So a central claiming to this writer's article is that before about 6000 years ago we humans lived in peace and tranquility.

Well this is an interesting hypothesis. Let's see if there exists evidence to falsify it. Ie. Can we find archeological evidence that supports the counter claim that we have pretty much always been violent.

Hmm, ten seconds with a google search ought to do it: And here we gggoooo----

1)http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/ancient-brutal-massacre-may-be-earliest-evidence-war-180957884 -- this web-page is about evidence for a collective deadly group confrontation about 10,000 years ago

2) http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32890697 -- this page is about a human fossil with evidence of a violent death 430,000 years ago-- which is older than humanity itself and is most likely Neanderthal or something- so group violence stretches a long way back and includes other homo species.

--- and the search results go on and on and on. There are plenty of ancient human remains that show that humans have always been violent towards one another. And not only modern homo-sapiens but other ancestor hominid species.

So I overall Peter's article is complete BS.

Reclaiming Eden will, require first and foremost a return to truth-telling. Then the recycling of all waste, including nuclear waste! We do that much and we're halfway there. We then need a new far more inclusive economic paradigm that attacks and removes all poverty!

Those that find they cannot/will not become part of this new cooperative economic paradigm need to be permanently quarantined! They also need to be rendered incommunicado, least their storm of lies and mindless agitating renders it stillborn before it gets a chance to become our reality?

The above is not an option by perhaps the only way we can survive as a species beyond the next two generations!? Leave it with you.
Alan B.

Repeat repeated: that is the nature of society.

Return to the old masters of psychology for feet on the ground relevance of psychoanalysis, and fundamental workings of the human mind. Very little to do with neuroscience there, but a lot to do with melding the science of the mind with philosophy!

Dan

Violence only begets more violence and an eye for an eye advanced to its obvious conclusion, will render all of humanity blind!

No, we are not naturally violent species! Albeit, a small vociferous, dysfunctional few of us are?

A complete quarantining of that cohort from the rest, will ensure their insane agitating/violence is not spread any wider!

[And the meek shall inherit the earth, Quote unquote]
Alan B.

And the lion will lay down with the lamb.

That said, you sometimes have to fight fire with fire. And at least one of our wars (WW11) was the ploughshare beaten back to swords, righteous! And the power-hungry madmen need to be excised like a malignant cancer before they can kill the host entirely?

Done as early as possible, keeps the harm and collateral damage to a minimum!
Alan B.

thinkabit

I think your correct to question, but if the thesis postures climate change as the catalyst for confrontation, then there exists plenty of wriggle room for proof, spanning well over six thousand years.

What has not matured over this period, is mans propensity towards pleasure.
Particularly sexual pleasure and it’s consequences of over population.

Of course, this is obviously not the lone preserve of man. All things on earth over regenerate if given the right set of circumstances. A mouse plague in a wheat silo springs to mind: After the wheat is gone, then what?

Al

Yep to some of that. But it’s this bit I question:

*... Those that find they cannot/will not become part of this new cooperative economic paradigm need to be permanently quarantined! They also need to be rendered incommunicado,..*

Unfortunately, what is painfully obvious, is the reliance on incarceration as a means of dealing with the opposition to a successful system, the modern one is, for a dwindling few.
Which group, the winners or the losers, are you suggesting should be annihilated.

Dan

I once had a big garden and a little duckpond on it with wild ducks. Any watching of these animals made me realise how savage nature is. We are animals and we behave similarly but are gradually improving ourselves.
This whole article is intellectual self abuse as were the following comments, have a lovely day.

Meanwhile this reference provides a completely different Illuminated Understanding of the Garden or the Paradise of Indestructible Light
http://www.beezone.com/adidajesus/adamnervoussystemeveflesh.html#trueteachingrenewalculture particularly the first part at the top of the page

This related reference provides a unique Understanding of the true purpose of Creation Myths http://www.beezone.com/da_publications/creamyth.html

And why not also check out one of Ken Wilber's first books, namely Up From Eden A Transpersonal View of Human Evolution and then his extraordinary Sex, Ecology, Spirituality The Spirit of Evolution

So what this article shows that humans are progressing slowly when
looked at in our time bases.
However there once was PAX Romana, then some time later the League of
Nations and the United nations. Imperfect of course but a move in the
right direction.
Just don't be impatient, we will get in right in the next couple of
thousand years.

On this occasion, easy to agree, with Thinkabit.

The evolutionary evidence is clear that, millions of years inside the genome, humans and chimps are uniquely murderous species. "Lethal intergroup violence" is the polite term that the anthropologists use.

Humans also have unique capacities for arrogance and delusion. With population ballooning from 2b to 8b in a century, 50% of the land surface converted, the 6th wave of extinction, all of a sudden United Nations "net zero" is going to save us.

It is a documented fact that humans had wars way before 6000 years ago.

Still, the author has some clue about life becoming relatively worse, more stressful and violent around 6000 years ago, more precisely 5123 years ago when the harsh age we live in, the Kali Yuga, began. Its arrival was prophesised by the sage Markandeya - http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03189.htm

Scripture tells us that life goes through a cycle of 4,320,000 years, divided into four ages, lasting 4*432000, 3*432000, 2*432000 and 1*432000 years respectively. The first, called Krita-Yuga, being the best and most peaceful and balanced while the last, the shortest but worst and most violent, is the Kali-Yuga in which we now live for the last 5123 years - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga

It follows that while indeed there once was an "Eden", it ended 2,165,123 years ago, not 6000!

At that time, peace, calm and generosity was natural, so there was no need for kings or any other kind of regime to enforce it.

There still is a minor "Eden" available, a particular area in India called the Naimisha Forest, that is immune to the Kali-Yuga - http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/4976913

The human race has been much the same for hundreds of thousands of years and more?
Our strongest characteristic is the will to survive.
The methods used to achieve survival varied with the living conditions at the time.
A change in climate would have initiated a different approach?
(the drift of land masses to different areas was a slow change)
Also rocks falling from the sky.
(ask the dinosaurs about that)

As someone pointed out, we need to remember we are part of the animal kingdom.
We share many of their characteristics.
Observe them, and see yourself.

The one big advantage we have is our leaning towards logic and reason.
As these attributes developed, we found we could learn useful things about our surroundings.
We were able to use that knowledge to plan more effectively.
We have been able, collectively, to achieve some rather remarkable outcomes.
Vehicles trundling around on another planet for one.....

But the warlike instinct we needed for survival is still with us.
The basic skill set needed for survival remains intact.
So, it is almost certain that, long ago, we behaved much the same as we do now.
We are warlike now, and were likely warlike then?

Perhaps our long ago ancestors did squabble less?
But if they did, it was because they lived further apart?
Now we are crowded together, friction and rivalry have more chance to cause unrest?
So population growth is another factor which contributes to having a less peaceful world?
Plot the coordinates, and look at the shape of the graph?

But the instincts to fight and steal were always there.
So I really doubt there was a 'golden age' of peace and tranquility.
But all things are relative, so if we stretch a point.....
Thank you to the writer for provoking 'the many' with his words.

On the other, today's thread, carn-free should read, carbon-free.

Free on Microsoft, Grammarly is so helpful!

I wouldn't turn the word carbon into carn? Would my, owned for life, Microsoft Word?

Read between the lines!

Sorry, run out of allowed comments on the other thread! Apologies!
Alan B.

Am putting this on this thread as well.
Sad news, we lost Joe ( Loudmouth) last Friday. Very unexpected, a cardiac aneurysm.
I’ve only just been informed.
Rest In Peace my friend, may your new existence bring you someone to debate with.

Sad for us. We lost a great wise and balanced commentator.

As for Joe himself, he was blessed with a long life and a quick death, now he is in a better world.

Eden is a myth, always has been, always will be.

I've lived in a couple of prospects, but they were far from Eden. Feni Islands. The main island is volcanic with grow anything soil. About 40 Sq Kilometers, it has a small coco plantation & 4 villages. The fish near catch themselves, it grows all the fruit & vegetables you could eat, & most villagers keep a pig or two.

There are a dozen perfect sites for new villages, but they squabble over the best sites in the 2 biggest villages. The plantation owner established a small beef herd, but the villagers prefer tinned corn beef to the fresh stuff. It could be heaven, but is far from it.

Nugerria Atoll, 63 islands with a lagoon 30 miles X 10 miles. The fish do catch themselves in coral traps. Not much but coconuts, taro & sweet potato grows with a 30 ton a month copra plantation the copra boat comes once a month bringing every thing anyone wants.

The owner died leaving the lot to the locals. No one will work the plantation, so the villages produce only small quantities individually. The copra boat comes erratically, about annually, so no trade goods. No fuel for the power house so no lights, & no 2 way radio, so no emergency medical help. The air strip has disappeared under scrub.

They have a great 24Ft diesel powered fishing dory, given to them by some Taiwanese fishermen, but no one will buy fuel for it. The women paddle the couple of miles to the vegetable garden island daily.

It could be an Eden, but in my experience Eden carries the seeds of it's own destruction, very easily sewn.

nature is neither always peaceful or conflictual for most species.

And human history would validate this.

Commonsense really.