Pericles wrote, "Did you actually bother to read the tract from which you excised that quote?"

Naturally Bernays would have people believe that this manipulation of people is all for the best and that is the way it reads in the broader context.

Whether or not that quote is in its broader context, it actually describes the processes by which people are manipulated in supposed democracies.

Of course, anyone who maintains that Bernays' works are only about advertising (presumably commercial advertising) and not political control is ignoring my point that Bernays' works were text books for Third Rich propagandists as well as US propagandists.

In 1954 Bernays ran a propaganda campaign aimed at bringing down the democratic elected government of Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. Wikipedia describes it thus:

"Bernays' most extreme political propaganda activities were said to be conducted on behalf of the multinational corporation United Fruit Company (today's Chiquita Brands International) and the U.S. government to facilitate the successful overthrow (see Operation PBSUCCESS) of the democratically elected president of Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. Bernays' propaganda (documented in the BBC documentary, The Century of the Self), branding Arbenz as communist, was published in major U.S. media." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays#Overthrow_of_government_of_Guatemala)

Well, I am glad you don't see Mark Lombardi's suicide as hilarious after all, Pericles. In the context, where people like PynchMe ("Haha too good") and Christopher find death and apparent suicide and people being frightened to speak the truth as somehow funny, I think many would understand how I could have formed that impression from you last post.

If Pericles professed compassion for people such as Lombardi, whom we are told, killed himself, is genuine, then I think he would demonstrate a capacity to consider evidence that is contrary to claims that such people killed themselves.

Pericles, the invisible Government has been around for centuries. If people of the stature of Roosevelt, Wilson, Eisenhower attested to its existence and expressed their fear of it, then I would suggest that that is compelling evidence of its existence back then. And if it existed back, then it hardly seems likely that it would not be in existence today. Some may be interested to know that Pericles lost and ran away from on argument, in part, about the Invisible Government at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9092&page=25

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I note Pericles 'silence on the fact that all of Lombardi's work about the Invisible Government was factually based from newspapers.

And he has not uttered a word about Operation Northwoods.(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)

More delusion, daggett.

>>Pericles, the invisible Government has been around for centuries<<

If it is invisible, how would you know? If it is visible, where is it?

You cannot have it both ways, and stay credible.

>>If people of the stature of Roosevelt, Wilson, Eisenhower attested to its existence and expressed their fear of it, then I would suggest that that is compelling evidence of its existence back then.<<

The "evidence" you offer is, as usual, completely empty.

The Roosevelt quote you employ to "prove" the existence of invisible government was a statement of intent when he formed the Progressive Party in 1912. Most people would regard it, in context, as rhetoric, rather than political analysis.

The Woodrow Wilson quote most often used by conspiracy dudes is the one that starts "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country"

As you probably know, this is entirely apocryphal. There is no verifiable source, just made-up stuff. As usual.

And here's the full Eisenhower speech, unedited, so that you can see that military-industrial complex sound-bite in context.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/dwightdeisenhowerfarewell.html

He was talking about something that was new:

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience"

And that the citizenry needed to ensure it didn't get out of hand.

"We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

The potential existed. And still exists.

But so does the potential for nuclear warfare. That doesn't mean it is happening.

I think we might have noticed.

These random sentences do nothing for your case, daggett. If anything, they simply emphasise how shallow are the foundations of your case.

Let's not forget that one of Pericles' principle excuses for his refusal to even discuss the evidence against the official account of the WTC 'collapses' by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (http://ae911truth.org) is that he insists that the US Government is not controlled by a secret cabal of wealthy elites. Let's recount the dialogue in the forum "Australia, Afghanistan and three unanswered questions" (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=10034&page=16):

I wrote: "what, then, is Pericles' case? No doubt, Pericles prefers to keep it secret ..."

Then Pericles wrote,

"No secret, daggett.

"No secret at all.

"My case is that your conspiracy theory simply does not make the slightest sense.

"Unless, of course, you believe that there is a New World Order, complete with a mega-rich 'elite; of 'globalists' and 'banksters', a 'cabal' that is who are secretly orchestrating a takeover of world government.

"In which case, of course, it makes all the sense in the world."

Yet I have shown, both here and on that earlier forum (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9092&page=25) that a number of US leaders of considerable stature have attested precisely to the existence of such a cabal.

Pericles latest rant is an attempt to gloss over that fact.

This is what President Wilson wrote:

"There's a power so organised, so subtle, so pervasive, so interlocked, that you had better not speak above your breath when you speak in condemnation of it."

In 1934 that power attempted to persuade World War 1 hero General Smedley Butler to overthrow President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and install himself as Führer of the US, but Butler refused and blew the whistle on them (Zwicker pp226-227).

Most unfortunately the plotters were not put on trial for treason.

Clearly Eisenhower's perceived the Invisible Government somewhat differently,[1] because of the massive growth of the armaments industry, but that made it no less real.

(Also, note that Pericles still has not responded to my point about about Operation Northwoods. I can only presume that he has judged that that evidence presents problems for the case he is trying to argue here.)

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FOOTNOTES

1. And let's not forget that the 'military industrial complex" actually tried to make Kennedy launch a number of aggressive wars including, on at least three occasions an all-out nuclear first strike on the USSR. The first time it was put to him Kennedy walked out of the meeting. As he walked back to the Oval office, he said to Secretary of State Dean Rusk "And we call ourselves the human race". (Douglass, p 236).

So, if Pericles sincerely thinks that all-out nuclear war back in the 1960's would not have been a good thing (unlike the cabal, whom he pretends does not exist), then he should acknowledge the courage of the one man who prevented it and begin to seriously contemplate the possibility that that is why he was murdered.

Another random quote daggett. Out of context and inaccurately transcribed.

Naughty.

>>"There's a power so organised, so subtle, so pervasive, so interlocked, that you had better not speak above your breath when you speak in condemnation of it."<<

Here it is verbatim.

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

This is reported speech. Wilson did not say the words himself. You substituted "you" for "they", and changed "They know there is a power..." to "There's a power".

Check it out, it's all there in Project Gutenberg, "The New Freedom - A Call For the Emancipation of the Generous Energies of a People"

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14811

I know you hate having your references checked. But someone has to do it.

>>In 1934 that power attempted to persuade World War 1 hero General Smedley Butler to overthrow President Franklin Delano Roosevelt<<

What power was that, daggett?

Let's have another look at Wilson's speech.

"They know that America is not a place of which it can be said, as it used to be, that a man may choose his own calling and pursue it just as far as his abilities enable him to pursue it; because to-day, if he enters certain fields, there are organizations which will use means against him that will prevent his building up a business which they do not want to have built up; organizations that will see to it that the ground is cut from under him and the markets shut against him. For if he begins to sell to certain retail dealers, to any retail dealers, the monopoly will refuse to sell to those dealers, and those dealers, afraid, will not buy the new man's wares."

Trade, daggett.

Commerce.

Not treason.