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The Forum > Article Comments > An Asian view on radical Islam and terror > Comments

An Asian view on radical Islam and terror : Comments

By Damian Pheny, published 7/12/2015

A system that empowers the people has evolved in Judeo Christian civilization that is the keystone of hope for billions around the world.

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I can't helping thinking the author is ultimately trying to find a valid reason/excuse for the state of his own country.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Monday, 7 December 2015 8:31:31 AM
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This is a very interesting paper, if I read it right. I've read it through two or three times and the author certainly touches on some truths. But I suspect that some of what he writes is meant to be ironic - for example: after citing The economist on the growing threat if Islamism in S-E Asia, he writes, "The IS does not operate in South East Asia and is not a direct threat to the region.. " Is that meant to be ironic, even sarcastic ? A bit puzzling. It would have been handy if he had put "" marks around his ironic statements.

But perhaps he didn't mean to be ironic: perhaps some of his statements are simply contradictory. For example, I'm still trying to work out what he meant by writing that Asians 'will welcome mutually beneficial economic cooperation but only if accompanied by meaningful diplomatic, political and even military reinforcement for the removal of oppressive regimes and the establishment of accountable and fair governments' when he has elsewhere condemned precisely such interference.

Or: ' The conceited notion that Western liberalism is a "one size fits all" concept is absurd. Imposing infinite diversity in a society is simply a recipe for the disastrous disintegration of that society.'
Sorry, whoever says that one size fits all ? If anything, Western governments and systems have been pretty laissez-faire about letting people do their thing. Is that what he means by the second sentence ? What does it mean, to 'impose diversity' ? That the west is to be damned from both ends ?

And then there are the straw men: I can't recall any media trumpeting about the UN 'as the guardians of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'.

[TBC]
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 7 December 2015 10:18:20 AM
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[continued]

And what utopian governments? 'Western civil society must urgently recognize and take responsibility for their utopian governments.' Utopian ? Sez who ? One problem with 'civil society' is that it is such an amorphous but wonderful beast that nobody can really demand anything of it.

Least of all that 'it' can do something in some other part of the world: 'Asians pray, that Western civil society will demand a paradigm shift in foreign and domestic policies that will enable us all to get on with our lives, safely, in our own countries; complete with our culture, religious practices, ethnic values and, with the dignity we deserve.'

From faulty memory, I recall that the 'Arab Spring' started off in Tunisia after the self-immolation of a street-seller, and spread very quickly - remember the hundreds of thousands in the squares ? - to Egypt, Syria, Libya, and the Gulf States. I don't think any of it, ANY of it, was at the instigation of the evil US or UN. Those movements were home-grown: home-grown civil society movements. Of course civil society organisations, and governments, in the West, supported them Things can go wrong, and they certainly did on those occasions. But it's so easy to blame outsiders for when things go belly-up.

And what did he mean by constant references to 'liberalism' ? Liberalism is an extremely broad term. It even encompasses those earlier forces: 'Blessed in yesteryear with visionary and selfless statesmen, a system that empowers the people has evolved in Judeo Christian civilization that is the keystone of hope for billions around the world.' Some may say that a shorthand term for that imperfect system is, in fact, 'liberalism', at least in one of its forms.

[TBC]
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 7 December 2015 10:25:38 AM
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[continued]

And the contradictions almost explode off the page here: 'Western liberals in an effort to assuage their conscience about the rape and plunder of the Third World cannot, and should not be allowed to demand that Western civil society sacrifice its security and way of life for the sake of their bleeding hearts. Instead, they should demand an end to Machiavellian manipulation of Third World dictators to enrich Western capitalists.' Umm, ..... what ? The West should get involved ? The West shouldn't get involved ? We all should place a bet both ways ?

I was slightly relieved however when he acknowledges that '.... Western society is crippled by its own altruism and conscience in dealing with the fact that the threat is preeminently - Islam.' What, Western liberalism is crippled by its conscience ? Does he mean Western civil societies, the touchstones of liberalism anywhere ? And, apart from greedy Western capitalists, and weak Western liberal civil society, Islam is the main threat to us all ?

'A pox on both your houses' - the West AND Islam - won't really keep anybody safe and above it all.

So I look forward to another essay clarifying what he wants the Western world to do for 'Asia' [and that's not a 'one-size-fits-all' term ?!] to protect it from rising/non-rising Islamism.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 7 December 2015 10:29:28 AM
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While it's very comforting to know that Damian Pheny speaks for all of Asian civil society, I'm confused.

From Pheny's point of view, the US government's intervention in Syria has been "birdbrained" and resulted in the catastrophe which now threatens to destroy Europe. He doesn't mention that many of the "refugees" in Europe are economic invaders from Africa, other parts of the Middle East and South and South-East Asia and in no way connected with Syria. But he thinks that US "civil society" can somehow "rein in" that US government and set a shining model for Asian civil society to follow along the path of Judeo-Christian ethics. Not sure how many Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims or other Asians would agree with that.

But, Pheny says, Asians see the stupidity of the bleeding hearts in the West wanting to welcome into their midst Islamists whose only interest is to destroy them. Western liberalism, he says, has a disproportionate influence on politics, particularly in looking to the "integration" of Islamist values into the West. Many would agree. Yet the West has little direct impact on Asia's Islamist movements.

He rejects the capitalist West's "exploitation" of Asia, yet rejects the notion that sovereign nations in the region should be expected to resolve their own domestic political issues because their people are powerless in the face of their "robber baron" governments. He seems to believe the West is responsible for the future of Asia.

He therefor wants Western civil society to "demand a paradigm shift in foreign and domestic policies", but doesn't make clear whose policies he expects to be changed - the West's or Asia's. Like Asia, the West is not a monolith. Australia, for example, is very much a junior partner in the Western alliance, with little to no influence on US foreign or domestic policies. To speak of "the West" is actually not very helpful when he seems to be using the term as a substitute for "the United States".

Based on this article, I'm not too sure what Pheny wants or thinks is a practicable, viable solution.
Posted by calwest, Monday, 7 December 2015 10:56:28 AM
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"The Western powers are fully cognizant of..." - absolutely nothing! They don't even know that they supposed to be fighting an all out war against a threat far greater than anything Naziism and Communism ever posed to the Free World. They are even deliberately importing the enemy to live among us. They believe that there are 'degrees' of Islam, when there is only one Islam, and it hates us. Short of wiping the vile thing from the face of the Earth, it should be contained in the Middle East, and what ever countries it infests. Nothing out, nothing in, including people and trade.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 7 December 2015 12:09:07 PM
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I don't think the west will be interested in helping out Asia in any
way from Islam. The ME is too hard and Asia would be more difficult.
Watch Indonesia, their version of Islam allows beauty contests !
It was in Indonesia on BBC TV last night.
I think the ISIS mob would have had a stroke watching it.

If the fanatics, (Wahabis ?) are deeply in ISI and want to expand into
Asia I just do not see any help coming from the "west".
We have had enough.
We all know what is under the bench so do not provoke the "west" any further.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 7 December 2015 12:54:49 PM
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Hi Bazz,

That's wonderful news ! Indonesian women are often so beautiful - for some reason, I think of the most exquisitely stunning as coming from Surabaya or Gresik or Malang, or East Java generally, maybe it's something someone told me.

Do you have the video link ?

Thanks so much :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Monday, 7 December 2015 1:07:42 PM
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No sorry Joe I do not have it.
However it should be on bbc.com/news
It was not just Indonesians but women from many moslem countries including the UK.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 7 December 2015 1:15:50 PM
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Great article, but most western, enlightened, conservative, protesting Christians feel exactly the same way, as he says the Asians feel & i am sure he is speaking NOT just about Malaysians but many other Asians he has met OS.

Cobber the hound, NO he is clearly taking about Asians in general as he would be meeting Asians other than Malaysians in Malaysia & has probably travelled to other Asian nations as well.

Loudmouth, you are over analysing, his intent is quite clear, we have become too soft, too kind for our own good & are destroying ourselves because of it. I have had similar conversations with Asians who have asked why we allow them to rape our country so easily, just invite them in to steal from us & our children.

calwest, read my reply to Loudmouth, then this. He is clearly speaking about North America, Europe, Australia & NZ with the USA as the leader of that group. & he is right if the USA does not wake up to itself soon? if the USA falls? WE ALL ARE DOOMED.

ttbn, islam in the land of OZ is only symptom of the virus that is ANTI-socialism. What we must do ASAP is deport ALL muslims. Then unleash ALL of our counter terrorism forces ASIO, AFP & Police in all states, territories on radical, extreme religion in the land of OZ. ALL supporters of Socialist Alliance, Socialist Alternative, the watermelons, Fabian Socialists, left ALP factions & other fake minor parties set up by them must be arrested & jailed for the term of their natural lives. NO Australian child will be safe until we do.

Bazz, i wonder how many Aussies have forgotten the Bali bombing?

Loudmouth & Bazz, that is exactly what the article is about. Westerners looking at Indonesian or other Asian women & letting testosterone do the thinking. Women from ALL over the world can be nice to look at. Which does NOT alter the fact that islam is an evil religion.
Posted by imacentristmoderate, Monday, 7 December 2015 3:07:56 PM
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Certainly a primitively radical Left article, that is in itself an indicator of the poor standard of education and brain functioning in Malaysia.

Interesting:

http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/director/115339/MR-DAMIAN-PHENY

and then http://www.checkcompany.co.uk/accounts/659724/dormant-company-accounts---24k-bling-limited

"24K Bling" in http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=24k+bling+bling = "fake gold"
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 December 2015 4:00:37 PM
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Looks like ISIS may not want to leave Southeast Asia untouched. Best not to look white or European in Thailand.

"ISIS members attempting to target Russians in Thailand, FSB warns" http://intelnews.org/2015/12/07/01-1823/ December 7, 2015:

Russian intelligence officials have warned authorities in Thailand that the Islamic State is planning to strike at Russian targets in the Southeast Asian country. Thai authorities received the warning in a memorandum dated November 27, 2015, which came from the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). The document, marked ‘urgent’, warned of a series of coordinated attacks against Russian-related businesses and facilities in several cities across Thailand...It warned that the FSB had identified at least 10 Syrian citizens, all members of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), who had entered Thailand between October 15 and October 31.

According to the FSB memorandum, the ISIS operatives had entered Thailand in three separate groups, arriving to the country from different international destinations. The largest of the groups, consisting of 4 members, is believed to have traveled to the coastal city of Pattaya, in eastern Thailand. Two more operatives went to Phuket Island in the Andaman Sea, while two other Syrians traveled to capital Bangkok. The two remaining members of the group went “to an unknown location”, said the FSB memorandum. After receiving the FSB memorandum, the Royal Thai Police issued a warning that ISIS may be trying to harm “Russians and Russia’s alliance with Thailand”. They also called for heightened security around tourist spots frequented by Russian tourists.

Phuket and Pattaya are busy resort destinations...nearly 2 million Russians visit Thailand each year, many of them in December. The Russian Federation maintains consulates in both cities, in addition to the Russian embassy in Bangkok. When asked by reporters on Friday about the FSB memo, Royal Thai Police officials said they had not been able to locate the alleged ISIS members, but added that security had been increased across the country. General Thawip Netniyom, who heads the country’s National Security Council, said no “unusual movement” had been detected, and insisted that “everything is safe” in the country.
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 December 2015 7:19:30 PM
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Meanwhile Luke Hunt, writing for The Diplomat, indicates Indonesia (and other Southeast Asian countries) may be a little more dangerous than usual.

"Islamic State on Trial in Indonesia" December 05, 2015 http://thediplomat.com/2015/12/islamic-state-on-trial-in-indonesia/

[maybe not good to look white in Indonesia either]

Indonesia is intensifying its efforts to mitigate any fallout from home-grown recruits returning from the battlefields in the Middle East, where hundreds have fought with the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

...hearings against at least 13 men now facing charges of conspiring with terrorists. Aged between 32 and 51, seven of the 13 are on trial together. They had raised fears that militants could return and carry out strikes on home soil, where the memories of the carnage caused from bombings conducted by Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) – an al-Qaeda affiliate – remain vivid.

Trials involving another six are also underway. They all face up to 20 years behind bars under Indonesia’s tough counter-terrorism laws.

Further, Indonesians found guilty of pledging allegiance to ISIS are also considered to have pledged allegiance to a foreign country, and this can result in a person’s citizenship being revoked.

...Authorities say an estimated 700 Indonesians are now fighting in Iraq and Syria. Another 200 people from Malaysia, Singapore, and the Philippines, authorities believe, have also taken up arms in the Middle East in a conflict which has highlighted the differences between the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam.

...In its latest risk assessment report, IHS Jane’s 360 stressed...the threat indicated an increased risk of attacks on hotels and clubs, potentially involving small arms and crude improvised explosive devices..."

[All not good.]
Posted by plantagenet, Monday, 7 December 2015 8:50:00 PM
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