Oh, I get what you are on about now Boazy, Ecclesiastes Chapter one:

"17 Then I applied myself to the understanding of wisdom, and also of madness and folly, but I learned that this, too, is a chasing after the wind.
18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
the more knowledge, the more grief."

That describes you perfectly! And many other zealots also. I feel for you and while don't believe that it is in anyones best interest to follow you, I wish you luck in your endeavour to be free from the pain and sorrow that knowledge brings. Just stop trying to convince everyone else to want the same. Who needs Socrates indeed? Your philosophy is all there in those two verses.....

West,

The Christians would not have us flying from Earth to Mars. We would have to break through the crystal sphere around the Moon's orbit. Must all be done in Hollywood like in the movie, "Capricorn One". Don't agree? Well, there was a time when the Christians would have had burnt at the stake for disagreeing with them.

In th US, I understand , the Christians have recently opened their dinosaurs living with Adam & Eve museum. Muse-um? Isn't a muse meant to inspire rather than contrive to arrest and stagnate?

O.

BOAZ_DAVID,

You wont answer my question about this there about the humanity of Jesus that would place him above another self-actualised person, such as Carol Rogers or Elanor Roosevelt? I will try this one, again, "Did Jesus commit suicide?"

O.

Bugsy (and others), there are many wisdoms similar to the one you quoted from Ecclesiastes, for instance “Other men are clear and bright, but I alone am dim and weak … Those who know are not learned, the learned do not know.” (Tao Te Ching/DaoDeJing) or “If you persist in reasoning about what cannot be understood, you will be destroyed by the very thing you seek.” (Chuang Tzu/Zhuangzi).

However, one of the greatest Oriental wisdoms, I think, is expressed by the famous "The sage points at the moon; the fool bites his finger" attributed to Lao Tsu, or, in its more modest and popularised form, “if the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger”. How many people, including some debaters here, look incomprehensively (and disapprovingly) at the Christian (Catholic) or Muslim, “finger”, each conditioned by history and culture, without being able to see that its main function is to POINT to Something beyond the reach of science and history.

There is a Western parallel to this Oriental wisdom in J.W. Goethe’s Faust “True, human beings may abound / Who growl at things beyond their ken, / Mocking the beautiful and good, / And all they haven't understood ...”. That is at least my personal experience. People mock mathematics and religion for roughly the same reason: they cannot understand what it is about, are frustrated, and consequently try to bring it down to a level they can grasp

The comments have gone off on a number of tangents. The article's core issue is that Christianity has a history of interfering with free scientific research - and is still attempting to do this.