When a renowned Muslim scholar, namely, Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri, comes out so openly and bravely, and issues a FATWA against violence and terrorism it should be shared throughout the world.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/03/terror.fatwa.analysis/index.html?hpt=C2

Please share this article with your family and friends.

This man deserves the world's recognition, thanks and appreciation.

Now that really does deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

Or maybe several peace prizes seeing that Obama got one in 2009 for freeps.

Dear Opinionated 2,

Firstly, welcome back!

It's great to see you posting again.

This is indeed huge!

An Islamic scholar, a leading Pakistani cleric in
the UK has issued a global ruling against terrorism
and suicide bombing. It seems almost unbelievable,
doesn't it?

According to BBC news there have been many scholars
who made similar rulings in the past but apparently
Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qari's massive document goes
much further.

In his 600 page judgement there are no "Ifs" and
"Buts," added by other thinkers. His document sets out
point by point rebuttal of every argument used by
al-Qaeda recruiters.

BBC news says that the basic text has been extended to
the 600 pages to cover global issues in an attempt to
get its theological arguments taken up by Muslims in
Western Nations.

Fingers-crossed that this will happen. And an even stronger
hope that this will have an actual influence at the
grass roots level.

As the BBC confirms, many feel that the conflict
between Israel and the Palestinians is "an exceptional
situation" where "martyrdom" may be justified."

All things considered though, this is a positive, brave,
step, a huge step, in the right direction.

We can only hope something good does come out of it!

Now if the USA gets out of Iraq ,Afghanistan and Pakistan,perhaps we can move towards peace.It is not a one way street.

The Muslims have lot to be angry about.The USA oligarchs lied about Iraq,there were no weapons of mass destruction and now lie about Iran.

At last someone that might help to end the cycle of reprisal and counter reprisal in the middle east

Well done.

Great to read.

I loved this bit:

"The 59-year-old Pakistani scholar called his fatwa an "absolute" condemnation, going as far as to label the terrorists themselves "kafirs," a term in the Quran meaning "unbeliever."

Islam is a peace loving religion in the same way that Christianity extolls the values of peace,compassion and kindness towards one's fellow man.

Terrorist activity is at opposites with the teachings and principles of Islam and should rightly be condemmed.

Hopefully this action will also encourage Christians and other faiths to come out in condemnation of their own when illegal wars and other wrongdoings come to their attention.

Those that do wrong will continue to do so when their actions are legitimised either by some warped interpretation of their faith or by governments and large corporations with vested interests.

Much appreciated, opinionated!

I for one, am passing this one on.

Hi Foxy,

Thankyou for the welcome back.

When I first read the article I knew I just had to share it with others.

I was trying to get a copy of the full text in English for people to read...

This is the link with Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri I think speaking in Urdu but the words on the page are in English

http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/9959/Historical-Launching-of-Fatwa-Against-Terrerism-leading-Islamic-authority-launches-fatwa-against-terrorism-and-denounces-suicide-bombers-as-disbelievers-Anti-terror-Fatwa-launched.htm

I think this link is to the actual FATWA but I'm sorry again it is in Urdu

The heading of the page reads

Fatwa: Terrorism & suicide attacks ‘un-Islamic’

http://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/9396/Fatwa:-Terrorism-&-suicide-attacks-%E2%80%98un-Islamic%E2%80%99.html

I think you can get a free copy of the document here but you have to join first.

http://www.minhajbooks.com/english/bookid/376/Fatwa:-Suicide-Bombing-and-Terrorism-by-Shaykh-ul-Islam-Dr-Muhammad-Tahir-ul-Qadri.html

And on this page you get a breakdown of the chapters

http://www.minhajbooks.com/english/control/btext/cid/8/bid/376/btid/1983/read/txt/Detailed%20Contents:%20Suicide%20Bombing%20and%20Terrorism-Fatwa:%20Suicide%20Bombing%20and%20Terrorism.html

I hope this assists people.

Dear Opinionated2,

Thank You for the links.

And as I said in my earlier post -
we can only hope that it will achieve
some good.

Part of the problem is of course that
the fundamentalists view Western interference
in the Middle East as a threat. It gives them
the excuse to gather recruits for their "cause."
How do we solve that problem?
Stay out of their affairs?

OP2, those other links - even better!

I hope he gets a Peace prize, not a bullet.

The fact that this story has been given relatively little press in the 'west' is sad, but unsurprising.

Doesn't a FATWA mean a death sentence to the accused. Unfortunately you do not solve violence by promoting violence. This is old world justice an eye for an eye etc. Those who feel injustice are often the accused and it is they that will take their sense of injustice to those condemning them. Also the Kora'n teaches it is valid to deceive an unbeliever you want to win to Islam, this also is old world morality.

Why now?
Why specifically this person?
I have long since come to grips with 90% of Muslims and Christians that they are both human and Humane.
As of the rest? There are *always* the extremists regardless.
I repeat the established religions are not the problem, certain minority of *people* are. The key question is Why? followed by, What should we do about it.?

Philo

No, a Fatwa does not "mean a death sentence to the accused."

The rest of your post therefore becomes moot; for example, your interpretation about the Kora'n (sic) teachings.

The anti-terrorism Fatwa by Professor Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri pulled no punches, declaring that terrorism was "haraam," or forbidden by the Quran, and that suicide bombers would be rewarded not by 72 virgins in heaven, as many terrorist recruiters promise, but with a suite in hell.

"There is no place for any martyrdom and their act is never, ever to be considered Jihad" - in Arabic, the word jihhad is a noun meaning 'struggle'.

"It's about time Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda realise that Muslims will not allow their faith and identity to be hijacked by a bunch of thugs masquerading as holy men."

Philo, have you actually read the English preface to Professor Muhammad-Tahir-ul-Qadri's Fatwa, or are you just shooting from the hip?

This is a real problem for us 'Westerners'. We see a Fatwa issued and immediately think it is a death sentence. In the mean time many innocent people are being vilified simply for coming from another culture. Western society seems to think that everyone else should be 'like them', good Christians, whatever.

This man, Professor Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, has got guts. He is a true peace maker. Unfortunately, as you have so aptly demonstrated, he will be a target for what he has said.

They pinned a bloke up to a cross two thousand years ago for doing something similar.

qanda,
Warring tribes of Islam is not new it has been happening for thousands of years. Take the Sunnies and the Shi'ite branches they declare FATWA on each other as both believe they are right and hold the truth. Outspoken condemnaton is not going to bring peace just further violence. Talking peace is not peace or talking revenge on violence is not peace. Take a look at a true Peace Maker Nelson Mandella in his story in the movie "Invicta"

If what Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri,said was merely to settle tensions with Western culture then he is unlikley to achieve that because what Islam ought to be doing is rising up to put down terrorism in its own back yard not merely allowing the West to give their young men to the slaughter.

Until Islam eradicates its threat to Western society by themselves dealing with terrorists then words are merely retoric.

He is trying to do what you want.
Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that?

Arjay and Pelican are right. The west needs to denounce the use of violence and engage in non violent conflict resolution.

I guess you must be a recent arrival, qanda.

No offence, but Philo has a long history of this sort of thing.

>>He is trying to do what you want. Why is it so difficult for you to acknowledge that?<<

I strongly suspect that the very last thing that Philo wants is that Islam loses its image of being the religion of terrorism. It would be a substantial blow to his own take on religion, which has been taking every opportunity to tar all Muslims with the same brush.

Here's a recent example of his thought process:

>>If the two fastest growing world views are atheism and Islam then we can expect World War 3 as both believe it is legitimate to destroy unbelievers of their world view.<<

What would he do if he didn't have Islam to tub-thump about, to whip up the fear-and-loathing that he feels is necessary to make his own position somehow attractive.

Just think about it for a moment. Let's say (and indeed, fervently hope) that Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri is spectacularly successful. Peaceable Muslims, who vastly outnumber the terrorists, will quickly put their aggressive brethren on the outer. Much the same as happened, albeit on a smaller scale, in Northern Ireland, where pressure from wives, families and the community had far more impact on eliminating the sectarian hatred than any political settlement.

If - let's say when - that happens, the vast majority of Christians will also rejoice. But it will be very interesting to see whether the Philos of this world - and there are a few about - will continue to stir up hatred wherever they can. A bit like the last few IRA and UDA fanatics, who cannot let go.

I'd be fascinated to see whether he could ever accept that his own religious belief was special only to him, and that other perfectly normal people trod a different religious path

I wonder if he could live with it?

What say, Philo?

Pericles

Philo must be terrified; his entire raison d'etre threatened by an Islamic cleric advocating peace.

Poor Philo he will only have atheists left to denigrate and they aren't such easy targets considering their refusal to engage in jihads or holy crusades, they don't even pray to the wrong 'god', because they don't believe in any god.

Peace in the middle east means tough times for the likes of Philo.

Philo,

For one so proud of his faith you sure don't seem to know it very well.

Didn't Jesus say during the Sermon on the Mount -

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Well isn't Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri trying to discuss peace by condemning terrorism as "unIslamic"? Isn't this a doorway to peace?

And when you state "Talking peace is not peace" I would have thought that is exactly what Jesus did.... he talked and through talking, taught! Have you just undermined Jesus' methodology and teachings?

How big is that log you have in your eye there Philo?

Every journey starts with a first step and this fatwa is a giant first step!

Foxy - Undoing the wrongs of history is always a tough thing to do. All sides have done wrong.

I, like you, and most of the other posters on this thread are approaching this FATWA with the respect and sensitivity it deserves.

May we find a way to have dialogue without the threats of violence and celebrate differences without prejudice...

Undoing what has been done is always difficult but with goodwill, love and respect anything is possible.

Afterall if God exists.... He/she/it is LOVE!

The only way to overcome Muslim terrorists is for the whole Muslim community to incarcerated those that teach segregation or hate; not declare FATWA'S. The community need institutions to reeducated and demonstrate by attitude love and peace to them the benifits of the reformed Muslim religion of peace.

Remove all the Kora'ns from the community containing encouragement to violence against Jews, Christians and infidels. This must be done by all Muslim sections not just the reformed group. Reeducate that Israel has a right to exist despite what Allah has told them.

History has shown, there is no denomination of any faith that is in total agreement on all their holy text, and one will threaten those with different interpretations from theirs within the denomination. The only way they will unite is by tight control of belief. How is this to be enforced; only by classing discenters as a heretic's and shot, burned at the stake or beheaded. Passionate zealots don't resolve easily. These have all been tried before. It's Ok to crucify me but come up with real solutions to an ingrained world view that means fight for the faith of Allah to the death. Martyrs - suicide bommers have the highest honour. They give their life for the cause.

Philo

Not asking a lot are you?

Lots of nasty stuff in the bible as well.

Here's an idea...

If you toss out your bible, I'm sure that Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri will toss his Koran out.

Deal?

Severin,
I am a Christian, I am not a Jew. I follow the teachings of Christ. Where in the NT do you find the nasty stuff you talk about?

Philo,

Oh now you have gone and done it... You have got me quoting the Bible again.

Jesus, (Matthew 5:17-18), categorically states "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

In this verse he empowers all the laws of Moses, a prophet, and the person chosen by G-D to deliver the laws.

Now Philo open your black book and read some of the laws that are empowered by these verses.

Here are a few to get you started

I think from memory they are laws allegedly given by G-d through Moses

Numbers 31:7-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031:7-18&version=NIV

Deuteronomy 17:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2017:12&version=NIV

Exodus 21:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021:15&version=NIV

Leviticus 21:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2021:9&version=NIV

Deuteronomy 22:20-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022:20-21&version=NIV

2 Chronicles 15:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2015:12-13&version=NIV

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2013:13-19&version=NIV

and

Deuteronomy 17:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2017:2-5&version=NIV

just for starters...

Now I know most aren't in the NT but in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus empowers them

OR

Philo - If you believe in the trinity and you believe Jesus is God you have a huge problem because Jesus, if you believe this, must have given these instructions.

Philo

Once again you retreat to the NT as if the OT was irrelevant to Jesus and his teachings, you won't get a place in heaven if you keep doing that.

And, yeah what Opionated2 said.

Further on in Mark, if an entire city should refuse to accept Jesus as saviour, this choice can bring on actions worse than the annihilation of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Mark:

6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Luke had similar admonitions as Mark in 10:14, 10:15.

How peaceable is damning entire populations to hell for not becoming Christians, Philo? Does talk of this type bring about peace?

Finally if you are going to make disparaging claims about other religions, you'd better read your NT first.

While Opinionated2 works Philo over with the biblical quotes, I'd like to take him to task on his "how to solve the problem" post.

Because unless I am being particularly sensitive this morning, it is one of the most offensive observations he has yet made on the topic.

And that's saying a lot.

>>The only way they will unite is by tight control of belief. How is this to be enforced; only by classing discenters as a heretic's and shot, burned at the stake or beheaded<<

But Philo, this is exactly how your own religion used to react to those they wished to eradicate. The witches of Salem spring to mind.

"One victim of the Salem witchhunt was not hanged, but rather pressed under heavy stones for two days until his death."

http://home.texoma.com/~adwignall/index.htm

Also, on a wider scale, the Spanish Inquisition, which became a byword for religious intolerance and murder.

"An estimated 31,912 heretics were burned at the stake"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html

It would seem that you approve of the methods your own religion used in order to impose its will on the populace, since you now urge another religion to take the same approach.

But I have to ask - did it actually work for Christianity? Or is it an aspect of the religion's past that you (collectively of course) are ashamed of?

Received wisdom is the second of these. In which case, the only reason that you would recommend it for Islam must be mischievous.

Or simply insulting. I can't quite decide which.

Pericles,
Thanks for emphasizing exactly my point. [It has never been how my Church have acted on differences of belief]. I am not a believer in the 3rd century Roman Church doctrine of the trinity, for which I would have been burnt at the stake in past days.

Opinionated2,
Fulfilling the law does not mean enforcing the punishments of Mosaic Laws post Jesus in the Church. Jesus by his death took all punishment for sins under the Royal law. The Mosaic laws were for the Nation of Israel in their culture and time, the Royal law remains i.e. The 10 principles for living. Read John 8 on how Jesus interpreted the stoning laws in the case of the woman taken in adultry. Though Jesus lived in Israel under Mosaic law. He demonstrated a kingdom view of grace see John 1: 16 - 18. The slave trader John Newton on understanding the concept of grace wrote the song "Amazing Grace that saved a wretch like me." Fulfilment of the law means its closure as an instrument of punishment in the kingdom of God. Forgiveness and grace is the principle of relationship in the Kingdom of God.

Mosaic law applies to the nation of Israel even as our national law applies to us. However the Royal law is universal and applies to every person. Christianity teaches Christ took all the punishments for sin in violations of the eternal Royal law. He did not take the punishments of having your bull gore your neighbour under National Israeli law even as he did not take the fines emposed by the state for your traffic offense.

The important principle is that the law was made for man for good social relationships and not that man made for the law as thouigh the laws are paramount. However grace envisages redemption and living positive empowered lives.

Dear Philo,

I want to appeal to your sense of logic.

Dr Myhammad Tahir-ul-Qari's 600 page judgement
sets out a point by point rebuttal of every
argument used not only by al-Qaeda recruiters,
but by Islamic fundamentalists. It is an attempt
to get its theological arguments taken up by
Muslims in Western nations. It disqualifies the
validity of martyrdom and is an absolute condemnation
of terrorists and terrorism. Its purpose is to
appeal to the young - that martyrdom and violence goes
against the teachings of Islam.

Surely you can see that this is a genuine and brave
attempt at doing something positive towards achieving
peace?

Thanks for your reply Philo... I didn't really want to go down the religious contradiction journey on this thread.

However, I think you have just pointed out that Jesus' teachings contradict one another in a few places, sometimes contradicting the OT and whilst at times seemingly harsh (Refer Severin's post), he was generally a peace loving person.

Pericles did however pick up a very important point which you have ignored. You typed

>>The only way they will unite is by tight control of belief. How is this to be enforced; only by classing discenters as a heretic's and shot, burned at the stake or beheaded<<

Not a very Christian view I would think, and one that makes you sound somewhat unChristian.

Does your quoting of John 8 make you also a little hypocritical?

Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri steps up to the plate, probably putting his life at risk, and openly denounces terrorism, correcting many of the falsities used by terrorist organisations to recruit new members (the 72 virgins rubbish).

I remind you again

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Instead of you saying well done, fantastic to hear... you start preaching your gospel of intolerance.

Maybe you should re-read John 8:6-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208:%206-11&version=NIV

Aren't you the one throwing stones or doesn't that verse apply to you?

And also you typed "It's Ok to crucify me..." Can you get any more melodramatic?

Are you comparing the pain and suffering metered out to Christ with the pain of our questioning your stance?

Severin's biblical quotes are very relevant... again you chose to ignore these!

Philo, I don't see too much "GRACE" being illustrated in your comments... maybe you should reflect on YOU a little more before instructing others.

There's a rumour out there that "Judgement Day" might be in 2012 and Jesus is planning to say "I never knew you" to quite a few of his self-declared followers.

Matthew 7:21-23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NIV

Be careful... just saying you are a follower isn't enough.

Pericles

I'm stumped, really. I don't think I'll ever understand religious extremists, from whatever side they come from.

I suspect your right though, they really don't follow or understand the doctrine of their faith. No wonder so many people are becoming disillusioned and denounce them as hypocrites, enacting their own brand of terrorism again in the name of God.

Opinionated2,
I do not practise what I have mentioned here, but the nature of these people is total control by the parent, leaders or Imams. They are not individuals they are tribal in their thought and behaviour. You will always have people justifying murder, ask any murderer in prision. If you had read my earlier post you would have seen my suggestion to incarcerate those with extremist ideas to educate and demonstrate what peaceful Islam is about.

How very mysterious of you, Philo.

>>Pericles, Thanks for emphasizing exactly my point. [It has never been how my Church have acted on differences of belief]. I am not a believer in the 3rd century Roman Church doctrine of the trinity, for which I would have been burnt at the stake in past days.<<

Your church, Philo? Do you mean Christianity? I'm sure you do, because you have said so... now where was it... ah yes, right here.

>>Severin, I am a Christian, I am not a Jew. I follow the teachings of Christ<<

But you say that "your church" has never acted this way on "differences of belief"

Oh, but it has, Philo, it has. And continues to this day to justify murder on the basis of "differences of belief".

"The war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was among three faith groups, (Muslim, Roman Catholic, and Serbian Orthodox). The Serbian Orthodox Christian attacks on Muslims was elevated to the level of genocide."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm

Furthermore, to add to the mystery of your post, you say that you yourself could have been "burnt at the stake in past days" for your beliefs.

By whom, Philo?

Who would have lit the match on you, for your heresy?

So please enlighten me. How exactly did I "emphasize" your point?

Pericles,
I see you prefer to place everyone with the similar broad identifier [i.e. Christian, Muslim] in your same little boxes. This is how you view Islam, If they claim to be Islam then according to you they are all the same. WRONG!

The chuch I attend has never been governed or associated with the Roman Church, or the English Church, or the Serbian Church, similarly different Islamic sections follow different beliefs and are governed by different heirarchy. In fact I have a personal friend in Austria welcoming and assisting displaced Muslims from war torn countries in the south [Africa etc].

The Roman Catholic Church in the 12 - 16 hundreds actively burnt heritics, of which I would have been one.

I actively spoke out against the Serbian genocide of Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Pericles,
I just opened up my mail to receive this email from a friend. How do you deal with a religion of peace?

One of our Christian friends, Ali Enokido requested us to pray:
"Urgent prayer request! Please pray for churches in India. Buddhist extremists in India burned down 20 churches last night. Tonight they plan to destroy 200 churches in the province of Olisabang. They plan to kill 200 missionaries within 24 hours.

Philo

ALL VIOLENCE IS WRONG!

But I think that is a hoax email and last night was February 28 on some sites. Last night can last a very long time it seems.

http://billcork.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/buddhist-extremists-and-other-hoaxes/

With all these hoax emails I ask this ... Why don't people search these things first before spreading the false rumour?

So Philo ... you may be able to answer me... Why would you post this without checking it first?

Opinionated2,
You are right, I should have checked it first. However it came from a close friend.

Hi Philo,

Some of these hoax emails are well designed to get past us. I check everything these days because some of them are very, very clever.

I never want to send something on that is incorrect.

I am interested though... Did you email your friend informing them that it was a hoax and ask them to inform all their friends that they emailed that it was one?

It seems to me that when these things happen we have an obligation to at least attempt to undo the damage that is caused by this sort of email.

For instance... How would we feel if we were Buddhists and we received this email?

How would you feel if a similar email was sent out using the term Christian terrorists?

I remember receiving one from my cousin, a devout Christian, quoting the Qur'an, which was an outrageous misquotation.

I went into some detail quoting chapter and verse (the one quoted was 9:11 so you can see the significance to an American) and requested that he undo the effect that his widely broadcast email could have.

Afterall it was effectively "bearing false witness" by alleging something that was totally wrong by misquoting someone's religious book.

I hope he re-emailed everyone with the correction but one never knows if he did or not. I think a Christian would have this obligation the same as we all have.

It also caused me to ask the question... What motive (other than a mischievous motive)could the writer of the original email have intended. To a Muslim the email would have been offensive and how many would have automatically but wrongly would have thought that it was sent by a Christian or a Jew?

It is quite a scary thought really.

With the speed of the internet... these things have a lot of ability to cause great harm and hurt.

But back to the topic at hand - Why do others think the Western media have paid such little attention to this fantastic "FATWA against Terrorism" issued by Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri

In a further article on CNN Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri proves that he is a man of peace and states that he is not scared of any human.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/11/britain.fatwa.terrorism/index.html?iref=allsearch

Again worth the read.

Philo,

I noticed you didn't find it in your heart to answer some of the questions I posed.

Have you fallen short of "THE GOLDEN RULE"

Luke 6:12

"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

I asked some simple questions and you failed to answer me... I would answer you if you asked me a question.

It is amazing how many people who do not call themselves Christian actually show more of the attributes Jesus requested - and yet Christians criticise them.

Jesus seems to be right again "the log in the eye sure is a biggun in some people - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A3-5&version=NIV

BUT another question I have been wondering... How many people actually prayed to GOD about the Buddhist extremists.

Does this mean that "As we receive JUNK emails and mail - GOD receives JUNK prayers" what does GOD think of "hoax emails creating junk prayers?"

I would love your insight into these questions.

Opinionated2,
I have a busy life outside OLO.
I may not conform to your expectations.
1. An email has been sent to the sender of the email, It was not passed on by me and the OLO post was corrected.
2. How many people prayed for the persecuted Christian leaders is unknown, as throughout the world hundreds of inoffensive local Christian nationals are murdered each week that rate no mention in our medaia many such as in central and north Africa and the Asian region.

Check with Amnistry International, and Open Doors on their contacts on persons murdered for religious faith.

Thanks Philo,

But you sort of diverted the answer to suit yourself. Are you a politician? lol

Your reply 2. doesn't answer it at all.

What does God do if his days are cluttered by "JUNK prayers" that your posting of the hoax email may have created? Did you apologise to him/her/it?

Whilst I give you credit for the retraction, was it enough? I wonder, if as a Christian, an apology to Buddhists your posting may have offended, would have been more in order?

Surely, you can't be too busy to apologise? And what would you expect of someone who had posted a similar thing using the term Christian terrorists? You would be deserving of an apology as are the Buddhists.

Does your Christianity extend to apologising?

Now this term intrigues me "inoffensive local Christian nationals". How do you know they aren't offending other locals?

Is it "inoffensive" for people to go into other countries proselytising and trying to convert other locals from their traditional religious beliefs? Give me your address and I'll send some other proselytising religions to visit you and see if you get offended...lol

Is it "inoffensive" for Christian organisation to use food for the poor to convert people to Christianity? Isn't this a form of bribery? Is this giving with a hidden agenda?

Do you like Muslims trying to change our culture? Well perhaps Muslims, Hindu's etc. don't like people trying to change theirs in their country?

So Philo are you Christian enough and man enough to apologise to the Buddhists you may have offended with your failure to check the detail of what you posted?

Now I know many people are killed because of their religious beliefs in many countries, not just your "inoffensive local Christian nationals"...

Let me repeat "ALL KILLING IS WRONG". I think Jesus would agree with me on that... don't you?

Philo... do you represent your saviour Jesus well? Some how I think you might be able to do better

Now Philo and others,

Here are two real articles on the same subject about alleged Christians no less

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/29/michigan.arrests/index.html?hpt=T2

and this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1261840/FBI-launches-raids-Christian-militia-group-preparing-battle-Anti-Christ.html

Now of course I would never think that you guys would approve of such things, but, how many organisations, calling themselves Christian, are participating in this type of activity, or similar activity?

Maybe if Christians went back to the Greek word for apocalypse - Apokálypsis which means "lifting the veil" - NOT End TIMES or END OF DAYS as is commonly preached, they might be more informed.

Sorry this site doesn't allow me to show you the exact Greek words as some of the Greek characters don't print.

Maybe if Christians realised that about 400 years ago there was a study called "apokalupsis eschaton" - "lifting the veil on the end times" and that through poor teaching the "eschaton" was dropped and Apocolypse was then continually misinterpreted as end times or end of days.

"Eschatology" comes from two Greek words last, and discourse or study

"The study of the end times" be it an era, an age, a life etc.

Of course we don't know if Revelations was translated from a Hebrew document into the Greek, and so this probably complicates these terms even further, because, we can't even get the Greek to English translations right.

Do Christians really know their Bibles?

If they can't get the first line of Revelations right...what hope for the rest of the book?

Here's a link that might help http://www.blueletterbible.org/

It actually allows you to see the Greek and the various English translations. No wonder People have no idea what the Bible actually means.

Is teaching "wrong translations" Christian?

Did Jesus stand for truth or falsehood?

John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth..."http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A6&version=NIV

If people don't really know their Bibles should they be teaching others?

What would Jesus say?