The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Biofuel starvation > Comments

Biofuel starvation : Comments

By Geoff Ward, published 14/3/2008

Will the developed world continue to grind grain for ethanol in the face of mass starvation?

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. All
Harry Shutt in both The Decline of Capitalism and The Trouble with Capitalism Zed Books 2005 and 1998 respectively, argues that contrary to the paradigms Keynes and that currently used in which lack of demand and government interference were targeted as causal for failure, the cause is really the accumulated capital having no place to invest which will produce a return of 10% or more Thus increased expectation of Government bail outs, as is currently happening in America, and less money for infra structure which underpins the economy. Thus electricity, water, education, prisons, pornography, military support even mercenary soldiers and more have been seen as places in which invested capital can make a return. Always demanded is participation by the citizens purchase or government aid. Doubt this then look at the figures for the Government expenditure on such items.
Biofuels are one such perceived possibility. People may starve but as long as they can be kept from disrupting the economy they are no worry but there is a need for increased populatioin both for labour and to purchase the goods produced.
We need another paradigm but overthrowing the existing elite having interest in and profit from the current paradigm this will be hard.
Human affairs only seem to change when conditions become bad enough to affect even the elite. Thus I hold little hope of Biofuels becoming unattractive, despite their possible role in producing char ( C ) which sequestered could help balance our CO2 production.
Continued
Posted by untutored mind, Sunday, 16 March 2008 9:57:41 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There are alternatives to liquid fuels. Cleaner and quieter electric vehicles, for example. Perhaps instead of setting greenhouse gas emission targets, the powers that be should be thinking a level up and setting technology targets.

Would we be as fearful of a developing world using electric transport powered by low carbon energy?
Posted by Fester, Sunday, 16 March 2008 10:03:32 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Involved would be not only tasking account of environmental audits in the economic process as suggested by Daly and Cobb 1998 For the Common Good, energy efficiency as suggested by Lovins from 1973 on but reduced population with a life purpose other than accumulation of material items.
As I said not much chance until we have a catastrophe!
Posted by untutored mind, Sunday, 16 March 2008 10:04:49 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Goeff, I once followed an internet discussion between Ethiopians and Eritreans
and it was rather interesting. They are not silly and are fully aware that the West
is full of suckers wearing their hearts on their sleeves. They know that they
only need to dangle a few starving babies in front of Western TV cameras and
hey presto, over the horizon arrive boatloads of free food!

Whilst you keep shipping them, they will keep on screwing you and a lot of people
in Africa make a lot of money out of all of that free food.

Nobody is advocating population control, its about giving third world women their
rights to make choices. In Africa it is men, politicians and ministers of religion who
decide about family planning, abortion etc. Why should third world women not have
the choices that Western women have?

I watched a documentary on CNN the other night, about Nigerian women.
The reporter was rather shocked, as on her first day there, four women approached her,
offering to give her their babies for free, as they clearly could not cope with all
the kids that they have. Yet as we can see, when given a choice, women will opt
for smaller families, for good reasons.

The answer to third world hunger is to grow more food in the third world. They have
land, they have rainfall, they have people. Sadly it has been Western Govts such
as the EU and US, who subsidised food production to such an extent, that it drove
many third world farmers out of business. So now Afghan farmers grow poppies
instead of wheat, Mexican farmers gave up growing corn, due to dumped US corn.

The present biofuel story in the West, is only page 1 of what is to come. Already
I have friends who power all their farm vehicles with canola oil, which they have
grown. If the Straits of Hormuz close tomorrow, it won’t bother them, unlike
the rest of you, who will be walking. So energy security is a huge issue here.
Posted by Yabby, Sunday, 16 March 2008 1:50:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Essay:

In the main I agree with Geoff Ward for highlighting the plight Australia positioning itself regarding Biofuel technology, research, climatic change, emissions etc. We need more social scientists, ethicists, and moralist to shake up the ' shell-be-right " sports-zombies.

In Howard's day, the ethanol equation amounted to taxpayer's funds propping up the ailing National Party front in Queensland. The Sugar Industry beseiged with falling prices, raising costs and cheap Philippine imports lobbied Mark Vale for significant subsidies towards utilising cane in the then, novel Biofuel Industry. It was supposed to create jobs, enrich a few sugar Barons and curb CO2 emissions by quantum leaps. Like so many other fuel initiatives i.e ACCC's dob in a petrol-station cheat; CSIRO's BioLab; Costello's 48th petrol price inquiry etc all equivocally bit the proverbial dust. The Oil cartel wouldn't hear of it. Check..and..mate !

We have all been saddled with rising costs, mostly Global Economie's gone haywire. Battler's are finding it increasingly hard to maintain the status quo. St Vinnie's, Salvo's and Rosie's are inundated with cries for accommodation, food vouchers, and escalating school fee's despite wonder boy Rudd-07 blaming the Reserve Bank, Commercial Bank's, Woolworth's and the Oil cartel's for creating the unholy mess ? Denial ?

The implications GW alludes to : Balance of Trade disruptions. Food crisis, energy crisis, climate change, more insidious poverty. According to the World Bank report, 36 countries are in crisis mode. Poorer countries are worst affected. Orwellian nightmare predicted decades ago.

The World Bank, IMF, OECD, Oxford University Think Tank etc regularly assess and analysise Global Trends which point to the abysmal failure of G8 and rising Economies, to alleviate the growing pressures ( besides War ) which beset the Planet.

The call for mandating fuel subsidies falls on deaf ears. In the US, Europe and OZ, it's the size of Corporate donations; lobbyist;power broker's; and king-maker's who are the mover's / shaker's- be it Finance, Casino's or the M1 Super Highway. Bush legislated for subsidies not because he was an avid environmentalist, nor France's Charac because he feared competition ! It's naive and a
Posted by shellback, Sunday, 16 March 2008 4:26:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The competition between biofuels and food is not inevitable as many commentators appear to assume. Political and economic considerations are driving the corn ethanol industry in the USA, but this is merely externalizing the problems in the world trade regime.

This is driving up food prices around the world, such that the World Food Program cannot meet its commitments. This merely underlines what many people have known for a long time, that the needs of an SUV outweigh the needs of a malnourished child.

It is also leading to export bans and price controls being put in place by an increasing number of world governments. Ethanol derived from seaweed, kelp and algae offer an economically viable alternative to corn, especially when it is grown on nitrogen heavy river discharge.
Posted by Ian in Tokyo, Sunday, 16 March 2008 4:48:19 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. Page 3
  5. 4
  6. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy