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The Forum > Article Comments > United Nations rebuked for promoting Palestinian ethnic cleansing Of Jews > Comments

United Nations rebuked for promoting Palestinian ethnic cleansing Of Jews : Comments

By David Singer, published 21/9/2016

'We have frankly said, and always will say: If there is an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, we won't agree to the presence of one Israeli in it...'

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The author as usual misrepresents things. There is a difference between Jew and Israeli. Israeli is a nationality whereas Jew is a religious or ethnic category. Not having an Israeli presence says nothing about Jews. Of course Mr Singer is fully aware of this but prefers to lie to support his arguments. I don't know why I other pointing this out as he will only respond by calling me a Jew hater.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 12:27:37 PM
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I, and sure the rest of the world are so so so so sick n' tired of all this racist crap that separates people from different ancestor lineages in this part of the world, aka "The middle east".

Why can't ALL these peoples get along and live in a common landscape??

For F...'s sake, get it together and sort it out once and for all!...

It's just another annoying distraction in a world plagued with other more pressing problems! You know, stuff like global youth unemployment , alleviating poverty in 3rd world countries, (insert other problems here...) etc...
Posted by Rojama, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 1:31:43 PM
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Rhys, that misrepresentation is insignificant compared to his main misrepresentation:

The UN has NEVER supported the 2010 statements of Mahmoud Abbas. But the UN can, does and indeed should support Palestinian self determination.

ISTR Abbas's 2010 statement was made at a time when there was still much antiIsraeli sentiment as a direct result of their actions in Lebanon which had killed hundreds of civilians. It's not clear whether this is still his position; even his 2013 statement is ambiguous ("no Israeli presence" doesn't necessarily mean no presence of Israelis). But even if it is, it is not (and never was) what the UN supports.
Posted by Aidan, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 1:31:58 PM
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More singer lies.

Reflects very badly on OLO and its owners to continue to give this liar regular opportunities to spread his propaganda and hate.
Posted by mikk, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 1:59:07 PM
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Fascinating stuff when David says "1948 and 1967 with the stroke of an Arab League pen when not one Jew lived in Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. "
Then he adds "annexation of east Jerusalem" to three legal agreements. The definition of armed force as legality is what
drives Arab opposition . Jews had lived across the Middle east as citizens for 2000 years. It's the dishonesty of Israel's policy that requires David's dishonesty . (= "stubborn").
Posted by nicknamenick, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 2:00:00 PM
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Rhys Jones,

While you are technically correct in that not all Jews are Israeli, unfortunately amongst Arabs Jews and Israelis are synonymous, and most Arab countries on the creation of Israel expelled their Jewish populations, many having existed there for centuries.

Given that most of them were welcomed with open arms by Israel was a bad move on their part and just rewards for their ethnic cleansing.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 8:37:51 PM
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DS: "Offering to publish pictures of Jewish sultry babes on the internet makes me now believe you are a truly sleazy and despicable Jew-hater."

Ya reckon?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2335015/Female-Israeli-soldiers-disciplined-unbecoming-behaviour-posing-pictures-dressed-underwear-combat-fatigues.html and Israel Tourism Ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_DnRoWwKsw

Another little playlist fwiw
I'd Dump the Israelis Tomorrow -- Ex-CIA Michael Scheuer Tells Congress
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sV9UcZoTM4

Israel creates hell on earth for Palestinians "White Phosphorus"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0igorvoBFs

Burning Conscience: Israeli Soldiers Speak Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MFa7ZKQWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pw8m4azLcg
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il

Palestinian Kids Dodge Settler Attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8RQK4xYdLU

How Israelis Treat Christians in Israel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlT3ARuUSGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jG6kJm-50k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSrFbNwxAlg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oO6XGF15Eg

It's not hard to cherry-pick, and yet people are free to do their own research and educate themselves about 20th century history anytime they wish.

I am my own Authority - I do not need anyone to tell me what to think or why to think it.

I'm wondering though why David Singer is so fearful of other peoples thoughts and their words? Could it be he already knows how powerful words are in shaping "public perceptions and opinion" and how effective words were in establishing the state of Israel in the first place? I think he does, and that is why the Hasbara network (doing god's work?) is so active to this day.

I wonder why he is wasting his time abusing others and calling them liars, when he can't seem to 'get' what they said in the first place.

But this is Hasbara Rule #27 - doesn't matter what they, rewrite it to whatever 'you want said' so you can attack that. I call that lying myself, but whatever, different 'cultures' and all ....

"In addition to highlighting the continuity of Israeli policy and tactics over nearly 50 years, Pappé's book also provides insight into why the Palestinian cause failed for so long.
At every stage of the conflict, between 1947 and 1951, the Palestinians relied on outsiders for help. But then as now, at each crucial point those presumed allies – whether the Arab leadership, the US, or the UN – had more urgent priorities."
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p16_marshall.html
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 11:19:01 PM
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There is a difference between Jews and Zionists.
Israel is a Zionist State.

As well as Jews, some Zionists are actually Western Christians who want chaos to continue and for Israel to occupy Palestine in order to bring about Armageddon and the Second Coming they are hoping for and continue to fund and defend Israel accordingly.
This belief has been around since the end of the Reformation and is continued by today's evangelicals and many prominent media spokesmen.

The problem is not only political but also the result of the clash of three religions (not just two).
Posted by rache, Thursday, 22 September 2016 12:36:18 AM
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Effective 'Gaslighting'
Bringing up historical facts that seem largely accurate but contain minute, hard-to-prove distortions and using them to “prove” the correctness of one’s position is another method. Gaslighting is particularly effective when coupled with other tactics such as shaming and guilting.
http://counsellingresource.com/features/2011/11/08/gaslighting/
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/

I don't think Israel has never even been a legitimate nation State. I formed that opinion very slowly over time. To better understand the history one needs to research it themselves and not rely on the news, media, pundits, bloggers or biased shills from either side.

I came to my own conclusions long ago by researching history and events myself over many years. I researched original evidence reports, research books, academic papers eg the Truman Library and the UN documents. see http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18514&page=4

Pauline Hansen says: "Now we are in danger of being swamped by Muslims, who bear a culture and ideology that is incompatible with our own."

One who accepts that should support the cause of the Palestinians who since the 1930s have been literally "swamped by [Israeli Zionists], who bear a culture and ideology that is incompatible with their own." That really was the case from the 1930s. The Palestinians were there for centuries before the illegal immigrants flooded in.

If the UN/UNSC passed a Resolution today to Partition Australia between Muslims and Non-Muslims would you do it? No way! You would reject it too. iow the "logical sane response" was that of the Palestinian's.
ref http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=18525&page=3

Without a Vote of ALL legitimate residents, the UN had no right to try to impose it's will upon anyone. But the Zionist terrorism and murder is what really fermented the civil war.

The UN condemned the killing of Bernadotte as "a cowardly act which appears to have been committed by a criminal group of terrorists in Jerusalem"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte#Assassination

The King David Hotel bombing was a terrorist attack carried out by the militant Zionist underground organization Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

From this non-stop destabilization, murders, terrorism bombs, and ethnic cleansing rose the State of Israel.

Timeline of Zionist Terror - UN Report Prepared in 1948
http://loveforlife.com.au/content/08/09/08/looking-back-60-years-timeline-zionist-terror-un-committee-1st-october-1948-other-a

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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Thursday, 22 September 2016 2:24:22 AM
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The Jews occupied Israel for millennia before the illegal immigrants flooded in.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 22 September 2016 6:12:59 AM
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Thomas O'Reilly

The Jews in Israel were displaced refugees after world war 2

The Arab attitude is they should never have had to accept so many
Jewish refugees.

But hypocritically The same Arabs and people who support that idea in the United nations, then turn around and say
Europe and Australia should accept
huge numbers of Arab refugees fleeing from the Syrian war.

Your dislike of what Pauline Hanson is saying is directly at odds with your
dislike of all the Jewish refugees that were granted assylum in Palestine after world war2. by the British Because the Arabs conspired and colluded with Hitler.

Are you for mass immigration of refugees seeking assylum or are you only for it
for certain bloodlines
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 22 September 2016 9:08:54 PM
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Rojama
" Alleiviating poverty in 3rd world countries."

There is only way to permanently. end poverty in 3rd world countries.

You know about the 7billion population world wide and rising.
This is the main driver of poverty and youth unemployment in these countries.

Males in these countries need to give back control of their wombs to the women
in these countries, It should have been done decades ago as in Western European countries who havent as yet used up all their land and territorial resorces.
Tigers, elephants and many other animals a re being driven to extinction in these countries as they
are forced to compete with everspreading humans for remaining land and resources.

Overpopulation brings consequences in natures law of survival,
It results in Famine, territorial wars and dirty drinkng water.

These countries have had billions in aid over the last 50years, and it seems to me
that the male leaders cant even build decent pipelines to provide their people with
decent drinking water.
Less stupid, uncaring male leaders in these countries and the handing over of equal power to women,
would bring about remarkable changes in a couple of generations.
Posted by CHERFUL, Thursday, 22 September 2016 9:29:56 PM
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Hey CHERFUL,
I can't buy into the idea of world hunger and famine.
I know that 1 single employee is all that is required to take care of 100,000 chickens through their 6 week growing cycle from day 1 to the chopping block.
Of course there's other required jobs like the hatchery, feed production and processing, but essentially 1 single person is all that is requires to do the main work of raising and caring for the chickens that leads to half a million meals on peoples plates.

Don't buy into the idea of world hunger.
Its incompetence, pure and simple.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 22 September 2016 10:17:44 PM
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@CHERFUL, hi, maybe ima sucker but your questions look genuine to me, so I'll give it a shot. It would help if you were aware of what was aid before incl Singer.

re "The Jews in Israel were displaced refugees after world war 2"

Partly true. Millions were, many more than the jewish were refugees. The war over, the Nazis were no longer a threat.

Not all the jews ending up in Israel were genuine 'war refugees.'

That most were refugees makes no difference to issue was "the State" of Israel legitimate then or now. Be very clear about this.

re "The Arab attitude is they should never have had to accept so many
Jewish refugees."

Similar to John Howard, Pauline and others re OZ? My reading is yes, they thought they should not have been required or forced to accept so many.

However, 'the State' who controlled Palestine was not the Arabs during the War and after, it was the British Government. While there was varying views in the UK the GOVT view was - Palestine was not a fit place for mass immigration of permanent Refugees, Jewish or not.
These things are documented btw.

re "But hypocritically The same Arabs and people who support that idea in the United nations, then turn around and say Europe and Australia should accept huge numbers of Arab refugees fleeing from the Syrian war."

Some do, some don't. I for myself. The world is full of hypocrites. In a perfect world Temporary Visas for Syrians etc would be available everywhere safe and could cope, but supported by global humanitarian aid where ALL contributed tot he cost of a (short term yrs) compassionate and sensible response. If only there was a sensible Govt in 192+ nations, there isn't. If there was Syria would not be happening in the first place.

re "Your dislike of what Pauline Hanson is saying is directly at odds with "

Stop. Who said I disliked what Pauline is saying? I totally understand her position. I think it is wrong but the opposite is also wrong.
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Friday, 23 September 2016 12:42:12 AM
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re "your dislike of all the Jewish refugees that were granted assylum in Palestine after world war2. by the British."

Stop. I do not "dislike" Jewish refugees or Jews, in or out of Palestine. I dislike some people who happen to be Jewish/Zionists, but that's not the cause of it.

British did grant asylum to some, then shut the door - just like Oz, EU & USA, enough was enough. The jewish refugees kept coming but they ALL had options. They had NO valid claim to Palestine, none of them.

Illegals kept coming, some brought ARMS & Bombs to fight the British and the Arabs who lived there.

re "Because the Arabs conspired and colluded with Hitler."

Besides the point. Some did, some didn't. You cannot blame every Arab in and out of Palestinian as "conspiring" with Hitler.

If they were so bad - why would jews go there in the first place - it wasn't "Israel" then!

re "Are you for mass immigration of refugees seeking assylum or are you only for it for certain bloodlines"

Not an either/or question, to complex to simplify. I am FOR anyone being able to "seek asylum" anywhere and processed to the UN conventions.

I am against nations who refuse the Convention or refuse to admit all "asylum seekers" on face value emergency. Mine included.

Illegal immigrants crashing borders in Palestine in 1940s and in Europe/US is very different.

Against uncontrolled "mass immigration" which is NOT the same as "mass flows of refugees".

"Immigration" means they are approved, given Permanent Residency or similar. But no one can stop people fleeing as refugees.

I hope that answers your questions Cherful.

I note that 99% of the time no one answers anyone's questions on this forum properly or sincerely. But that's their problem not mine.

Now the big question is: Was the time and effort I put into this reply worth it or not? Maybe I wasted 20% of daily posts. Time will tell, I will learn fast.

http://www.paradoxicalcommandments.com
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Friday, 23 September 2016 1:11:12 AM
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#Rhys Jones

75% of Israel's population - 6.1 million people - are Jewish. The other 25% are mainly Arab.

Israel is the Jewish National Home of the Jewish people.

Why are you so anxious to cover over these important facts?

#Rojama

"Why can't ALL these peoples get along and live in a common landscape?? "

They can and do in Israel. They cannot in areas under Arab occupation and control in Gaza and the West Bank.

#Aidan

What the UN supports or does not support is immaterial. What Hamas and the PLO supports is what is relevant. Read their Charters where it is all clearly set out.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp

Abbas's statements on ethnic cleansing of Jews follow those two evil documents.

#mikk

I don't try to shut you up. Why do you want to shut me up?

#nicknamenick

Had the Arabs not expressed their hostile intentions to get rid of Israel in 1967 and prepared and readied to attack Israel to do so - we would not be discussing these issues today.

Gaza probably would have still been under Egyptian administration as it had been between 1948-1967 and the West Bank and East Jerusalem would still be reunified with Jordan.

#Thomas O'Reilly

Thanks for posting yet another comment confirming your pathological hatred of Jews.

#rache
See my earlier response to #Rhys. You seem to have the same mindset as him. Why?
Posted by david singer, Friday, 23 September 2016 1:53:23 PM
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//75% of Israel's population - 6.1 million people - are Jewish. The other 25% are mainly Arab.

Israel is the Jewish National Home of the Jewish people.//

Well that's nice, Dave.

59.5% of Britain's population - 38.1 x 10^6 people - are Christian. The other 40% are mostly atheists.

England is the English National Home of the Church of England. Scotland is the Scottish National Home of the Church of Scotland. Wales is the National Home of the Church in Wales, but they're not an established church.

Is a citizen of the UK necessarily a Christian? Well if Israelis and Jews are the basically the same thing, then he must be, right? At least according to Davidian logic.

But I reckon there's still a good chance he's a Pastafarian. Who knows, he might even be a Jew.

The fundamental point that Dave can't, or won't, accept was pointed out in the second sentence of the first post:

//There is a difference between Jew and Israeli//

In exactly the same way that there is a difference between a Scotsman and a Christian. To confuse, or deliberately attempt to conflate the two, is an elementary logical error. Once again I find myself wishing that I could draw Venn diagrams on OLO.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Friday, 23 September 2016 6:56:15 PM
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Toni Lavis

Their are indeed different tribes of the same religion.

And they too will go to war with each other as we have seen with the Shiite and sunni tribes both whom believe in Islam

Which proves what I always say that the religion is used as an excuse to commit
genocide and what it is really about is, tribal territorial warfare.

The war between the Israelies and the Palestinians is basically a war over the
land. it has nothing to do with the religion of either side,
All wars are over the control of land or resources like the gold mine in West Papua
contolled by the Indonesians.

The term Jew as you say is used fairly,loosely when referring to the people of Israel.
It is however irrelevant because the war is not about the religion of either side.
It is over control of the land,
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 23 September 2016 11:00:19 PM
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Thomas O'Reilly,

I thank you for taking the time to debate this issue with me.

I understand some of the points you made, and acknowledge their
truth.

But I think, although mass immigration and refugees are different in
their origin the threat to any country's co-hesion long term must be
considered as a real possibility because we see so much war
around the world and across history between different ethnic groups
trying to carve out separatist states, or civil wars over government rule.

The war in Syria started again between two tribes. The Sunni Arabs who were experiencing survival economic issues through lack of adequate resources
and were having trouble feeding their families, they stormed Damascus in huge numbers,

Assad and his tribe the Allawartes saw it as a threat to their own
territorial control and survival and so responded with all out brutal ,territorial ,defence.
I did hear one rebel describe it, as making a decision to take up arms to join the revolution. And thats the way Assad read it., as a territorial attempted take over.
Since the war started all sorts of groups and countries have taken sides
but basically it is. Syrias civil war.

Before satellite Television we never had to watch the horror of war on our
Televisions and it makes us all sad and praying somehow for it to end.
But it is the way mankind has always behaved for thousands of years and
I dont think we have basically changed at the biological survival level.
Posted by CHERFUL, Friday, 23 September 2016 11:45:16 PM
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Armchair Criitic,

And why cant the Leaders in these grossly overpopulated countries,
set up these chicken farmers to feed their people with all the billions of dollars
they have been given for decades surely they could have purchased
a Few million chickens or more by now.

I cant believe we still see people drinking dirty water in 3rd world countries, surely
with a few of the billions in foreign aid over 40years, they could have built pipes lines and purifying pumps all around the country, like Western countries have.

I think the incompetence is coming from the male leaders in these countries and it is about time they were held accountable for the results instead of blaming every one else
and expecting to be rescued all the time.
Posted by CHERFUL, Saturday, 24 September 2016 12:00:02 AM
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Oh David, my David crowed : "Thanks for posting yet another comment confirming your pathological hatred of Jews."

How long has English been a 3rd language for you David? Perhaps dyslexia?

Either way your lack of reading comprehension skill must be one of your most serious challenges. Oh well, life has it's ups and downs mate, but you do have my pity.

David, you bring up the word "pathological" - what a remarkable coincidence for I was already prepared with some material to specifically post on this thread.

Here is a very short list of Jews whom I love, admire and respect enormously.

Hear Psychologist Ross Rosenberg explaining all about Pathological Narcissists aka Manipulators
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7j2axIRja4

- Codependency and Trauma Recovery -
What would Israelis do without their Codependent Relationship with the Palestinians?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rPTGt1w1o

Samuel Vaknin with the engaging RUTH JACOBS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU305NqXT94

My favourite Cognitive Scientist George Lakoff - wow what a teacher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjNwXx2DwcQ

Two Giants of TRUTH TELLING in Noam Chomsky & Glenn Greenwald
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYBJDRmSMRY

The absolutely drop-dead gorgeous and lovable Naomi Klein
http://www.alternet.org/story/142341/naomi_klein_shows_you_can_boycott_israel_without_cutting_off_dialogue_over_palestine

Byron Katie working with an Israeli woman who is afraid of war!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwerzf5gIH0

Leaving the best for last is Marshall Rosenberg - VISION OF THE FUTURE - Non-Violent Communication
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHBD7Ihy5U

“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” - Thomas Paine, The American Crisis


PS I hadn't seen this new Hasbara line before "...in areas under Arab occupation..."
Suddenly the Arab's are occupying themselves (?) - this must be stopped now! LOL

Now that's a brilliant bait'n'switch Sophism right there. A sophism is a specious argument for displaying ingenuity in reasoning or for deceiving someone. A sophist is a person who reasons with clever but fallacious and deceptive arguments.

What Is a Psychopath? - The neuroscience of psychopathy reports some intriguing findings
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mindmelding/201301/what-is-psychopath-0

Self-Assessment on Psychopathy / Narcissistic Personality Disorder
http://www.counseling-office.com/surveys/test_psychopathy.phtml
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Saturday, 24 September 2016 1:25:51 AM
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//It is however irrelevant because the war is not about the religion of either side.
It is over control of the land//

Of course it is. I wonder why Dave can't admit that, and likes to pretend that this all about religious persecution. Maybe he thinks he's fooling somebody other than himself.

It was the same in Northern Ireland: the Troubles were not so much about Proddies vs. Left-footers as they were about the English pinching a bit of land in the North of Eire and refusing to give it back. Presumably if Dave read a speech by an IRA leader calling for the English to feck off (I'm paraphrasing), he would have interpreted it as calling for pogroms against Irish Protestants. That's Davidian logic for you.

//Thanks for posting yet another comment confirming your pathological hatred of Jews.//

Oh here we go... Dave's up to his usual tricks. Give it a rest, you tool. We've seen it all before: everyone that disagrees with Dave hates the Jews. That's his first allegation of anti-Semitism for the thread. If past behaviour is any indicator, as people continue to criticise his arguments we should standby for full Davidian tantrum mode within a couple of posts. Everybody, make sure you have box of tissues ready for when Dave pulls out his most devastating (only) insult: jew-hater.

In response to Dave's persistent attempts top drag down the level of discussion by insulting everybody that disagrees with him, I'm going to share one of my favourite jokes with you every time he does it to make the forum more enjoyable. To make it even more fun, I'm going to mix it up between Jewish jokes and Scottish jokes where I've replaced the word 'Scotsman' with 'Jew': see if you can pick which ones are which!

Q: Why do Jews have skinny dicks?
A: Because they're such tight-fisted wånkers.
Posted by Toni Lavis, Saturday, 24 September 2016 8:23:17 AM
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@CHERFUL, hi thanks.

re "the threat to any country's co-hesion long term must be
considered"

Precisely what Arab states and Palestinians had an issue with in 1944 ongoing. One leader 'the Germans uprooted and murdered the Jews not us, why are they coming to take our land and not German land?'

Europe's, Hansen's people's concerns about mass muslim migration is as 'less valid' than SYSTEMATIC ORGANISED ZIONIST FUNDED Mass 'Jewish/European' migration into Palestine - I separate help for war refugees from permanent migration, most cannot.

re "The war in Syria started again between two tribes."

That's a misreadi, NOT your fault, reporting of the real facts never happens. Our 'news' and 'Oz politicians' are dumbed down. research Josuha Landis historian.

AGW/CC Drought 'hunger' triggered the 'protests' but the opportunistic 'civil war' that it is driven by outside forces, Assad's govt said from day one. I agree but not because I 'believe them', it's a fact from multiple sources.

Who is behind the 'civil war' then? Saudis, Qatar, Turkey, Israel, USA 'CIA black ops', PR by wealthy ideological 'think tanks'.

Same with Morsi in Egypt, in Ukraine, in Iraq, back in Chile 1974. (this is not a psychotic conspiracy theory, it's real geo-politics writ large, targets being the Shia, Iran, Russia/China $!)

Then ISIS/Al Queda got involved 'helped' with destablisation. They could have been taken out in less than a month years ago. The "coalition" is a Myth, a joke, a Con.

eg 'report' real journo
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
and
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military

re "responded with all out brutal ,territorial ,defence."

Don't believe the TV news. Assad security,military forces are not saints, however, there is more to the story.

re "assad read it territorial attempted take over"

...from the OUTSIDE, his response was ethical, moral, and his Duty as president, imo.

re "the way mankind has always behaved for thousands of years "

YES, political intrigue in the palaces of monarchies since day one, using the people/syrians as cannon fodder for psychopathic power games.

If 'the people' knew the whole truth (we do not) this psychopathic insanity would stop.

It will not!

http://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/review-dangerous-allies-by-malcolm-fraser/

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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Saturday, 24 September 2016 10:36:15 AM
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Thomas, you may enjoy this piece on Syria

http://www.vineyardsaker.co.nz/2016/09/19/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-by-robert-f-kennedy-jr/#more-6493

Also the writing of Dr Paul Craig Roberts, if you are not already familiar with his website

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org

Cheers
Geoff
Posted by Geoff of Perth, Sunday, 25 September 2016 12:16:45 AM
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Thanks Geoff of Perth, an excellent article by JFK jnr. I didn't know he was into all this. Hardly anyone will read it. (shaking my head)

I'm up to speed on all of that, bar the earlier history aspects. It's like, oh so obvious, in full view, and yet 'no one knows jack.' It's a sad joke on everyone.

I think he missed a bit re the iranians also had a pipeline deal done already with syria years ago, before the qatari field was known to be so big. but with the sanctions etc it was all on hold, with pipeline to go through syria too, approved way back by assad senior i think.

I have forgotten more than I can recall these days - I had enough of it all, a pathetic joke imo. Al Capone would be impressed at the expansive protection racket being run, I guess he was born at the wrong time lol.

I really liked this line "their narcissistic trope that Mideast nationalists “hate us for our freedoms.” ' 100% on the money. Psychopathic narcissists lots of them in the US (and too many here).

Maybe a miracle will happen? There are tens of thousands of 'Snowdons' in the NSA, CIA and the Military, they aren't all insane psychopaths and they do know what's going on better than JFK jr or anyone.

Putin's only error imo was he too was a "Mosaddegh" for too long too, before the penny dropped. Georgia kind of woke him up i think. (did you know that Mikheil Saakashvili is now an appointed Governor in Ukraine? Suits him down to the ground.)

Despite appearances I no longer care about all this business. Once upon a time I thought it mattered or could be changed, then like Putin I was relieved of my illusions and became dis-illusioned. I think we're screwed and will follow the Pied Piper into destroying our own nation for nothing. And I no longer care. best.
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Sunday, 25 September 2016 1:45:25 AM
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I have no doubt the USA did do much to manipulate things in the middle East.
as the link stated.

But then, the sale of oil to America and the west made some Arabs like
the Saudi Sheiks,very rich too.

They dont seem to have shared. much of their wealth with poor countries in
the Middle East either

The Arabs have blood on their hands in the middle East also. They slaughtered
Christians and white people nearly wiping them out in the 1800's under the
rule of the Ottomon Empire.

Given these massacres, their hatred and wish to kill whites and Christians,dates
way back before the oil resources manipulations.
I think they would have eventually attacked Europe anyway.

America could have wiped Iraq off the map and just took all the oilfields. I doubt whether the Arabs if they had the same arms would have been so sensitive to The absolute slaughter of Americans.

What conqueror in history has never claimed the spoils of victory (in this case the oil wells)but handed them back to the inhabitants of a conquered country.

When its said it is all about the oil, how do you explain that?
Posted by CHERFUL, Sunday, 25 September 2016 9:19:47 PM
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@CHERFUL, hi. History, it's a hard problem. It's been misused by everyone under the Sun. I can appreciate that it's more likely to be influenced by myths/biased history than knowing history objectively. No one knows it all, however it helps to find reasonably unbiased history academic experts who know their particular subject and time period.

Try this idea: "All Humanity has blood on their hands across the globe and across time."

To me that is what a real objective historical truth would look like. The devil is in the details, and those are so easily cherry-picked by Bias and Ideology that they no longer represent the whole/real truth.

So I appreciate where you're coming from, because people have always been constantly misled about history and the reasons for the next war. No one can know everything about any region.

eg "They slaughtered Christians and white people nearly wiping them out in the 1800's under the rule of the Ottoman Empire."

I don't know what you're referring to there. I suppose you didn't know then that ethnic Greeks (similar to ethnic Russians in Ukraine) were mercantile traders, administrators and the educated in the Ottoman empire for centuries, all the way to past the WWI. They remained Greek Orthodox Christians and were not slaughtered, but part of the political apparatus of the empire.

Until 1922 when the Brits organised a Greek army to go take over the new Turkey in an invasion there .... for a while the (non-Ottoman) Greeks won and terrorised the population murdering and pillaging civilians and the army, until Ataturk swung the war around and proceeded to push them into the sea at Smyrna. It was a major disaster.

The outcome was that all the ethnic Greeks whose ancestors had lived their since before Islam was even created were all expelled from Turkey and sent packing (at least those who were not killed or died in the fire.) You need to under stand that Smryna was essentially a majority Ethnic GREEK City in the Ottoman empire for centuries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%9322)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Smyrna

videos news reels
http://www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/video/montage-city-of-smyrna-burns-during-greco-turkish-war-news-footage/502143210
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Monday, 26 September 2016 11:11:27 AM
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PS

If it wasn't for the warmongering power trips of the British Empire mindset, and the ego heads in modern Greece at the time, it would still be one.

Personally, I do not blame the Turks for what happened to the Greeks. It is simply not true the Ottoman empire was some kind of backward tribal lunatic uncivilised religious nutters.

re "Given these massacres, their hatred and wish to kill whites and Christians - attacked Europe anyway."

Well they did invade Europe, that is why Kosovo and Bosnia were full of Muslims. And Europe endlessly invaded the Muslims (and africa, americas asia) which is why the French and British controlled the middle-east post WW2.

What were the Europeans doing there in the first place, it was not their land or people!

Why are the Israelis there today, it is not their land nor people either. The invaded always fights back, French underground against the Nazis = LOGIC.

I will not blame the Palestinians for what happened to the Israelis or for what will happen into the future.

This is why - history is a hard problem. Billions on earth do not know about this story, as the Greeks and Turks lack the PR skills of the Israelis to create global popular "public opinion" out of what are in fact historical myths and distortions.

Most people's beliefs and opinions are wrong.

Anyone who was serious about knowing the true history of Israel would already know all about Truman and what the US did and thought.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/

The United States and the Recognition of Israel: A Chronology
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/israel/palestin.htm

Harry S. Truman diary entry - Read it.
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/index.php?documentid=1947diary23&pagenumber=1

I researched the real history over decade, Objectively!
Checked who was reliably vs who was not. Truman Library is only *one piece* of a jigsaw puzzle of ~1000 separate factual pieces of the real picture.

I came to my conlcusions based on evidence. It's a con.

The #1 reason why Palestinians have never stopped fighting and calling out this 70 year criminal injustice by the whole world.
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Posted by Thomas O'Reilly, Monday, 26 September 2016 11:32:12 AM
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Chereful said;
I think they would have eventually attacked Europe anyway.

They did ! Dozens of times. In the late 18th century they were
defeated at the gates of Vienna by Austrian and Polish armies.
Of course also they invaded Spain and held it for some hundreds of years.
Greece was occupied and only got its freedom in the 19th or 20th century.
They shelled the Parthenon which is why it is so damaged. ISIS ? Hmmm
They also invaded France and got up to near a village called Paris.
Every few hundred years they have another go.
They are trying again with a new tactic called immigration.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 26 September 2016 11:45:15 PM
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Thomas,

You are all over the place, some conquests are OK, but others are not?

The palestinians can be forgiven for the atrocities they commit, as the Israelis are to blame simply for existing.

The moment that you believe that the rest of the world is wrong, and you have the secret should be the point when you realize that you are a conspiracy theorist.

I will not blame the Israelis for what happened to the Palestinians or for what will happen into the future.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Tuesday, 27 September 2016 11:56:40 AM
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