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The Forum > Article Comments > ‘Ockham’s Razor’, a program about science or a soapbox for prejudice? > Comments

‘Ockham’s Razor’, a program about science or a soapbox for prejudice? : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 5/1/2010

It is not good enough to raise the spectre of the trial of Galileo to prove that Christianity is essentially antagonistic to natural science.

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"Christians have a stake in atheism in that they do not believe in the existence of an intelligent supernatural being."

Sorry, Peter, I must have missed the poll that came up with these results. Would you like to explain -- with evidence -- just what proportion of your fellow(?) Christians 'do not believe in the existence of an intelligent supernatural being'? You and Karen Armstrong -- anyone else?

From an outsider's viewpoint, though, it's fascinating watching a religion try and rewrite its own history like this to survive in the face of education and rationalism. It's rather like watching a leech squirm and shrivel under a pile of salt.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 6:21:41 AM
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So much has already been said, so I think I'll just focus on the historical side of things:

Plenty of the clergy supported Gallileo in his trial?
Nice- but the problem is he was made to stand trial for contradicting the church AT ALL- thus effectively, the church was inhibiting science and discovery. Using your own Godwin-argument, I could say that it would be the same as someone in WW2 Germany being arrested for, say, doing a bauhouse-style artwork, but had a few supporters/sympathisers in the Nazi government as character witnesses.

Our system based on Christianity?
Sigh- I don't even believe you actually don't know that this is flat out FALSE. Pagan greeks (before Plato- who himself contributed nothing to western culture anyway), various mathemeticians, scientists (real ones), inventors being the origin; PAGAN Romans effectively creating most of the political structures and institutions we use today, and everything else coming out of secular persons and institutions from the enlightenment era.
The only staunch believer who made a definite contribution to scientific knowledge- unlikely to have been made by a secularist (Because, as established, they were somewhat inhibited by the church) was Mendel who discovered genetics.
Oh, and lets not forget the Saxons, vikings and Normans who established most of the legal/property standards that became the blueprints of modern laws.
Basically, as far as Western society (ignoring Asian societies that made their own scientific understanding), our sciences are based on Greek, Roman and to some extent Chinese and Norse engineering, mathematicians and discoveries, our culture and system of living are based on Greek, Roman, Viking, Saxon and Norman principles- not from Israel/Palestine. ALL of these civilizations were NON-CHRISTIAN. Scientific advancement didn't occur much at all until the Church began to lose its power in the 1500s.

Not impressed- your own article would not pass the high journalistic standards you demand from others.
Posted by King Hazza, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 9:29:11 AM
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Why should you be upset because Robin Williams quite rightly criticizes, and makes fun of, dingbat religionists on a regular basis when everybody who listens to his programs knows that Williams is an atheist---and good on him too.

The prayer on the lips of all scientists who are also religious (and there are lots of them):

Please "God" send us more information so that we can really prove that you exist.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 9:47:07 AM
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Individual,

If you really want to know how we date rocks and rock paintings there is a huge literature on the subject. I suggest you start with the Britannica.

Not that I believe for even one moment that your professed desire to know is sincere.

Sellick:

"Christians ...do not believe in the existence of an intelligent supernatural being."

Perhaps you don’t Sellick. But for most Christians, Muslims and Jews their belief is all about a great psychopath in the sky.

"Rather, they [Christians] are influenced by a history and a poetry that penetrates to the depth of what it means to be human."

My antipathy towards Christianity has nothing to do with poetry. It is based on a strong suspicion that, given half a chance, you guys would impose a totalitarian system on us that is as cruel and unjust as Marxism, Nazism or the current regime in Saudi Arabia.

In fact I suspect that a Christian theocracy would be indistinguishable from Taleban ruled Afghanistan.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 10:22:06 AM
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"Marxism" a "totalitarian system", Stevenlmeyer?

Marxism is a humanitarian philosophy that, whenever it has been attempted, has been vilified by the opposition and bastardised at home. Corruption infiltrates every system.
Posted by Squeers, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 10:47:42 AM
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a freind of mine spent some time in the early 60s touching up the art work at ayres rock with her aborigonal freinds from alice springs and ive been there and when they mentoined the age of the paintings it made me wonder. Iknow that caves in europe have very old paintings but they are much better protected than the ones in austalia
I'm interested that you know so little of political history and the ifluence of christian thinkers on freedom and rights not that they have all the good but your putting them along side hitler and others shows you either don't know much or you are not willing to give credit were it is due . agument about merit or otherwise is always better than insult. Chrisianity has generally been about obedience to goverments
Posted by dibbles, Wednesday, 6 January 2010 6:50:26 PM
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