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The Forum > Article Comments > Biofuels: why we don’t need them > Comments

Biofuels: why we don’t need them : Comments

By Mike Pope, published 14/12/2009

Unless biofuels are able to compete with electricity there is no economic reason for their production for transport.

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I guess you do not mean it, however, this sounds a bit confusing:

"France, generate nearly all their electricity needs without using fossil fuels"

France generates nearly all of it electricity with nuclear, which is much more harmful than fossil fuels, and OTOH nuclear fuel supply will come to an end even before fossil fuels. One third of fuel for nuclear power plants comes from atomic bombs, and once that is finished many plants will have to be switched off.

Australia would be in a position to generate all electricity for transport and more by solar or wave energy, maybe wind as well. Desertec will be build in Europe, and they are now extending the activities to Australia, see http://www.desertec-australia.org/
Posted by renysol, Monday, 14 December 2009 11:16:30 AM
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It keeps coming up that we should go nuclear but I have a problem some one can help me I am sure.

As I understand it will take 20 years to build our first plant, and how many do we need?
Can we build them fast enough?
And do we have the resources to do so?

What plants are commercially available, or even in the next decade? So that uranium lasts 50,000 years, fusion is 50 years away and may be always 50 years away.
Generation four ,do not exist, and prototype is 10 years away and when can we start building one?

How much uranium is their?
And of course there is peak uranium some countries have already run out.
Will we have the oil for shipping?

And we have not solved the waste disposal.

Diverting waste to bio-fuels - is that not used for other purposes, eg. compost or landfill with methane extraction?
Posted by PeterA, Monday, 14 December 2009 12:12:25 PM
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PeterA, The beauty of biogas is that you still have your phosphate etc. left after gas production from agricultural wastes and this can be recycled back into agriculture.

"Renew" - what are the phosphate requirements of production of biodiesel from algae? What level of recycling of nutrients is possible?
Posted by michael_in_adelaide, Monday, 14 December 2009 12:18:49 PM
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In Australia, compressed natural gas provides a medium term alternative to petrol and natural gas provides an alternative to coal. Gas is not renewable but it's relatively abundant in Australia and is cleaner than either petrol or coal. Gas seems the most likely way we'll go in the short term while more sustainable options are sorted out.
Posted by Claudiecat, Monday, 14 December 2009 12:21:16 PM
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Mike Pope’s article digs itself into a ditch at the very beginning:
“Biofuels come in two basic forms: ethanol produced from agricultural crops such as sugar or grains and mostly used as a partial replacement or additive to petrol; and biodiesel derived from animal fat or vegetable oils produced by plants such as safflower, rape or palm oil.”

Biofuel does not necessarily come at the expense of Agricultural production; and it need not be from the algae mentioned. Before writing the article, it might have been appropriate to get more up to speed on the issue. A start would be accessing information on the CSIRO initiated project, continued by Barney Foran, of producing methanol from vegetation via pyrolysis. This project is a multi-function approach dealing with three issues: provision of fuel for Australian transport, providing employment for communities in decline, and remediating degrading landscapes – and, in total, carbon-neutral. Providing the economic ratbags don’t keep us growing forever in numbers, this probably has the potential to provide for whatever proportion of our transport needs Australia wants it to adopt.

There are pluses and minuses whichever way we proceed in transport fuels; and a multi-pronged approach seems essential.

“Importantly, these batteries can be rapidly recharged, in the case of vehicle batteries within minutes” the author says.
Now that is quite a bit of energy en-route from one place to another – enough to push half a tonne of stuff from Sydney to Melbourne. So much, so soon, that it is close to an explosive rate.
I hope that safety factors have been adequately addressed. The old petrol bowser seems a friendly companion compared to the excitement of being nearby during a re-charge and having any appreciation of potential for mishap.
Posted by colinsett, Monday, 14 December 2009 12:23:04 PM
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I have read, on I think the Oil Drum, that the efficiency from mine to
wheel is significantly better than oil well to wheel.
Try a search on the oil drum I think you will find it about a year ago.

I just don't believe a charge in minutes. The cables would be so thick
you might need two or three people to plug them in.
Work it back from the ampere/hour at say 415 volt if your heavy charger
was built in, or if not at say 110 Volt DC if not.
It is in the thousands of amps.

The problem with biofuels is fertiliser. You won't have crop rotation
so you will use fertiliser, probably from natural gas, which we are
flat out flogging to the Chinese !
The politicians have to be really stupid !

No, electric cars will come, not because they are inefficient but
because there will be nothing else that will fit the economic model
that we will be living under.

To illustrate how stupid the politicians are they are planning an
extra airport for Sydney !
The IATA group at Copenhagen is talking of 60% growth in aviation
over the next 20 years ! Talk about off with the fairies !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 14 December 2009 3:55:25 PM
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