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The Forum > General Discussion > The meaning of progressive

The meaning of progressive

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CRUCIAL IMPORTANCE. "PROGESSIVE"
This is probably the single most important term we need to understand today regarding the political directions people are seeking to take us to.

WIKIPEDIA
"Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform. Progressivism is often viewed in opposition to conservative or reactionary ideologies. The Progressive Movement began in cities with settlement workers and reformers who were interested in helping those facing harsh conditions at home and at work. The reformers spoke out about the need for laws regulating tenement housing and child labor. They also called for better working conditions for women."

AMERICA
Despite being associated with left-wing politics in the United States, the term "progressive" has occasionally been used by groups not particularly left-wing. The Progressive Democrats in the Republic of Ireland took the name "progressivism" despite being considered centre-right or classical liberal.

AUSTRALIA
In the past few years in Australia, the term "progressive" has been used to refer to what used to be called "The Third Way." The term is popular in Australia, and is often used in place of "social liberal." The term "liberalism" has become associated with free markets and small government; in other words "classical liberalism." Progressivism, however, means in part advocating a larger role for government, but one that does not involve central planning.

DISCUSSION. There are some interesting tends occuring now related to this concept, and we can benefit from an in depth discussion of them

What is 'your' understanding of 'progressivism'?
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Thursday, 8 July 2010 8:10:36 AM
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Its some weird muddle headed septic term that has no real relevance to us in Australia. Indeed I doubt it has any real relevance to the seppos either. Better to stick to the old pinkos and fascists. Much easier to understand and much more reflective of reality.
Posted by mikk, Thursday, 8 July 2010 10:17:23 AM
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ALGOREis RICH&FAT, my understanding of ‘progressivism’ is that it is just another neologism or half-word that is wide open to interpretation and abuse. Like so many others, liberalism, economic rationalism, and even sustainability and growth for example, its meaning can vary enormously and be, either deliberately or inadvertently, very misleading indeed.

It is all very well to define the word, but what we really need to know is the exact context and meaning in every case that it is used, as it is likely to vary all over the place. There is not a lot of value in simply understanding the formal definition.

I don’t think that we can avoid using words like sustainability and growth, but I reckon we should all steer clear of words like progressivism.

What I find more interesting about this thread is the one-word nonsensical title. Surely whatever is causing this glitch can be easily fixed. This problem has been around ever since Graham Young introduced general threads to OLO some years back! It is not a good look!
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 8 July 2010 10:46:51 AM
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Luddy.... the title was submitted as

"The Progressive Movement..what is it?"

I don't have the foggiest idea how come it became shortened.....*confused look*

We have a progressive movement in Australia. CJ and possibly Pericles.. and a few others.. maybe Foxy ? there are cetain characteristics which you can identify from comments made.

But the TRIGGER for this discussion was partly related to Australia, and partly the USA.

Please have a look at this... and see what you think.

http://www.watchglennbeck.com/

The vid (if you see watch today) is on the Black Panther movement where they stationed a couple of thugs at a polling booth to intimidate white voters. These blokes were charged.. but.. while they committed terrible outrages against freedom.. the charges were dropped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BemSmTNDxU

This is mind numbingly amazing. It might be worth noting that the first 'black' Attourney General of the USA does not think this case is 'big' enough for them to pursue. (why the charges were dropped)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/29/career-lawyers-overruled-on-voting-case/

GUILTY AS CHARGED?
The career Justice lawyers were on the verge of securing sanctions against the men earlier this month when their superiors ordered them to reverse course, according to interviews and documents. The court had already entered a default judgment against the men on April 20.

BUT WAIT....
spokesman Alejandro Miyar said. "Claims were dismissed against the other defendants based on a careful assessment of the facts and the law."

THE "PROGRESSIVE" AGENDA is to dismantle what it see's as 'white power structures'. (by any means)

Example.
http://www.acrawsa.org.au/ejournalFiles/Volume%204,%20Number%202,%202008/O%27Connell%20Pinned%20Like%20a%20Butterfly%20FINAL.pdf

Welcome to your (white) future.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Thursday, 8 July 2010 12:25:30 PM
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RICH AL, you reckon CJ is a progressive !! ?? !! ?? !!

Wow……that reaaaally floored me !! (:>|

(struggling now to pick myself up off the floor and find my balance, seeing stars and funny animals in the sky. Oh yes, they are little porkers with wings!)

So um, what definition of ‘progressive’ you are using here??

Oh hold on:

<< THE "PROGRESSIVE" AGENDA is to dismantle what it see's as 'white power structures'. (by any means) >>

Yeah ok, I think I’m beginning to understand (can’t view the vids right now. That will have to wait til I get onto a different system this evening).
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 8 July 2010 12:44:40 PM
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Ludwig, I agree with you that it's a pretty meaningless neologism. To Boaz, it seems to mean any political position to the left of his - which means just about any political position :)

Except, apparently, yours - which is a bit of a worry.

I'd be concerned if a raving fundamentalist wingnut *didn't* regard me as "progressive".
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 8 July 2010 2:55:57 PM
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An interesting title that one *Boazy*

"The"

Did it not come out correctly?

..

Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 8 July 2010 2:55:57 PM
" ... I'd be concerned if a raving fundamentalist wingnut *didn't* regard me as "progressive". ... "

I think *CJ* would have far less fun in this place if it were not for *Boazy* Although, I am open to be corrected on that one, not being fully aware of *CJ's* concept of "OLO Utopia" if even such a notion is applicable.

I also appreciate *Boazy* despite the fact that we hold quite contrary views bordering on BiPole extremes in some instances but in relation to the topic, would say, *Boazy* has always struck me as being keen and enthusiastic, and whilst he "anchors his vessel" to a number of hardened fundamentals on some issues of primary importance to him, in his sojourns out to explore the views of "the flock"

(and here I profess not to be any great analyst)

his writing and strategy are in a continual state of flux - and one could argue that this is because something of his nature strives to develop, grow, evolve, perhaps into a more fitting vessel for his "God Concept" to inhabit.

To digress slightly I note that in the Christian tradition to which I was reared, we did when of age specifically use wine during the Mass to induce a mild change in consciousness as a real symbol of our personally chosen willingness to change.

" ... Lock us up, purify us, set us on fire and sublimate us until we become utterly what U want us to be. ... "
Posted by DreamOn, Thursday, 8 July 2010 3:26:38 PM
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Nice to know you worry, if only a teeny weeny bit, about my political position, CJ.

----
I watched your vids FAT AL.

While I agree that it is outrageous for those Black Panther guys to escape prosecution, I’m battling to relate it to the concept of progressivism as you outlined it in your first post.

As for CJ being a ‘progressivist’ of the sort that has anything to do with the Black Panther movement or abject racism, I’m sure he’s nowhere near that ‘progressive’!
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 8 July 2010 9:33:37 PM
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Progressivism is such an interpretable word that means whatever you want it to relative to your opinion, just look at many of the discussions on this forum.
Economically speaking it means to constantly change things whether they need it or not, because that change generates activity in the market place that is either positive or needs to be reformed to fix it, there by creating more activity.
progressive social activity is an agenda set by community attitude and can easily be regressive as progressive as can be noted throughout history. Most civilisations socially self destruct sooner or later.
More interesting to me is why AL never seems to stop flooding us with this american crap? Are you in america AL and i have just missed that point? I know as the largest economy at this time and a country that thinks it has the right to enforce it's corrupt and crumbling values on the rest of the world, it is relevant to keep one eye on what they are up to. But please constantly referring us to yank opinion sites is hardly relevant to our society. We are Aussie's what do we think?
Posted by nairbe, Friday, 9 July 2010 8:16:20 AM
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The regress of mentality in academic Australia is progressive.
Posted by individual, Friday, 9 July 2010 4:53:03 PM
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Luddy... hey..I'm allowed to be a bit chubby at this time of year..so jolly cold outside :) can't get to the gym as much or run.. but I did over 100 pushups 2 days in a row.. no.not all at once of course. 30 x 30 etc.

I have to get in shape cos CJ is going to deck me for annoying him. :)

The whole point of the thread.. was to explore the meaning of 'Progressive' as a political movement.

It tends to be left wing.. generally socialist, and to know what the basic agenda is.. just look at the things Pericles and CJ and any other blessed lefty's/greens and assorted watermelons support.
Pretty standard stuff
-Abortion
-Assylum leniency
-Multiculturalism
-Politican correctness.

But it goes further. There seems also a conscious and perhaps unconscious hatred towards 'white power structures'
The fact that most people happen to be white in such places as Australia does not seem to matter.. or it matters only in as much as the structure of power associated with us needs to be destroyed.

Did you see that ACRAWSA article ? "that" is 'progressivism'.

The progressives in the USA are very dangerous. They include ex bombers and terrorists.. Obama's team is full of them. But the biggest danger is something I've been hammering at for some time.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Obama now knows he has alienated the white vote... and his ONLY chance at keeping power is to bring the latino illegalls into the legal and voting structure.

Even if he does not retain power this time.. the progressive agenda would be well served if they can just manage to legalize 11million people who will unquestionably vote democrat.

That would change America forever.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Friday, 9 July 2010 6:50:57 PM
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That would change America forever,
ALGOREisRICH
At least America still has an opportunity to change that trend, here it's already too late.
Those who pushed the progression towards regress have made enough progress.
Posted by individual, Friday, 9 July 2010 7:39:01 PM
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Progressive is the opposite of Regressive.

Those who see something wrong with any sort of change want things to either go back to a supposedly "better time" or to just stand still and stagnate.

Not all changes are good but most are inevitable - it's how society evolves.

Nobody ever raised a statue to a critic. If you don't like it, do something about it or just stop whining.
Posted by wobbles, Saturday, 10 July 2010 2:17:16 AM
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Nobody ever raised a statue to a critic.
wobbles,
quite right but many incompetent officials have been put on pedestals for all to suffer & pay for.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 10 July 2010 4:58:31 AM
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*progressive*.....from....'what' ?

to......'what' ?

That's the important question.

We all know the issues.. so the question for me is only one.

How do we defeat these dark forces which would take us into cultural and philosophical oblivion where Peter Singer is their oracle?

Simple...speak the truth.. stand for it..and persuade others to do likewise.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 10 July 2010 9:40:41 PM
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Another very important Video of SEIU.. a 'progressive' Union.

Andy Stern says "Workers of the world unite.. not just a slogan but a way of life".....

"At the moment we are using the power of persuasion.. but if that doesn't work, we will use the persuasion of POWER"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSllsTLkBsw&feature=related
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Saturday, 10 July 2010 9:57:53 PM
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fROm:

'GetUp' <info@getup.org.au>
Sent: Sat Jul 10 13:42
To: <snip>

" ... They say democracy is a muscle. You don't build muscles by watching sport on telly (although with all the World Cup, Tour de France, Wimbledon, netball, AFL and rugby of late, we wish it were true). And you don't build your democracy muscles by watching the election coverage on TV.

The election will be called any day now. For those who want real PROGRESSIVE change, this is not the time to wait and see - this is the the time to act and decide. And if you have a living room, backyard barbie, or even a favourite local cafe - you can do exactly that. ... "
Posted by DreamOn, Sunday, 11 July 2010 1:42:22 PM
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Anybody care to nominate a single social benefit that wasn't won as a result of collective representation or lobbying?

Better still, any such benefits granted due to nothing but the largess of non-progressive political groups?

I'm not talking about tax cuts to the wealthy but widespread social benefits.
Posted by rache, Monday, 12 July 2010 1:40:15 AM
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Rache..I was reading of a case of a girl dismissed as 'being pregnant' when she had a life threatening brain condition, this morning by Casey Hospital. Overworked, underresourced health care systems.. ie.. the type 'progressives' would give us... caused that.

Ask Dr Donald Berwick the newly appointed socialist/progressive of American Health.. he said "It's not that we won't be rationing health care, but whether we will be doing it with our eyes open"

I know what its like to be turned away with Bacilliary Dystentary, given a couple of panadol and be told 'come back in a few days if it isn't better" and nearly dying in the process.

The term 'progressive' tends to mean 'socialist' and the wider you spread limited resources the thinner they get.

MOst European countries are now wakin gup that when the financial (progressive/socialist) cupboard is 'bare'... you can't keep eating.

Contrary to your mythology about all these wonderful social 'benefits' .. look more closely at our history and see how much the Churches have done. The types of benefits won by 'progressive unions' tend to be the unsustainable types... no matter how good they are or seem while we are pilfering from the very finite bank balance.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Monday, 12 July 2010 4:48:06 AM
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