do you define ambition? I have worked in quite senior roles and the view up there is not always pretty and if it means trading in your ethics I would rather not have it even though I understand that nothing is black and white and sometimes you have to work within a system to change it or to at least have a positive influence but that gets exhausting.

Ambition is fine, aspiring to have a big house or a posh car is fine, but don't do it if it means exploitation.

But Yabby you won't get it - you just want to see the world through your eyes and cannot see that some people want more simplicity or to get back to the earth, or not aspire to extreme wealth. Wealth is not the only measure of ambition. Some people may be motivated to drive positive change or to invent something of use, ambition is not just about money but it can be.

That may not be your cup of tea and if I do it at no cost to you or the taxpayer why is it of concern?

*you just want to see the world through your eyes and cannot see that some people want more simplicity or to get back to the earth, or not aspire to extreme wealth*

Absolutaly I can see that, Pelican. I personally am not even
ambitious. For many people its about security. If you reread
my post, I disputed your claim that some people are not that ambitious,
for they are. It can be winning in sport, whatever.

Reread your own posts and how I responded, it might eventually
twig

Yabby
I merely responded to your statement below:
"You Pelican, try to take the easy way out and simply blame
employers for not providing it on a plate for you. Yet employers
don't have that kind of security from their customers, so why
should they be responsible to provide it for you?"

I have rarely taken the easy way out and certainly have never expected anything on a plate. You seem to be of the view that anyone who values labour is automatically at a disadvantage in this debate. There is never only one side to a situation, the fact is employers tend to hold more power than the workers which is why my comments tend to advocate for the more disadvantaged group if the pendulum has swung too far the other way. There are many entitlements that I believe to be OTT on employers behalf as well such as expecting business to collect taxes via the GST, payment of excessive maternity leave provisions and in some other areas.

Think about what you say and how you word your posts and the accusatory tone adopted generally implying that anyone who holds employers to account is wanting stuff on a plate or the easy way. You want the employer to reap the rewards of their innovation or risk but don't want the employee to be recompensed for the value of their labour.

It works both ways.

I have nothing better to do since the law abides me on how to live my life. Read through the comments.. can't remember most of them because there is too much going on upstairs.

Most contributors spend so much time trying to prove each other wrong. trying to prove that their believes are more 'correct' then the other(s).

One Under God: I personally do not know you. I understand what you say and appreciate your views. As an individual, do you really expect everyone else to listen to your views? We are all just mere humans. Unless you have power, fame, money, how are your views going to make a difference? I wonder why you type funny. I don't have enough time to research you. You mentioned somewhere on this website how you expect to take your case to The Hague. Why are you so special. Well you most probably are, but no one cares... that is reality. You think you can fight the system? You against how many? With what power are you going to fight them with?

The rest: You spend so much time arguing about the system... Yes, it helps to make other realize what is wrong with it, but is it making a difference?

We all want change because where we are heading to does not look very bright. The ones who takes actions against the system, for whatever believe, ends up in trouble. If you try to fight the system, you will not be accepted by society. That is how life works now... Change the things you can, not the things you can't.

even/in heaven...people debate..divergent/vieuw-points

jinny/quote...<<johan: ..I personally do/not know you...I understand/appreciate..your views...As an individual,..do you really expect/everyone-else...to listen/to..your views?>>

its not important/to me/jinny
i was given/oppertuinity..to reveal my vieuws..on qctv[the grey-area,..just tonight...]..
http://31digital.com.au/greyarea/

i did so..because i was asked/to..[in reply/to an email...
as i said at the shows end...its not about me..
but/you...getting to know..the god/..within-you

i/fully-agree<< We are all/just..mere humans>>
but/even the least/of us..is yet gifted...by god[at/a truelly personal/level...our very lives.

<<Unless you/have power,fame,money,..how are/your-views..going to make/a difference?>>we live/in a time...where ideas/have value
where every-words we post...is egsamined..and filed/away

we never know/when...something we said...could/make a difference
or when/if..we may be called to explain[like/tonight]

<<I wonder why/you type..funny.>>
its funny...we did a retake[on the greyarea]
that was cut-out..in the replay...[basiclly..i went to 12/schools..in 11 years/of education[in two countries...in 4 states

im one who slipped through the cracks
taught myself to read[very laboriously...and only had an urge..to learn/to write..5 years-ago

you will/note..how many say..they cant comprehend[even-now]..what im trying to say..but believe/me..this is as clear as i have/been able..to get[so-far]...i only learned/of-vowels..when my kids/were reciting-them/when they learned/them

<<time to research/you..>>would/be wasted...its better to rebut/refute..what i say...many cant/thus they prefer..to say they cant comprehend/me....i dont-get/me...either..[no peer/influences]

<<You mentioned/how..you expect to-take/your case..to The Hague>>...its only a loose-plan...

i figure/there must be a reason...im an out-cast/dutchie...in this land[terra/nulious]...[my/ancestors...called..'new-holland'...the bible calls..the great-south-lands...

this/land..was one-time/called..Van Die MEMS-land
that translates..into...'of the peoples land'..by one translation
land/of god'..by another..

it depends if..its mens...or MENS
as/in...VanDieMENS?-LAND

what more logical/than to go back/to my tribe...
and ask/them..how come they drove-my/parents..
out of the nether-lands..thus making me..an outcast..stranger
in this..empty[nulioyus/land}terra..strange[many/named..land

as my criminal-record/reveals...[all/statuted..criminalisations..
not injury/to any/other's...just dumb/laws..like letting..a plant-grow]

<<no one cares... that..is reality.>>.

hey/tell-me something i havnt heard
many-times/before...lol

<<You think/you-can fight..the system?>>

if i cant/no-one/can...[see i have/been criminalised/jailed..lied-to/decieved..but i have/a tribe..of outcasts..in netherlands..

they just might want-to hear..
a report/from one/they..let get-away

or/not..im past caring...i will likely still be in court
it took..near a year..to get this far

<<Your against how many>>not that many

the..really guilty/vile..are actually very-few

globally/there is only 144,000...that even know the issue..
.possably only 1000/
with any real guilt

<<With what/power..are you/going to fight them-with?>>
just words...
[you may-have noticed..i have a sharp/tounge]

swords=s/words
s=sacred..i try to make every word sacred
saxcred/words=s-words[get it sword]

the pen is mightier..than the s-word?

im hoping/im not what..i think i might be
but till/then..i might-as/well..do..what he/would..need to-be doing

<<You spend so/much time..arguing about..the system>>
but also offering m,ercy/grace/understanding

<<...Yes,..it helps..to make/other-realize...what is wrong/with-it,..but is it..making a difference?>>

it/dosnt/matter-to me/jinny
[i have./been invited..twice..to join/them]

but i cant join-in..their love-of..the vile/

you must remember..they REALLY-love/what-they...do

if you lay/with dogs/..ya..get-fleas
i plan/to face...god..saying..i tried/lord

We DONT/all want..change jinny
thats the problem...some..love getting..in the muck
really love the vile/they do

<<If you..try-to/fight the system,..you will/not-be..accepted by society.>>>lol....lol...[im sorry..im laughing..so hard]

what makes/you think-i want...in..for?

<<Tha'is-how..life works now...>>i prefer/currently/works
i like/to think/i helped..kevi/wayne..head-off the last-crash
kevi...made wayne write me a letter of thanks

i wont/be making the same..mistake/..next-time

<<Change the/things you-can,..not the/things..you can't.>>

how/can-i tell..the difference
unless i try?

Posted by
johan hendrick
johan-nine
one/under-god

OUG: I checked out you vid link. Are you indicating that you are the "Johan" in the interview? You used to type normal too, a year and more ago. Strange...

I don't find it laughable that you do not want to fit in to society. We are the same species, nobody wants to be an outcast. We are all different yes, but not wanting to be able to live with the rest of the world is acceptable behavior for you?

You are good with your words yes, some you mistype with dutch spellings. I have the same problem to being brought up speaking different languages. You think nobody cares, you think society is such an ugly place to live in? It isn't! It's how you perceive it. I am sorry to hear of your troubles and how you have been mistreated and abused. I hope things work out for you and you finally get a piece of mind.

You are doing your part in trying to change the world. I respect your views and appreciate your thoughts. Blaming society for your misery is not a good way to go about fixing your problems.

"how/can-i tell..the difference
unless i try?"

Trying is always good. You never know what you learn and gain unless you try.

There is a lot of good in our world.. we just have to focus the good side and not the bad.

i certainly hope so
i have his face...lol
[and carry his/fat..carcuss around]

<<You used..to/type normal/a year and/more ago...Strange...>>.

dont confuse..that i type..with one-finger..
and that..im quoting

[i prefer to use..quotes..
that-way..there/is..at least-two..agreeing..
on that/point..at least

<<I don't find-it..laughable/that you-do/not..want-to..fit-into society>>hey neither do i..

but lets face-it..ya either accept...things as they are
[or laugh...or cry].

<<We are..the/same species,..nobody..wants-to/be..an outcast>>

i didnt/chose..no outcast..does...but you-know..when your out-cast[then either..laugh/or cry]..i chose..to laugh...its/their loss

dear/jinny..im a strange-one
sometimes..i dont know/why..i even..put-up/with me

im told/to be me...
but/changing-me..isnt..being/me

<<We are/all..different yes,..but not/wanting..to-be/able..to live with..the rest/of..the world-is acceptable-behavior..for you?>>

i get-on..well with people..at the casual-accaintance/social/level

its just..relation-ships..i fail-at..[i dont-have..an-off/swich]

<<good/words..yes,..some you/mistype..with dutch-spellings.>...
[i did-do..grade4/5/6...in netherlands

<<You/think..nobody cares>>>no jinney...people care,
i hear-they do..{in words}..often..
talk just..dont match/deed

if i say..i care/for-u
but..try to change/u..
into what..i think-you SHOULD-be
do i care/4-u...

or am/i trying-to..create...a thing...
i can..care-for..
that..looks/like-you?

<<you/think..society is-such/an..ugly place..to live in?>>

jinny..no one...'lives..in society..
we..[ok/u..live..in a family]
we..interact/socially..within..society]

i dont-think/society..to-be ugly
its just/not-me..
i hate pretences/pretentions..im too/old to pretend

<<It isn't!>>..i know..it isnt
it just..isnt/4-me

<<It's how/you..perceive it.>>
yes it-is

<<sorry to hear/of..your troubles>>

really/jinny..i dont-feel/sorry
would/hate..any-one..to feel-sorry..for-me...
[i often..feel/sorry..for others..

but empathy..is/just..a means..people use..
to..put-others-down...[oh/poor-you...etc]

i suppose/out-casts..prefer..not/to think..about personal-things..
cause/we..learned..to/think..too/much..can..become obsession

<<mistreated and abused>>..not at all/jinny.

i have no-time..for..idle-social/natter..[chit-chat]..
that dosnt..try/to..expose/truth..or mutual-learnings..its-jus..not/4-me

[social..chit-chat=gossip/boasting/pretense/
social intercourse..for/the sake..of not..being..lonely...
not 4/me

<<things/work-out..and you..finally/get..a piece/of..mind>..
thank-you..
for-giving/me..a piece/of your mind...peace-ah..

<<Trying is..always good>>.
yes..i know..im trying...lol...very-trying

<<You never/know-what..you learn>>..so true

what/we..l-earn..<<and gain/unless..you try>>
i like..to be-more..a giver/..than a taker...
much/like..you..i guess

<<There is/a lot-of..good/in..our world..>>

true/again
i see love-every/where..i just..dont/want-to..pay its/cost
pretense/change...similtude/condecention..predicability

<<we just/have-to..focus-on..the good-side>>>

absolutly
but lets not pretend...its all..good..if its not..'all'../good

<<and not/the..bad.>>
yes lets/let the bad..ignore itself
and if..it dont ignore/us..we will still..ignore it

turn-the..other cheek

cheers jinny

thanks-for..

the best..social-inter/course..{dis-course?]
best..social..conver-sation..for weeks
best..social-inter-action..4/weeks

[thanks../4..the convo]

*You want the employer to reap the rewards of their innovation or risk but don't want the employee to be recompensed for the value of their labour.*

Err not so Pelican. I think that both should be treated equally.
That is not the case right now. Employees hold all the legal cards.

If and employee wants to move on, they simply resign. If an
employer has a drop off in business orders and needs to dismiss
staff, they demand termination payments. Even if they find
another job tomorrow. Meantime the employer could be losing his
house.

If an employer sells goods, it is the price that the market will
pay. No matter which day of the week those goods were produced.
If an employee works Sundays, its double time etc.

On one thing we agree. Employees should be compensated for their
labour. Not all the bells and whistles now added on as creamy
bonuses, for doing nothing.

how/about this solution yabby
the workers get a flat-rate...and a paycut
and a bonus percentage..for their labour/when you get paid

we get a share/of sale..proceeds if you sell the asset
or alternativly..a bonus if the business grows
when you buy..in the market...for less
we get some of the savings

we only want-what-is fair
after-all
were all in this together...

so how about it...eh
you work...we work
and we slit..it all down/the middle

heck..lets sell direct
lets value add..instead of just exporting raw/yabbies
we can open a resterant..sell direct
the worker's.. will work for a fair/share

lerts face-it
govt could easilly..do what your doing
but the worker..still needs work..to make it happen

either that or you become a one-man/show
[and no-one ever got rich...doing that[eh?]

look at clive/palmer
sues..anna/blight...gets a contract for 65...BILLION
got a loan..for 20 billion..for putting it all together
[with anna's help..and qld govt gets 600.mil;lion toyalties
clive gets 65 billion...we dont need bosses
but we do ned workers

and govt that is serving our bneeds
not the bosses

recall..when a farmer could get their land..simply by paying some working clob..to clear/fence-it

well govt wil do all that[recall howharsds fence building plan
free fences for all..on ya fere-land..wow thats a deal

lets recall the ord river/damm..built for farmers
or the snowey..to water the free farmers lands..out-west

lets bring back..the good old days
when only the master[land-holder.. could elect govt
and govt..only serrved...your needs..
and you got prisoner/labour for free
[and first choice[oops sorry use-of].. of the serfs wife/or daughters]

but those times are gone

lets bring em back
exccept now corperations own/most of it

Graham Young to me
show details 10:57 AM (55 minutes ago)

Johan,

It’s been brought to my attention
that you are joining words together
in ways that circumvent our word limitations on the forum.

If this does not stop immediately I will start deleting posts.

Some words in the English language are hyphenated, most are not.

It is sometimes legitimate to write words separated
just by a slash as in either/or, but generally not.

Graham

Chief Editor & Founder
On Line Opinion
www.onlineopinion.com.au

ok graham
i get it

anyhow
just so you..lot know now
i have run out of things to say

hope you all have a nice day
someone dont like the way i say it

be good to each other

Yabby: If you don't like how management/the system mistreats you, why don't you start your own business and be your own boss? Then you're in control. It's not that hard. Of course the taxes will still be high, but at least you don't have to put up with the BS of being mistreated by others, and anything that goes wrong will be all ours to blame.

OUG: is this not you? http://bigthink.com/ideas/12923

What happened to you between then and now? Am sorry to hear the Editor is giving you pressure.. put more effort in to your work & passion. I'm sure you can do it. You did it before.. Don't give up, stay strong. Don't hold on to the bitterness...

Yabby
Well we seem to be mostly in agreement - the 'cream' should not be obtained for doing nothing.

Although it depends what you define as 'cream'. Some pro-employer groups believe that overtime should not attract a higher rate? Can you see the dangers in that proposal?

That is just one example but it comes down to a fair wage for a fair day's work with extras to apply when extra is done - nothing wrong with that.

hi jinny...the intro
looks like its a cut/paste
from ' whatreallyhappend.com '

i don't recall posting it
but from

<<...bbc has long censored israel posts
,reportedly over 60 percent of israel topic replies..>.,..

onwards
thats mine for sure

<<..What happened to you between then and now?>>

clearly..my style..is different from the intro cut and paste

<<Am sorry to hear the Editor is giving you pressure..>>

its more a blessing than a curse
[you see if someone enters your life to do you injury
in the next life there are no secrets

and i can ask as many questions
as i need

to resolve the issue with that specific complainant
that complained to graham

<<put more effort into your work & passion.>>
i rspect grahams decisions

he is one of the few who has actually meet me
if he asks
i can but try to obey

he asks so little of us

and
i know i shouldnt admit it
so i wont

but my posts take an average of 440 words each
[its the limit of my concentration span]

to post two
220 posts seems to me to be silly
so i try to make my posts more readable

by doing little tricks..no one can complain about

when they do
i know its time for a rethink
or for a timeout

how readable is my new style?
this is my first attempt to do it different

<<I'm sure you can do it. You did it before..>>

and i shall no doudt do it again
but maybe via a different form
next time

and when the next person says
they dont get what im saying
i can safely admit its not my fault

thanks for the en-couragment

<<Don't hold on to the bitterness...>.

there is no bitter-ness

every seeming setback
in this life
is more than compensated in the next

lol 474/words
ok two posts

see i chose to go to court
because i like to ask trickey questions of the god-heads
thinking they are kingmuck

like police
or lawyers
or judges
or polititions

and by them chosing to affect my life

i get to ask heaps of questions
of them
in the next life
just like i did in this one

as many as it takes
for me to resolve the issue...there

those who complained have no idea
how heavenly kaerma works

in time i shall find the true real
under lying cause of their complaint

i know graham wont tell
so its no use even asking him

so in the next life i get to ask
the actual person

to please explain
about what was the real issue
here
now

ok the big thing is 350 word limit
no one should have any right
to tell me how i use them..or wether i space or slash..or dot or dash

that should be within
the 350 word limit

cheers eh

Dear OUG,

You are so warm and wise, and one cool dude.

I will miss your other-worldliness and totally unique expression if OLO heads have their way.

You see through the facades.

Don't stop.

I wish you much luck with your latest challenge.

Kind regards,

Constance

A good starting point for changing the world, would be to identify some cars with foglights on while there is no fog, drag the drivers out of their vehicles by the hair and bash them senseless with a 3 iron.

Dear UOG: I am very happy to see the changes in you so quickly. I apologize if I have judged you wrongly. It is not my position to as I do not know you in person. Keep up the good work, believe in yourself. Everything happens for a reason.

Your typing skills have improved tremendously. If anyone says now they can't get you, they need to go back to school.

Fight in what you believe in. We all know how wrong the system is. We need more people like you: brave enough to stand up to the crap.

Take it easy, you have lots of supporters here. Share, express, and you are making a difference! :)

Hi Jinny and OUG. Am learning a great deal by your conversations. A couple of things baffling me. If a person feels genuinely sorry for another's attitude or view/outlook of a situation, being genuinely compassionate, how is it a put down to that person?

The other query: how is anyone an outcast living in Australia? How do you OUG perceive to be an 'outcast'? I have never looked at another person regardless of addictions, criminal history or lack of assets, or a loner, as an 'outcast'. I had no idea people thought of themselves as 'outcasts' living in Australia.

There is no 'caste' system in existence here.

Kindest wishes.

unique break down the question

quote<<If a person feels genuinely sorry>>
only acts of helping them
ie feeding housing clothing education them
[actually changing the problem into solution]

expresses your being truelly empathetic

not judging them lesser beings
but only equals being given [freely] 'help'

did they ask for sympathy or help

if we 'judge' ..<<for another's attitude>>
thats only your opinion

do you have the facts /experience they had or are having
to reach their situation needing more than opinion?

recall our opinions are rooted in the facts
revealed in OUR life

you might not have had their experience [yet]
thus empathise in ignorance
making arrant hasty opinionated 'judgment'

judging not empathising

<<or view/outlook>>
thats only your vieuw
not theirs

are you looking down
or looking up
or from the same level?

the same level is impossable
as we all have had different lives /experience
that formed differing opinions life circumstances

different awarness
different learnings
different hates loves

different fears biasies
differing life situations
divergent status or lack of status

we empathise from.. <<of a situation>>
unlike but presumably better-than we judge theirs,

<<being genuinely compassionate,how is it a put down to that person?>>

did they ask for help
or sympathy

did they indeed ask for anything
yet we judged them ''poor you'

that was either a presumption
[if you didnt seek to help]

or a judgment
if we presume them to 'need' our opinion

us thinking our opinion can help
is only an opinion

its just/ not actually helping any-thing
but our selves to feel good

about not physiclly helping
not physicly doing/ giving a physical solution
only metal solace opinion
in lue of physical assistance

<<how ..outcast living in Australia? >>

think of ab-origonals living in exile
herded into town camps herded onto islands

the homeless living under bridges
the drunk leaning on the bar
[at opening time]

those osolated into the suburbs
without anything but a tv set
unable to afford the electicity for a warm bath

its easy to feel excluded even in a crowd
or excluded from a converasation
or not being heard

<<How do you OUG perceive to be an 'outcast'?>>
i cast my self
out of being type-cast
changing myself to fit in
pretend to be something i could never be

take spelling as a weak egsample
i could spell check
yet still be revealed as ignorant
because i still cant use the other commas full-stops etc

there is also the matter of individual...un-educated-ness
to be considerd..

i cant tell my
'/'...from my..'\'
nor my"*" from my'^'

and its not cause im dumb..

but just never have been taught/..
what they mean
or how they are used

for that matter '....'
i think reads like errr or ummm

but i use it them
to divide one point from the next

often i seek to expand.... upon a previous point
by using a slash '/' or a ./.
to indicate an aternative ...or expaned point

or 'breakup' one word [break-up]
or join two from [one-word]

i use these devisices...for clarity
or to rebut specific-points

as many realise/.. im illiterate..

but doing the best i can
within the limitations of my lack of education
while trying to remain clear
and within the rules

anyhow its hard to change your writing style
[but i have had to do it so often

i dont have any style what so ever
[or should those 3 words be one word

[whatsoever] or be hyphenated? [what-so-ever]
but that looks funny [wrong to me]

so i write it [what?so-ever]
or what!-so_ever]

eventally settling on
what_ever



<<There is no 'caste' system in existence here>>

tell that to a
abo
dero
druggie

addict
pensioner
single mother

homeless person
indiginous person

welfare recipiant
refuse regugegee

detainee
the accused

we are unique: You can't change how a person feels and think. You need to accept that. It is their right to express what they feel. Whether right or wrong, this is where we are now. OUG feels like an outcast because he is/was subjected to unfair treatment and injustice by the system. It is his believe. He is entitled to that. Every single being have rights to their decisions in life. OUG seems to be very passionate about everyone/thing else. That much that he has forgotten about caring and looking after himself.

We have no one to blame except ourselves in the end. If we did not try hard enough, if we allowed ourselves to be hurt, abused, used, sad, upset, stressed, negative, controlled. This is our life. We always have a choice, a choice to live it to the fullest, or we can choose to live in the past, never growing, never experiencing, wasting your life away because of the present world we live in.

The secret to have a great life, is in YOU, you yourself. Not the government, not your love ones, it is in yourself. When you can see that clearly as I can, everything will fall into place, everything will make sense. You will then understand, why it is, how it is....

Hope everyone is having a blast of a weekend! :) Cheer

Hi OUG

I can understand where you are coming from in relation to the questions I posed. Half of those labels you listed I have been there and experienced; however my point is that it is how 'one' [ourselves] view ourselves/soul that is [my opinion/my reality/fact].

This attitude, about ourselves, ie whether we are outcasts, comes from within ourselves is my point. Other peoples labelling or opinions are irrelevant and false.

For instance, for each, at the time, negative experience I have worked my way through, from being semi-illiterate, non tertiary qualified, a single and destitute mother, a welfare recipient, homeless, etc, my faith in God and praying for assistance, has allowed me to realise that I am not a victim, not an outcast, not any lesser of a human being within society, than any other person, therefore, neither is any other person an outcast, totally illiterate or a lone single mother or welfare recipient. These situations vary and if observing these labels closely, they do not in fact exist. It is how we view ourselves at any given time.

I stand up for the rights of the downtrodden in society a great deal emotionally and physically, part of the unpaid work I do is sharing with those people who are experiencing hardships, primarily children, teenagers and parents, in part, assisting them to feel, that they are not a victim, nor an outcast or any lesser of a human being than any other person.

There is no such thing as an outcast; only a person's viewpoint [opinion/labelling] of another, and/or a person's lack of self esteem [viewpoint of themselves]during certain low periods of time within their lives as a result of experiences.

Words/opinions/viewpoints made to another, if expressed genuinely, and if that person has experienced the same issue, for the most part, can be highly beneficial to the person who feels a victim.

If God does not label, why should we label others or label ourselves?

Thank you Jinny for your comments. My viewpoints are my own as are yours and others.

OUG

In relation to the things regarding change and improvement of our system to benefit other Australians. I have contributed greatly [my opinion] to changing both private and government systems over 30 years during the course of both my work and personal journey, at times, risking employment at various places [while working within the law], to better Australians working and private lives.

As do many other Australians.

I do not consider myself an outcast, rebel or crusader opposing or suggesting changes to Acts/Legislation/government and private processes when my objective is to assist other Australians in improving their conditions.

We are all equal [regardless of assets] home shelter education food intellect, and we all suffer, at various times in our lives, for a reason [reasons that God is fully aware of: a 'higher reason']. I have always seen my life journey this way, especially enduring hardships.

One of those 'higher reasons' was to give me genuine compassion and empathy for others who are experiencing the similar hardships I have endured, in order to assist them.

Words and opinions do assist others OUG and sometimes the firmer words and messages conveyed to others, as you would know, are required on occasions, in order for people to treat themselves equally

OUG,

Last comment for tonight, your writing style has never bothered me and I have noticed not bothered the majority of people responding to your beautiful intelligent contributions here on OLO.

There is great room for improvement expressing myself when writing, therefore disregard your english and writing style as a problem for people. It is not.

People soon catch on to the context and points that posters are contributing if the subjects interest them and they wish to participate.

Most people fully comprehend both yours and Belly's issues, writing and writing styles. More than you both realise!

For those who are interested, it was me who complained about OUG. This site has rules which govern our interactions and one of those rules is that the word limit is 350 per post. I go to some trouble to edit my contributions to fall within that limit while remaining coherent and cogent and I am fed up with watching OUG deliberately flaunt it to write gibberish.

I hope that oug can learn from this and change his "style" as he puts it to one which is both readable and compliant with the rules. Rational content would be nice, but I'm flexible. Obviously some people feel he has something to say worth reading.

Dear Antiseptic,

Seems that you are giving yourself a huge pat on the back for having relieved the forum of what you obviously consider to be blatantly eccentric, unreadable, non-compliant and wanton "rule-breaking".
You appear to be what writer, Tom Hodgkinson, refers to as a "botherer" (closely related to self-important puritans). Botherers go through life sniffing the wind for any behaviour that deviates from that which is prescribed or that transgress certain unwritten sensibilities.
So OUG was technically posting outside the rules - so what? Was he hurting anyone?
I think this has more to do with your unease at people who don't conform than anything of more profound value

Poirot:"Seems that you are giving yourself a huge pat on the back "

Not at all. OUG asked who reported him and I'm not one to hide. Would you prefer I did it and then skulked around like a cowardly cur, as others are wont to do?

Poirot:"You appear to be what writer, Tom Hodgkinson, refers to as a "botherer" (closely related to self-important puritans). "

Hahahaha. Whatever you say. Feel free to post gibberish of your own if you're missing OUG's contribution.

Poirot:"OUG was technically posting outside the rules - so what? Was he hurting anyone?"

Yes he was posting outside the rules. I have already explained why I am aggrieved by that. You seem to be one of those people who wants one rule for people you like and another for those you don't. Some might call that hypocrisy...

FWIW, all credit to Antiseptic, for his honesty. I wish that those
posters who have complained about my posts in the past, were as
honest.

I also have to agree that UOG's posts are extremely difficult to
read and hardly add credibility to the site. It's not as if
UOG can't do better, he chooses not to, for his own reasons.

My reaction is a bit different. Rather then complain or spend
time trying to decipher what he has written, I just skip over
his posts and read what more credible posters have written.

Clearly he has a following of female posters who seemingly want
to now bemother and protect him :)

Go girls, if it keeps you happy. I have no such instincts.

I must confess, I rarely read much of oug's stream-of-consciousness posts.

And I, too, mildly jibbed at his word-extension machinations, a couple of years back.

But whenever I did make the effort to read them, I found that they had been written by someone with a wicked grasp if the language, forever playing with words and spellings, often with poetic, sometimes even mesmeric effect. A form of free verse, high on imagery and vitality.

Some of it even made sense, eventually.

So quite frankly, I see no reason for anyone to dob in another poster for a technical breach of the rules, especially where it was clear that the breach was style-related, not content-related.

It has been crystal clear for a very long time that oug has had special dispensation from the editors. Quite frankly, I see no reason for that to change, just because some self-appointed umpire takes exception to this.

Mind you, anyone else trying to buck the rules, with posts of bone-dry-as-dust logic and soul-crushing banality, should be edited to within an inch of their desiccated souls.

Antiseptic: Your nickname pretty much explains you as a person very well.

I agreed with Poirot on his response to your reaction.

we are unique: I admire what you do and wish there were more people like you out there...

This is the problem. As humans, we think we have the rights to judge others. Doesn't matter what the law states, doesn't matter what the rules are.. We have NO RIGHT to cause any other life grieve. No right. Forget all the laws and rules we have to live with. As a life one this planet, why do we think just because we are more advanced, that we can mistreat any other life form.

Antiseptic: Are you saying that if you were dealing(example, not indicating anyone) with someone with a disability... If you are in an undeveloped country, the law doesn't make you abide to giving them any priority. So you would mistreat them because of that? So they can have it tougher, and suffer more. Nobody is perfect. Unless you think you are, I don't see how you have any right to cause a problem. No matter what the law/rules say.

We as the superior species, are suppose to HELP make things better, because we know better! Grow up! Stop letting your past experience cloud your judgements.

Yabby: For his honesty? If he can't deal with how people type, for whatever reasons, don't read it!?? Somehow Antiseptic thinks that by admitting he was the cause of bother to UOG, it will make him feel better as a person.. because, his instincts hv told him that what he has done is NOT right, that's why it bothers him enough to respond here.

Pericles: Everyone is different, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. I think UOG has a many good points when he writes. For whatever reasons he doesn't type like the rest of us is a personal issue and we should all respect that.

End of the day.. we don't even know UOG's personal story. Unless someone can tell me everything about his past, I don't see how anyone should be allowed to judge him.

This is what is wrong. We think we have the rights, we have the rights to cultivate animals in abundance, to murder life(insects, plants, animals), pollute, abuse, etc. We have the rights for survival yes. But what has happened is Money, Greed, Power and Control.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my postings. I am just here to express my thoughts. The ugliness of our beautiful world sometimes bothers and frustrates me..

It is my belief that OUG will understand, therefore I would not worry on his behalf.

After reading many of OUG's posts, have noticed that he is one of the longest term contributors to OLO and has assisted many Australians [via interaction and postings] through their life journeys. An incredible commitment for someone to give give give to other people over many many years despite the obstacles through life that he/she has hurdled. How many would bother putting themselves out to assist other Australians for all of those years? Not many is my estimate. I admire people that have committed to forums in a totally giving capacity [and receive too] staying on Forums for the long haul. Something I have not done.

I have every confidence OUG fully comprehends the reasons as to why any posters state a negative comment regarding lengthy contributions, after all, OUG has all the longevity and history behind him, interacting with people from all walks of life covering a wide range of subjects already discussed at length with hundreds of people.

It is the reasons behind negative comments, that should give 'one' the clue. OUG has more readership and interest than he probably ever realises.

Guys, you have caught yourselves OUT LOL! No cynicism here, genuine revelational humour and laughing.

Admit it! Curiosity got the better of you!

Why not continue or post your concepts on how you would change the world, instead of taking issue with the formatting of an OLO poster?

Admit it! Curiosity got the better of you both!

There is 'someone' or 'something' relating to God and Christianity for everyone!

Have a great week Yabby and Antiseptic!

Pericles:"I must confess, I rarely read much of oug's stream-of-consciousness posts. "

You and me both.I may read more if they were in English.

Pericles:"I see no reason for anyone to dob in another poster for a technical breach of the rules, "

It's technical breaches of the rules that we SHOULD discourage: they're the only breaches which are not subjectively assessed. Moreover, if it's OK for OUG to breach, then it's OK for others to do so. Personally, I'd love to be able to just add a few non-letter characters and get as many extra words as I like, and I'm sure you have more to say in some of your posts.

Pericles:"some self-appointed umpire "

Well, it IS GT's site, after all... Perhaps you could make an offer for it if you don't like his decisions?

jinny:"I agreed with Poirot on his response to your reaction."

I'm sure you did, dear and you're just as silly to do so. Oh BTW, Poirot is a "she".

we are unique, I have no problem whatever with OUG posting in whatever style he chooses. I see no need to extend him special dispensation to breach the rules to do so.

On the subject of religion generally: it's bunkum at best, an organised con job at worst. If you or anyone else wishes to waste your time thinking about fairy stories, then go right ahead, but don't expect me to regard your pursuit with any greater respect than I'd give to a dedicated student of Heinlein or Tolkein.

It's revealing that Yabby and Antiseptic appear to have targeted my gender as an explanation for my defence of OUG.
Honestly, "boys", I have no desire to "mother" anyone on this forum. On the contrary, I always find it intriguing when people start fizzing and popping in response to non-threatening, non-conformist behaviour. It opens a small window on the way society operates.

oh well ..my punishment had good fruits
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24154#comments
god does move in mysterious ways

thank-you for your kind words
and thanks for the confession...

i hold no concern over what others feel needs to be done
they only are helping the next step to be revealed

so thanks jinny for finding the link where i sought solace
and yes i dont need a mother nor overlord

anyhow the law is love each other..

...and there wasnt a 350 word limit
where i said ...that which needed to be said..where it was said

anyhow i have egsausted things i wanted to say

cheers all..thanks for helping me change...the world
[of course the world isnt ready for change]
but the only change we can achive
is the change...with-in]

cheers to you all

funny i cant post this to here
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24154/create_comment#comments
it was just getting interesting...lol

Question: Why is it so difficult for scientists to believe in a higher power?

it has a peer bassed stasis...
cannot even define the permiter let alone the parra-meter...
cant measure that it cant find....

so saying here is a clue what your looking for

these 'other' di-mentions are divisions of the quantive affirming the Qualitive...where Q>q so thats part of the formula...

It’s the outer edge of those faculties which we have to develop here.

It’s the main link..between our world and yours.

You know that some people have learnt of things which are
happening to their friends at a distance. We all can do so here, and that is the way we communicate with each other;

speech does not exist with us.

This explains those sayings in the Bible ..about nothing shall be hid.... You cannot tell lies here ...Nor be deceived.

But that is not all,... for every separate thought exists of itself ..or rather the intent passions which bring it into realities focus point..

and we can see them all.

“This explains the doctrine of the Catholics ..(at which I used to laugh) that a really...REALLY..visualised and PLANNED.. evil thought, [creates an event ]..one such as murder, is worse than a venial sin.

“My punishment consists largely of this, that all my evil deeds and thoughts rise up...as my percieving of their reality... ever before me... in as real a shape as I myself possess.

lol 934 words
ok 3 pages

They [my thoughts/obsessions which i persued passionatle...
planned meticiously..are there ..with all the surrounding..impedimenta.”
....goods/bads and realisations[fruits]

J.W. “What do you mean by that?”
H.J.L. “Well,Jack,..I don’t want you to think worse of me, so instead of quoting a..real offence, I’ll show you what I mean by a fictitious one.

“Suppose a man committed a murder, or even meditated one —
Not merely the actual/murder, but all the surrounding details,
such as the furniture and room in which it was, or who/how is specificlly was intended to be committed, ARE ALL here.!

”...AS real.. AS_IF they were done in reality

J.W. “Then do you mean to say that there is no difference between the fault thought of.. and one committed? “
H.J.L. “It all depends on the reason why it was not. ..!

Supposing your better nature/gains the upper hand and you refuse to act ...as your lower nature/imp-ulses.. prompts you; then, ...after....visualisation seing the event ion the minds eye...and it enters the heart...by seeing advantages in this..the evil thought, AND REJECTING...IT..you will be refreshed by seeing ..the good one —

for all your.. good/deeds and thoughts*.. come here also.
[here is the astral realm...right here
occupying this same space..[but beyond time...S>T...

“If the sin had not been committed ...solely because you were prevented by something-else,...[higher intervention]...or your own concious cawakening..

then *..there would be no good thought to refresh your weary spirit here in eternity.

Of course a man/may be temporarily prevented from giving way to an evil passion,.. and afterwards rejoice that it should have been so.

BUT..All that... he will see here.

Thus each one lives... in a world /of his own creating, ..and the more nearly... his world /approximates to that of others around him,..the more company,.. the less solitude will he have....[recall mine fathers HOUSE has many rooms...in the rooms are BETTER and WORSE than thee

[recalll those of the love of murder..CAN ONLY MURDER EACH-OTHER..[of like passions]...its heaven for most ...hell for the victim...

“Solitude is one of the worst punishments here, and so those who, though having..many faults,

....yet loved much
and had many friends, get their reward.”
[more of the same shall be given]..

J.W. “Does this state remain constant, or do you get to know more people and your/former thoughts haunt you less? “

H.J.L. “Now I told you ...we did progress only... last time.
You should not ask..unnecessary questions, nor try to catch me tripping

I repeat, we do progress as we learn,and particularly as we learn to believe....[in the good of love/life serving neighbour as we served ourself[to the bnetter/goodf/god.

As to the second part of your question, I don’t really know exactly what happens,....[there is nom automatic devine revelation..like here KNOW-LEDGE..must be sought and L-earned.. but as we go on thinking here ..

we create fresh-thoughts, ..and as these are ..of a nobler nature /than those we thought on earth, they refresh..us and enable us to bear more easily... the grief we feel... for our former faults...OUR FORMER ERRANT THINKINGS...!

“We realize as faults here... things that on earth we deceived ourselves into thinking..were not faults....simple error/but for the RESULTING vile they may have inspired in others

“I should add.. that at first it’s rather like a hideous/nightmare: — all one’s dead/forgotten..thoughts come crowding round;... but after a time they seem to fall into a distinct order, but..I can’t explain how.{gods ceaceless mercy..

At any rate, [in time-[lessness]..things become easier.

A lot of what I have been telling..you.. I have recently learnt from my teacher. ...I have also learnt... a lot from some of the
others....FOR by sharing good the good harvest is brought into realisation...shall my attempts at comfort be rejected?

is not for me to decxide...if you have facts PRESENT them...if not then AT LEAST stop and think...HAVE you made love to another today...have you created diamands or peasents in heaven...

have you heard obeyed ..the good/living-voice [light]..within..
or the one ..that feeds fear?...dwelling in the darkness of blind faith..in theories...anyhow my passion to post is gone

im just sick of
the games/people play
....in ignorance

378 words in that last one, OUG...

If I were a cynical man, I'd suggest you are trying to play games with Graham's ruling.

UOG, I have been wondering what you have been up to. Are you ok? I hope you are, you are in my mind and heart. Please do not let other people's judgement effect your thinking and believes. You are who you are and you should always be proud of that.

I respect you strong believe in GOD. GOD is what you make of HIM/IT? Einstein's theory of GOD was the Universe. Which ever religion or believe you choose, is your right, your beliefs is what will help you.

Scientist are not always right. I mean.. come one.. so they find out humans can meditate for months/years without consuming a drop of water or food, and they try their hardest to snub the theory? yea.. he's hiding water in his beard? how smart. They don't want to accept that life in this planet is full of energy. It is full of miracles.. if only we can get back in tune to who we are suppose to be...

Take care, stay strong, keep fighting... you will win

hi jinny i suppose i should thank you for remminding me of the OTHER site
[i created that id when one under god id got cancelled there
after bbc cancelled one under god id there
and thus posted ...that post you found

co-incidentially mr septic complained...and i got banned/here
but look at that as gods hand...advising me ...to go back
to that id..and finish what unders god's muse started there

so i have been posting sans the word/limit
and getting back my enthusiasm...

till this morning when the previous post's.. refused to be posted..[so suspect ..the same as last time... thus came back here and posted] ..but my heart is no longer in posting

so mr anti septric has done that he is no doudt paid to do [complain]
but i hold him no malice/..just feel; sorry for the fruits he is earning..[for his next life]... here/now

its hardly worth reply to the anti=septic.. word-counter

he counted the words in 3 posts..
and found over count in one

as it was
i edited it 4 or 5 times before posting
if grayham thinks this deserves cencure so be it

i have no wish to be rsponsable for the works
mr septic replies with

under/which he is preparing
his next reality in the next realm...

regardles of the matter
the blame shall not be my posts...
he wins.... his prize awaits...
he has earned his re-word [reward]

in posting further... he would only dig his grave deeper..[spiritually]
and i dont want ..my posts/result's..[fruit]
to be the blame of his spuiritual-fall

your special jinny*...[just so you know]
but so too is the anti-sceptic
he just dont know it

and im not going to bother telling him

posting is difficult enough for me
without a know-it-all
revealing
he knows nothing

i go to the place of good thoughts
be nice to each other...cheers

OUG:"so mr anti septric has done that he is no doudt paid to do [complain]"

LOL. Yes, I'm part of the vast worldwide conspiracy against you. I believe that everyone is.

More seriously, old chap, simply obey the word limit instead of trying to play silly buggers.

Well donr on keeping to the word limit this post, BTW.

The AS: UOG has got you diagnosed pretty well. I have a better diagnosis.. as always. Um... just keep causing others grieve since you can't deal with your own. Please, for your own sake, get some professional help. You don't have better things to do with your time? look after plants, animals, humans? Noooooo... u have time to judge people you don't even know. Good on you :)! I mean? who on earth... bothers to count how many worlds some stranger on a forum writes? Is your life that sad and boring? My god! I so so feel for you and your arguements trying to put others down to make yourself feel better. GET HELP! I don't like to put ppl down.. but u need to learn.. and i have the time... so i will spend my time.. to teach you. I will monitor your post, and judge you. Because: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT, to put anyone one else down except yourself.

And... since you do not want to listen to anyone.. I will make you listen, and I will MAKE you learn. Your sarcasm and views have been shot down by so many... and still you want to argue. Wake up. What world are you living in?

I apologize. Not because I am breaking the rules of the forum: no personal attacks. I apologize because I have to give make this human realize the reality he lives in. Because, even though I know I have no right to judge him as I do not know him personally, I do not think he has any right to abuse others, like a coward, hiding behind a computer.

UOG:

sorry.. continued:

UOG: Not trying to butt into your life. Do you suffer from Schizophrenia? Dual personality. I don't have enough time to research you. From what I can tell on what is here on this website, your style of typing can change so easily. You say you struggle with your typing. I wonder. Few years ago, you typed normal, then you changed here into poetic, then after the complaint you changed without the symbols, then you changed back into normal, the back to poetic? What are your mental illnesses? I am not picking on you.. i am merely trying to understand.

Understand why you have so much passion fighting for your believes that you have forgotten how to be a human and live in society normally. The amount of research, study, discussions you have put so much of energy into, can you not spend it on life that needs help? Can you not spend it on children? can you not spend it on plants and animals instead of the internet trying to prove your believes?

I feel for you, and so do many. I just think you are spending too much time proving your obsessions. You can write about what you believe. People will read. You can do more, to change somebody. You still haven't learned all.... that is why you are how you are.

jinny:"u have time to judge people you don't even know. "

LOL, this just gets better and better.

jinny:"I will monitor your post, and judge you."

LMAO. You do that, dear. I haven't had an online stalker for days now.

Don't you think it would be easier for OUG just to stick to the word limit?

jinny the world is full of mr septics
they are anti people seeking to change things

in courts i have met many septics
and yes they thought to clean me up
by sending me for court order phyc evaluation...lol three times

three times i have proved im not nuts
is this good enough for you?

i only interfere with my own life
not obsess about others lives...[like mr anti oug]

you must learn to ignore bad smells wherever you find them jinny
[must turn a blind eye to thy brrrr-others nakedness
[or else the laws of karma joins you to their stink]

dont worry about what mr septic does or did jinny
he is too set in his anti ways to change now
its best to simply let sleeping dogs lie

i refuse to mention his clear illness
he must have had the most horribly unsatisfying life ...for him to want to make mine like his ..
let him have his 'victory'.. he has had so few wins.... w

e have planted a seed ..in time he ..just might wake-up

but remember he has eternity... to get it right

has no concept of others as feeling beings
lets let him simple try to work through
his obvious bias

..bassed on delusioning/fears
in time we all wake up ..from delusions...

its just ..clearly not ..yet ...his time
but in the end ..we all ..'get-it'

you can lead a donkey to water
but he wont drink ..till he has thirst

in time ..he will get...'it'
and may have earned more than we ..or he realises

but its nothing to do with us
we have our own learnings to get on with

Wonderful! You CAN stay within the word limit. The vast worldwide anti-OUG conspiracy is tremendously impressed.

Now, if only we could manage to do something with that enormous chip on your shoulder...

lets just ignore
the one who cant read
but can count using a computa

who hasnt commented on the topic..
only tried to end anyone/else from discussion ..on it

[for which he/she... has form]

» 31/03/2010 6:49:37 AM [Deleted for abuse].....
» 31/03/2010 6:37:53 AM [Deleted for abuse and poster suspended for two weeks].....
» 31/03/2010 4:29:33 AM This post was deleted for abuse......

» 29/03/2010 7:13:43 AM [Deleted for abuse].....

» 29/03/2010 6:14:03 AM [Deleted for abuse].....

OR LEST we forget
HOW HE ...LOVE's ATTENTION

here is his
classic play

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2153&page=0#48647

so lets ignore ...this SERIAL-PEST
with the silence
his type ..have earned

so saying ..lets get on with
changing the world

we have/seen ..how septic ...
gets his/her ..changes through
...by forcing others to change

WHATEVER IT TAKES...

dont fall into this septic
anti's...type traps

simply ignore him/..her..
is all we need do

this realm*
..is divided as follows:

“1.Belief with works.
“2.Belief without works.

“3.Half-Belief.
“4.Unbelief. — Hell.

those in the fifth realm /use a spirit ..
in the higher planes of the sixth
through whom to communicate.

Any message from the fifth realm ..
would thus have to pass through two mediums
to reach earth.

“Each plane ..in the sixth realm
is divided into various divisions''

they too use mediums ...for their negativity
[like septic]...to stop any changes ..to the good
from being revealed ...into this realm

thus we each /all ...have ..a purpose...reason

some to serve ..the negative

others ..trying to bring on ..the good

by their deeds ...are each* revealed
by their works ..shall we know them
[or rather what they serve .,..realising into being ...here/now..]

they SIMPLY cant help themselves
and need-to ..stop others ..
from exposing ...their abusive use of fear
rules regulations in lue of logic

YOU CAN COUNT ...ON THIS....lol
just as sure as ...his computer ...shall count the words

cause he cannot resist..the urge
to ...serve ..those ..of the dark/vile/side

[hell ...
cant you tell?]

All that petulance just for being asked to maintain some self discipline and observe the word limit.

Dear me.

so lets explain the dark side
where those rejecting the light love logic living
who chose to dwell..[in hell]

5.UN-Belief without works.
6.UN-Belief with works.

7...activly subverting ..those with Half-Belief.
8...the lower ..[pits of hell] active..Unbelief...works

serial abuses ..then the lowest of the low true solitary— Hell's.

the last chance of repentances
previous to steriliation of all ..past memories
and go back to go...be invcarnated here ...yet again

a new life often..in aminal incarnation...

allowing them to re-evolve back-up
to this human incarnation

till then
god loves the repentant heart

realise the truth of..
[go and sin no more]
but what is wisdom to a beast
[one cant reason with a stone]

till we/they... seek to learn
its enough to know
life returns ...that we earn

the truth of more shall be given
as we ..chose here...chose to serve...here

bne thankfull ..your not haunted ..
as he/she is/by such a powerfull negative demon
wispering his vile into his ears/mind/heart

who waits ..to further abuse ..his slave
in time...

unless ..that slave
awake ...to the good of god
and accepts love ...his true due

where before ..he/she.. accepted only vile
as that is all ...he/she knew

every moment of living
gives us all..the chance ..to start a-new

thankfully ..gy knows this ...to be true
thus he gives fairity ...more than most of us ..ever knew

we're in the realm of words..[now]
next realm is..the real-m ..of ..e/motion

EDITED

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/

specificly

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/stories/2010/10/19/3041019.htm

America's Worst Mum

EDITED.. How to Raise Safe Self-Reliant Children
Without Going Nuts with Worry".

She started the "Free Range Kids" edited
..about letting her son ride the subway [gasp]...ALONE

the first 20 minutes funny
EDITED... vital

EDITED link

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/bigideas/browse/video_popup.htm?vidURL=/tv/bigideas/stories/2010/10/19/3041019-mediarss-full.xml&vidTitle=America's Worst Mum Speaks!&vidLength=Full

EDITED..next step
to setting ourselves free
..from the fear demons

free-range kids ...is certainly a needed learning
to end this insane addiction ..passing on our fears to the innocent

it will come as no news
that the media and lawyers
serving the industrial complex ...
have created much fear simply to sell us product...

....extract from gone_west

describes this hell

For some time we walked along the bank
of a broad and filthy stream which ran into the great river.

EDITED
we reached a huge city. It was a most dismal place —great chimney-stacks everywhere, and factories and warehouses on every side, and
between them ran squalid, dirty streets.

Filth and grime were everywhere. In and out of the factories moved streams of workmen, and I stopped to inquire what they were doing.

“One replied‘Working; what do you suppose?’

“‘But what do you do with the goods?’
“‘Sell them, of course;
but the funny thing is that as soon as they are sold
they return to the factory from which they came.

That’s why it is all the factories have so many huge
warehouses. We are constantly building new ones to hold the goods.

The whole place seems choked with them
can’t get clear of the damned things.

EDITED

no matter how we try to get rid of them,they always come back.’

“The Officer.‘Why don’t you burn them?’
“The Stranger. ‘Burn them?
Why, we’ve burnt a dozen great warehouses at a time,
but there they are again.

Simply can’t get rid of the beastly rubbish.’

“The Officer. ‘Why do you go on making the goods then?’
“The Stranger. ‘We can’t help it.
We seem driven ...by some strange force.

Compelled/to work and work without ceasing.

There’s no rest.

how about the act of dying?

“I BECAME unconscious and after a time recovered,or so it seemed. Indeed,my mind suddenly became clear,but I began to feel a heavy weight.

Gradually I realized,this weight was slipping away from me,
or rather,I was sliding out from it,as if someone
were drawing his hand out from a wet glove.

Then I began to feel free.at one end,
so to speak,and then I began to see again.

“I saw once more the room and the people in it.
Then I was free! free!

I saw myself,lying stretched out on the bed,
and from my mouth came,as it were,a cord of light.

It vibrated for a moment,then snapped,
and from my mouth came away.

At that moment someone said,‘I think he has gone’
Or if they did not say it,they thought it.

I exhibited all the signs of suffering intense cold.
I shivered and moaned,“Cold, cold,”Piercing feeling of cold.

I was a naked soul,no body,nothing to give me warmth.
I shuddered and shivered like this for many a seeming age.

“Suddenly it seemed to grow a little less.
I was aware of a presence.

our world impinges on yours.
I hate similes,but it is as if we were thrown on to your stage,
our scenery —and our characters
walking about you,but unseen by you.

Just as a real man on such a stage,would hot see the phantoms which
surrounded him,but the audience sees both him and them.

“We are in the same world as you,but not subject to the same laws.
For example,..time and space don’t exist.

This sounds trite,and so it is,
for the truth usually is trite,
because it’s true, ..and therefore always has existed.”

J.W.“But you are here now.How,then, can there be no space? “

H.J.L.“Compare us to a thought.
We are more than a thought,..for we continue to think;

but compare us to a thought;
you may then get some idea of what I mean.

..but your finer senses are controlled ..by your body
and you are unaware of ...

edited

Mr Moderator, please do something about antiseptic's behaviour. You've intervened in OUG's posts because they are too long, because antiseptic complained to you about what he described here as OUG's "gibberish". Antiseptic's posts have been personal attack after personal attack etc etc. Mr Moderator, please do something about antiseptic's behaviour.

Below you'll find antiseptic's contribution to this topic.

"Now if only we could only manage do something with that enormous chip on your shoulder"

"All that petulance"

"I am a part of the vast worldwide conspiracy against you"

"you do that dear, I haven't had an online stalker for days"

"I'm sure you did dear and you're just as silly to do so"

"Feel free to post gibberish of your own"

Antiseptic is trying to "bait" people and "get" at them. Mr Moderator, please do something about it.

In the interests of disclosure I should say that I have complained privately to the moderator about antiseptic's behaviour on this topic. I was told the posts I was complaining about were not "recently" written, and that he would do nothing about them.

So I am left no recourse other than to publicly advocate that the cane be applied to antiseptic.

I suspect this will annoy the moderator, and he'll delete this post and my other post above. And leave all antiseptic's posts untouched and leave antiseptic unwarned.

After my posts are deleted I request that if anyone here agrees with what I've written please carry on the discussion about this and about how one member, antiseptic, gets away so easily with personally baiting other members. I suspect the moderator will just now ban me. Bye bye free speech.

LOL! Good on you samsung! :) I don't think the moderator can ban you for freedom of speech. We can all see want AS as he really is. Do not let his irritating self bother you as he has proven himself time and time again, what a waste of time he is. I can't believe I wasted my time on him.

AS is a good example, of the things we can't change.. the stubbornness and ignorance of adults. Just ignore negative statements, and take in the positive ones. We can learn from both. Because we can tell right from wrong. He has taught us a valuable lesson. That we should not judge others in a negative manner. Every reaction there are lessons. Thus we learn and grow.

UOG: You still haven't answered my personal questions. I can't understand how you can spend so much time debating your theories. As long as you believe it, they(your beliefs) are right. You don't need others telling you that your beliefs are the right ones. What matters is what you belief, as a being.

Ph look, the sock-puppet anf the stalker have found each other, A true match made in heaven.

im against..ANYONE being banned..for near-anything
if their dumb enough,to put it under their id,well so be it
i figure freedom of speaking-is either EQUAL for all..[or its not]..

thus laud/grayhams decisions..with gratitude-thank-you samsung..your concern...gives me energy..to try,reply jinnies questions..[thankyou too jinny]...

were all needed..to tell..the full/story of life

<Do you suffer from Schizophrenia?>>no..[not officially]...im open-to..other spirits visiting..and giving helpfull advice..[but just have an active-imagination...as long as;im not hurting others...or myself...it is un-important..[others judgment]

<<Dual personality.>>>..all have..a concious/unconcious persona...much like a wife/husband...[with the dominant conscious/..husband]...deciding

..the..loyal_faithfull_wife
[unconcious..takes care of the basics...[autonimous]

<<typing/change.>>.from the..'wife'..works better
the..'husband'..is too distracted

<<you changed>>..as people complain..i change
[ps the..'proper_style'..is often quoting..[cut/paste]..

<<your mental/illnesses?>>..none officially...i think-of..myself as channeling..other spirits...but no-one can prove..they even egsist..so i simply use..others_'quotes'..

[we all evolve...i just type..what appears..in my mind}

<<can you not spend/it..on life>>
jinny..jesus said:..if you follow me...you cant bring your family...
i have eternity to relax..for now i just need_to work

finding stuff..[for me][is easy...living in spirit...im not amased when a book..falls at my feet..with the very info_looking_out..at me..i will need..later in the day..[syncronicity]

<<Can you not spend-it..on children?>>..they have their own children
they know/where i live..[i dont have transport.nor income..the pension-people..wish me to get a docters certificate..[but i done that 3 times allready...so they stopped my pension

i didnt spend much/of it when i did get it

i have 2 years left of money i saved..
it costs me only 3 dollars a day to live

<<can you not spend it on plants/animals>>
i bought fish/..they are endlessly amusing

<<instead of the internet>>
i bought 12 mths internet acces
have 2 mths left..then one-under/god..dies

<<trying to prove your believes?>>
just trying to give something back..while i can

<<you are spending too much time..proving your obsessions>>>so?
i should live...my life..or theirs?

<<You can write about what you believe>>
i write badly..its better to quote that others said allready....its the same message..love god love neighbour/..find the love within

<<You still haven't learned all....>>.
i know..but have eternity to enjoy..
for now ..i do what i do

420 words that time, OUG. you were doing so well, too. The vast worldwide anti-OUG consoiracy is disappointed in you.

Actually, it was nearer to 450.

What i don't understand is why you are so determined to break the very simple word limit rule. You've already acknowledged that you do so deliberately and wilfully - so you're not being victimised, no matter how ell that plays with the sock-puppets and stalkers.

From where I sit, you're behaving like a rather sulky child, unwilling to accept that rules apply to them. With respect, that also sounds like it may be at the root of all your problems expressed here.

Do yourself a favour - get the chip off your shoulder and comply with the rulesa and you'll find that people are remarkably tolerant and willing to assist. You don't want that though, do you? You like pretending to be a victim, don't you? After all, it gives you lots of chance to pretend to be piously concerned for the spiritual welfare of someone who would victimise such a lovely person as you, doesn't it?

What a fraud!

i can only accept the..postcount....not how_you..determine words

jinny did you know,..angels ask questions

quote..<<Would you like to ask me any questions?’
“‘How is it,’I asked,‘that everything looks so solid here,
and,..above all,..how is it I have a body?..I thought I was a spirit.’

“He...‘What do all human-beings consist of?’
“H.J.L...Body and soul...[include life-energy]

“He.‘How would a scientist define these?’
“H.J.L...Matter and force.[and energy]

“He...‘Good.
What happens to the matter when you die?
Is it destroyed?’

“H.J.L...Matter can’t be destroyed.
It merely changes its form...My body will rot and
become earth,..and plants grow out of it.

“He...‘What of the force..which made that body act?’
“H.J.L...It has come here.
It is the spirit...It,too,..cannot perish.

“He...‘Neither the matter..nor the force perish.
Yet is the body..on the earth the same..as when you lived?’

“H.J.L...No.

“He...‘What makes it different?
If you were to look at it..now,wherein would it chiefly differ?’

“H.J.L...Well,..it would be losing its old shape.
Its..form would be different.

“He...‘The form would have gone.
If neither..the matter..nor the force..perish,
what happens to the form?..Can that perish?’
“H.J.L...I do not see why not.

“He...‘What of the form..of the thoughts which haunt you?
Their form has not perished.

Why,then,..should your form perish..if theirs remains?’

“H.J.L...Yes;..but I still exist
I..who thought those forms,..so someone must have thought..of me before I existed..if I am like my thoughts.

For I thought of them,..and so they came into existence.

“He...‘Precisely...Someone must have thought of you.
That person is God.

He created..you by thought,and so,too,
you create things by thought

What lessons have you learnt?’
“H.J.L...That form,..like matter and force,..does not perish.

Secondly,..that,..as God..created me by thinking of me,
so I create forms..[energy]..by thinking of them.

“He...‘And what answer can you deduce to your questions from these facts?’

“H.J.L...I suppose all that I see are forms,
and being a form myself,..they seem as solid as myself.

But why do I seem solid?
“He...‘How could you seem otherwise....continued..[maybe]..2 hours]

Don't sweat the small stuff, Antiseptic.

What really puzzles me is why you get apoplectic about such a tiny issue. It isn't as if oug is doing you any harm.

Do you have an explanation?

Not for me, you understand, I'm really not interested.

But for yourself.

Pericles:"What really puzzles me is why you get apoplectic about such a tiny issue"

Apoplectic? Puhleaze...

OUG deliberately breaks the rules and tries to pretend that someone pointing out his breach is victimising him. That irritates me.

next bit here
http://bigthink.com/ideas/24154
last post

“Nothing exists..on earth...
which has not..its counter-part..here.

We see this in the trees and birds and buildings,..
as also..in many other things.

But all things here..lack crude-matter.”

“H.J.L...‘But do..evil thoughts..here
influence others..to/do..evil?’

“He. ..When on earth..did you never notice..that two men,or even more,...each working/independently*,..even separated from each other/by thousands of miles,..at the same*..moment...make the same..discovery?’

“H.J.L...‘Yes,..often,..
but we/put it down to coincidence.

“He...‘There is no such thing as coincidence.

That word is merely..a cloak employed/by men...
to disguise the fact..that they are ignorant of
some...of the fundamental-laws of..God.’

“‘Again..have you never seen;how an idea will continue for ages to influence/mankind,..though all...who knew its origin..have passed away?’

‘Have you never seen/how..such an idea,..though forgotten in its original home,..will_yet..reappear somewhere else...

without any known connection..having taken place?’

“H.J.L.....Then,..once created,...a thought/may go on creating...fresh thoughts?

“He...‘Yes;....but only such ...as relate..to it.

It could-not..create a fresh thought*..on an entirely different subject.’

“H.J.L...But a man can.

Why,..then,..is it different?

He may..at one-time create..a cruel-thought..which will go-on..influencing others.....to do cruel deeds,..

yet at the next moment..he/may....create a thought of kindness.....which others will develop into much...that is good.

Why/this....difference?

“He...‘Of what_does..a man consist?’
“H.J.L....Matter,..form,..force...[body/soul/spirit]

“He...‘Of what does a thought,..once created*..,consist?’
“H.J.L...I suppose..form only.

“He...‘You are answered.’
“H.J.L...Ah,..then it is...the presence..of what you call force.

What is force?
“He. ..‘Some say force..is God,and some that force..and matter are God,

and some that..force and matter/are the same,
and it is this ..that is God....

Can man create either?’

“H.J.L...I suppose he..creates only forms.
“He...‘Are you not..,then,.. answered?’

“H.J.L...I don’t see quite/how..it answers my original question,..namely,...why we can/create..variant-thoughts..when our own thoughts..cannot.?’

“He...‘God creates you;..you create your thought:
your thought influences others.’

“Your thought’s action..is bounded by/..the thought..that created it;
your actions are/bounded...by the force..which actuates you.

God is bounded by nothing.
“H.J.L...I see it all.

I cannot think about_that.....of which I have no knowledge. ..

But God..is knowledge...“He...‘God is all..in all"..

You have l-earnt..your first lessons...

OUG, I disagree with just about everything you write but good on you for ignoring antiseptic. He's just a baiter, and you're not taking the bait. More power to you.

FOR MOST...its death...WHERE is thy sting
[or crossing-over]

what exactly..takes place at the moment of separation,
the sensations..experienced by the passing soul.

The writers of religious text-books tell us nothing of
such things...for one very simple reason—they do not know.

The physical body many times appeared to be suffering acutely,
either from actual pain or through laboured or restricted breathing.

To this extent such passing..had all the appearance of being extremely painful.

Was this really so?—was a question I had often asked myself.

Whatever was the true answer..I could never really believe
that the actual physical process of..“dying”..was a painful one,..notwithstanding that it appeared so.

The answer to my question..I knew I would have..one day,..
and I always hoped that at least..my passing would not be violent,..whatever else it might be.

My hopes were fulfilled...My end was not violent,
but it was laboured,..as were so many..that I had witnessed.

I had a presentiment..that my days on earth were drawing to a close
only a short while before my passing...There was a heaviness of the mind,..something akin to drowsiness,..as I lay in my bed.

Many times I had a feeling of floating away..and of gently returning.
Doubtless..during such periods..those who were concerned with my physical welfare..were under the impression that,..if I had not actually passed,.I was sinking rapidly.

During such lucid intervals that I had,.I endured no feelings of physical discomfort...I could..see and hear..what was going on around me,..and I could “sense”..the mental distress that my condition was occasioning.

And yet..I had the sensation of..the most extraordinary exhilaration of the mind...I knew for certain..that my time had come to pass on,..
and I was full of eagerness..to be gone.

I had no fear,..no misgivings,..no doubts,..no regrets—
so far—at thus leaving the earth world.

(My regrets were to come later,
but of these I shall speak..in due course.)

All that I wanted..was to be away.

I suddenly felt a great urge..to rise up..
I had no..physical-feeling..whatever,......

..in the same way..that physical feeling..is absent during a dream,..but I was mentally alert..

however much..my body seemed to contradict..such a condition.

Immediately I had this distinct..prompting to rise,
I found that..I was actually doing so..

I then discovered..that those around my bed..did-not..perceive
what I was doing,..since they made no effort..to come to my assistance,..nor did they try..in any way to hinder me.

Turning,..I then beheld..what had taken place.

I saw my physical-body..lying lifeless upon its bed,..
but here was I,..the real I..,..alive..and well...

For a minute or two I remained gazing,..and the thought
of what to do next..entered my head,..but help was close at hand.

I could still see the room..quite clearly around me,..but there was a certain mistiness/..about it..as though it were filled with smoke/very evenly distributed.

I looked down..at myself..wondering what I was wearing,..for I had obviously risen..from a bed of sickness..and was therefore..in no condition to move very far..from my surroundings.

I was surprised..to find that I had on my usual-attire,
such as I wore..when moving..about my own house.

I thought to myself,..what other clothes..should I expect to be wearing?

Surely not some sort-of..diaphanous robe?
Such costume..as-is..usually associated with the conventional/idea..of
an angel,..and..I had no need..to assure myself..that I was not that!

Such knowledge of the spirit-world..as I had been able to glean
from my own experiences..instantly came to my aid.

I knew at once..of the alteration..that had taken place in my condition;..I knew,..in other words,..that I had “died”.

I knew,too,..that I was alive,..
that I had shaken off my last illness
sufficiently..to be able to stand upright..and look about me.

At no time..was I in any mental distress,..

but I was full of wonder..at what was to happen next,..
for here I was,..in full possession of all my faculties,
and,..indeed, feeling..“physically”..as I had never felt before.

Although this has taken..some-time..in the telling,
in order that I might give you..as much detail as possible,

the whole process..must have taken
but a few minutes..of earth time.

the word judged..is misused.

It implies..that someone outside ourselves..judges us.
This is not so;..we stand self-condemned.

Our spirit..cannot rise to higher realms..than those..for which it has fitted itself.

There is no necessity..to enforce any law,..for ALL law's are..self-acting.

I shall make this point plain..if I answer..your question.

The difference lies in this.

Suppose a complete materialist,..one who..neither believes..in God
nor..in a future life,..and one who does his best to dissuade others..
from believing..in these essentials.

This man..may be a real philanthropist,..actuated by a noble-desire..to promote the material well-being..of his fellow-men...

This man dies.

How can he..come..even to the realm of half-belief?
His spiritual body..has never been developed.
He could not..bear the light...

[it burns..as like fire..those/bodies..of grosser astral-matter]..

He must develop..his spiritual body..and lose the materialistic-ideas[forms].. before he can possibly come to us...

No hard judge..dooms him..to Hell.
He goes there naturally of his own accord...[Like attracts like].

His lack of faith..bars him..out from..all realms..
in which faith..is..an essential-element..of existence.

“He goes therefore..to division five..of Hell;..but,..though there was no love of God,..

there was love-of..his fellow-men,and this will save him..from sinking lower..

and help him to..desire to..rise.

“Once the desire..to progress..in spiritual matters does appear,
that progress will/..probably..be sure and continuous;

but unfortunately..the materialistic mind..remains/materialistic..after death.

Often it denies that it is dead,..and considers
its psychic or its..spiritual body
to be..a physical body,..

so that he reasons..it..is still alive..on earth.

Even when..he realizes..it has passed through death,he may still deny,,there is a God..and refuse to listen to any..who could teach him.

Thus it/..his body..and thus his-spirit..will remain in Hell.

“Nevertheless..the number of good materialists..is far smaller than most people would suppose...Even on earth..many a man who outwardly poses as a materialist..in his heart of hearts..really believes..and thus..comes to our realm...

as he has...rightfully earned..
[god knows/that..in our hearts]..

“Further,..after death..such a man usually remains..[for a considerable time]..in his psychic-body,..[soul-body../'astral-shell'..

and the conditions of life..on that plane..(i.e. the astral)..soon convinces most men..of some at least some..of the most elementary spiritual truths.

“While on the subject..of the psychic body,..let me draw your attention..to the fact that/..you..have misunderstood..the seventh plane.

You have understood it..as the earth..
on which you are now living.”

“It is really..the earth-plane,..and can be separated broadly
into the division..of the incarnate..and*..of the discarnate spirits...

[all the spheres overlap..in their zones..of affect;..in-fluence..]

“The former are..of course yourselves,..the latter..the earth-bound/spitits*,and also a crowd of..other organisms,..such as elementals,..

as well as empty psychic-bodies..[astral shells]..,and so forth.

The..'dead'-man..first passes..through this stage,
and only when he has dropped..his ego/attatchment..to/with..his psychic-body..can his true..spiritual-body..enter..the sixth plane,..or even..decend into Hell.

“I was..but a brief space..[no measure of time]..in it,..
and must have dropped..my psychic body..
almost before I..realized I had one.

I believe it took place..as soon as the bedroom..
gave way..to this beautiful scenery.

“The officer,..however,..spent a long time..in the psychic-body,
and has a very clear..recollection..of dropping it...

[as its..'sins'..were..'washed-away'
..by his acts of..redemtion]..

“I hope..I have now made plain..
the relation between..faith and conduct

re-energised..[via music..karen/carpenter..&..peggy/lee]

I felt..that I wanted to tell..those I had seen
what the real conditions..over here..were like,
partly because..I saw one or two..were grieving,

but more because..they all..either did not believe..in a future life at all,had evidently..wrong_ideas..as to what it was like..over here.

No sooner had the idea,..come to me,..“My guide began to speak.
‘You wish to communicate with those still living?
Why should you wish to speak to them?

They will all come to us..some day,..and then they will have_to learn...on earth..I neglected these things,..and now would make some little amends’

“‘This is a good reason,..and truly they do need much light,
and by helping them..you will help yourself.

“‘How can I do it?..’I said.
“‘That you must find out for yourself.

We tell nothing here...Each soul..must strive to/answer..his own questions,..and if he really strives..he will succeed.’

“Soon I found myself..without my guide..among a crowd of young men. We seemed to-be..in some university town...Several of the men drifted towards me,..and,without the usual hesitation..which I should have felt on earth,

I asked what..I could do..to tell those on earth..of this life.

“One of them replied,
‘We,too,..are trying to find out..
how to do that..very/thing.

Come with us.’

Let me say here..that the dominant note..of the place
was the desire..to help others..who were already dead.

At length we found a lecturer,..as he would have been called on earth...But he did not lecture,..but asked us questions,

“When we said,..‘How can we tell..those still living?’
“He replied,..’How do you do..anything..here?’

“‘By thinking about/it.’
“‘You are answered.’

“‘We think then,’..I said,
‘that we wish to communicate..with the living.’

“‘Naturally;..how otherwise?’
“‘And do we think of one person or many?’
“‘Which you please,..

but which is easier—to think of..one person..or many persons’
“‘One’..we all cried together.
“‘Are there any other questions’..he asked?

“We had none..then,..

...so we went together to a sort of private study [sphere]
a joinder of comminality...simultude..[forming a society/based on common purpose...just klike any spirit must to commune with this realm]

of course vile-minds find cooperation much more difficult
as they USUALLy have divide adgendas...thus cant 'get-it-together'..lol..to achieve anything..lol

but back to quote
and there..all concentrated..our thoughts
on this great matter.

It sounds..very simple to say..‘think of/something,’
but in practice..we found it terribly hard-to..concentrate..
on one sole thought*...

Other ideas..would come floating in...
as real..[to us]..as if truelly..origonally..[real]

We seemed to try..this for weeks and weeks,..
but at length..one man..did get through.

“This encouraged us.

Another..who had been trying..for some time..said,
‘I wonder if the man..I am thinking about..is not receptive.’

“This started..a long discussion,..[long in spiritual terms...by our measure it would be called ..'a blik of the eye']

and we all agreed..[aint concenus powerfull]..that probably it would be easier to..get in touch..with those..who were not too materialistic....'

[sounds obvious in hindsight..thus the easy concensus]...
[the first people..[trible people]..PUT high value
upon concensus..

its a shame govt hasnt made it law

''So,..as we could_not..always tell
who were the most materialistic,
we decided to make such a list,

..and work through them by degrees.

You know the rest.

At length I got you...That night
I seemed specially drawn/towards earth,
[simultude of thought...joining the forms]
similtude of mind [reason/purpose]...co-operation..get it?

once started,..things went easier...

Finally,..I met P.,..who told me..how to
try 'automatic-writing'...

ALLWAYS DONE..IN UNION..[in groups.of like serrvice minded individuals acting in comkmon purpose]

to watch for..vile..
[negative/hurtfull/injurouse]....in-fluence's
seeking to end coorperation..[usually because of irrational FEAR]

As it has been said - - - -
Only is the word as we know it
but alas
the condominium of thoughtlessness compounds compunction
but only (*^% of the masses

FINALLY
we wait with breathlessness
for it is extant

but only for now
while insuperable we can impend
the
uprising of the devil incarnate
in the recessional ambiguity

of

wait for it

the Targum
believe it or not
so let us add flummery to the equinox of
recess within

- - - - - -
= = =

surely we know this to be truth
in anguishment with benign hypersycrisity
which infects us all
within
without but always

He has spoken
He, the He of enlightenment
of simplicity empowered mesmerisms of metonymy
it so clear
so obvious
so

easy

the reigns of authority, the snood is worn
Scotland The Brave
Socratic imperatives, superlative in
a
digest of tranquility
sent to warn us all of the
impending undulate of
invasion and inequity scorned
of digest and equinox affirmation
brought upon by
the devil incarnate
himself

by 134 =56 lost forever
in the howling tides of time.

So there ya go folks. THAT'S how I would change the world. I'm glad to have cleared it up.

thank lulu..for:..this_one..{'i started the joke"}..by the beegees

the funeral-service

...It is strange..that so many Christians..devote all their attention to the body,..which knows..and cares nothing/about what is going on,..{at death}..

and entirely neglect the spirit..which is often..in great need of help...

“I was going through one of those terrible days..(1)..when my former deeds/works..crowded upon me..on every side.

1..[of course they-are..not days,..but I know..no other name..to give them;..times/..events/periods/..learning-stages..]

These..‘days’..[periods]..come on me even still now.;..they are part of my punishment..[redemtion].process,..and are..called..to enable me to redeem...them..

[balance karmic discord..within my soul...]

I,..of course,..could not go to school..
{this is re-flection time]..,
and was there-by..overwhelmed..with misery,..
[self pity..{no too strong}..self flagulation...
[let it go...move-on]..guilt?..

when,..lo!..a bright flame..seemed to force its way*..
through my nightmare visions..and dissolve*..them.

Slowly..in their place..there came a vision..of a church with an altar..on which were candles and a cross,..and before it was a priest.

then/the whole church,..not merely the side chapel,..was full of worshippers..[de-ceased..as i]..

who had come from..our side.

“No words of mine..can express the joy..that this sight filled me with.

Firstly,..I rejoiced..that there were at least..some on earth
who really cared..and believed enough to pray for me,..and the thought..and the words..of the service filled me..with a wonderful peace.

“But even..beyond this..came the inspiring thought..that hundreds of others..had come here..before me,..

had possibly trodden..the same hard road..as I was treading,..
were interested..in my progress..and prayed for assistances to be.

O Jack,..I never knew..how_much_good..might be hidden
in that wonderful/contradictory..old national church..of ours!

Tennyson must/have..received some inspiration..from this side
when he retained..in his Morte d’Arthur..those closing lines of Malory,..clean contradictory..as they must have been..to the ideas of the Mid-Victorians

’Pray for my soul...’...

You know the rest,..don’t you?”

by the by....'animals survive..in this state,”..

“This leads me to try..and fix
the terms..I use..for our divisions here.

I am afraid they have-been..a little incoherent.
I will therefore explain:

“Plane=..the whole..of this realm[of the spiritual body].
“Realm=the divisions..of this plane,..e.g..the realm of half-belief.

“Division=..the divisions..[of each realm],..
e.g.the schools..or the divisions..of Hell.

“Sub-divisions= the splitting up..of the divisions..
as among the sects..in the realm of..belief/..without acts,..e.g...the Roman Catholics..or Baptists.

“Spheres=..the groups into which..we drift..

I'm sorry, i've been busy and not been able to spend time here.

AS: Try to understand that UOG had gone through a lot in life and he wants to express. It is his right as a human to do that. If Mr Moderator thinks he is out of hand, UOG will get banned again, stop giving him such a hard time will you, PLEASE?

Samsung: Thank you.

UOG: I wish i had more time to read what you write.. but i don't. I have to big a job to do right now apart from living in reality. Please, wake up, stop looking back at ur past.. let it go.. let the pain go. U still have your life. Do good, live life, stop obsessing on your theories in life. You spend too much time on that and it doesn't help enough.

Accept the things you can't change, and work hard to make a difference to the things you can change. You have to change yourself and not talk about death. Please.. hang in there... things change.. they always do. I can help you.. please... look after yourself, not the internet.. look after yourself first. Try to not look at every in a negative view. You need to get better in order to make a difference.

So bodoh dis forum.. "!" aso cannot put.. wat la.. wasting my time here. Rules rules rules.. no life or wat dis ppl? bodoh betul! nau chien pu sen ching ping tau pan xe... ze meh zhe yang zhi...

thanks for your input samsung..but will continue my quote

[where was..your quote from?..]

'..during the times..we are having recreation.

They..[Spheres]..bring together men..in different divisions..of the same realm,
..but not those..who are..in different realms.

Moreover,..a man will sometimes be..in one sphere..
and sometimes in another,..e.g...the sphere of architecture..or music..or art/..science

infinite..'spheres'..[are often overlapping...such as french art/french architecture/french lit...overlap the french sphere's..

just as 'art'..could be..in any other..country or other-specific/..aspect's..sphere

“I had been inquiring..about the realm below..and that above,.. and suddenly a man came to me..“He told me about the divisions of Hell,and that..he had been sent..to teach the souls in the schools.

He was not allowed to go any lower,..but even that..had retarded his progress.

[but was/is..remains..effectivly..a means of redeeming..that he..helped..create in the first place..]..

He hoped,..however,..soon to be allowed to pass onto..the realm above us.

He said,..that the souls in Hell..were terribly hard to teach,
..far harder than..the worst types..[of people]..on earth,

and this..in spite of the fact..that none..had reached
the seventh division..unless..they desired*..to progress.

..‘The nearest simile..which occurs to me is,like-as..a school for mentally afflicted children..is compared to a first-class..secondary-school..[on earth].

Even that..does not show..the full difference.’

“‘The schools for the babies,..which I never entered,..correspond fairly closely to the kindergartens on earth,..though of course there..different subjects..are taught.’

“Many other things P. described to me,..But I was not long..to have the advantage of his company,..for soon after the passing-up to us of the officer,..P’s..guide took him away..for his final_preparations..for his own passing-on..into the next realm...

[preparing him for his graduation..[2de death]..and the upcomming..disolving..{disolution}..

of his present body-form....[soul body]..

that..he used..in this realm..
[his..new light-body..awaits..his..3rd re-birth]

my guide..took me to see the passing..up to us..of a soul from Hell

and his guide went with me,..we found it was..the officer.

“I find it hard..to make you understand..how we got there,
but suddenly..we were at the edge of Hell...

We seemed to be on a dry,barren,..rocky edge.
Behind us were..black rocks and hard,..stony ground.

The ground,..sloped up towards us..terminating at a black seething dark body..[much like shimmering..{black]..mercury]...in front of us..as it broke off abruptly...from the barren-land..upon which we stood

“Now this terrible precipice..was made far more awful..by the fact that at its edge..all light ceased.

The light seemed to become tiny particles of mist,..and at the very edge..these seemed to pile themselves up..into a great wall against the darkness.

There was no..intermingling of light and dark,..as on earth,simply this awful darkness,..which seemed as if it were a solid curtain,.or even a wall..against which the light piled itself up..but could not penetrate.

“My guide spoke..‘Go to the uttermost edge..of that rocky cliff
and stretch out your hand..into the darkness’

“I went to the edge,...My hand went into the darkness..and was immediately lost to sight...I could see my arm..as far as the part where it entered the darkness,..but beyond I could see nothing.

Nor could I feel..any sensation..in the hand,..save only at the place
where it entered the darkness...It was more than the darkness which can be felt;

it was the darkness..which destroys feeling*.

“At the part..where my arm entered the darkness..I felt a narrow band of intense cold,..numbing and yet burning.

“‘May I withdraw my arm?’..I asked my guide.
“‘Yes’

“I promptly withdrew it,..and was really thankful to find it was undamaged.

“‘Why this darkness and cold?’..I inquired...“My guide replied,..
‘The light of faith..does not exist..there,..and there is also..no love of God.

“‘As you are now..a spirit,..you need the spiritual light..and warmth,..just as on earth..you needed physical warmth and light.’

“Slowly the wall of darkness..began to sway to and fro...As it advanced towards the light..in one place..it receded in ..at another,..

the light..expressed/expelled..out

There was no interpenetration,..
simply an undulating line..instead of a straight one.

As this movement..grew more and more violent..I sprang back from the cliff,..fearing that

a fold of darkness might engulf me...“But my guide said,..‘stand firm...That darkness cannot reach us;..there is too much faith..here’

And so it was,..for though the folds of darkness..several times swept up..on to the land..[on either side of the spot where we were standing],..it never engulfed us,..and we were able to realize..the awful depth..of the precipice,..which seemed almost unscaleable.

But the light gave comparatively little illumination.

“Suddenly..out of the darkness beneath us..a ball of light began to emerge,..and,..having rapidly risen,..we saw it was a glorious spirit of light.

As he rose from the depths..the darkness seemed to fall from off him,..to use a homely simile,..like water from a duck’s back.

“Having, climbed over..the edge of the cliff on to its top,..he lay down and stretched his arm down..into the darkness...It vanished up to the shoulder;..but gradually he withdrew it,..and soon we saw his hand..grasped that of another.

The newcomer’s hand was not bright and shining like his,..but dark and dirty,..with a pallid,..unhealthy tinge.

“Soon there struggled up beside him,..slowly and painfully,..a most miserable subject.

His eyes were covered..with a kind of bandage...He fell to the ground beside his guide,who rose to his feet..and gently helped him to rise.

“The newcomer wore a dark grey ragged garment,..which was covered with stains,./.and seemed to have,..as it were,..patches of darkness/still clinging to it.

His hands and face..were also stained and dirty.

“‘Oh, this terrible light,’..he moaned...‘I can see it..even through this bandage’(To us..it was a very murky light,..most like that seen in a London-fog.)

“‘How foul his clothes are!’..I said to P.

“‘To us,..yes;..but..if he could see them..they would..to him appear unwontedly clean,’

said P...‘I expect..to you..your clothes appear quite clean?’
“‘Yes’I replied.

“‘Well,..I can see..many stains on them,.and..I have no doubt..
to..my guide..mine also appear foul.’

“I felt very humbled..by this remark..and remained silent...

SO LETS LOOK..AT THIS emergance..FROM hell..from the other_side

He Leaves the Astral..{hell}..for the Spirit Plane

he said..to,the officer..pray..

[officers_words]..“I did so,..and repeated the Lord’s/Prayer...“As I did this..a great weight..seemed to crush me down.. My surroundings began to..blur and quiver.

The astral/landscape...

became..like a painted canvas,..and then grew thin...then It split and rent..in a thousand fragments,..and dissolved into tatters of mist.

These seemed to be whirled away..as if by a strong wind,..but I felt no breeze...“The weight grew more and more heavy...I seemed to be enclosed..as-in..a coffin of lead.

At length..I could bear it no longer,..and shrieked out..to my guide

‘Help me,..for God’s sake,..to get clear of this weight.’

“He held out his hand to me,..and I sprang towards it,
and,..to my astonishment,..i found myself free of the weight.

“Then my astral shell..was caught..by the same wind..which was shattering the landscape...It whirled and twisted..and grew flimsy...Then it TOO.. crumbled and whirled..out of sight.

“The mists drifted..quickly away..and I saw a beautiful landscape,..the type of..landscape familiar to you..by now...

I had reached..the plane of the spiritual body.

I had hardly time to realize it before,..on every side,..visions of my former life..came crowding upon me..in a wild chaos,..like a hideous nightmare..from which I could not escape...[even here]

“I could not see my guide,..and called desperately to him,.and a voice answered..Pray.

“Then I prayed,..and as I did so..the visions ceased to be chaos,..and took on a regular sequence...From my earliest childhood..up to the hour of my death..

every act and thought were there shown..as like a little drama..enacted again and again.

Not only the evil,..but also the good.”
Here H.J.L...intervened...the oficers testimony

“The rest was practically the same as my own experience,..so we won’t go over it again...just tell Jack..about your spiritual body.”

‘i didnt know Why I have..such a tiny spiritual body?’

“He answered..‘Because you did so little..to develop your spiritual-nature on earth.

Indeed,..but for your work..on the astral plane..
you could not even/have come to the spiritual plane..yet.’

“That’s the worst of it,..that’s why I’m making such slow progress,..
that and the fact..that I still bother..about earth things too much.”

“Well,..Jack,say goodbye to Mr. A.,..for you must be going now,..and you won’t see him again..for some little time,..as he’s done his share here..[in this realm]..for the time being.”

So we shook hands,..and almost immediately afterwards..I..{the medium}{JW}...seemed to lose consciousness...as the scene faded..ok jinny/done...lol

jinny/quote..<<UOG:..Please,stop looking-back..at ur past..>>

thanks..for your sincere_concern..jinny
this is simply..my job....and i needed to post..that.i have now posted

its not..'my'..past..[..you should know by..the mostly clear-writing..its a quote.;.[plus some bits..i added..knowing the other..[not quoted bits..of the story]..[gone west...and the officer]..

so its not..my story/..only what i believe..contains truths

<<let the pain go.>>...jinny..know i have no pain

im much like/you in this matter...im in control..of my body..[it dosnt tell me..what to feel]

<<U still have..your life.>>this 'job'..is my life..jinny
if i wasnt posting..i have no other reason..to egsist..[online]

im not into..much-else..[been there done that ..AND bought..the tshirt]..like i said before..this is what..i chose..to be doing

ok i cook/smoke..breed fish..read..do house work..etc
but this..i enjoy sharing..[and if people dont get it/thats their loss]

<<Do good,>>..what better..to be doing than helping..time poor people..save/reading..the whole book...or the whole bible...

i can give them a thumbnail scetch..then if..they read it..they read with open eyes...ok i dont get paid..but its my joy to help..as best i can

<<live life>>.i done that..lived over 50 years of it
not much i havnt done..except jump-out of a plane..or those other adrenolin junkie-type persuits,..and im not into..that stuff anyhow

<<stop obsessing..on your/theories..in life.>>jinny..i read others post's...and dont read..others posts..

WE ALL GOT THAT CHOICE...

i couldnt care less..if no one reads a word...whats important is i tried...they chose..not to hear..[all i can do..is what i do]

<<You spend too_much-time..on that>>>..sounds like my family..[what you want to save the world for..dad.../because you lot..are in it..too]

<and it doesn't help.>..it certainly dosnt..help too much/either

<<Accept the things..you can't change,>>>

oh jinny if only you knew..of my succes's..in bringing change...but then also..the burden

i cant not do nuthing
can you not..work?
[same/same]

<<You have to..change yourself>>
fight who i am..?..[become what others..WANT me to be?]

lol..who's living..this life...[me?]

<<and not talk..about death.>>..

there is no death jinny
thats what..im trying to explain

jinny your a dear...you care for everyone...
im hanging in..i know things change...im just being me

you have been so kind allready..
you help in just being who you are...thanks for being you

love allways
johan

Yohan... before i leave... I know how important it is to you to do your online work. I know you are trying to make others see what you see.. The fact is most people do not want to see.

It is not your job or purpose with the life you have been gifted with to do this. You priority is you. You and only you. I am sad that your satisfaction in live comes from spending so much time on the internet writing about your beliefs.

Your fishes... get more fishes. spend more time with them. less time thinking about the problems of the world. I can see you are wanting to make a difference..

Our path was already set for us before we were born. We all serve a purpose.. it will make a difference when we allow nature to take its course. If it was meant to be, it will happen.

Take care my dear friend. You are special.. very special.. never forget that.

SIgn OUT! yey! I'm a jinny in a bottle :P

ok jinny..thanks for your comments
[by the way...here in OZZZZ..
we have 8 hours work..[8 hours play...8 hours sleep]

in the spirit world the same..pro-portions are observed..

anyhow i done my leasure..and sleep..
thus now head back to work...great talking with you

the importance of form and fun-ction..
in our life we shall see/know..interact with many forms
in fact during our lives..we accumulate many memories{visulalisations]

it is these..that form the basis of our next reality
if we seen it/lived it..its because someone caused it..[thunk it first]

oh before i go there

samsung..i used your post as an egsample
in grayhams olo improvements topic

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11090&page=0

i tried to reason..[expand on]..what i thought you were trying to say

i think it was only meant to be a gentle-poke..
at me for..the preceeding post..that i admit was more messy than usual

[i should have edited out the bit about animals]
and the beginning with the music/referances
which...i used to get the energy to post

anyhow...researching your reply gave me some good info
even if only your tongue in my cheek

i will quote next time
thanks for your patience all

OH here is a bit..i cut out-of..my last reply to jinny

<<Please..hang in there...things change.. they always do>>..

oh jinny your a dear...you care for everyone...
im hanging in..i know things change...im just being me

<<I can help you..>>jinny you have been so kind allready..
you help in just being who you are...thanks for being you

<<please...look after yourself>>

i do jinny,..i look after me,then give the rest..to others...in the way i do/it...if thats not good enough..

its still all i have to give..[the left-overs]

<<Try to not look at everything..in a negative view.>>>

i dont judge positive/negative..things are as they are...i just re-act if things arnt as good..as they can be

[many people FEAR death..obsess about their fears..for no good reason..[my reason is..helping them..to end their fear's]

<<You need to get better..>>
i can only try..to do better

you cant..'get'..bet-ter...
i dont bet

love allways
johan

here is my P-leisure

lets move to the next realm...take the issue of clothing..[as egsample]...in this life..and the next

we have our memories..to help make their form..the only difference that thought-form created..clothing..[dosnt wear out]...in fact stays as clean..as the day we thunk them..into being

if we wish..other..'clothing'..its as easy as thinking new ones..

if we seek..any change..its as easy as thinking it..
[i know it..sounds insane]...now

so move on to..flowers...ie..gods/thought-forms
say someone picked..the spiritual flowers...
they remain..as god...thought them into being

even if one shredded one..to bits..the thought..that gave them their form/function..ensures..it would immediatly resume form..and function..

just as god intended

[side note...god creates flowers..as his reward...thus our spirit homes..are abounding with them..they remind us..of every good helpfull thought/deed..we ever did

there is more to it..of course...

to smell/hold look at the said flower..gives one a full complete reason..for its being...further they give energy/revitalise..those admiring or smelling them

anyhow..i have a further/quote..
[as clearly..no further questions..to reply are in mind]..

[after officer..emerged into..the twilight relm]

I gather..from the officer,..who arrived a short-time later..(it seemed/like a few days),that it took him..[he had had to cross a kind of stony desert..which mounted up to a..range of hills].

When he had climbed..to the crest of these,..he found they sloped down but slightly..towards a plain,..that plain was where we dwell.

“While crossing..this plain,.he was haunted
by the most awful visions..of his former evil-life,..similar to,..but far more intense..and terrible than,..those I saw and suffered from.

His/guide..came to him but rarely,..and though{to us}we seemed to have parted..from him but a..few days,as it were,..to him it seemed years.

The visions..haunt him..even as they do me,but far more fiercely,..and as yet..they are still in the nightmare-state..which I described as..assailing me..at first.

They have not yet sorted themselves out,..as they did for me...He has,therefore,..of course..not yet started going to school.

In short,..he is only just..in our realm.

“This now..enables you to understand..the spiritual condition..of the three persons..who are trying to communicate with you..from here.

I feel that you cannot..realize how intense..all these experiences are...For example,..the awful horror/..of that darkness..

Dear OUG,

I just dropped by to find a rich bounty of your postings. Always a delight to read. There is a real brilliance in what you write and the word play; multi level meanings and insights are very post-modern in style.

With due respect to Jinny (hiya Jinny) who seems a kind person; I hope you don't stop writing. I read your words with great interest. Not always agreement; but you provide wonderfully complex ideas that are a pleasure to ponder.

I sense your goodness; please don't change.

pynch

Hey Pynch, did ya read my brilliant contribution on page 20? OUG is my hero, and I'm even starting to write like him.

KEY-bit...{‘Here there is no standing still...You must progress either upwards..or downwards,..and this journey must*..be taken...

But fear not,.am I not with you?}

ok..now to put it..into context/QUOTE<<“My guide said,..’It is well{TIME}..that you should go to see..the work in the schools’<in hell}{in other words its temptation time/see..key note}

“Next moment..we were standing on..the bare rocky ground,{at hels margins}..as real..to us..as the earthworld is to you.

Again before us..rose that terrible wall/of darkness;..but there was this difference —..that at one place..a rough-track..seemed to be worn away..which led..into the darkness.

“‘How was it,’..I inquired,..‘that the officer..did not come out by this route?..It is far easier than the way by which he emerged.’

“‘The road..into Hell..is always easy,’..my guide replied,..‘the road..out of Hell..is always hard...This you should surely know.’

“‘Shall..we..have to climb..up that awful precipice?’

“‘No,..we go down into Hell,..but do not become..part of..Hell.
Hell..is a state,..not a place,..and thus,..though we perceive others..in that state,

and perceive..also the evil atmosphere..they draw around them,
we do not..ourselves..partake/of that state.

In this world,..where thoughts and forms..are as real as the physical is on the earth,..we can only..'feel'..the evil effects/of Hell..by becoming part of it...{joining into the delusions in it}

That,..unfortunately,..is possible.

Many-a soul..who has come here..with the desire
to do good..has fallen..and become a part of Hell,
just as on earth..men who go to work among the fallen,..alas!..may be led astray..by those whom they come to save.

If that should happen..to you,..then you would be unable to
return..by this road,..and would have to climb up..the precipice!

447 words..ok two posts

please no love...everything has its karmic balance

back to work

“I became afraid and cried,..‘Don’t go.
Let me not risk it...I am safe where I am.’

“But..he answered,..‘Here there is no standing still.
You must progress..either upwards..or downwards,
and this journey must be taken.

But fear not,..am I not with you?

Moreover,..spirits do not fall{far}..in this division..of Hell.
Here..the worst is past...It is when they go down to the lower divisions of Hell..that the danger arises’

“Thus encouraged,..we began to descend the path,
and the dread darkness..closed over us.

“For a moment I felt appalled,..but the firm grip..of my guide’s hand gave me strength and encouragement...Then I began to perceive that from him,..and to a lesser extent from me,..there flowed out..a kind of light..{god with-in...}

{only obsured..by the gross acumulations..of vile works staining..ALL our souls..}..which enabled us..to proceed along the path,..though
we{i}..were unable to see much..on either side at any distance.

“Suddenly we{i}..were aware..of a great building..set right across our path,..and we found..that the road we were walking upon..ran under a doorway into it.

There was no way round it,..for on either side I found..the walls of rock towered up and were absolutely unscaleable..{from either side}..this is a point WE must all pass by..to reach..the light}

noting...there are many..of these..exits from hell

[this/egsample..is a christian one]

Quote:..we passed..{from the darkness}..into a covered/courtyard.

“What a dazzling light!..After the awful darkness..through_which we had passed,..I felt dazed for a moment,..but soon I was able to realize everything...{arround me}

“Around me..were tall-buildings..on four sides,..rather like a great college quadrangle,..except that it was much higher..and there was a roof..instead of open sky...

There appeared to be several stories,..for there were several rows of windows,..and/from..every-one of these..a soft light shone.

Some light,..too,seemed to come..from the building itself:
I mean..from its very walls.

“Then I noticed..a spirit/standing by the door...I knew at once that he was..of the same..nature..as I myself,..though more advanced:

I mean..he was not like my guide..who is far above me.
“I therefore inquired..of him..‘What is this building?’

“He replied,..‘It is a house of refuge,.a school..and a guard-house{combined.}..One might call it..“a missionary clearing/house.”..To us{come down..from the realms above}..

to help those..who desire to help..the unfortunate beings..in Hell.

Back to us..come those messengers..of Hope
who have been..down to Hell.

To us..come all those who,..having begun to progress,..need helping upwards;..and,finally,..hither come/those..who need..only to be taught,..that they may leave Hell..altogether..for the realm above.

“‘Besides these duties,..we also bar the way,.so that none..of the inhabitants of Hell..may attempt to reach/the realm above..save by the hard_path..which is ordained for them...[according as to their works}

The road you have trod..is for those beings/..in that realm..who desire to do good..in Hell,..or such as you,..who are brought here..by their guides..to enable them to learn*..about Hell.{and test..if we are tempted..prior to accending..more-fully..into the light]

There are..other*{for other beliefs}..rest-houses..scattered along the paths..which lead..out of Hell,..to which those who desire to progress may go,..but this is..the great/clearing house,..or perhaps I might call it..the base of supplies..for a large number of these houses of refuge.

‘This house..sends out men..to relieve those..in charge-of these..other “houses of rest,”..and also..missionaries..who try to help those..seeking to become better people..who/thus come to these houses.

{j.b.l}..You further..act..as the final..“house of rest”..for those who are..about to/attempt the climb..up the precipice.

But where do the schools come in?’

He...“‘All..in this part..have to...

HAVEto..*..pass through..the school*..before they-can..climb the precipice,..as otherwise they would be hopelessly lost..on reaching the top.

But before they can attend the school,..they have_to_be..received into the part of the building..which is the..“house of rest.”..

Here they gain spiritual-strength*..
as distinct from..spiritual knowledge*.’

“‘Just as on earth..you often have to nourish..the children’s bodies before you can teach them,*..so here we have to build up their spiritual strengt/..one might almost say..their spiritual bodies — before*..attempting to instruct them.’

“‘Compare our work..with that of some of the societies on earth..
..who rescue waifs and educate them.

If you add to that..the fact that the children..are mostly
crippled,..and also mentally afflicted,..you will get a
very fair parallel.’

“‘At times..it is almost heart-breaking,..far worse than slumming on earth...Oh,how..bitterly we blame*those who should*have..done this kind of work on earth!

A man..is much harder to convert..here.’

“‘Often..after a man’s spiritual_strength..has been developed,..we find he is not yet ready..to acquire spiritual knowledge..in the school.

He sometimes runs away{back into the dark...rejecting the loght/love..grace/mercy}..,and is only..brought back after much search and labor....[often by any means as it takes to help them find the..REQUIRED compasion for others]


Often,alas!..he sinks back..for a time into his old ways,..and returns{often}..to one of the even/lower divisions of Hell.

Others we have to send out on journeys,..and employ them in various ways..till they are ready to learn.’

“H.J.L...‘May I go..into the House of Rest..and see what it is like for myself?..‘I inquired.

“My guide replied,..‘Not yet,..but you shall..at another time...We will now enter the school...You will find it more in consonance with your previous knowledge,..as you went to..the secondary school..in the realm above.

The House/of Rest..would be..so unlike..anything of which you are as yet aware..that you would miss..many things..which would be of value.

“‘After seeing these schools,..and also those for the babes,..you will be able to appreciate things..more..when you come to visit the House of Rest.’..

“We passed through/..as we did so,..I realized that the place was a castle..as much as a college...Indeed,I found that there were no external-windows..at all,

for these would have admitted..only darkness*,..which is here more than the/absence of light.. being in itself a tangible thing.

“The only window..was one which/served..as a light to guide the wanderers outside..to this harbor of refuge.

The way this..’light’..was ’trimmed’..will astonish you.

The room into/which..it opened was the private-chapel..of the men and women..(for there were women/here)..who ministered in this place...It was distinct..from the chapel for the school..or the one/for the House of Rest.

“This window..was behind the altar,..and on earth/would have been called..the east window...It had,however,..no stained,..but merely white transparent glass.

“Before this altar..the service of the Holy Communion..was always* being offered up...No sooner was one service ended..than a new priest began a new service,..and a fresh body/of worshippers..took up the responses.

Thus ever,..there goes up prayer..for the salvation of those in Hell. Out of the east window,..no big one,..streams out the light of faith generated..by this ceaseless service of prayer,..and intercession.

“How it is in the other frontier houses,..I cannot say for certain,..but I gather that some/are in the hands of men who..on earth..held other*religious views/observances..,and in these service of intercession takes..other forms..than that I witnessed.

[mahamoudens..HEAR their call to prayer}

Like attracts like,..you see,..and my guide..naturally took me to the house./.in which I should find..the system..most in consonance with that to which..I more or less..belonged on earth.

“Similarly,..some souls..in Hell/are drawn towards salvation..by the men who belong to this house,..while others go..to those in which Mohammedanism..or Non-conformity is dominant.

{all bassiclly using..mans various senses]
“there is no bitterness here...Each house does its work,..and helps other houses/when it can...

Thus,..if a Mohammedan..or Nonconformist-missionary..were to find a man/woman..and help him/her,..if he saw that that man’s spiritual-development..would be quicker..if he went/to..the house belonging..to the church people,..he would take him/her..there.

So,too,..with the church missionaries...Moreover,..this transference of rescued..is constantly taking place...“We do-not worry..about our religious/..save the 'word'-differences..here.

They still..exist..to a limited degree,..but we know that as we mount higher..all that is false..will fade,..while..

only the truth will remain.

So we go quietly on our way.

“This light..shining from this solitary window..at the top of the building is a beacon of hope..far down into Hell...All the Houses of Rest,..even the little ones/scattered..lower down in Hell,..each has its beacon/thus kept..ever burning.

Gone West

“Having entered the building,..we passed down a passage..and through a door..into a classroom...This was filled with light from the teacher;..but what shall I say..of the pupils?

Picture the lowest,..and most degraded men..reduced to the size*..of tiny children*.

Imagine them..misshapen and idiots..for the most part,..with a low,..cunning expression..on their wizened faces...This will give you but a faint idea..of what I saw.

They were ever/trying to play..some stupid trick..or other
either on their neighbors..or on the master...In addition to him, there were..two other spirits..who stood behind the form..while he taught..from the front.

“These three were needed,..firstly, to keep the room sufficiently/light,..for from each of the..‘children’..there seemed to exude..a kind of darkness..which appeared to be burnt up/by
the light.

Further,..they were needed..to keep the pupils under control...They did this solely by a kind of hypnotic power,..by the exercise of their will..and of their loving-mentality.

If for a/moment..they relaxed their concentration,..at once several of the boys..broke-out..into disorder.

“‘This work..must be very wearying’..I said to my/guide...

[i too am weary]
so rest my self now for some lei-sure

there is hunour in all of this i must share
the mahamouds call their teachers jinn

anyhow keep the love

still giggling about..jinny in a bottle
[it has visionary illuminessance]
'i dream of jinny'
it relaxes me

got to keep a sense of humour in all this
keep the love

It is,’..he replied...‘The teachers have/to-be relieved..after a very short-spell...That is why..so large a/number..of spirits are needed..even in this single/institution.’

“‘Are the girls..taught separately?’..I inquired.
“‘Yes,..nearly always...They need women,..and these..need men.

Further,..we do not find..it wise..to let the sexes mix/much..here.

These..are not innocent/babes,..you must remember.

Though they have..the spiritual development..of children,
they have..the memories of..vicious men..and women.

In the school..for the real babes,..women almost always teach..and
tend them,..and we make practically no distinction..between the two sexes.’

“Just then..three fresh teachers/came in..and took the place..of those who were in the room..when we entered.

“We waited..for the new lesson to begin...At once a perfect pandemonium broke out,..due to the withdrawal..of one group..of mental influences,..but almost at once..the newcomers..by the simple power of their will..had reduced the rebels..into sub-mission...

“‘There is no room..for weak disciplinarians here,’..I remarked.
“‘You mean..for men of weak will...No,..and there is very little/room for them...anywhere over here.

If a soul..is weak-willed when it comes,..it has to develop..its will
power at once;..it will make no real progress..till it does.

That is one of..our most difficult/problems..in these schools.
Most of these..fallen ones..are pitiably weak-willed,..though passionate enough.’

“Then the/lesson began.

[from a course in miracles]

I have given..what I see..
all the meaning it has..for me.

I have judged..everything I look upon,..
and it is this..
and...only this..I see...

This is not..what is gods/true vision...
It is merely..an illusion..of reality..as i percieve it..to be..{for me}..

because my judgments have/been made..
on emotion..fear{within}..quite apart from...the reality..love{without}...

How could I understand..what I see..
when I have judged it..amiss?

What I see..is the projection..of my own..errors of thought...
I do not understand..what I see..because it is not understandable..for me.

There is no sense..in trying to understand error...
But there is every reason..to let it go,..and make room..for what can be seen..and be understood..and loved.

I can exchange..what I think i see now..for this
merely by..being willing to do so...

Is not this..a better choice..
than the one I made..before?

[ok that wasnt..the real lesson..just joining-in..some other thought]

The truths..their instructor/tried to teach them..were the simple, elementary,..and obvious truths..which we learn..when we are children..on earth.

To these unfortunate creatures,..however,..they seemed..terribly hard.

Patiently..he went-over..the same things..again..and again,..but many seemed/quite unable to..grasp any ideas..at all.

“‘It must take..an endless age..to teach..some of these,’..
“‘Almost endless’..he replied.

‘There are some..who have been here..for thousands*of..years..as you reckon time...
They have-even lost..their memories’..{or never..knew any better}

“‘But..what good does it/do..if they are..so hopeless.as that?’
“‘All the time’..he replied,..‘they are learning..self discipline,..and..that is much...!

Sooner..or later..they will learn..other/things.

There is always hope;..and..time—what is time?..It is an
invention of/men..on earth...which,fortunately,..has never reached here.

This is..some of the/finest..work done in this Land..of the Undying,..but it-is..very exacting work.’

“‘We will now..visit the..'girls’-class:..really,..of course,
they are..degraded-women..who..are striving..to make progress,

but they are..harder to control..than the boys.’

“As he spoke..we left/the room,..and,passing..along several-long passages,..came..to another classroom

“On entering this,..I found it was..a class of girls,..with three women-teachers;..but I had/hardly time..to take it allin..before a tremendous uproar broke-out,..and several little*girls..rushed up to me.

Now,..although..I usually like..children,*..I felt an instinctive..shrinking from..these vicious women*..in their immature Bodies...

I felt..there was nothing/really..childlike in them.

“I tried to..shake/them off,..but they clung..so close
that I thought..I should..never be able to...get away from them.

But the school-mistresses,..having by now..reduced/the others..to
order,..at length fetched away..those who were clinging to me.

“‘You see..how strong still..their old/vicious-habits are,..
and how weak..their wills.

Your entrance..has completely upset them
merely..because you are a man.’

“‘It is terrible,’..I replied...‘But how do-you..manage..to keep them here at all?..Do you do_it by force?..For their wills..are so weak that/they..cannot possibly keep..even to..the idea of progressing..for long.’

“He replied,..‘No force,..as you understand the word,..is employed,but,..at the same time,..we exert..all our in-*-fluence..to keep them..on the right path.

Their..very weakness helps/us..once we have got them here...
They find it very difficult..to make up their minds..to go away,..and so remain and learn.

Still,of course,..some do go back..to wallow in the mire.’

“I noticed..that the mistress..was unable to make much progress..owing to our presence,which distracted..the little-girls’..attention.

I was therefore..not surprised..when my guide said:
“‘We will be going...You have seen enough..now.’

you guys!! hold on... let me get off everything else so i can focus here..

I so *hearts* you all :)

You have put in so much of your time.. and you know what.. you are making a difference. At least to me you are.. and that is what is important. You, yourself, your believes, your view, your take on life. Sorry, I joined this forum for another reason.. i am very active on the internet. but not here. Too many people need help more then you people.

I am typing with a smile on my face to realize how much difference UOG has made. He is a good role model in a way i suppose. but i think he is still not getting it.. because(before i continue, UOG: why issit you can comment more then 350 words an i cannot? I have to edit mine. I know you edit yours.. but your post still comes out so long... TOO LONG! that itself is so not fair. And for that.. Karma.. had Antiseptic(who is most probably banned now thanks to his own karma) giving u problem.. which caused you, UOG, problems, because then you weren't allowed to express here. Then u went and and spent all ur energy and talent on some other website.

to be continued(because i try to always abide by rules)

continued..

UOG: sorry but i just don't have the time to read everything u write.. i had a few seconds glimpse on ur links.. but they do not matter enough to me. i have to deal with suicidal humans.. do you think i have the time? yes you have good theories. but you are repeating yourself. We already agreed on you theories.. what else are you searching for here? i don't want to be harsh on you because i know you have had it tough. Isn't it time for you to stop spending so much time on yourself and start spending time on others?

I just got stuck again for 20 mins.. becoz i talk to so many through the internet. i will try to finish up here tonight..

pynch: thank you for your words of encouragement for us.. it is very enlightening. I have been writing alot.. and documenting everything i observe.. but not on this website..

UOG still doesn't not understand that now we live in a good place.. there is always bad stuff going on.. but we can't change that as a being. Rambling on and one about a problem does not fix it.

should have..called this..the short_scroll
but for-now..lets get..a clue about..

just egsactly..when..we gain..a soul

as usual via quote..

<<Chapter XX..He Visits..the School for the Babes..Who Knew Not Faith.{as it is..known on EAR-th}..

from..go-one_WE-st..

LETTER FROM H.J.L.
March 21st,1914.

“A short time..after the visit..to-the..school of those..who are progressing,..I was taken to..the school..of the babes.

“Again I went down..a kind of..road with my guide..into the darkness,..and as before..found a building..right across it.

On entering this..I found..{again}..a roofed_courtyard,..not so high as the other one,..but much larger...

In it were all manner of trees..and flowers,..and a pretty..sparkling fountain...Here numbers of..{many}..children were playing about.

“These were far different..from those I had seen..before...[Their young*baby_faces..corresponded to..their immature bodies...

They were like earth children..for the most part,and not like those men/woman..in the form of children..whom I had seen..on my last visit to Hell.

These were they..who had never sinned..<in that their lives in this realm...were aborted}..but not*..having..any knowledge of God..or
Faith..{thus not having oppertuinity to..accep/reject,.sin..by works/deeds}..they,have to..learn of these,{here}....

and..as they learn..their little spiritual-bodies develop..until it is
time for them to pass on to..the realm of half-belief,..when they go to the secondary-schools...[Rosy Dawn is an example,..and well known to you].

“Now this school..was under the control of..Sister Maria,..who has often spoken..through you,..and as she has given you many details,..I shall not repeat them..only adding..what I consider necessary..to complete the picture.

“I should add..that I had particularly asked..to_be..taken to this school..rather than any other,..{and there are many}..as Rosy Dawn had come from it,..and also Sister Maria.

“On entering..one of several doors..which opened into the quad,..I found we were in a..kind of..crèche,..where all the immature and premature children went...to play.

“‘How soon*..may it be said..that a soul comes into existence

when a child is conceived?’..I inquired...‘It is evidently..not at birth.’..{looking at the ages-span..surrounding me}..

My guide replied,..‘Even I..cannot tell-you..the precise moment when the soul..enters the..fleshy home..which clothes it.. but it is extraordinarily early*.

{As soon as..the germ{sperm/egg}..has..definitely ceased to be..a germ..
and has begun*to..grow into a human body,..a soul enters it.

But we do not know..how God*
performs this wonder...

That is hid,..{hidden}..in the most high realm's

even from us..to whom/much..is made plain.

Of this..at least you can be sure
that long before the child..“quickens,*”..
a soul has become enshrined in it*.’

“I now directed my attention to..the scene around me,..and saw that the creche was full of..gentle,sweet-faced women..who watched over the>..little immature atoms>...{get that?]

We passed to other rooms,..and found that in each new one
the babes/forms..were more advanced..than in the last.

At length..we reached a long room..with a table down the middle.
[This was the one..you saw in the mirror,..and I gathered it was the..‘top form’..of the school...

{...from which they leave..the quickening realm...
and enter the aformentioned...education system}...

to chose..to love good...or chose to love vile...
..in everything we are each..accorded..CHOICE

how hard..is it to grasp..this?

yes its difficlt to read...is it my fault?
im just summerising..that others have..long ago revealed

its just the small_scroll...
i had to read..the long scroll's

poor me...lol

jinny.QUOTE..<<i have to deal with suicidal humans..>>>
and im summerising..STUFF THEY NEED TO KNOW..!

<<do you think i have the time?>>
ignore time jinny
time is an illusion...dont think about time
gods time is now[those calling it time[as in killing themselves..need to learn ..*TIME_OUT*...its you ned to teach them this..

im TRYING to save you time

<<yes you have good theories>>jinny..THIS IS LIFE/and death info

<<but you are repeating yourself.>>

yes it sems i do..but its IMPORTANT people...GET this

just as its important for those TRYING TO DIE
to know...this

<<We already agreed on your theories..>>
oh jinny...its more than theory
just as death is no joke

so too is KNOWING..there is no death..!
[that killing thy-self..DOSNT END IT..!
but only makes thibngs MUCH worse..!

[sorry about yelling]

<<what else are you searching for here?>>
only to do..that i need to do
help others to live..to appriciate..this life is more than some think

<<i don't want to be harsh on you>>>
oh jinny you couldnt be harsh
[im sorry you think you do]

<<because i know you have had it tough>>
but i survived
now im trying to help others survive..too
[its better everyone..thinks your nuts
than thinks your dead]

<<Isn't it time for you to stop spending so much time on yourself..and start spending time on others?>>
been there done..that..really

<<UOG still doesn't not understand
that now we live in a good place..>>
not those who succeed in dying

<<there is always bad stuff going on....but we can't change that
as a being.>>>nor can spirit...we must chose life..

[there is...no other options]

<<Rambling on and on..about a problem does not fix it.>>

agreed...lets just help others..to see a bigger picture
see life..as the special gift..it was intended to be

i cant change others..[nor do i seek to]
we each..have our life missions/reasons/purpose

i must..return to mine..[and let others fullfill theirs]
i have lived..my life..between love/hate..[knowing neither...fully]

it is..in no way strange..to me..i now find myself
between the flesh...and spirit...trying to please the call of both

in the end we each have the choice
to read...OR IGNORE..

back to work..QUOTE..<<He Visits..the Great House of Refuge..in Hell>>

noting that there is..no death
this is the law

..I entered...yet another..house..in hell.."the roofed-in..courtyard as before...There was a school here also,..but this time I crossed the quad at an angle,..and..entered a passage

“From the passage..we passed through a door..into a large-room
which was empty..save for a few couches..and a table in the centre.

“My guide spoke:“‘This room forms the anteroom..for the school...Those spirits who are..ready to be taken in..are admitted here.

They are often very weak,..and at first are placed under the
guidance..and control..of a specialist_teacher...He or she watches over them..for the whole time,..and only after awhile..are they deemed sufficiently..strong to attend the proper classes.

They need individual attention..at first.’

“‘Are they kept here..for the whole time?’
“‘No...This is the room..which connects up school..and refuge/home...It’s a sort of isolation ward...After a time,..as soon as they are strong enough..to get about properly,..they are taken to a sort of study,..one for each pupil and his teacher...See!’

“He led me out of the room..and through a doorway opposite...Here I
found a much smaller room,..and in it was a bright male spirit..and on a couch a small-misshapen child.

The bright spirit..was playing a beautiful soothing hymn.
“‘Music soothes pain,..and that unfortunate one..is suffering terrible mental pain,’..said my guide.

“We entered another..‘study,’..and here
another exhausted spirit was being treated.

“‘What is he doing?’..I asked,..indicating the bright-spirit..who was making signs..over the body of the patient.

“My guide replied,..‘He is lending him..some of his magnetic fluid. The patient is weak in will-power,..and this spirit is treating him.

The method is analogous..to that of the/magnetic-healer..on earth.’

“We then returned to the‘anteroom’..and passed through..

continues
..[oh it would be..so much easier..to do nothing]

This led into the House of Refuge proper.

“We found ourselves..in a kind of hospital-ward...There were no bedclothes..on the beds,..if so..I can call them,..and on these lay tiny..child-like..persons

Now the most extraordinary thing about it was..that the children who were..nearest the door*..through which we had entered..were by/far the most active*..and strong;..yet they were the smallest*.

As we moved..towards the opposite-end..of the dormitory,..where there was another door,..I noticed that..the children grew larger...progressivly..larger,..

but at the same time..they seemed more flabby,..dark,and indistinct.

“My guide said,..‘I will explain this difficulty to you.
These spirits..when in Hell..appeared tall/fixed..and strong.

The more evil they were..the stronger they appeared..to look.

Their spiritual-bodies..were*..made of evil..and darkness,
just as ours are..of goodness and light..

When,..however,they begin..to repent and come here,..the will to evil principle's..within them..grows weaker and weaker,..and as it does so the real spiritual-body..develops slowly.

“‘Thus at first..these rescued spirits grow..weaker and weaker,..and then they become..“as little children”..in very truth...as you clearly see

Once this has happened,..they are able to go on-to..the
school..where they begin to grow again,..[as they learn/love]..though often very slowly.’

“I asked,..‘But where do they get..this element of light..from which the spiritual body..develops’

“He replied,..‘Even in Hell..men retain some little/spark..of spiritual truth...They cannot help it,..for it is implanted..by God.

It is the Divine element..in all*,..which,however much it may be submerged,..can never*..be quite extinguished...Even in Hell..men learn..in spite of their evil-will.

Thus they learn..that death*..does not end life*;
although..often they have wished it did....

“‘Once they begin to grow better,..they grow weaker..initially,..and so Hell..becomes more and more hateful..to them...For in Hell the strongest..is he who is..most wicked..and the strongest/oppresses..and cruelly ill-treats..those who are weaker than he,..and there is no death*..to intervene’

“‘Is there pain,..then,in Hell?’..I inquired.
“‘Yes;..only it is mental..and spiritual suffering,..but to the souls there..it is as real*..as physical suffering is..on earth,..just as here..the earth on which we stand,..though immaterial to the physical world,..seems real and material to us.

Yes,..they suffer,..but no friendly-death..comes to end..the anguish of the wretched victims...“‘The old descriptions of Hell,though..to the modern world..they seem gross and materialistic,..in reality..were not so/very..inaccurate.

They were rough-hewn..and couched in materialistic language,..but much of..the apparent materialistic detail..is due to two facts:

firstly,..that to the spirit..these experiences seem..as materialistic ..as men’s do..to them;

secondly,..many of the finer distinctions..made by the spirits have failed-to..penetrate the medium’s brain,..whereas the more materialistic..obtained a ready reception.’

“I...‘Then there were mediums..long ago..through whom spirits/in Hell could send messages’

“‘Certainly...And,further,..at times men..who were still alive..have been able to visit..these realms when..their bodies were in a trance and carry back..some recollection..of what goes on here.

Dante is perhaps..the finest exponent of this kind of..revelation.’

These changes..took place..when he set to work to put it..into literary form...He had no misunderstanding/of..the facts immediately after he returned..to the normal state.’

“He ceased,..and we passed out of the room..into another.

“Here we found..the spirits just as they came in..from Hell.

Rescuers were constantly arriving,.bringing some poor unfortunate being with them...These they handed over to others,..who received them kindly,..reasoned with them,..and urged them to undergo..‘medical treatment.’

“It was not always easy..to persuade them to do this,..and even while I was there,..several went out of the House of Refuge..back to Hell.

Perfect freedom..is the law here,
and if a man Wishes to be foul,..foul he will be.
[let him..who would be decieved...be decieved]

AHH-men

pynch: thank you so much for YOUR kind words. We will always have our own beliefs in rights and wrongs. That in life, for yourself, is the only thing that matters. :) I am going through a lot of emotional torment. I know it is self-inflicted.. but somehow I cannot just stop caring. And i cannot forget. So the last few days I have been like a pogo stick, laugh, cry, in the matter of seconds.. I have been spending my days crying because I am stuck here.. BUt it is ok.. because I have already decided to stay and fight however tough it is going to be. I will wait till my matter gets brought up in the courts here. The I will make them realized how much damage they have done to my family and myself thanks to their judging brain-washed nature. I know.. I understand they are just doing their jobs, and that they don't know any better.

samsung: I am proud of you and your sense of achievement. Keep up the good work.

UOG: I chose this nickname when I was young after watching the sitcom. I am glad it made you smile. I hope you are ok. You are in my prayers. Thank you for sharing... :)

sharing is what we do here
anyhow i been thinking on suicide
here is what i got so far

based on words recorded..by a teacher..
in..[a course in miracles]
a guide book..to the spirit...

that can only be comprehended..fully...by spiritual thought..
realized into works

What is..the.."right"-way..to cope with suicide?

Sometimes those..contemplating suicide wonder,..is all this..is an illusion, ..thinking..what is the purpose..of our staying alive?

or..Why should we struggle..with this life..
that is not part of..the real world anyway?

What is the purpose..of any of this?

we can reply in many ways...but going to the basics...death is not dead..thus every death..is really suicide....For,..as Jesus explains,..

"No one can die..unless he chooses death"..(T.19.IV.C.1:4),..

and again later,.."No one dies..without his..own consent.

Nothing occurs..but represents..your wish,..made manifest

and nothing is omitted...but that..you choose"..(W.pI.152.1:4,5).

death..is a thought..in the mind..[that we thought.[seek]...to make real..but that choice..has nothing to do..with the body..(e.g., W.pI.163.1:1; W.pI.167.2:1,2,3)...

For the ego itself..has its origins..in an..illusory-thought of death..being an end...

when it is clearly...its a new beginning...
mearly loosing..the flesh-body...into its next..body-form

yet..the spirit..[life-energy]...lives on..
the mind..that thinks it ends...wastes much time...
on thinking of..nothing..based in..eternally true..fact

as..in the end..their mind..realises..it isnt dead...
so those dying...have only wasted...this physical...life's-gift...

that..we needed to do...
still needs to be done...!

and that is far easier...here..[than in the next realms]..
where the connection..with the problems...here...cannot be easilly be reconnected..nessitating much delay..in resolving issues..rightfully needing to be corrected..here/now...

jesus rightly said..let the dead..tend the dead...
because..'dead'..is an illusion..we chose to..buy into..

further we..grieving a..'loss'..
sustain..the dead-delusion..by grieving..

[grieve not..for me]

..1/thessalonians 4;13..'But it is..our desire,..brothers,..that you may be certain..about those..who are but sleeping.. so that you may have..no need..for sorrow,..as others have..who are without hope.'..

1/Thessalonians 5:6..So then,..let us not be..like others,.who sleep,..but let us..be alert..and self-controlled...love/works

many..are in error/based in fear..building delusion
that only compounds..the error..suicide occasioned..
or occasioned suicide..

error made..seem..to be..real

at a very real/level...god-gifts us all..eternal life..
now..and here-after...

to hold errant/thoughts..as real...

[dead..not truelly being,..'dead]..
self deciete..makes further error...

such as..by..being..'dead'..that we can escape..or cheat fate..or karma...or deney god...his gift..of love/life..to us all..

[even..the so-called..sleeping-dead]

the belief..that we can..attack/..reject..or return..God's..

gods..gifted life..in order to wrest..a separate..individual/ego/self..from Him....

is believing..error..as real

error..from adverse circumstance..or fate...such a thought represents..not only murder,..[premature end]..by the implied death..of God's gifts..[gifted..for eternity]..[et-earn-it-y]

but also..suicide..of the further gifts..we inevitable have earned...
nothing can bring on..or deviate...that we rightfully hold

the death of our..true Self..[as Christos/spirit]..within...us all.
And so..whatever follows..in the world of bodies..and human-behavior
resulting..

from this initial..insane thought..can be..no more real or sane...than so many other delusions..[such as judgment-day...or reserction-day..or god become man]

Because the right Course..always..asks us to focus..on content and purpose..rather than form..and appearance,..

all death in the world..that comes from an ego thought
will be viewed..in exactly the same light.

The ego’s purpose..in all death..is to prove that the separation..is real ..and that,..in the end,..God triumphs over us..by taking back..from us..the life..that we think/believe..we have stolen..from Him.

We can either resist..until we finally succumb to more powerful..external forces,..or we can resign ourselves..to our fate and yield to death..by our own hands...or the hand of other..

What form death..may come in..then does not matter..
for the content of error..is always the same..errors in thought;..

our puny materiality..;..painful-life..is ours..only for a limited time..before we inevitably must lose it....only..to go the next phase...the next stage...next..[meta-morphesis]..into the next life..the next..eternally

we would see..all death,..including suicide,..as no different in content,..but only in form,..means/way/progression..even regression...

some from delusions we made seem real..[others..by that..we deem as/by fate..every other choice we ever make..here..in the world..that is based..on our perception of ourselves..as separate and alone,..in pain,..vulnerable and victimized...

And yet we should know..that that perception is false,..

based as it is on a faulty premise about ourselves,..that we are this body,..trapped in a harsh,..cruel world,..not of our making,..desperately battling against insurmountable-odds..to find a little peace and happiness..in a hopeless situation

over-which..we think..we have no control...

[its so sad..its pathetic]

From most of the world’s perspective,..suicide has a stigma..and a negative moral judgment associated with it,..but that is simply part of the ego’s defense..which insists..that both life..as a separate self..and death..of that..'self'..are..real.

From the Course’s/perspective,..
the thought..behind suicide,..is..ego-based..

UOG: I already knew you were by what you wrote. You have given up hope. Hope and faith. Please read these:

"The beginning of a new day: in life, we always have a choice. We can choose, to live in our past. To let the hurt and pain influence our daily lives. We can choose to be truly happy, or we can choose to let others influence our lives. I choose to live my life, the way I believe is right for me, and not the way it is right for others. Not let what they say, they think, they do, influence my beliefs." -E.T.

"When we thank GOD, in our different religions, beliefs, cultures, languages, for the blessing we have receive, how many of us actually appreciate it? -E.T."

E.T.'s Quote: humans can be so deceitful, selfish when they want things for their own good it is so sad to see. This is where evolution has brought us. Deal with it..

"Decisions, decisions... before making a decision, we weigh our options, consider the consequences we have to live with. If u think u can't deal with the consequences of ur decision, then come up with another solution. -E.T."

"The consequences of my decision: Having met Dave, who has given up hope. He said:" Why do anything? What for?"
He is happy, he is positive, he is a good person, but he has lost hope due to personal circumstances...
Hope we must always have. We hope that it will get better, and it will get better. Do not lose yours, please! -E.T."

Hang in there...don't give up

give-up?...
NEVER..

we area strange...species..thank-you..for your good-quotes

[who/what..is E.T?]

there is hope..and there..can-be..certainty
certainty..that/things..will get better..
..only when we chose..to try..

i know im trying...
but for now..i need to finish..

the acim quote
<<..ego/based..thus rooted..in error..

[Jesus also makes clear..that death..cannot..be chosen..with the guidance of the Holy Spirit..(M.12.5; S.3.II)],..it is a mistake,..an error,.but..that is all.

It is not a sin,..nor does it entail..any negative consequences..any different from any other decision we make..[with the ego..as our teacher]..[the faulse_teacher]

we all can..reinforce the guilt..we unconsciously..are wanting to keep alive..in our mind..to prove..that the separation..[from good/life/companionship/logic/reason/fact]..is real.

And so suicide..is no more of..a mistake..
than the mistake..we made..in choosing to be born..into the world...

In both cases,..we are trying to deal..with the problem of the guilt..in our mind..by focusing on the..seemingly..external world..and our material-body,..

guaranteeing...that we will-not..find..a solution...outside us
for the answer..lies with-in..

We are attempting to solve..the problem..of separation..in the world,
as if..the world..were the problem..{real},..
rather than..in the mind's miss-perceptions,

where the real..problem..the insane/thought-of..separation..[ergo/ego]..is buried...rooted

And so,..whether..we commit suicide..sickness..or we die..in any other way,..its believing..that death is real,..eternally..a fact..is in error

thus we will remain trapped..in the self-imposed ego belief
in separation...from the living loving..good..[god]

Death does not..deliver us from..the ego/thought-system,
nor from..the worldly realities..that is only..
ego's..errant reasoning..its defense.

Only looking at..the ego-based..thought system..
with the non-judgmental presence of Jesus or the Holy Spirit..beside us..and then deciding once and for all..that the idea of separation holds no value for us..

can return us..to the experience..of our one-ness..with God/..good...with-in..us all

For the world is not..depriving us of anything..
only our..choice/unreasining/fear..
ego's will..to be/separate..is.

Even though..this world..could be seen..as an illusion,..
as are..our individually..sepperated lives here

life..we feel..is bracketed between birth and death..
yet..we..of higher reasoning..don’t believe it.

if it hurts..its bad

..but hurt should be put in its place..
its we..who allow pain..its reality

If we did,..and truly..believe to know..the world’s purpose..was to attack Good..and therefore bring pain..into ourselves..our Self...[sustained to live..by god/good],..then of course..we would never think of..ourselves..as being..healthy..inbody..but of being..'in'..bodies...[ie sick]

But the fact..that..we all live that way..in this life..or the next...
[all-be/it..then in bodies..of light/love..or dark/hate...
the form..function..continues eternally..

breathing,eating,drinking,recreating,sickness and even well-being..etc....thus proves..that while we might intellectually believe what..A Course in Miracles tells us,..

it is certainly not..what we are chosing..
as our life-experience.

Therefore,..the Holy Spirit’s purpose..for our being here,..
once we have been born,..is to have us..learn His lessons of forgiveness,..including the ultimate lesson/..that death is unreal....only made seem real..by faulty thought..based in ego's fears

...that make..it seem real...but logic..reveals..energy cant be created..nor destroyed...thus breaking the illusion..revealing its error.

The world..then becomes..a class-room..in which we happily learn..what He is teaching us...now...[instead of later]..in the next life-incarnation..that Wanting to leave..the world..simply reinforces..its reality for us....

moving us further from..the realisations..in the next.

After all,..who would want to leave..a place
unless..he first believed..it were real..and unpleasant.

That is why Jesus tells us..in the ACIM/text:.."There is a risk..
in thinking death is peace"..(T.27.VII.10:2)...

True peace comes..not from leaving the physical world,..but only through the practice of forgiveness..that undoes the mind’s-guilt..

that is the only true-cause..of pain and suffering,..
as well as..the belief..in the reality of death.

And so,..as we are willing,..at the pace we choose,
we take the small steps of forgiveness..that will return us
to the glorious..eternal_Self..that we could never..really..destroy,

the Self..that has remained..our entity
despite our foolish digressions..into the illusions of..death

of course the [a cource in miracles...is only a guide]
that like all else..needs to be filterd...seeking its good
from its not good..for only good is real

or rather only we..can make bad...seem more real

last-post..re hell...
then..on-to..the light..[promise]

quote..<Perfect_freedom*..is..the law here,..and if
a man..Wishes..to-be foul,..foul..he_will_be.

“I noticed..the whole-air..seemed filled..with particles/of darkness..given-off..by the lost-spirits..undergoing treatment.
..various newcomers..were waiting,..attended by..their rescuers,..

and at..the/further..end..was..a_great_door.

“As..I approached it..I was aware/of..a living terror,..awful,intangible;..but real,..
and/knew..it lay..beyond that door...

As we drew nearer..to it..the nameless terror..seemed to grip my soul..and numb it.

I would/have turned..and fled,..
but my guide urged/me..to go forward.

“Now we stood..in front of it,..and suddenly..it was flung-open..and a rescuer..and his-charge..sprang in.

“The terror..seemed to flow in..with the darkness,..and I cowered back against my guide...Quickly..the door closed to;..yet in that brief instant..I saw quite plainly..that the/fugitives..had been pursued..up to the very door..itself,

and..I heard the wild-yell..of baffled/fury..and hate
as their..pursuers found themselves..kept back..by the wall of Good Thoughts,..which they..could not penetrate*.

“‘How was it,’..I asked my guide..‘that the pursuers
were_not-able to prevent..this man..reaching safety?’

“‘Each rescuer..carries around him..a wall of faith..and good thoughts*,..which these evil-spirits..cannot penetrate..unless*..he himself..makes a breach..in it..{by giving way*..to..any of the
temptations..with which..they will*..attempt..to lure him back.

The poor..lost-soul,..if he really desires..to progress,..can*,
..with the permission..of the rescuer,..pass within this wall..and so be/safe.

But if the rescuer refuses,..he cannot,
and if..while protected with it..he ceases to desire..to progress,..
he will be*..at once driven out..and so fall a victim..to his pursuers.

“‘Often and more-often..this does happen..and that is why
those..who take up..this work must-be..gifted with the greatest patience.

After one has striven..so hard..and risked so much,..it is
indeed hard..to see..the fruits-of_victory..torn from..our very grasp.’

“We turned,..and very thankful..was I
to escape..from the proximity..of that nameless-terror.

“‘Are there..any hospitals..similar to this..in the realm of half-belief?’..I inquired...“‘Yes’..my guide answered,..but each..for a different kind-of..case.

Many people..who suffered from..mind_troubles..on earth..come to that realm...They fall..into two divisions:

those..whose minds were..unable to work,
owing to some physical defect,{those forcing..re-incarnation}..

and those..whose/minds..themselves were affected...[by injury..or karma]’

“‘The first-group..may be..subdivided..into those whose..physical-defects,..being..present..from birth,..prevented all development,..

and those..whose minds,..having developed,
were suddenly unhinged..by some physical-accident.

These latter..need but..little treatment;..but the other groups*..need treatment..which,..in some cases,..measured by earth-time,..seems/very-long.

“‘You shall see..these hospitals..at another time’

“We then quickly passed out of the House of Refuge..and through the darkness..out of Hell.

Thus ended..this..strange_lesson*.”