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The Forum > Article Comments > Copenhagen: what we must demand > Comments

Copenhagen: what we must demand : Comments

By Mike Pope, published 26/11/2009

The world can not be held to ransom by the greed or self interest of the largest economies.

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I could not agree more.
Posted by Andy1, Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:48:58 AM
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"The world can not be held to ransom by the greed or self interest of" the scientists and eco fascists.

there, fixed.

"If they can not agree on measures to avoid the catastrophes of global warming, they must be compelled to do so."

Compelled .. do you reckon the US can be compelled? China? Russia?

"If Copenhagen fails to reach agreements necessary to ensure human survival, the UN General Assembly must impose and enforce targets which do so."

How ridiculous.
Posted by odo, Thursday, 26 November 2009 11:11:47 AM
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‘The world can not be held to ransom by the greed or self interest of the largest economies.’

Oh yes it can…and almost definitely will be.

Large companies rule, not governments. This is a profound problem all over the democratic world.

Even if governments were inclined to implement strong and effective measures to deal with climate change, do you think they’d be able to if the multinationals and big business sectors didn’t want them to?

Anyway, so-called democratic governments are in bed with big business. So they are not likely to stand up in strong opposition to them in the first place.
Posted by Ludwig, Thursday, 26 November 2009 12:53:20 PM
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"If Copenhagen fails to reach agreements necessary to ensure human survival, the UN General Assembly must impose and enforce targets which do so."

Another vapid posting by Mike Pope. The resolutions of the General assembly are entirely non binding, and the security council which has more powers is subject to the veto of china, the usa, GB, france and russia.

Rudd having done his best to alienate indonesia, china and India from Australia, will have almost zero leverage at the meeting, and whether or not we have an ETS in place will probably not even be remembered. (though I have no doubt that Kevin will take an hour to preen and state the obvious). We have neither the right nor capability to demand anything.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 26 November 2009 1:43:40 PM
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Hey Mikey, take a look at the Wall St Journal, Washington Post and NY Times. AGW is a sham.
The hoax has been made part of the pubic record due to the publishing of the CMU data base maintained at St Albins Uni in England. Also whistleblowers in Canada are releasing documentation showing how the few "leaders of the hoax" have been able to keep down the sceptics and control the IPCC.

and now Cruddy boy still wants to pass our ETS so that he can get billions of new taxes to pay back the over spnding on the stimulas.
Posted by Bruce, Thursday, 26 November 2009 3:35:30 PM
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What about the leaked emails from the Hadley Centre? They have admitted to doctoring the science on AGW and find it a travesty that they cannot explain the why the planet has cooled over the last 10yrs.

AGW is a lie and scam promoted by the proponents of the new world order to pay for their undemocratic corporate rule.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 26 November 2009 3:47:49 PM
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So as we approach crunch time, we look to the bridge for clear decisive action.
But no such action will be taken, because of radical uncertainty that permeates the whole debate on global climate change, at best there in no one on the bridge, and those that are raising the alarm are failing to relay damage assessment to a captain that is beset by problems, that makes those of a floundering ship seem trivial.

We must not discount the planets ability for radical simpatico adaptation or second guess our earth’s superior Eco system which has survived for eons in hostile space environments. The part we play may be minuscule in comparison, however misguided in the extreme.

Burdened by the enormity of the task, we have fallen into a malaise, we wait for science to reconcile, yet know that this time it will take not only all our ingenuity, but a truly collective global effort.

Radical c o 2 emission level reduction is the only game in town and must have a timescale that allows for Global adaptation, coupled with nuclear and inclusive renewable sustainable Solutions, that measure up to the extent of the problem.

(Some Solutions for the mitigation of long-term radical adverse global Climate change)

1. Make sure emissions peak in 2012 and decrease as rapidly as possible towards zero after that.

2. Developed countries must make cuts of 50 percent on their 1990 carbon emissions by 2030 with mandatory regulation by United Nations.

3. Developing countries must slow the growth of emissions by 20 percent by 2040, with support from industrialized nations

There is an inexorable link between global Eco-equity and global financial equity.

It is clear there is a need to link global sustainable economies, with global Eco-sustainability.

Failure to coalesce, for the mitigation of global adverse climatic change, in the short term, will force the planet to make that decision for us, whatever action we take then, will ultimately benefit the planet.

Long live, the planet.
Posted by Philipclarkson, Thursday, 26 November 2009 5:45:51 PM
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Copenhagen: what we must demand:

1. Public access to the datasets on which the fate of billions of dollars worth of our money depend.

2. Transparency in the manipulation of these datasets and the conclusions that are drawn from them.

3. Even-handed treatment of evidence from all sides.

4. Public apologies from the liars and conspirators at Hadley who have been shown to be manipulating shonky data to attain predefined conclusions, and from all those politicians and activists who relied on that data to abuse and vilify their opponents -- including our own dear PM.

THEN we can start debating the science.
Posted by Jon J, Thursday, 26 November 2009 7:21:51 PM
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reveal the real numbers

Selected excerpts..of George Monbiot’s..article..in the UK Guardian/are reproduced..below.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-new-deniers-uk-greenie-george-monbiot-most-of-the-environmentalists-i-know-have-gone-into-denial-pretending-the-climate-email-leak-isnt-a-crisis-wont-make-it-go-away.html

The New..‘Deniers’:..UK Greenie George Monbiot:..‘Most of the environmentalists I know have gone into denial’...'Pretending the climate email leak,,isn’t a crisis won’t make it go away’..By George Monbiot/UK Guardian/November 25,2009

George Monbiot Excerpt:..I have seldom felt so alone.,,Confronted with crisis,..most of the environmentalists..I know have ..one into denial.

It is true that climate change deniers have made wild claims which the material can’t possibly support..(the end of global warming,..the death of climate science)...But it is also true that the emails are very damaging.

The response of the greens and most of the scientists I know is profoundly ironic,..as we spend so much of our time confronting other people’s denial.

Pretending that this isn’t a real crisis..isn’t going to make it go away...Nor is an attempt to justify the emails with technicalities.

We’ll be able to get past this only by grasping reality,..apologising where appropriate and demonstrating that it cannot happen again...[...]

One of the most damaging emails..was sent by the head of the climatic research unit,..Phil Jones...He wrote “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report.

..'Kevin and I will keep them out somehow..even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!” [...]

Even so,..his message looks awful...It gives the impression of confirming a potent meme circulated by those who campaign against taking action on climate change:..that the IPCC process is biased.

However good the detailed explanations may be,..most people aren’t going to follow or understand them. Jones’s statement,..on the other hand,..is stark and easy to grasp...[...]

If you take the wording literally, ..n one case he appears to be suggesting that emails subject to a request be deleted,..which means that he seems to be advocating potentially criminal activity.

Even if no other message had been hacked,..this would be sufficient to ensure his resignation as head of the unit.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-zealand-climate-data-shows-clear-evidence-of-fraud.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/manufacturing-conensus-why-climategate-hurts-the-warming-faith.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-the-scandal-spreads-the-plot-thickens-the-shame-deepens%e2%80%a6.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/climategate-people-need-to-go-to-jail.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-congress-investigates-climategate-e-mails-this-could-be-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-agw.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/author-points-to-climategate%e2%80%99s-perry-mason-moment.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/i-might-not-know-the-truth-about-climate-change-but-i-recognise-trickery-and-slippery-excuses-when-i-see-them.html
Posted by one under god, Friday, 27 November 2009 7:02:39 AM
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Lets have a real vote again Mike. Kevin Rudd can call a double dissolution and then the main question will be do you want to pay even more taxes? On the basis from some very dodgy science.
New Zealand has also had questions raised about temperatures same as Canada. The ABC is a national disgrace trying to avoid this story and then putting their green mates only to discuss. They will find this will all be counter-productive. So many people, such as myself, feel we are being cheated of our money with a silly tax.
All you greenies stop the power and water to your homes and if you are a majority you will fix the problem overnight.
Posted by JBowyer, Friday, 27 November 2009 1:33:19 PM
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Obama is now head of the UN.It is against the US constitution that their president be head of a foreign body or country.Obama has failed to rescind the patriot act,Bush's presidential orders or habius corpus.He is nothing but a facist dictator like Bush.

This is all about an un-democratic World Govt that is run by the corporate elites.It is totalitarian facism! Free people will not cop it.We will fight to the death.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 27 November 2009 6:50:21 PM
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I am curious how Mike Pope can make such outrageous leaps from a clearly flawed AGW process (the problem), to even more disconnected solutions such as an ETS, a Copenhagen Summit, to a Kyoto II, to a UN mandate for punitive action for non compliance?

How did Mike Pope and so many others fall for the Hadley CRU and IPCC double act?

David Fairburn on wattsupwiththat.com, presents a simple but powerful explanation. He draws a direct parallel with a company prospectus for selling a business and the political science behind AGW Pty Ltd.

The business has traded profitably for two years with AP (annual profit) of $1.0m, in the third year the company fails with a $0.5 m loss. We cover this loss by “averaging” the AP over three years to show AP of $0.5m.

Even better, we can “evidence” an increase in annual turnover (total sales) of 10% p.a. for the prior three years. Now, by applying the $0.5m average over three years we can make a PAP (projected annual profit) say 10 years out to show over a $1.0m in profit levels. Bingo! Sold to loser in the corner.

This is of course a “false prospectus” and a gross distortion of the truth. Unlike a commercial business where there are regulations to protect public interest, the CRU has even been caught out by avoiding scrutiny and tampering with the peer review process.

Skeptics are intuitive pragmatists, we can see some of the data for what it is however, we cannot accept it until and unless the validation process is clean. Ideologically driven pseudo-realists however, are willing to accept the “message” even though the process is compromised.

We know because the AGW Pty Ltd “prospectus” constantly draws our attention to the weaknesses in their case, the processes itself. Data Handling, Peer Review, Consensus, Argument by Authority, and Proselytizing.

When the future generations we are so concerned about finally wise up, Mike Pope will have moved on to the next great cause, quietly giving us the Egyptian wave, pointing to others to avoid his own gullibility and culpability
Posted by spindoc, Saturday, 28 November 2009 9:48:02 AM
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sadly many have been lied to and decieved
i began my final exposure here
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3256#77222

here is the last bit

In other words,..we can reaffirm..that no cause..is worth supporting that/requires deception..for its propagation.

Even more importantly,..we can take back..the environmental-movement.

We can begin to concentrate..on the serious questions
http://www.actionbioscience.org/biotech/pusztai.html
..that need to be asked..about the genetic engineering/technology whereby/..hybrid organisms..and new,..never-before-seen..proteins
http://www.seedsofdeception.com/utility/showArticle/?ObjectID=107&find=proteins&happ=siteAdministrator

..that are.being released..into the biosphere/in a giant,..uncontrolled..experiment..that threatens/the very genome..of life..on this planet.

We can look..into the/environmental causes..of the explosion in cancer..and the staggering drops..in fertility..over the last 50 years,..including the BPA.in our plastics
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=plastic-not-fantastic-with-bisphenol-a
..and the anti-androgens in the water.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1121283/Gender-bending-chemicals-rivers-grow-potent.html

We can examine..regulatory-agencies..that are controlled by the very corporations..they are supposedly/watching over.
http://foodworldorder.blogspot.com/2009/10/why-are-monsanto-insiders-now-appointed.html

We..can begin focusing.,on depleted uranium
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/mettoc.htm
..and..the dumping of/..toxic waste..into the rivers
http://environmentreport.org/story.php?story_id=3199
..and all/of..the issues..that we once knew..were part of/the mandate of/..the real environmental-movement.

Or we can,..as some have,..descend..into petty partisan/politics...We can decide..that lies are OK..if they support..‘our’ side...We can defend the reprehensible actions..of the CRU researchers/and rally around the green fla.. that has long since..been captured/by the enemy.

It is a simple decision..to make,..but one that we must make quickly, before the argument..can be spun away/and environmentalism..can go back to business..as usual.

We are at a crossroads..of history...And make no mistake,..history will be..the final judge of our actions...So I leave you today with a simple question:..Which side of history do you want to be on?

It is strange..how you can be hijacked..without even knowing it…Look Here http://www.bailoutmainstreetnow.com
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 28 November 2009 10:14:01 AM
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