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The Forum > Article Comments > A decent proposal > Comments

A decent proposal : Comments

By Malcolm King, published 29/2/2008

Women need to overthrow this last bastion of male tyranny - if the man hasn’t popped the question leap in first this February 29.

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This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently “Moody bitch seeks nice young man for love/hate relationship”.

But in reality the marriage proposal could go like this: -

“Dearest, would you like to marry me. Then I will have one or more children and seek a divorce. Then I will get most of the assets and allow you to see the children every second weekend, as long as you pay me money. I will also call you a deadbeat dad and an absent father. So how about it, dearest”
Posted by HRS, Friday, 29 February 2008 8:49:03 AM
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HRS that sounds terribly bitter, what if the woman had said:

"Dearest would you like to marry me, I know that I will have your children, clean house and cook while holding down a part-time job, and look after your every need, provide free housekeeping and childcare when I am not working which will put me at a disadvantage financially when you leave me for a young blonde woman half your age, don't pay any child support to the children and refuse to see the kids regularly because it will cramp your lifestyle and impinge on payments for the new red sports car."

:)
Posted by pelican, Friday, 29 February 2008 8:56:04 AM
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Pelican,
I have never once seen a man driving around in a red sports car with a blond half their age.

But I have know many men desperately trying to see their children who were abducted from them. While it is true that some fathers do not pay child suport after their children have been abducted, it is rarely mentioned the number of fathers who pay over and above child support.

It is not mentioned, because in our society, fathers are someone to be villified.
Posted by HRS, Friday, 29 February 2008 9:10:04 AM
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HRS I was attempting a bit of humour.

I have friends whose husbands left them for younger women and in two cases did not pay child support because of being able to hide money in a business.

Yes I agree, that there are women out there who restrict access to children and that is rotten and many men do pay child support. I would also feel aggrieved if I could not see my children for more than once a fortnight.

Bottom line is we should all treat each other with respect and fairness. Unfortunately, humans sometimes behave badly.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 29 February 2008 9:34:32 AM
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Malcolm, thanks for the interesting history lesson.

I find it strange that (some,alot) women reckon taking the risk of rejection isn't a big deal as long as it is the bloke who is doing the risk taking.
Posted by JamesH, Friday, 29 February 2008 12:09:23 PM
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A most amusing article. I certainly don't have a problem when women are reasonably forward. It saves time. If you're ready to marry someone, it doesn't matter who asks the question, as long as it's the right person.

And for crying out loud HRS. There wasn't any feminist propaganda here. It was just encouraging women to pop the question too.

There was no attack on men. There wasn't even any real promotion of feminism.

Ditch the bitterness for just a while, it's most unbecoming.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 29 February 2008 2:33:54 PM
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I suppose the under lying premise is that marriage is still a going concern. One can't blame women for not exactly 'leaping' at a marriage proposal as one in three end up on the rocks. Plus there are careers to think about, travel, etc.

I'm traditional enough to expect the man to do the asking but I'm darned if I know why.
Posted by Cheryl, Saturday, 1 March 2008 8:27:38 AM
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I thought it was a light, amusing article too. Mind you, marriage is an institution that I wouldn't enter into again. Why spoil a good relationship by forcing it into a legal structure that doesn't work in about 50% of cases?

I see that OLO's biggest loser with respect to male-female relationships is back having a typically pathetic bleat about those dreadful women. Home alone again, eh Timkins?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Saturday, 1 March 2008 9:22:50 AM
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Turnrightthenleft,
I have not even mentioned feminism.

I have indicated what the situation is in reality for 30%-50% of marriages.

Where have you been? Didn’t you know about this?

Did you think that fathers had more value than a sperm donor and a bank account?

No wonder the woman rarely proposes. If she proposed, she might have to say to him during the proposal that she does think of him as having more value than a sperm donor and a bank account.

I also don't think you can lecture me on what is "unbecoming". You once reccommended that I read a feminist web-site that had slogans on it such as "Tell me again why I need a boyfriend" and "It ain't pretty being easy", and "Dip me in honey and throw me to the lesbians".

But you don't think that web-site was "unbecoming".

The feminist definition of what is "unbecoming" is rather mysterious.
Posted by HRS, Saturday, 1 March 2008 9:26:19 AM
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HRS, you're playing your disingenuous victim games again.

Which is even more unbecoming. And yes, I'll certainly lecture you on that.

As far as the 'article' I recommended, it wasn't any of the above. It just happened to be on the same website.

By the same logic, I could recommend you read this article, and you could criticise it on the basis of another article here.

More stupid evasive games. You play many of them to avoid accepting the blatantly obvious. You still refuse to admit that not every single feminist is bad don't you?

And your message was rife with bitterness and you do metaphorically foam at the mouth when anything associated with women or feminism is mentioned.

So rather than get drawn into the time wasting trolling exercises you've drawn me into in other threads where information is presented to you and you just ignore it and maintain your hatred of feminists and evidently, even women, I'll just blow you a metaphorical raspberry and bid you adieu.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Saturday, 1 March 2008 11:09:52 AM
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Turnrightthenleft,
I can imagine you giving a marriage proposal. If she didn't accept it, then you would give her abuse and a rasberry.

I would think that there should be much more education of men before they pop the question. That way they might not end up as one of the large number of fathers who have to pay money to someone who has abducted their children (and then calls them an "absent father").
Posted by HRS, Saturday, 1 March 2008 11:50:57 AM
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Seven of 'em lost their heads over me. Couldn't keep'em away. Saved a swag on maintainance and child support, though.
Posted by HenryVIII, Saturday, 1 March 2008 1:05:36 PM
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One small issue that I'd pick with King's article is that he has a mild 'go' at Andrea Dvorkin, a radical lesbian feminist. Surely lesbians are not insusceptible to a little romance in the form of a marriage proposal. Can of worms I'm afraid.
Posted by Cheryl, Saturday, 1 March 2008 1:58:08 PM
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Thew, survived yesterday intact, no hordes of vandals or gauls bothered to try and storm the last bastion of marriage tyranny.

A truce for another 4 years has been declared except for the psychological cold war.

Maybe a pretty seductive tinker will steal my heart and then my wallett and soul.
Posted by JamesH, Saturday, 1 March 2008 2:19:48 PM
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Henry - Seven eh? The Rick Wakeman album I owned in my callow youth claims there were only six. Do you know something we don't?

Cheryl - The erstwhile Dvorkin was one scary individual.

JamesH - You could do much worse than a "pretty seductive tinker". My missus reckons Johnny Depp played a good one in 'Chocolat'. Are you bisexual perchance? It might explain the problems you apparently have with women :)
Posted by CJ Morgan, Saturday, 1 March 2008 5:05:01 PM
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Sharing the burden of initiation wont save the dying institution of marriage.

Expanding its definition and giving same sex couples the certificate certainly will. Alas, those opportunisticly divisive lawyers in the USA will be well pleased.

Cant understand why folks still do it. Its ironic how a couple will live together for a decade, get the contract and then divorce soon after.

Its harder to get out of a mobile phone contract than a marriage contract. lm yet to meet a person, man or woman, who doesnt complain about married life or who has anything positive to say about it. In fact, married persons seem to complain a lot.
Posted by trade215, Saturday, 1 March 2008 6:36:25 PM
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CJ I sometimes wonder if you are not Roonie Peters?

It doesn't matter in what manner I respond to your lastest post, it will not be the right thing.

CJ you do remind me of the bullies who make other peoples lives a living hell. I admire HRS's tenacity despite your personal attacks on him.

The only time I ever won at the races was when I went with a very pretty seductive genuine irish tinker. Who sadly I have lost contact with.
Posted by JamesH, Sunday, 2 March 2008 8:45:13 AM
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It's interesting to be called a "bully" for lampooning utter tripe posted by an obsessive misogynist. Actually, I usually leave poor old Timkins alone unless he posts something particularly stupid.

JamesH: "I admire HRS's tenacity..."

You call it tenacity. Those of us who don't exhibit a deep antipathy to women call it obsession. HRS is a sock puppet for the banned Timkins, and persists in posting much the same drivel that got him banned in the first place. You may have noticed that he tends to tone it down a bit when I and others draw attention to his duplicity.

My condolences to James re the Irish tinker. Perhaps he should have been nicer to her, or tried treating her as an equal.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Sunday, 2 March 2008 9:37:37 AM
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Cheryl,
Andrea Dorkin said she was a lesbian and then married a homosexual man. I have no idea of the rules of engagement in that relationship.

She also claimed that when she was married to a heterosexual man she was drugged, raped and beaten. This was denied and it was said to her on many occasions that if she was drugged, raped and beaten then she should report the matter to the police. She never did, but continued to claim that she was drugged raped and beaten in various books and articles.

She also made many other claims that were never proven and eventually a number of publishers refused to publish her works for fear of libel, but her works were still required reading in various feminist courses in universities throughout the world.

CJ. Morgan
Once again you have proven that you can make a post with no mention of the topic. I think that about 80% of your posts are this way, and you seem to have a total preoccupation with a HRS and a Timkins.
Posted by HRS, Sunday, 2 March 2008 10:10:28 AM
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You couldn't have been any further from the truth CJ.

Linda (the tinker) was out here on a working visa and when that expired she went back to Ireland. Then I moved and we lost contact. Nothing as dark or sinister as that you are so fond on implying.
Posted by JamesH, Monday, 3 March 2008 7:23:30 AM
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WHY AREN'T THERE ENOUGH "GOOD MEN"?
Women are suffering because of men refusing to 'pop the question'.

Many 30-something professional women have been single for years, or dating a man for years, only to have him dump her, just as her fertility alarm clock rings?

Why aren't there enough 'good men'?

Reason 1: THE MARRIAGE STRIKE
Men know marriage means long years of long hours, with the main burden of the family's mortgage... no work-life balance!

ABS figures show that FATHERS work 5hrs a day LONGER than mothers in paid "Work"-work. She does more "house"-work... but while he "PAYS" for the kids, she "PLAYS" with them.

Men also know that 50% of marriages end in divorce. Wife gets the kids... and whoever gets the kids, gets everything else.

Who'd ever rationally decide to become a father with these penalties?
Men are rationally deciding NOT TO MARRY.

THE MARRIAGE STRIKE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_strike

Reason 2: SCHOOL DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BOYS
To become a lawyer or other professional (a 'good') man you have to go to Uni first.

Girls wanting a good man are have to ask where the male uni students? Two-thirds of uni students are girls now... These professional women mostly will want a suitable 'good' professional husbands.

'Til the 1980's boys and girls got almost the same average mark at year 12. But then changes to curricular and classroom techniques led to girls surging ahead... and boys falling behind.

By 1996, Boys average mark was 7% below girls in NSW... Did the Education Departments start promoting boys' education? No! They stopped recording the results by gender!

Despite repeated FOI requests, NSW claims to not have the data of boys' and girl's year 12 results since 1996!

Innocent young boys are being failed out of our schools, and educationalists are carefully hiding their failure.

- - - - - - -
Failing boys at school means insufficient professional men for all the professional women.

And Unfair divorce means that those few men that do make it, are likely to be on the MARRIGE STRIKE. They don't want to risk becomming fathers.

www.Fathers4Equality-Australia.org
PartTimeParent@pobox.com
Posted by partTimeParent, Monday, 3 March 2008 10:30:45 AM
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"Men also know that 50% of marriages end in divorce."
No they don't. Not according to the ABS. http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyCatalogue/F356DBB7EA7A96EECA256F10007B6B1A?OpenDocument

"Two-thirds of uni students are girls now"
Really? That's surprising. What's your source?
Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 3 March 2008 12:58:01 PM
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Point 1: According to the ABS, 58% of undergrads in 2000 were female, up from 44% in 1979. In round terms, the trend has reached two-thirds by now.
Also available on http://www.dest.gov.au/sectors/higher_education/publications_resources/statistics/publications_higher_education_statistics_collections.htm#studpubs

Point 2: "50% of marriages end in divorce" needs a little more explaination. Looking at recent trends, 50% of today's weddings, 50% will end in divorce. Looking at all existing maried couples (including my parents, married in 1956) the divorce rate is much lower.

But if you are considering getting married, your cohort is today's weddings, not those of 50-years ago.

Marriage Strike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_strike

Glenn Sacks on the Marriage Strike
http://www.glennsacks.com/have_antifather_family.htm

www.Fathers4Equality-Australia.org
Posted by partTimeParent, Monday, 3 March 2008 1:13:02 PM
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"Point one: According to the ABS, 58% of undergrads in 2000 were female, up from 44% in 1979. In round terms, the trend has reached two-thirds by now."

So you're assuming the trend will increase at the rate it did form 1979 until 2000, presumably until universities constitute 100% women? Obviously that would be silly, so can you explain your maths there?

"Looking at recent trends, 50% of today's weddings, 50% will end in divorce."

Can you give me a source for those trends? As I understood, the trend is heading in the other direction. The 2006 ABS stats that I linked to show that the divorce rate is down from 2.9 per 1,000 people in 2001 to 2.5 per 1,000 people in 2006.

I agree that, in part, marriage is less attractive for men now because of some of the social changes you've raised. I just find your statistics dodgy, and I don't think they're bolstering your case.
Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 3 March 2008 1:23:51 PM
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Vanilla's quite correct about the commonly-quoted 50% figure for divorces, but it's a bit hard to glean from the ABS figures she links to. A more nuanced figure is that around 1 in 3 first marriages will end in divorce, and that figure increase to about 2 in 3 for second marriages (http://www.relationships.com.au/advice).

Overall, the figure's more like 40%, and currently declining.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Monday, 3 March 2008 1:27:05 PM
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