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The Forum > Article Comments > Why Ukraine matters to Australia? The answer is China > Comments

Why Ukraine matters to Australia? The answer is China : Comments

By Peter Hendy, published 23/4/2014

The urgent concern for his country is that the recent annexation of the Crimean peninsula may within days be followed by an invasion of the remainder of their country by Russia.

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What an appallingly hypocritical piece! All fingers pointing at Russian aggression, with nary a work on the openly aggressive manner of the western-led disposal of the elected, if unpopular, Ukraine government.
The very informative blog, http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.au/, has a thought provoking article today on how hypocrisy was the underlying cause behind the collapse of the Soviet Union. When the citizens of a country can no longer believe what they are told by their government, disillusionment sets in, disconnect becomes the norm and collapse will soon follow.
This author, and our current Abbott led government with Ms Bishop acting as sycophant-in-chief in her role as Foreign Minister might do well to reflect on that.
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 8:26:25 AM
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how are ya peter
have you heard todays broadcast?
[at the 28 minute mark]
http://whatreallyhappened.com/podcasts/hourtitle1.m3
what is a egus suitE digetal interface radar
RUSSIA..shut it down

one plane shut down a yanki
over engenererd lump..OF CAPO-TALIST of contractor junk

then over/flew THE HELPLESS YANKI BOAT..12 timES

THE WAR IS OVER
AND NOT A SHOT NEEDED TO BE DONE

DONT PUSH TOO HARD..thats nothing to what china has.

lock up some of the crooks
seize their assets..peace is come
judgment day begins 6 may

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=11
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 11:07:34 AM
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YOUR CLEARLY NOT A CHESS PLAYER
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_22/Putin-instructs-to-set-zero-VAT-on-air-traffic-to-and-from-Russias-Crimea-from-June-1-4373/

ok try again
THAT LINK LED NO WHERE
AGAIN
28 th minute
1 ST hour of the show..[TODAYS SHOW]
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/podcast.php

http://www.globalresearch.ca/polands-hand-in-ukraine-coup-detat-trained-putchists-two-months-in-advance/5378655
http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/duplicitous-human-rights-misinformation-ukraine/
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-02-220414.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zVgy9Jk0Ec
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Peddler_of_Iraq_War_Lies_Now_Pushes_Lies_On_Urkaine_to_Drum_Up_Confrontation_with_Russia/34642/0/0/0/Y/M.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_20833_5-slapstick-failures-by-modern-military-commanders.html
http://12160.info/group/embedding-is-not-a-crime/page/watch-michael-rivero-on-america-s-book-of-secrets-the-gold-conspi?xg_source=activity

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=16686
http://12160.info/xn/detail/2649739:BlogPost:1456005?xg_source=activity
http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/21/russia-ukraine_n_5188137.html
http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/need-thieving-warmongering-ruling-class/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-elite-the-great-game-and-world-war-iii/25160
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/bob-dole-talks-starting-world-war-three/
http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-us-government-has-put-full-time.html

https://securityledger.com/2014/03/is-analog-the-answer-to-our-digital-insecurity-dilemma/
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 11:28:02 AM
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‘morning Peter,

I like to get the big picture issues clear before delving into content, this helps focus on the main issues and avoids complex diversions.

My perhaps over simplistic perspective on the Ukraine is that Putin got sick of the EU overtures that were seen as a direct threat to strategic military, energy and geo-political assets.

Why did he do this? Because he can.

He stared down the weak, ineffective, incompetent, dithering, verbose Barak Obama over the Syrian chemical weapons and that finished the last remnants of US political will.

Whilst there are those who think US disengagement in the region is a good thing, there are also those who can see that Putin now has license to do what he wants. Thanks to meddling EU, UN and NATO bureaucracies and a totally ineffective US administration.

All the US can do now is run “interference”.

As for China, I am more inclined to see China’s motives as less to do with shared Russian motives and more to do with wobbly US foreign policy.

I see little to justify making this other than failed US/EU political maneuvering that back fired
Posted by spindoc, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 12:01:29 PM
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Sadly articles like this will always attract the spiteful comments of those who believe the West, and especially the United States, is inherently corrupt and evil, while finding excuses for every act of ruthlessness and aggression of those forces that oppose it. We have heard over and over again comments about how the unpopular but legitimate government of Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown by a bunch of neo-Nazis - a view happily supported by the Kremlin. The Yanukovych government was not simply unpopular, it was corrupt and incompetent, witnessed by the state of the economy it left behind. Even this may have been born by voters until the next election, but when Yanukovych cut off talks with the European Union, seen by many Ukrainians as their only lifeline to a tolerable future, they had to act. As for his successors, I have studied the backgrounds of all the prominent members of the current Cabinet and find they are across the political spectrum. Some are certainly on the right, but to suggest the entire government is neo-Nazi or even far right is arrant nonsense.
Posted by Graham Cooke, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 12:22:18 PM
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All very worrying developments for Australia, and the best reason yet, to crack on and just develop our own indigenous hydrocarbon resources, wherever they lay.
It is just lunacy, to be slowly going broke while presiding over energy resources, that may rival or even eclipse the known hydrocarbon resources of the entire M.E!
The key to both these conflicts is oil, and lots of it!
We just need to reconstitute Government owned oil and gas corporations, reacquaint ourselves with the, private enterprise tender and contractual processes, and just get on developing what we already know about, like the 5 billion barrels of sweet light crude, believed to be in the Townsville trough!
5 billion x $130 dollars x 500 litres per barrel, is around 7,00500 billions worth of oil in that one single trough alone.
Nonetheless, the estimates are likely to be very conservative, and the oil in that one trough, possibly three times as much!
And there are even more promising prospects a little further out?
No further harm would befall those parts, [around 50%,] already dead and stripped of living coral.
Besides all that, our own indigenous sweet light crude, produces four times less hydrocarbons in actual use, from the wellhead to the harvester, than that which we currently import, and in a round-a-bout way, actually underwrite some of the Russian military swagger and or build up!
After the Townsville trough, we could use some of the quite massive profits we'd make, to explore and exploit some of even more promising prospects further out!
Simply put, large reliable liquid fuel supplies, would take the heat out of Asia, as would additional gas supplies.
And if we could send some of both to Europe, to make good any shortfalls created by trade sanctions against Russia, that would also help!
As would huge reserves, that could be wholesaled for around what it costs Russia and or Dutch Shell to extract, around $10.00 a litre?
Oil is an economic weapon, that can be used bite back/extract clench fisted compliance, but particularly, if you have decades worth of reliable supplies!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 12:36:36 PM
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A good article.

If I placed geo-political bets I'd put money on a defacto Russian invasion-"referendum" of eastern Ukraine.

Fortunately China doesn't have the all important oil power of Russia. Russia's oil and gas reserves and exports allow it to get away with murder. Putin, a former KGB officer and current head-kicker, is certainly out-maneuvering a divided EU and a weak US President.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 1:27:50 PM
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Wonderful Western propaganda. Rudd's animosity towards China?!? Utter rubbish! No mention of (US) Victoria Nuland's interference and support of those neo-nazi separatists, and America's involvement in undermining that democratically, though corrupt, Ukraine government, in order to place their own puppet in power...right on Russia's doorstep.

To put it another way...what would the US do if Russia placed its own puppet government in Mexico? All Hell would break loose. But it's okay for the US to act this way. Utter swill. The US has NO MORAL GROUND to stand on after two recent unjust wars, ignoring international law, committing crimes against humanity that include "rendering"...kidnapping to torture and even kill... and the myriad of lies they espouse.

This is gross hypocrisy by the West, led by the US. And like the lackeys to the US that we are, our government is party to their atrocities, fascist policies, and land and market-grabbing.
Posted by Dick Dastardly, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 4:16:11 PM
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A good article? Depends how you define 'good'.

I guess if the world thought that 'nukes at twenty paces' was a good idea they'd be cheering Obama on, urging him to engage in MAD even if it resulted in the end of human civilization!

It's amazing that so few people can see that adopting a 'them and us' position is going to bring about the end of the human specie sooner than we think.

Who cares, I say. They aren't worth a hill of beans anyway!
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 4:16:19 PM
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I can think of no argument against the assertion that the oligarchs in power in Kiev, and elsewhere in the old Soviet Union, are corrupt to the bone. But to merely say that, and to then let those doing the corrupting escape notice, is akin to arresting a prostitute while her john takes a taxi home.
Also, the money and system that fosters corruption tends to be two-edged sword. We are finding, and will find increasingly in the future, that corruption cuts both ways. Think of the "Beltway" in Washington D.C., and ask yourself if the morals practised there are really what we want to align ourselves with.
I'm not saying either China or Russia is any better, or different. But it's that old saw about one finger pointing out leaves three others pointing in.
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 4:27:46 PM
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Russian Sukhoi..Su/24..with the newest jamming/complex paralyzed/the most modern American combat...management system.."Aegis"..installed on the destroyer "USS Donald Cook".

Pavel Zolotarev,/Deputy Director,..Institute of USA and Canada, shares details..about/which...is being actively discussed in the Russian media..and by bloggers.

US destroyer "Donald Cook".,.with cruise missiles.."Tomahawk" entered the neutral waters of the Black Sea on April 10...The purpose was a demonstration of force and intimidation..in connection with the position of Russia in Ukraine and Crimea...The appearance of American warships..in these waters is in contradiction of the Montreux Convention..about the nature and duration of stay in the Black Sea by the military ships of countries..[not washed by this se]a.

In response,..Russia sent an...unarmed bomber Su-24..to fly around the U.S. destroyer...experts say that this plane..was equipped with the latest Russian electronic...warfare complex.

According to this/version,.."Aegis" spotted from afar the approaching aircraft,..and sounded alarm....Everything went normally, American radars calculated the speed of the approaching target.

And suddenly..all the screens went blank.
"Aegis"..was not working any more,..and the rockets could not get target information..Meanwhile, .Su-24 flew over the deck of the destroyer,..did battle turn..and simulated missile attack on the target...Then it turned and repeated the maneuver.

And did so 12 times.

Apparently,..all efforts to revive the "Aegis" and provide target information for the defence failed...Russia's reaction to military pressure from the United States was profoundly calm, feels the Russian political scientist Pavel Zolotarev:

The demonstration was original enough...A bomber without any weapons, but having onboard equipment for jamming enemy radar, worked against a destroyer equipped with "Aegis",..the most modern system of air and missile defence.

But this system of mobile location, in this case the ship, has a significant drawback. That is, the target tracking capabilities. They work well when there is a number of these ships which can coordinate with each other somehow...In this case there was just one destroyer. And, apparently, the algorithm of the radar in the "Aegis” system on the destroyer..did not load under the influence..of jamming by the Su-24..

the folly..continues..almost/like..they never heard..re/fatima,
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 5:16:16 PM
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This article does not confront the truth.No mention of the illegal invasions of Afghanistan,Pakistan ,Somalia, Iraq, Libya.Vietnam by the USA ,to name a few.

Russia always had a naval base in Crimea. There was no invasion. In Feb the USA backed the over throw of a legally elected Govt by this Nazis movement. What the pack of lies in this article!

The real reason the West want the Ukraine is to put their aggressive missile shields next to Russia and rightfully Russia won't tolerate it. Would the USA stand the illegal overthrow of Canada and Russian missiles placed there ? I think not !

The reason why China and Russia are being demonised is because of Western Corporate Imperialism. They want their New World Order.

China and Russia have many Govt Bnanks they are free of the Western Debt money creation system. Their Govts have the lowest debt on the planet. Putin recently shut down much of the Western shadow banking systems particularly those dealing in toxic derivatives.

China and Russia do not want to go the way of Australia who sold off 4 state Govt Banks and the Commonwealth. Now we are imprisoned in debt.

It is the Central Bankers who control the West and its Govts.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 5:44:43 PM
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Yes the US, along with Australia, have been involved in usually UN sanctioned armed interventions. BUT that doesn't make Russia's current threats and aggression right.

A nuclear exchange is of course unwarranted even though it dramatises the arguments of the Left - who quietly support Bob Carr's inflightist views ;)
Posted by plantagenet, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 6:47:19 PM
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Plantagenet this not a left/right issue.It is about logic,common sense and seeing the truth.

Putin rightfully will not back down and if you want a full on nuclear war, keep backing the imperialist West since they want to control everyone on this planet. The USA has 850 military bases on this planet and no other country comes close to their military spending while they have 40 million of their people on food stamps and Obama continues to trash their Constitution and rights.

What will you do when bankers own all your assets ? They want to confiscate our deposits when the next big collapse happens. It is called "bail in" and it has been endorsed by APRA our banking control authority answerable only to the Private Bank of International Settlements. Our banks no longer answer to our Govts. What does that tell you ?
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 7:24:39 PM
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It was therefore..not only a nervous reaction..to the fact of flying around by the Russin bomber..which was common practice during the Cold War...The reaction of the Americans was due to the fact that most modern system,..especially its informative or radar part, did not work adequately...Therefore, there was such a nervous reaction to the whole episode.

After the incident,..the foreign media reported that "Donald Cook" was rushed into a port in Romania...There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation...It seems that all 27 people have written that they are not going to risk their lives.

This is indirectly confirmed by the Pentagon statement according to which the action demoralized the crew of the American ship.

What are the possible consequences of the incident provoked by the U.S. in the Black Sea? Pavel Zolotarev forecasts:

I think that Americans are somehow going to reflect on improving the system “Aegis". This is a purely military aspect. In political terms, there is hardly any likelihood of demonstrative steps by either side. That is enough.

Meanwhile, for Americans it is a very unpleasant moment. In general, the missile defence system which they deploy involves huge expenditures. They have to prove each time that it is necessary to allocate funds from the budget.
..At the same time, the ground component of the ABM was tested in ideal conditions and showed a low efficiency. This fact is concealed by the Pentagon. The most modern component, the sea-based system "Aegis" also showed its shortcomings in the present case.

The system with which the Russian Su-24 shocked the American destroyer "Donald Cook" has the code name "Khibiny". This is the name of the mountain range on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle. "Khibiny" is the newest complex for radioelectronic jamming of the enemy...They will be installed on all the advanced Russian planes .

Recently the complex has undergone regular testing exercises on the ground in Buryatia...

Apparently, the tests which were conducted under conditions as close to real as possible, were successful.
Read more: http://indian.ruvr.ru/2014_04_21/Russian-Su-24-scores-off-against-the-American-USS-Donald-Cook-5786/
Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 7:37:11 PM
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UOG thanks for the link. This is a big blow to Western Imperialist plans for a nuke war against Russia and China. Currently they do not have the military advantage.

For the moment our banksters will to continue to print more money propping up their derivative scams as they cannot afford a revolution from the masses and losing a war against Russia/China. Maths tells us that eventually money printing collapses economies and our pressititute media continue to ignore it. Their think tanks will be working overtime to sort out this major set back.

Will the dumbed down masses ever realise how they are being screwed ?
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 9:08:28 PM
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Most posts have missed Hendy's real objective which is to justify the $12 billion on the F35 Fighters which are required to meet Australia's commitment to the US policy of containing China.
Posted by Leslie, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 10:00:06 PM
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One under God. I have tried to track down the source of these stories circulating about the Donald Cook incident , and Khibiny neutralizing the Aegis system. They seem to have originated from a blog site, and cannot be verified.
The Aegis system on US ships poses an immediate and real threat to Russia's security. It is the mobile form of the missile shield to be installed in neighbouring countries as part of NATO's encircling of Russia, and to which it is responding.
Posted by Leslie, Wednesday, 23 April 2014 10:26:54 PM
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Leslie

'Most posts have missed Hendy's real objective which is to justify the $12 billion on the F35 Fighters which are required to meet Australia's commitment to the US policy of containing China.'

Exactly. And the funding for which will require raising the retirement age to 70, further dismantling of the welfare system, privatisation of what little is left of the revenue-earning parts of the public sector, and further cuts to public health and education spending. As for our crumbling public infrastructure - well, a bit of spit and a bandaid or two is all it needs to keep standing for another decade or so.

And this is only the start. Australia will need to squeeze many more tens of billions of dollars from the public coffers to dutifully fund our imperial ally's coming war with China and Russia - a conflict that, unless the Western media starts to show a smidgin of long overdue gumption, is all but unavoidable.

As for the Ukraine, it has SFA to do with Australia, not because it's on the other side of the globe and its history is light years away from our own, but because the Ukrainian people - especially in the south and east - have made their feelings embarrassingly clear to Washington, London and Berlin that they know full well who is really screwing their country.
Posted by Killarney, Thursday, 24 April 2014 4:10:06 AM
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Killarney that $12 billion for useless fighter planes is over $2000 + interest for every household in Australia. If there is a war with China conventional weapons will be useless.

As previously stated ,Russia and China have a majority of Govt Banks and cannot be brought under control of the Western Debt money creation system.This is why they are being surrounded and demonised. Prior 2008 GFC Russia and China were our friends and were expected to buckle under our financial system. The opposite happened and the BRICS nations got stronger. The West is willing to have a nuclear war to achieve their NEW WORLD ORDER.

Good to see the people of South Western Ukraine know who is screwing them because the people of this country have not a clue.http://cecaust.com.au/
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 24 April 2014 6:40:58 AM
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