ONE NATION, ONE CULTURE, ONE RACE.....Full Stop.

How beautiful it would be, if we had no sense of ‘ethnic division’.
If we could all look around and see just ‘Australians’.

Cultural diversity emphasis is based on racist ideas. What is so important about my ‘ethnicity’ ?
After all, our liberal friends are constantly telling us “There is only ONE race...the Human Race”.

Ok.. if thats the case, then why in the world would we not want to intermarry, and mix ourselves up so that a new ‘Australian’ emerges, who has bloodlines stretching out all across the globe ?

There is nothing inherently ‘superior’ or ‘more noble’ about my own Scottish/English background. The only thing we have going for us in Australia is ‘numbers’.

Naturally, as we intermarry and blend, the new ‘Australian’ will have shade of skin possibly a bit off white. His/her nose might be a tad flatter, he/she might indulge in customs slightly different from those we practice now. But one thing is for sure. There will never again be ‘Cronulla’ or Maroubra, or Lambing flat, or yesterdays bashing of a Jewish man in Caulfield by drunk Ocean Grove footballers.

Yes, I speak with a vested interest. I am bi-racial (Scot/Anglo) and have tri-racial children and am married to an Asian girl.
One thing I noticed though, my children were able to identify with all groups. My young son loves Jacky Chan movies but his best friend is very much Anglo. My oldest son was repeatedly the most popular boy in his secondary year (not by vote, just by perception of the teachers).
My daughter did suffer the scarring indignity of being told she was “born in a peanut butter jar” by an anglo girl at primary school, and is now marrying a half Anglo half Maori boy and her child will be and Australian of English/Scottish/Bornean/Maori ethnic heritage.

Perhaps I’m just being selfish, but I’d hardly say I’m ‘racist’ :)

DB,

Yes, we could in theory eliminate racism by eliminating our species racial diversity but why stop there? Why not just pick our best specimen and fill the world with its clones. That way we could get rid of racism, sexism and just about every other 'ism' out there.

Your proposal would solve the problems which attach to our racial diversity, but it'ss just as true to observe that the Nazis, had they eliminated all the 'sub-human' elements they dispised, would have ultimately produced a less racist society than any today.

The key to dealing with racism isn't to breed out the distinct racial groups, it's for those racial groups to lean to accept each other as equals.

Peace man. Let us show intolerance only for the intolerant.

Kalin.. oh that it was as easy as you say.. "Teach them to get along" :)

man.. we all dream of that, but in the history of the world up till now, I haven't seen it.

Just one point on your post. Hitler wanted to "kill" the sub humans.
I don't regard anyone as sub human, just different. I'd rather see us blend, and in so doing we would incorporate all the best in terms of food and even possibly fashion, and various other cultural niceties into our new 'Aussie' of tomorrow.

In order for separate groups to get along, they would have to interact socially. If they do, then there is a likelihood of people finding life partners among those other groups. I totally encourage this, but we would need a strong cultural framework which promotes and accepts and blesses such unions, and we would need to clearly socialize people in a way which dissapproves of inter-racial/cultural unions.

I'm not actually going in this direction because I'm in such a union, but I do really think it would be the answer to diversity related problems.

I simply don't see any need or reason which can justify 'sticking with our own' racially. On the religious level I can see people having a big issue on it, but that does not exclude inter-racial unions. As people from different races can have the same religion.

thanx for your comment.
P.S. I had to change the title for this thread :) Graham was a bit worried about the 'image' of OLO, but they allowed the real title "ONE... etc to remain at the head of the first post. Bless them :) I was trying to use is as an attention getter.. "What.. One Nation is HERE ?" Kind of thing. But hopefully, reading the content would dispell that idea

Hi BOAZ,

We've got some common ground here. I was born in England. My four grandparents were [alphabetically] French, Irish, Jewish and Scottish. Fortunately, they all had olive skin, as did both my parents, and my skin doesn't burn.

My first wife and the mother of our children had a father who was English of German family and her mother was English of Portugese family. Our eldest son inherited the dark skin from both sides and has been mistaken for Aboriginal. For instance, when he was a young teenager he had a weekend job in a WA country town and was called a black bastard in the street because he wouldn't share his cool drinks with some young white guys he didn't even know. He also once had an unusual experience with a police officer, who mistook him for Aboriginal. You can learn something about unfair discrimination from incidents like this, cant you?

He's now married to a Balinese girl and they live in Bali with their young son.

My young sister married an Englishman of Russian family. My second wife was English, with some Irish ancestors. My lady friend is Japanese. I don't think any of this was planned, we all just became attached to people who we fell in love with. But at least it could be an indication that my family has always tended to be not racially prejudiced.

From being a young boy growing up in England, I had friends who could trace their ancestry back to various European countries. And one Welsh friend who's ancestor came from Spain, but he didn't look Spanish, he looked so North African Arabic that he would have made a perfect Hollywood "Hawk of the Desert".

I would think that this racial mix is far more common in those whose family came from Britain and Ireland than many would think, or perhaps care to acknowledge.

BD AND REX ,my we are a mixed up mob aren't we !
Can't say too much though as our crew are going the same way .With a Jewish Godfather,[ from good mates promising to look after each other in the Second WW ] it makes it harder to go crook on the Israelis; and by having a gold digger great grand father from Barbados, with a "Touch of the tar brush" in him, I am open to large scale abuse from the mother -inlaw when i give a coo-ee of joy when Lara, with a rare good run from the umpires gets a ton !!
Ah,Love makes the world go round .

BD, Your use of the word "we" to describe "all humans" is a clever way of denying race matters. Yes it may be scientifically disproved, but it informs privilege and organises society in particular ways.

Yes it may be virtuous for you to declare everyone as equal and you might feel like a saint in doing so, but it isn’t the reality dude.

You're hearts in the right place but racism is much more complex than you appear to acknowledge.

In Australian culture "Australian" and "white" and "human" are considered to be synonymous, telling a black person to be "just a person" is like saying, "Why don’t you become like a white person?

Your children will need you to understand racism in greater depth, certainly more than you display here in OLO.

In fact, I feel I have a responsibility in asking you to decide whether or not you really care for your children at all - if you don’t get more informed.

Otherwise they'll end up hating you for reasons you don't understand. They are growing up and navigating a social, cultural and racial world much more complex than you give them credit for

Thanx Ranier, I appreciate your perspective.
I do feel a little though, that your rather harsh assessment of entrenched racism and the 'bad white fella' is rooted in either bad personal experiences, or learned attitudes.

On race issues, I'm quite robust. My kids are too for that matter, but my daughter is probably the most vulnerable. She has such a beautiful personality and is not an assertive person with those outside the family. She was even invited to go on a 'supergirl' course or something.. some female empowerment thing for unassertive girls (from school). She and her fiance read my opening post :)

My experience in Asia cleansed me from any shred of racism, in the "regarding them as maybe just a tad less able than 'us'" kind of way.

It quite blew me away to interact with people who might be using a blowpipe to take down a monkey one minute and be speaking with such intelligent grasp of complex issues the next. Though these days they use a shotgun more :)

This is why I am adamant that Aboriginals can achieve just as much as the white fella, and in the process bring a very rich perspective on life to the community. But of course, 'achievement' has many dimensions. I don't think I want Aboriginals to become 'just like us'
I'd rather they brought the best of their cultural outlook to us so we can all be enriched. One point of high value is the kinship patterns

You point about us really wanting 'your mob' to become 'white' is kind of true and false at the same time. The 'white' thing is purely coincidence. If we were yellow and had slanted eyes and were in the same number I'd think the same. Its not about becoming 'white' its about becoming members of the predominant community. For my ancestors, on the English side, I guess there was some 'becoming french' or 'saxon' etc....

REX.. glad we can agree about something :)

KARTYA JIM...comments noted :) cheers.

BOAZ....You were in T800s thread a minute ago, supporting his racially based thread saying One Nation was not a racist party, when every Aboriginal person in Australia would hotly disagree with you..
Then you had the 'Cherbourg' thread which was completely at odds with The One Nation thread too...

I think you are very confused Boaz_David..Pauline Hansons One Nation.(that term is a joke) only served to further isolate and villify Aboriginal pple and make them fear for the safety of their children at school..and they had experience(and friends of mine )whereby their children were attacked as a direct as a direct result of the hatred she whipped up..this also happened to Asian children..

I dont get you at all...except to state the obvious..and I wont.

What a wonderful article David Boaz. The Ethnic groups in the West are using the racism card to throw the spotlight off their own racism and refusal to marry outside of their own tribes. If you suggest we should promote tribal intermarriage they straight away brand you as a white racist. What could be less racist and more accepting of another tribe than allowing your children to marry into that tribe.

Rainer your hostility to marrying into the white tribe betrays your own racism.. Don’t try and justify it with the racism strick that you people always pull out to beat whitey over the head with when it doesn’t suit your own selfish tribal aims.

The etnic and tribal groups in this country must understand that all the bloodshed throughout history including the conflicts happening all over the world at the moment are tribal conflicts over territorial control. The Germans weren’t anti sematic so much as they feared losing control of Germany to the Jewish tribe who numbered in the millions and were gaining a very strong hold on the German economy with their business success. Because the Jews supported their own people and helped them in business.

The Jews were slaughtered for the very reason that tribal intermarriage never took place between them and the Germans. This is always a danger with religious tribes who have the added excuse of their religion that allows them to practice their own tribal racism and delude themselves they are doing it for purely holy reasons.

As sure as night is day at some point there will be bloody tribal warfare or terrorism in this country unless we all get together to promote intertribal marriage. It might happen in two years it might happen in fifty years. All the etnic groups here must ask themselves if they want that kind of terrifying future for their children. It only takes ONE TRIBE to fail to intermarry and when they number in the millions they will demand a separatist state and the rest is history.

Thanx for the kind words Sharky..

Taurus.. my point about One Nation not being 'racist' is not in conflict with all the other things I've said.

1-Nations view was simply "Treat all Aussies the same" and I struggle to find 'racism' in that ... can you ?

The only almost reasonable argument I've heard against 1-Ns policy was that the Indigenous folk have suffered institutional disadvantage and my raising of the Cherbourg issue illustrates this.

I have to agree that 1-Ns policy does not give this issue sufficient attention, but their policy on Immigration was not the slightest bit racist from what I can gather.

I'm not really confused, just limited by word constraints and the fear of boring people to death with long woffle...

Does that clear it up ? If not.. request further clarification on specific points pls.

Are there any Aboriginal posters on here who DONT THINK Pauline Hanson was racist?

Please it would be refreshing to see if there are Aboriginal people who dont think she was a devisive and nasty peice of work.

Will your answer be a silent affirmation?

OK, Time to organise big ethnically mixed dance nights nation wide. Lets assimilate by means of love and romance instead of by war and terror.

BD, from your response, you're getting closer to understanding what I'm trying (albeit patiently) to move your thinking toward.

Just who are the members of the dominant community you speak of?

I think this dominant community is largely imagined because you don't know most of the members, have not met them.

Yet it seems that in your mind lives an image of your communion with them. To me this is a key component of whiteness - that is an ability to declare white privilege without ever declaring that it’s white privilege. Why? Perhaps because it’s unrealised and invisible to you.

But from this imagined position you assert a standard by which other forms of humanity have to be measured or included - or must have aspirations to become 'part of the dominant'. Isn't this assimilation into something that is largely imagined?

I.e., "Become one of us, but don't ask us how we became 'us' by dominating 'you'- other something like this.

If you can’t understand the full extent of your own white privilege how could you possibly understand its racist effects on people that are not?

To me your apparent authority lies in your owned presumed capacity to be able regulate standards of humanity in, and across, diverse social circumstances - in this case - for Aboriginal people.

Read my last post again.

BTW, Scot/Anglo are themselves not races. At least not in terms of old scientific theory that underpins most discussions here on OLO.

Sharkfin, it’s clear to me by your comments that you are still back in the 1950's or even earlier. Its time you became comfortable with discussing racism as a much more complex sociological phenomena than you credit it to be.

Get with it; until then you have you have nothing to offer me that I haven’t heard a million times over. Yawn!

FAir go Rainier, the Scots and the Anglos had a different language didn't they? They fought each other for years .
My wife's Scotish grandfather used to say to his family, "If I found out that I had any English blood in me, I'd let it out!!"
When I worked up in the kimberleys, Aboriginal neighbouring groups with different languages were not always mates .Difference was the problem in each case .The wars are thankfully won or lost on the Footie field now .
Difference is interesting,can be maintained, but NO one group , race, colour or creed is better than another .[kartiya]
PS.But the groups or races that are "battling" I believe, need a hand up .

Well said all

Ranier..... I don't really like the word 'dominant' and thats why I use the word 'predominant'.. as in.. an issue of numbers, nor quality or power.

True, the 'white' mob have the power, and the numbers, but I don't like to think of 'you becoming white' I prefer to think of us all becoming Australians, in a way that genetically reflects all our ethnic roots.

Whenever you go on about 'white privilege', you are demonstrating your entrenched insistence on remaining 'aboriginal' rather than "becoming" the Australian of tomorrow.

The problem with diversity is best illustrated by 2 things.

1/ History. The British ALways used the concept of 'Divide and Conquer' which is why they had the Maori collaborators do most of the killing of fellow maoris of different tribes.

2/ Iraq. Where we see the success of the insurgents in dividing the Sunni/Shia communities by attacking each in the name of the other.

Note the post by Nosy-t in another thread, he is an aboriginal, his words

"We've been peaceful in our approach to gaining rights but the radicals are gaining momumentum. Keep oppressing us Australia but eventually we will fight back like Australia has never seen."

Do you see that ? Thats 'difference'.... when there is any grievance between communities, specially 'systemic/institutionalized' types.. there is fertile ground for the emergence of radicalization and terrorism.

I'm quite tempted to submit Nosy's post to Asio and the Federal police, not to 'stomp' him, but so that his information might contribute to the overall intelligence picture of what is happening here. But I'd rather hear more from him if he is happy to contribute.

My worst fear is probably an alliance between radical Muslims and Radical Aboriginals who are attracted to the concept of Jihad, and possibly Islam with its '4 wives' and paradise scenarios

Bosie:

"I'm quite tempted to submit Nosy's post to Asio and the Federal police, not to 'stomp' him, but so that his information might contribute to the overall intelligence picture of what is happening here. But I'd rather hear more from him if he is happy to contribute."

You should probably submit some of your own posts, which contain thinly disguised exhortations to mob violence by "anglos" against Muslims. I think they are far more seditious than anything posted here by Aboriginal people.

"My worst fear is probably an alliance between radical Muslims and Radical Aboriginals who are attracted to the concept of Jihad, and possibly Islam with its '4 wives' and paradise scenarios"

Yeah, right. Beyond the posturing of our very own Muhammed Ali wannabe, I can't recall any evidence of such an 'alliance'. Your arguments are becoming steadily more unhinged. Get help.

Dear BOAZ_DAVID,
just in case you didn't notice, the thoughts expressed on OLO are offered in an atmosphere free of fear and threat from anyone -for the sake of the discussions, can we keep it that way? [kartiya] .

Rainer,
Racism is a complex sociological phenomena. What do you mean by that?. That’s just intellectual goobledygook.

The Aboriginal tribes and Muslim tribes don’t want to be told the real reason behind racial conflict because it puts some of the responsibility back on them and they like to keep these intellectual debates going so they can endlessly argue their victimhood .

The Aborigines had their land taken. Well who hasn’t in history?. My grandfather came from England and it was overrun many times. But the English didn’t sit around forever bemoaning their victimhood. They got on with it and made a successful life for themselves under whatever conquerors were in charge of their country.

Nobody handed me anything. When I got married we had nothing. Not a brass tack. We worked to get a home and security. It took the good part of a lifetime.
Even if you’re white noone gives you land and a house.

The Aborigines have free access to the education system. They use their victimhood as a constant excuse not to take responsibility. There are outstanding exceptions to this and I apologise to them. They were brutalized sure, but that was 2ooyears ago and its up to them now to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make a go of it.

People always think of racism as being about one ethnic group of people looking down on another. But there's another side of the story - all those people looking back up.

Racism isn't just about one group dominating another, it's about all the groups, looking at each other as if they were different.

If you feel oppressed by racism from another ethnic group, do you blame that group, or just the individuals who are oppressing you. If you blame the group then you are being just as racist as your oppressors. Morally, you are just as offensive, you just seem less so because you're insufficiently powerful to inflict your own oppression.

A little hypothetical:

Say you meet a man who is homeless (lets say he's also an aborigine) so you give him $100 to get on his feet, or at least see him through. A week later you see him on the street again, so you give him another $100. Then again the next week, and the one after that until soon you are doing it every week.

A year later, you realise there's another homeless guy (this time with a white/european background). So you decide to give both the homeless guys an equal share of the $100 you give out every week.

Watch out, in doing so, you become a racist because you've chosen to disadvantage a black man (take away $50 of his support) in order to advantage a white man!

This is what happened to One Nation: It came up with a policy platform that impoverished and disadvantaged people, black, white, or green ought to get the same support. For this they were branded racist. One Nation could have been called callous, unsympathetic, simplistic, and ignorant, but is certainly wasn't racist.

The situation we now face is that any time a governement GIVES a benefit to a minority, any government can be accused of racism for simply rethinking whether it stops giving. This is an outrage and totally abhorrent to good democratic government.

KAHLIN, an outrageous argument !!
Targeted Affirmative Action similar to what has happened in America will get us into the White HOUSE .
And what is wrong with that .?.

My apologies, to finish .... just in case you think I'm racist, the Affirmative Action programmes to be for all disadvantaged Australians .Cheers.

C.J. always a unique perspective :)

Mate.... maybe you didn't read Nosy-ts post..

He was speaking about WAR against the government, not self defense between groups. I don't take his post as a threat from him, but as a wake up call for all of us.

Sedition is to remove the government by force.
My posts are about self defense and they will usually include the word 'lawful' just in case you had not noticed. Thats the diff... I don't need 'help'. Correction.. I do, we all do, in fact, I need yours as well as (I feel) you need mine, to walk together down that pathway of better understanding through disagreement.

I make my own contacts to the AFP and ASIO on a number of issues and my company has been involved in anti terrorism projects.

Back to the topic..... Kartiya.. your mild rebuke is welcome. It's ok. Nothing to fear here.

But we should avoid the term get 'us' in the white house :) that suggests 'us' and 'them'.....and eliminating us/them is the point of my article. For C.J.s benefit... it applies also to the segments of society which are currently poles apart and needing to consider such things as defense against the other.
cheers

Calling Pericles..... *Cooeeee*.... u usually have some insights about this kind of thing.....

Any comment ?

Boaz..

A while back you said to rainier, whom is a very articulate and balanced poster, that instead of referring to whites as being the dominant culture that we should refer to them as the predominant culture, you were saying that all Australians could come under this banner thereby erasing the black/white label and all become one race.

My point is why cant we still retain our own identity and still part of the same Australian community..It sounds like your trying to breed the 'black' out of the black man.That for him to be acceptable he must not retain any of his past to fit in..is this not promoting rascism..that you can only be part of mainstream if you accept mainstream values..

Can mainstream not meet the black man 1/way?Why is that so hard..
The black man has a lot offer that the white man is so desperately needs to learn..for heavens sake..just look at the way the 'whiteys' have comprehensively ruined our climate and our waterways our soils and on it goes...he inherited a pristine land after 60,000 yrs of previous black occupation..so YOU tell me who the REAL Australian is Mr Boaz_David?..man who has no respect for his 'house' doesnt deserve one..he has displayed the greatest disrespect towards his home and the pple who looked after it for the longest time and then he says..hey come join my club? Thats funny.

I believe we need to learn mutual respect..but so far the pendulum on this issue has been to far in favour of whites..while we have threads such as this..mutual repspect is a long way off..

Kartiya you need to get your priorities in order..cant be a little bit pregnant.

Sharkfin..I usually read your posts with interest...not this time.

I've tried to resist, honest I have.

But the title of this piece "ONE NATION, ONE CULTURE, ONE RACE....." is just so-o-o-o-o reminiscent of:

"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer"

The irony is just too delicious.

Where Boaz is trying to impose his values on a country in which his own history is relatively brief, the original Führer was trying to get rid of his exact equivalent - the parvenu - from Germany.

Exquisite.

Pericles.. thanx.. but did you read the article following the heading ?

Surely you have some view on it... being English and all.
I don't mind criticism, you know that.
Your National Socialism theme is moot, because as I said to some other poster.. Hitler wanted to KILL the 'sub humans' as he saw (and made) them.

I just want a better and more homogenous Australia through a broadening and INCLUSIVE genetic pool.

Taurus... you made a very good point.. the black man DOES have heaps to teach us, and what better way to do that than through kinship relationships where there is overlapping between white and black ?
Perhaps a very good START would be incorporating in our education system examples of exactly how we have stuffed things up (land use etc) and how the black fella approach was so much better ? This would go a long way to 'undemonizing' the black fella and raising respect for him in the whitefella community.

My only criticism of people 'remaining black' is not the blackness, or the culture, it is simply the emphasis on 'difference' which seems ok on the surface, but as I have already pointed out, is a time bomb waiting for some smart English person like Pericles grandfathers generation to come along and use 'divide and rule' against all of us.

Any seditious or power hungry group could exploit 2 things
1/ The differences.
2/ The grievances.

just exactly as Nosy-t pointed out.

Do you not agree that this is a potential problem ? If you agree, then do you have a workable and historically tested alternative ?
I'm waiting with baited breath :)

Simply 'saying' "We must all get along" has not to this point made it work.

Whats the matter BOAZ..not the answer you were expecting from Pericles?

Im with him I have to say..

He is so spot on..and I hate to state the obvious...and so I wont.

If you are a One Nation supporter and you have admitted it, then that speaks for itself..just as it has done for you.

Not too smart, bringing my grandfather into this discussion Boaz.

>>the emphasis on 'difference' which seems ok on the surface, but as I have already pointed out, is a time bomb waiting for some smart English person like Pericles grandfathers generation to come along and use 'divide and rule' against all of us.<<

My grandfather, as I told you a while back, was a brownshirt and rallied with Oswald Mosley in the thirties. But the theme was not "divide and rule" for grandad, or many who marched with him, but "employment".

You see, the 1930s recession bit particularly hard on the working class, and Mosley's tactic with them was to give their struggle some dignity, and get them to follow him. Grandpa Pericles gave little or no thought to the demonization that was going on; he just wanted a job.

So, when you say:

>>Your National Socialism theme is moot, because as I said to some other poster.. Hitler wanted to KILL the 'sub humans' as he saw (and made) them<<

... I assume you are suggesting that it was only the killing that gave National Socialism a bad name. Because I can assure you, grandad wasn't dressing up to kill anyone either.

Does that make Mosley "OK" in your eyes? Does it make his "in loco Hitleris" stance acceptable to you? Perhaps you feel that he has been horribly misjudged by history?

He certainly felt that way.

The National Socialism theme, as you describe it, is far from "moot" in this situation, especially given your tendency to rabble-rouse a la Mosley at the drop of a shiny-peaked Waffen SS cap.

The main issue I still have with your stance is that it doesn't allow people to be different.

It might be the christian ideal, to have a homogenised society, all singing from the same hymnsheet (sorry!), but I happen to believe that it is diversity of ideas, opinions, cultures, ambitions, physical features, mental faculties and spiritualism that makes this world - and this country - an interesting, challenging, frustrating, exciting, demanding - and therefore tolerable - place to live.

Pericles, my reference to your grandad was purely generational.. not personal. I was alluding to the practice in the British Empire of captializing on ethnic divisions in colonial territories.

Taurus.. this is not about 'One Nation' the political party, its about a more homogenous society. Even if it WERE about 'One Nation' that would not matter. The point is the idea and its validity or lack thereof, no matter who holds it.

Pericles has stated that diversity causes all kinds of good outcomes, and he is indeed right. But at the same time, can any of you seriously challenge the fundamental truth of diversity being easily exploitable ? and do you have a solution for this apart from simply wishful thinking ?

I've made a case for 'Intermarraige and assimilation'. The responses should be "Yes, we agree and this is why" OR... "No, we disagree and here are the reasons"

The reasons in either case should be open to challenge and we must avoid simply degenerating into a "ooh..ahhh you look like a One Nation supporter/Bash Boaz feeding frenzy.
I expect to see more reasoning and justification or negation from here on.

Please refer my last post and agree or disagree and give some relative weight to the expected positive/negative outcomes.

Indeed, Pericles. Hear, hear!

I've noticed that Boaz's posts often express sentiments that are perilously close to those articulated by Mosley (and worse), but I don't often comment about them for fear of transgressing Godwin's Law. However, I'm not all that worried about that in this instance - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law :)

I also agree with you and others about the utter necessity of diversity *within* our culture and society in order to sustain them both. Contrary to the views of the ethnic cleansers and assimilationists, I think that the kind of homogeneous, monochromatic society that some advocate is not only a manifest impossibility to achieve, but is undesirable in the extreme.

I think it was Pericles who said above that it's all the little differences that make life worth living as individuals, and I'll add that diversity is the source of adaptation, innovation and invention.

Vive la différence, I say!

C.J. I agree about the richness of divesity to an extent. If we could maintain the 'different' mob at managable levels, all would be well.
Now.. you might take exception to that term 'managable'.. but I ask you.. lift yourself out from Australia and place yourself in say Malaysia, where the populations of 'us' (Malays/Muslims for example) is aroung 54% and the population of 'them' (Chinese) is like 40% and the rest are 'other races'.

I was flying from Vung Tau to Butterworth in 1969 in a Herc (RAAF) when the pilot told us Chinese/Malay race riots had erupted. It was very ugly for a while.
Key elements were:
a) Chinese had economic power.
b) Malays had political power. (but were economically and educationally marginalized by Chinese)

Put those together and you eventually get.... 1969

Have you looked into the various race based troubles of Indonesia ? How many have been killed. Have you scrutinized the development of the massacres in Ambon and Sulawesi ? and seen how 'shady elements' have stirred up both sides exactly as I've outlined in previous posts ?

"Managable" means controlled numbers such that there can never be a threat to peace. Even now, with the Lakemba ghetto, and numbers being relatively small to our population.. we had Cronulla. Is this the diversity you want ?

Neither you nor Pericles have adequately challenged my point that "Diversity is a time bomb" when difference is exploited by the same 'shady elements' which were at work in Indonesia.

So.. in conclusion,

1/ I agree that diversity is beneficial but....in managable numbers.
2/ Assimilation is a worthy goal as it reduces the potential for trouble, and elminates 'race/culture' based competition.

Please address the Time Bomb argument with something more substantial than sentimentality and 'we like chinese food' kind of argument.

Despite the apocalyptic fantasies of some, I remain confident that we are not on the brink of social mayhem and communal conflict - a la the 1969 riots, Ambon, Sulawesi etc. Actually, I happen to know quite a bit about the historical and cultural contexts of those deplorable incidents, and they bear little resemblance to the situation we have in Australia.

This is despite the efforts of some in our midst to foment mob violence on ethnic and religious grounds, and I'm afraid that dear old Boaz is one of the chief culprits, in this forum at least. Barely a day goes by when we're not subjected to a rant that demonises or marginalises Muslims in particular, and non-Anglos in general - often overtly encouraging a replication of the disgusting events in Cronulla. From what I know of the Christian religion, this constant encouragement of communal strife seems just a tad hypocritical.

The irony is, of course, that in the absence of "shady elements" (like Boaz, for example) who wish to stir up mob violence to further their own agendas, then it is inevitable that within a few generations we will have the kind of 'melting pot' society that he supposedly advocates. However, this end is delayed by the increasing attacks by members of the dominant culture on minority groups, which result in hardening of communal and religious boundaries and the radicalisation of some individuals located within them.

C.J. you make a reasonable case for what you are presenting, but I feel you are not considering the full picture.

The sense of cultural alienation is NOW a fact among Anglo Australians. Have a read of the feedback opinion forums on the major papers. Age, Australian SMH and Daily Telegraph, and Melbourne Herald.

You adopt the view 'she'll be right mate' which is ok, except that again..I think you are neglecting certain realities. Not all cultures in our melting pot are the same.
TODAY for example there was an article about Marrickville council having to consider signage on businesses being enforced to be in ENGLISH... why is this even an issue ? Our language IS English.
One of the Greens Councillors Saed Khan describes the idea of enforcing English (allowing ethnic language subtitle) on signage is:
a) A bad idea.
b) Possibly Illegal.

The mind truly boggles. "Bad idea" to enable most passers by to know what type of business you are or services you offer ? good grief.

Now..with this kind of mentality at work in our midst, I'm suprised you classify me with the 'dark forces' mob. The reality is... denying 90% of the population the opportunity to understand a commercial sign in a public place IS RACISM... yes.. capitals.. sorry but you don't seem to be 'getting' this.

I've spoken with the Mayor of Marrickville and he requested me put my case in writing and was very sympathetic. He is at one with the view of enforcing English on signage. Hoooray.

So, clearly, in contrast to your view that 'in a couple of generations' we will all be mixed up... the evidence is to the contrary.
So, I remain unconvinced that my articles proposals here are not needed.

Boaz, you are guilty of generalizing from the particular, and using those generalizations to promote action agaist minority groups that you disapprove of for religious reasons. That is rabble-rousing.

You claim:

>>The sense of cultural alienation is NOW a fact among Anglo Australians<<

Some Australians, perhaps.

All Australians? No, because I for one don't feel alienated.

Most Australians? A few Australians? A tiny bolshie handful of Australians?

We simply don't know, do we?

>>Have a read of the feedback opinion forums on the major papers. Age, Australian SMH and Daily Telegraph, and Melbourne Herald.<<

No self-selected sample is statistically valid, Boaz, nor yet is one that has been intermediated by a newspaper with an agenda to... sell more newspapers. The best you can say is that "there are in fact some Australians who write to the newspapers who perceive themselves to be alienated".

On a more serious note.

It is not constructive to take isolated incidents such as Cronulla, in which no-one was seriously injured, let alone killed, and compare them with the 1969 Chinese/Malay race riots, where the official death toll was 196, the Ambon massacre (I presume you mean the one in 2002) which "[killed]up to 21 people by stabbing, decapitation or burning them alive, as well as wounding many more", or Sulawesi, where about 200 Muslims were massacred.

To make these events analogous, and draw the conclusion that "diversity is a time bomb", is nothing less than rabble-rousing.

My view is that diversity plus rabble-rousing has the potential to create disturbances.

Continuous, determined, bigoted and religiously-motivated rabble-rousing has the potential to incite people to kill other people.

Diversity plus tolerance, understanding and acceptance, on the other hand, has the capacity to both allow people to live in peace, and retain the broad-based benefits that I described before.

Pericles... you also make a reasonable case. Picking at my particulars as you did assists in seeing potential holes in the general.

So, I'm forced to reflect on your words.

You didn't comment on the 'example of a trend' which I cited regarding the language of signage. This is probably more telling.
I take this as evidence that 'diversity' left unchecked, will become discrimination. Discrimination on a communal scale becomes socially problematic. The trend exacerbates 'Them/us'.

Perhaps if you were an english speaking resident of Marrickville, you might take a modified view of this issue, and the idea of social alienation ?

I recall visiting South West Sydney a year or 2 back, after having not lived there for decades. The difference was like arriving at the destination of a long journey to a different country without having taken in the scenery along the way. It was slam bam thankyou maam, welcome to little Pakistan or something. Even service station attendants dressed and spoke differently. I truly felt I had arrived in a foreign land.

I think your (and C.J.s) views are overly optimistic. I'd love to agree with both of you, but I simply cannot see it happening.
During Tampa, the 'particular' alienation you suggest cannot be generalized was pretty general down here.(Vic) I deliberately did my own survey of just about every person I met.. at random and the voices were unanimous.... 'send them away', and for the reasons of experiencing 'social invasion'.

Anyway.. about me and rabble rousing. This topic was begun to point to a direction which would avoid even the possibility of such things.
Higher levels of cross cultural marraige and networking should not deny us the richness of the diversity of culture, it just incorporates it in a less threatening way. I guarantee all the foods and many agreeable social habits would filter through to the 'New Australian' of tomorrow. We simply won't have 'Little Italy' and "little Greece" in our midst as separate entities.

I think it is on the matter of signage that we differ most on this topic, Boaz.

My first experience of this was in London. I had business reasons to check out a branch of Hongkong & Shanghai Bank in London - I think it may have been Gerrard Street, but it was some thirty years ago - and found the street signage at least 60% Chinese. The location was classic inner-city "Chinatown", with its own restaurants, grocery stores, tailors - even Banks - covered in Chinese characters.

I did not find this offensive. Nor do I find it offensive or disturbing today.

Bear in mind that it was also the time of the second oil "crisis", when the Middle Eastern countries began accumulating unaccustomed wealth. Much of this was finding its way into London, where Middle Eastern concerns were buying major hotels, and beginning to "colonise" a strip to the north of Hyde Park Corner. Arabic signs on shops became commonplace there too.

So in short, I have been long accustomed to this, and find it totally normal behaviour.

But there again, I have absolutely no problem with Greeks continuing to identify themselves with Greece, or Italians continuing to identify themselves with Italy. Their contribution to Australia has been in their differences, not in their desire to somehow become "instant anglos".

Think of it this way. If Australia had insisted that every immigrant shed the "foreign" elements of their character at the border, and were forbidden from expressing or demonstrating that they had, in fact, come from a different country, how impoverished our "culture" would quickly have become.

It is a form of inbreeding, where not only do the inbred traits become more exaggerated, but the body as a whole begins to be susceptible to sickness.

Pericles.. I have no argument with BI lingual signs... I have a BIG issue with mono lingual signs which are not in the language of the host country. This should be common sense.

You are portraying my suggestion of intermarraige in the most extreme ways.. "Forget your country of origin when you arrive at the border" is not exactly what I'm saying.

Let me ask more closely to home.. would you have a problem with your daughter or son marrying someone of Greek or Italian or Asian heritage ?
I sure hope not :)

As long as we don't emphasize diversity to the point of alienating sub cultures, these kinds of things should (as C.J. said)..happen in any case.

How are we less enriched culturally by allowing our ethnic roots to fade and embracing an all encompassing 'Australian' identity ?

If we are so desperate for 'difference' we can jump on a plain and fly to Tasmania..oops.. I mean Singapore etc.

I think on balance, history is on my side in this. Diversity always breeds and reinforces racism and cultural polarization. It's a matter of
a) Degree.
b) Vulnerability to exploitation.

The very fact that some people want to insist on monolingual non English signage in Marrackville is a clear and unambigious 'sign' of racist exclusionist attitudes. If it is 'not' that.. please explain how it isn't when by definition, racial discrimination is the treatment of others less favorably on the basis of their race or language.
This should be good :

Boaz:

"As long as we don't emphasize diversity to the point of alienating sub cultures, these kinds of things should (as C.J. said)..happen in any case."

That is a complete distortion of what I actually wrote, which was

"The irony is, of course, that in the absence of "shady elements" (like Boaz, for example) who wish to stir up mob violence to further their own agendas, then it is inevitable that within a few generations we will have the kind of 'melting pot' society that he supposedly advocates. However, this end is delayed by the increasing attacks by members of the dominant culture on minority groups, which result in hardening of communal and religious boundaries and the radicalisation of some individuals located within them."

i.e. the exact opposite.

With respect to the contrived isue about signs in Marrickville shops, it's interesting that the shop that apparently most incenses the dog-whistling mayor deals exclusively in Asian-language videos (see http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sign-of-the-times-plan-to-require-english-on-shops/2006/10/22/1161455611143.html ).

What exactly would the point be in them advertising in English? In the case of other shops, surely it'a a case for the market - if insufficient potential customers can read their signage, then business will abviously amend their signs accordingly, or they'll go broke. This is well discussed at http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/10/23/2896/#more-2896 .

Boaz has the wrong end of the stick... yet again.

Boaz, you write:

>>I have no argument with BI lingual signs... I have a BIG issue with mono lingual signs which are not in the language of the host country.<<

The signs in Gerrard Street were/are monolingual. I had/have no problem with that. I do not find it insulting that people choose to communicate with each other in their native tongue, and that they perceive no value in providing me with a translation - presumably on the basis that the information would be of no value to me anyway.

>>"Forget your country of origin when you arrive at the border" is not exactly what I'm saying.<<

But Boaz, when you protest - as you have, many times, on this forum - that you come across Greek people who still regard themselves as Greek, that is precisely what you are saying.

>>I think on balance, history is on my side in this. Diversity always breeds and reinforces racism and cultural polarization.<<

On balance, I think you are totally and utterly wrong. Let us take Edwardian England as an example. They were, in that golden age before the first world war, almost a caricature of Englishness. The upper classes still roamed their estates and their daughters "came out" as debutantes. Cockneys were lovable, Yorkshiremen practical, Tynesiders dour... the list of cliches goes on.

Now think for a moment the absolute melting-pot of countries, cultures and histories that made that society over the centuries...

Diversity created the culture that for a brief moment in history made the English relatively important in world terms. It didn't last - nothing does - but that doesn't detract from the underlying theme and message: diversity is a positive force for good, if you allow it to be.

>>The very fact that some people want to insist on monolingual non English signage in Marrackville<<

Correction: at issue is the council's insistence that an English translation is provided.

Dear Pericles
my arguments have been described as 'most impressive' by a key figure in Marrickville and he requested that I forward the email to all counsellors and expressed appreciation for my support. Just put down the phone.

Clearly we are at odds on this issue. Just as we are on the issue of domestic pets :) our cat...oops... 'the cat which freely lives with us by its own choice' has had kittens.. and there is a veritable love -fest going on with us adoring them... and she, the mother enjoying her newfound fame... all family. She even rewards us with catching the odd rabbit... or rat...

On this topic issue I won't seek to persuade you any further as I think I've covered the ground adequately. All I can say is that you have neglected the pathway, and only looked at the end of the journey.. all the intrigue which went on between the Nobility and their connections to outside powers... c'mon man.. you know how much trouble that caused. Even the RC/Anglican issue..... thats 'difference' and look how many people lost their heads over that.

All in all, I appreciate your input otherwise how could I re-think ideas.

C.J. seems to think you have dealt my argument a mortal blow, and said as much in the "don't be different" thread, referring readers to here