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The Forum > Article Comments > The most profitable gas in the world > Comments

The most profitable gas in the world : Comments

By Robert Bensh, published 4/4/2014

Right now, the pipeline system is nothing but a conduit for Russian gas into Europe. It could be much more.

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As Ukraine is a corrupt mess politically and economically, with the Russian wolf still at the door, heroic capitalist changes are required to boost Ukraine above rust belt status.
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 4 April 2014 9:28:56 AM
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Russian gas may well be the most profitable gas in the world, but then, that could be said of anything marketed at the point of a Russian rifle?
We should counter this form of marketing, with the least expensive gas in the world!
Bio-gas!
Bio-gas,(methane) is created naturally or via a two tank system digester.
Every household or accommodation high rise, produces enough biological waste, to produce enough bio-gas, to completely power their homes, all while providing free hot water.
Adding food scraps/wastage to the digester process, creates a salable energy surplus.
Currently, it is possible to power diesel engines with this gas, just by putting some steel wool in the intake, that removes most of the Co2 created with the methane.
The energy coefficient of this type of energy conversion, is somewhere between 20-40%
The engine has many moving parts which can and do wear out, creating ongoing inefficiency over time!
However, scrubbing this gas and then feeding it to a super silent ceramic cell, with no moving parts, produces results which include little or no carbon emission, and an energy coefficient, of up to 80%!
Or virtually double that of current conversion versions.
The most profitable gas in the world, ought to be countered with the cheapest, and indeed, locally available to all humans who produce biological waste!
Meaning, the world could end its reliance on Russian gas inside a year, if we were but led by thinkers, rather than ideologues, or the powerful, accepting covert backhanders, from current oil/gas suppliers?
Well?
If there is another more convincing explanation for the current status quo, I'd like to hear it!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 4 April 2014 11:05:56 AM
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What gibberish. Ukraine has no gas; it has pipelines which were not built or paid for by Ukrainians.
Posted by Leslie, Friday, 4 April 2014 12:20:33 PM
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Reality check by Bloomberg. "Ukraine hosts a network of Soviet-era pipelines that carry more than half of Russia’s gas exports to the European Union, any disruption of supply puts the region’s energy security at risk."
Posted by Leslie, Friday, 4 April 2014 12:46:20 PM
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Gibberish?
It is reported fact that the Crimea has substantial reserves of both gas and oil!
Hence the Russian interest?
I mean, they wouldn't want the Ukraine to stop being dependent on Russia, who clearly use their oil and gas, as economic blackmail, to keep Ukraine rolling over, begging for a tummy rub and out of NATO!
The Ukraine also has huge shale deposits, which if fully developed, could sound the death knell of Russian control and or, manipulation?
Those shale deposits, some in the east, some in the west, if fully developed, might well end European dependence on Russian oil or gas!
Something Putin, who owns significant oil wells or shares himself, would not welcome?
After all, the only reliable export incomes generated by a still impoverished Russia, are largely the product of oil and gas sales!
And it just about all that finances Russia's military?
I mean, tax avoidance in Russia, by the ruling elite is legendary?
Were the Ukraine to develop a bio-gas industry, never again could they be blackmailed by their larger neighbor, during the height of a sub zero Russian/Ukraine winter!
Moreover, they would never ever run out of gas, or have the tap turned off, by a hostile, sabre rattling, price gouging foreign supplier!
When the soviet union broke up, so also did the ownership of former soviet pipelines, nuclear power stations and ICBM silos!
If Russia and or Putin has a problem accepting that? Tough!
And hardly a logical reason to start a new cold war, or conflict with a smaller Ukraine, which has a fairly large standing Army of it's own; and a defense posture based on the never ever defeated Austrian self defense model.
I mean, the Russians, with all the might of the soviet union at their disposal, couldn't defeat tiny Afghanistan!
So how do you think they'd fare, trying to bite off a much bigger lump, that is a now thoroughly enraged hostile Ukraine, which includes many Russian speakers in the east, who hate the Russian dictator Putin with a rare passion, previously reserved for Herr Hitler?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 4 April 2014 2:31:14 PM
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The last Soviet Union president, Mr Gorbachev, was a Ukrainian!
The Ukraine was the second largest state of that former confederation, and as the food bowl, generated much of the wealth and billions in wheat export incomes, much of which would have paid for the pipelines, which now traverse Ukrainian land!
The Ukraine, with the River Don Cossack, has a enduring history of military conflict and armed resistance against Russia, that even predates the Soviet Union.
The Soviet Union acquired the Ukraine as the spoils of repeated wars, rather than informed consent, or Ukrainian acquiescence?
Some Russians may well pine for the former Soviet Union, their place at the centre of it, along with the former power and influence, that that gave them.
However, they stand almost alone as a former state of the Soviet confederation, in wanting a return to that outcome! Or the cold war, and standing on the brink of mutually assured destruction; and the gulags and slave labor, that was an inherent part of it!?
A very small minority of Russians want to return to those days, and all that went with it.
However, the overwhelming sane majority, clearly do not!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 4 April 2014 3:06:32 PM
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http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/imf-shock-treatment-ukraine-collapse-standard-living/
its standard..opperation/procedure..globally
http://www.dekritischebelegger.nl/grondstoffen/goud/eu-wil-uw-kluizen-kraken/
[its not/us.,.its the imf/austerity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJEuXFdjXkU
its unbelievable the ideas the capitalists seek to steal/from the people..talk about Ukraine/facing the executioner..[find the asset sell it off/then spend half the profits fixing the pipeline/for those who bought it 'run down'..but have bound govts hands..to give half it back..fixed up..to those who formented the uprising..to steal/the public utility cash cow plum
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=16188

so next/they cut pensions/we know the austerity game
http://investmentwatchblog.com/u-s-to-pay-off-public-debt-5747-years-at-100-dollars-per-second/
<<>>Eventually, it will happen, and what elections will tell us simply is how long it will take.>>
http://rinf.com/alt-news/latest-news/urging-new-path-forward-tens-thousands-demand-end-eu-austerity/
<<>.There are a lot of resources..to be developed in Ukraine,..and there are also quite a few companies..who have assets they cannot development,..primarily due to lack of funding or marginal management teams...These companies will now be seeking to transact with larger players...lol..[preventing/the funding]
http://xrepublic.tv/node/8304

Historically, the most significant red flag for new investors in Ukraine has been working with the government. It's too early to determine whether that will change. Bureaucracy generally kills deals more than anything, and foreign companies coming in will never be able to understand how the bureaucracy works.
http://thehill.com/293919-obama-signs-stock-act-step-back
http://rinf.com/alt-news/breaking-news/ukraine-fascist-coup/
The smart investor will employ capital through a Ukrainian private entity to maximize investment dollars. Western management teams, without help from local partners, won't be able to operate in this venue even if they are top-notch managers.>>

cause/we bought/them all out?
its called..the enron-isation..of the world
[simply capture energy/production\distribution/billing rights etc..then bleed us dry..[plus carbon tax on top/plus service fees \;service charges/levies/infrastructure/spending[jobs jobs jobs/for thugs to/further bleed you dry..by guilt..and lie

they play the same game/with carbon credits
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16076&page=0
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 5 April 2014 8:36:31 AM
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underonegod,
Wow!
And to add, someone, [possibly the former President?] has transferred 73 billions of Ukrainian public funds, into not so secret anymore, private offshore accounts.
Were the Ukraine authorities be able to recover this inherently stolen money, they would be able to develop many of their most valuable assets, and indeed, lift average wages above $100.00 a month!
Those sort of average wages, could cause some manufacturers, to change their plans to move to China, which has wages inflation that is hovering around 10%+ per?
And there are some American firms "invited" to leave Russia; and the Ukraine is just next door!
In recent years, Swiss banks have been less reluctant, in exposing problematic accounts, and or, allowing the true owners of this money to have it back, for a suitable handling fee of course?
Failing that, one can see a very cogent case for Europe, to invest very heavily in helping the Ukraine to develop its energy resources!
For the very simple reason, it would allow them to stop having to rely on a price gouging Russia for anything!
And the Ukraine is still a major grain producer, which still earns it considerable export dollars!
If Russia were to invade the Ukraine, to guarantee its own food security, it would also need to take Poland and Hungry once more as a buffer?
Only this time, it can't send Mongolian tanks and soldiers to quell the inevitable revolts!
Meaning, any westward move by Putin would be far bigger bite than a still comparatively poor Russia could chew! Nor is NATO likely to sit still and allow that to happen!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 5 April 2014 10:16:30 AM
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Totally off topic:

(Soon to be Sir) John Howard

as painted by Dubya Bush http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-05/john-howard-by-george-w-bush/5369514

Human guppy?
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 5 April 2014 10:31:47 AM
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One under god and Rhrosty. I doubt R will read you list of sources, as he seems to have made up his mind on every topic offered in OLO. Shame really; it is necessary in old age to keep mentally active, but not to be trapped in the last Cold War and not to try to understand why since the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO has moved east to encircle Russia. As I have repeatedly argued, this threat will force Russia to embrace China and Iran, which will set back the reform so desperately needed.
Throasty. Putin is not so stupid as to invade East Ukraine. That would be counterproductive and unnecessary. What I fear is that when the cost of the EU/US rescue of the dysfunctional, bankrupt Ukraine is felt there will be pleas to Russia for help.
Throsty. Incidently, do you have any incontrovertible evidence that Putin “owns significant oil wells or shares”- world wide investigations have so far failed to document it.
Posted by Leslie, Saturday, 5 April 2014 1:06:20 PM
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Rhrosty- with apologies to other readers for raising another irrelevance- but why do you declare "Mr Gorbachev, was a Ukrainian!"
He was born in southern Russia, and though from a peasant family, graduated from Moscow University cum laude with a law degree.
Surely , if you want to exploit Gorby, you would cite reports that "
The world should welcome the prospect of Crimea becoming part of Russia as it rectifies a historic mistake from the Soviet era, the Soviet Union's last leader Mikhail Gorbachev says. He described the weekend's referendum where almost 97 per cent voted in favour of Crimea joining Russia "as a success that responded to the expectations of Crimeans."
Posted by Leslie, Saturday, 5 April 2014 1:42:47 PM
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Hi Rhosty,

I think Gorbachov was born in Rostov, just outside Ukraine. You might be thinking of Nikita Krushchev, who was Ukrainian.

Just before the Russian aggression against Georgia in 2008, I was reading about a huge pipeline being built and almost completed, from Turkmenistan across the Caspian Sea, through Azerbaijan and Georgia, to Turkey and then up through Greece and Kosovo and Bosnia to central Europe. I forget the name of the project. When the Russians engineered their provocation, the pipeline had only twenty miles or so from Georgia to the Turkish border, to finish.

Of course, since then the Russians have learnt one thing: they don't need any 'Incident', or 'provocation', they can just invade whenever, wherever, whoever. They're big, they once had an Empire which they are fully entitled to get back and even extend, in their own minds, so the world can kiss their @rses. Gosh, real internationalists !

I heard Russian thugs singing the old Stalinist anthem on TV, but waited in vain to hear them follow it with the "Internationale'. I think any Leftist useful idiot may be waiting a long time to hear that wonderful anthem again.

Mind you, I still get a thrill hearing the old Soviet anthem, not having a clue what the words mean: perhaps something like, 'From the balmy Adriatic to frozen Alaska, and from holy Ararat to the Finnish lakelands, it's all ours, and forever.'

Imperialism certainly dies slow in the human breast.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 5 April 2014 3:19:32 PM
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Hi Loudmouth

Here tis http://youtu.be/nbG0BBtUht0

The Soviet National Anthem for your listening and viewing pleasure.

Notice all the women in it (not).

Unsurprisingly these slab faced gents neither understood nor tolerated feminist causes.

Hence neo-Komrad Putin sees Pussy Riot as a subversive threat and gaols accordingly.

Cheers

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 5 April 2014 3:43:42 PM
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A guilty thanks, Plantagenet :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 5 April 2014 4:00:17 PM
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The Ukraine will be lucky to survive after the greedy bankers under the guise of the IMF are finished, then they will be forced to devalue the currency so western corporations can buy the infrastructure of the country for next to nothing after the IMF make them privatize everything.

Greece all over again.
Posted by Philip S, Saturday, 5 April 2014 5:43:46 PM
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Hi Phillip,

Isn't paranoia fun ?

i.e. from the flimsiest evidence, you can predict that

(a) Putin's Neo-empire is completely blaimless of any involvement in the free choice of the Crimean Ukrainian-Tartar population;

(b) the West, i.e., the IMF, i.e. the US, i.e. the CIA, is responsible for everything that is going wrong, or might go wrong, with anything remotely connected to the Ukraine, which is, after all, despite containing fifty million living, breathing and thinking human beings, just an appendage of Mother Russia, the rightful ruler of all that Tsars have hitherto surveyed.

Well, I'm glad that's settled.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Saturday, 5 April 2014 7:39:50 PM
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big mouth..seems under the impression there are good guys in this
i think the title and the topic reveal..its about money[fullstop]

there is no good guy bad guy
but lets say russia went into canada..and said its going to do like it did in cuba/which is what is going on/has been going on for the last 5 years in a multi billion-dollar program..where supporting natzies is just part of the game

we know usa all the way..joe would be there driving the ruski scum out of canada..i feel its been on the level of a chess game/but with the aggressor/usa using real knives..wanting to put real made in usa equipment right into putins face/after the succes of poland and the DEFEAT IN GEORGIA..NOW WE GOT A STALE MATE

YOUR STUFF JOE..IS STALE
HOW COME..THE NEW GOVT IMMEDIATELY APPOINTS A BANKER..IN CHARGE
WHO IMMEDIATELY GIVES AWAY 25 TON OF GOLD..WHO IMMEDIATELY PUTS A DEBT OVER..THE PEOPLE...now we got a fool flagging stealing the pipes/playing war games.

did usa have a referendum before doing its many invasions[25..reportedly..since ww2..with over half usa economy being wAR BASED ITS CLEAR WHO IS PRETENDING TO BE..the white hat/THE GOOD GUY..paying for secret wars viA WAR ON DRUG USERS/GLOBALLY

LIKE IN SYRIA..ITS USA EVEN NATO..shhhh it steering to get the gold
or put in pipes for that BLACK GOLD THEY SOLD THEIR SOUL FOR.. its sad..you sucked in all that movie propaganda..its sad you think it good value to make war..its just sad sunshine..pathetic really..yeah its tradjic like a drunk needing to basH HIS WIFE TO STEAL HER HOUSEKEEPING MONEY...[only he goes around the town berating up any with gold rings and other things]..the house guest who knows best..has become a pest..but joe good old ruski hating joe..he knows best..

pathetically sad really
you been watching too much john wayne movies/them being on tv is allways a bad sign[by design][just lie hollow cost movies mean the palistinians are copping it rough.basic pr
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 6 April 2014 6:07:55 AM
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I FIND AS USUAL/POST LIMITATIONS..STOPPING THE PRODUCTIVE FLOW OF INFO..but lets continue..ITS RELATIVE HERE[as it relates to fatima/HRH/THE POPE AND RUSSIA..RETURNS US TO PRE FED/WHO SUBVERTED THE MESSAGE/THEN]

BUT ITS TIME IS NOW..talk to the pope
anyhow at the other thread..was said..by producer
[whaT REALLY NEEDS BE SPOKEN..BY TWO POPES WILLING TO DIE FOR 3 DAYS[WOUNDED]SHEEP/TO BRING THE peace maker or release the messiah at east gate/but i exceed my license.

productive/said..[re the hair shavers..[money printers?
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6323&page=0
<<..who choose to shave their heads.

<<..Debt is created artificially, not produced.>>

things can be taken/many ways..
they 'produced'..the fiction of money/that allowed us to hyper produce..to where we now are[and the usual fix for wealth..IS BOMB THEM[US]..BACK INTO POVERTY..THEN Inflate the money into thin air[loot the last drugs]..and build it all over again

its been worth the cost..[HAS BEEN PRODUCTIVE]..IN THAT IT GOT US TO WHERE WE NOW ARE[..but from here its all down hill/

WAY DOWN HILL ARMOGEDDON WWW..[WORLD WIDE WAR]
MURDER MAYHEM/FEAR FURYT VENGENCE LOOTING DESPOILING PLUNDERING THE LIVING..TO SERVE THE DEAD

WE HAVE XHANCE..TO END It
or begin it

THEN MUST LIVE[OR DIE/..BY IT]
2B CTD
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 6 April 2014 8:18:57 AM
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CTD..empty shops..with no or minuscule real asset or value..closing mega factories/landlords and property will be the next bubble bursting

its..not going to be pretty[but..look..if we open the shops/restore..all that broken/by war
get rid..of the death-taxes and sin taxes from tHE LIVING..

[ie all taxes/service-fees etc paid to govt..GONE][paid-in-full]../then suddenly it wont collapse..we got the cash flow/..credit capacity mean'S/way..to pay all debt..in full

OK/THEY..FORGO..SELLING FOR CENTS/the SOLAR/dollar
but..lets try..dollars..for CENT/CONSENT/sense?

no-fault DEFAULT.ISNT AS/GOOD AS..NO DEFAULT/BLAME/SHAME
[..AS A SURETY]

I PUT UP 3 WAYS..TO GET THERE..or rather stay were we are[wink]
think../with only better times ahead..one or all..[0']is like doubling down..the surety[IN-SURE/assured]

revalue coin..half-way..if you must..
just add one 0..instead of two
SO 5CENT=..50..cent..that still goes a long way..to paying the rent

[but with..two 0/s we KNOW ALL RENTS..WILL GET PAID..AND SOME WILL RISK STOCKING UP..A SHOP..BE/SELF-SUFFICIENT...SERVING/OTHER/loving other.

[LOOK..WE KNOW..IN THE END..THE MONEY-CHANGERS
ARE EXPERT..AT GETTING OUR MONEY..ok so anti-up the kitty..by a fair return dividend[lest we forget the commies..got shares when they went bust/all..we get..is paper..eNDLESS/BTOKEN-PRomises[made/SL;AVES/TO..DEBT.

capitalism..wants to kill..the lot of us/take our savings..leaving us paper promise/0f\shares..[talk about flooding..the mnarket[mugs thinking the banks vaults hold anything/will BUY UP OTHERS Paper[swop it for a tv like they ussr..DISSOLUTION]..then see..its all gone


<<..You can/have a..bucket load..of debt metaphorically,
<<..but you can never have..a bucket of debt...It is merely
<<..one of the ruses that enable..a non-productive parasite..a means to accrue productive wealth.>>

../*WELL*SAID*|..

IM SORRY..I CANT COMPREHEND..HOW/by
simply/FILLING UP AN EMPTY BUCKET..WITH TRUE GOD Given
LONG PREDICTED..COMMON HEALTH wealth..PAYED IN/FULL..BY..[../seed\..from..*the tree..*of life]..dividend/of heaven'S/LEVEn..a promise god..gave unto all..[mankind..relates]..

there is a whole..in the bucket..dear joe..
and..if we can buy-off..the money changers/meet ransom-DEMANDS

lets do it

HRH..HAS AGREED/TESTED THE THEORY
OBAMA..HAS SEEN THE OPPE..ITS A GO..im sure..even the russion knows

so..lets just..get going
im up for..being shot in front-of..the east gate
now..which other peter..to stand by me..WHO WONT HESITATE*
[HE KNOWS HE is called..but if..NOT the bad one..lets take the good one...test/this..thing/out.

abduct me,.at will..when ever your..easter-ready
i plan..to speak extensively..MAYBE AT THE MARDIGRASS..RHYME OF THE ROSEI...[FIRST WEAK-END IN MAY..OR AT THE TRIAL..6TH of may]

SEE SNOWDEN THREAD...4/more..info
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 6 April 2014 8:40:09 AM
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REPLY TO pro[post/liMIT]

SAME LINK
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6323&page=8

pro/said..IN REPLY..TO A WORDY..reply
<<..Although shorter..isn’t it the same as:

<<..Productive wealth must be shared proportionally,>>

NO..THATS CODE FOR YOU TAKING YOUR SHARE FROM ME
LEECHES WANT HALF/BY DOING NUTHIN..

[ALL Community equity/scam..is commie strife..is NICE[IN PRINCIPLE].TILL YOU FIND THE CREAM..GETS SLURPED UP BY THOSE ON Top of the 'INFO/CHain..proportion..service..yet/GETTING.first choice/and stuff THOSE NOT IN THE LOOP

[THINK..like....mrs/krudd...
WHO GOT RICH/FROM HOWARD PRIVATIZATION..OF SES.]
or public servants SCOOPING UP TELSTRA/commonwealth bank..power water

we must be motivated..TO BE individually..CREATIVE..not exploited by leeches..WANTING AN EQUITY/VOTING/ACTUAL-SHARE..of my effort..for their hindrance/burden/abuse and censure?

<<..were the creators of wealth..receive
more than the takers of wealth.>>

../DREAMING\..[..*tell him he is dreaming|*

BUT THATS..NOT HOW IT GOES
the workers..created the wealth/
hOW COME THEY CANT LIVE..ON THEIe well earned/hard earned WAGe

[look..im A FOOTY STAR..I WORK OUt..a few hours
a day..[a thing for which real workers must pay]
THEN I WORK ONE HOUR ON SUNDAY[playing is fun/
but look at the mug worker paying..FOR EVERYONE]

then..after the funplay/pay-day..I GO OUT....THERE IS A MUGG wage earner..working her 12 hour..per/day pay..slaving AWAY..

HAVING HALF HER pay taken..by late fees access fees sErvice sin taxes/fined going to work...NON STOP TOLL/TICKETING charges working 24/7..

[mate workers arnt treaTED LIKE THAT,..IN HEAVEN.

,,..<<..Although totally impractical..[EDIT]
<<....what would happen if we took money out of the global system.>>

GLOBALLY THERE ISNT..EVEN A PENNY..LOL in the global system
its an appearance..OF MONEY..[IE DIGITAL COMPUTER BITS]..virtual credit..created..in the morning..DISAPPEARING TO London..end of the day..THEN NEW-YORK..APPEARING MAGICALLY HERE[HOPEFULLY/NEXT DAY]

UNLESS OVER NIGHT..IT ALL JUST WENT AWAY..[2/be..ctd/here..[post/linits]

or here]
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=6293&page=0
Posted by one under god, Sunday, 6 April 2014 9:40:24 AM
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A referendum, conducted under a Russian gun, and without a no option, is not a referendum, but rather, and ultimatum!
I think Gorbachev claimed to be Ukrainian, spoke fluent Ukrainian, and came the the presidency from a position of power, in the Ukraine?
However, I could be misinformed, and that being so, I stand corrected.
The sooner the Ukraine and the world end all dependence on Mr Putin's Russia, for gas or anything whatsoever, the better!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Sunday, 6 April 2014 4:03:40 PM
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Hi Rhosty,

You may be right about Gorbachev.

I think that Putin is riding a tiger - now that he is on, he can't get off and he's heading for disaster by hanging on. His oil monopoly over the Ukraine has only a year or two to run, so he has to move quickly to drag all of the old Empire back under the Tsarist boot. We'll see.

The Russian population is declining, except for those of the Moslem republics within the Russian Federation. Life expectancy in Russia is actually declining - where else is that happening ? Russia depends on its oil dominance, nothing else. So this might be its last gasp for power.

I watching to see what Kazakhstan and the central Asian republics do: do they turn towards China or buckle under Putin ? Dangerous times.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 6 April 2014 4:14:04 PM
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Rhosty,

rom Wikipedia:

"Gorbachev was born on 2 March 1931 in Stavropol, Russian SFSR, Soviet Union, into a mixed Russian-Ukrainian family[4] of migrants from Voronezh and Chernigov Governorates. As a child, Gorbachev experienced the Soviet famine of 1932–1933. He recalled in a memoir that "In that terrible year [in 1933] nearly half the population of my native village, Privolnoye, starved to death, including two sisters and one brother of my father."[5] Both of his grandfathers were arrested on false charges in the 1930s; his paternal grandfather Andrey Moiseyevich Gorbachev (&#1040;&#1085;&#1076;&#1088;&#1077;&#1081; &#1052;&#1086;&#1080;&#1089;&#1077;&#1077;&#1074;&#1080;&#1095; &#1043;&#1086;&#1088;&#1073;&#1072;&#1095;&#1077;&#1074;) was sent to exile in Siberia.[6][7]"

So you're right :)

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 6 April 2014 4:17:49 PM
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The Ukraine is not a gas exporter but an importer.
At present there is talk of reversing the pipeline to Europe so that
the Ukraine can buy gas from Rumania and or Russian gas from Germany
via the Nordgas pipe. Moscow is very unhappy about that.

I am not sure about oil they might be an exporter.
The other pipe via Turkey I think is not finished yet, and is another
alternative to avoid the Ukraine.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 7 April 2014 3:43:57 PM
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