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The Forum > Article Comments > What do we value > Comments

What do we value : Comments

By Bill Calcutt, published 27/3/2014

Could a bill of rights stem growing levels of community disenchantment with the standards and behaviour of Australian political leaders.

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While I have no problem with Australia not allowing itself to become a dumping ground, I wonder what part outsourcing and privatisation play in our inability to see what is going on.
There was a time when governments were responsible for the policing done in their names. Now it seems that a multinational can be hired to do the job, and as much of what then transpires is considered Proprietary and/or commercial-in-confidence, it remains shielded from public view.
With more transparency a Bill of Rights might not be needed. And a Bill of Rights can disappear. America's certainly has, and the camp followers in Canberra seem to have no trouble with that. I can't see them honouring a Bill of Rights, even were we to have one.
It might be easier to just get them to fess up. Good luck with that.
Posted by halduell, Thursday, 27 March 2014 11:59:45 AM
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A bill of irrevocable rights, is exactly what we do need, to advance real social cohesion.
Only the very worst control freaks would deny their own citizenry, these rights, given all too often, they would lose their own sense of highly addictive power, if we the people had some irrevocable rights.
Which must include the right to peaceful assembly, the right to speak our minds, even where that may offend a small minority, and the inviolable right to personal privacy.
And a right to be different, and say no!
There could be other rights, such as equal treatment before the law, truly equal tax treatment, a sovereign right to own property in fee absolute, where a man's home really is his castle, and a right to bear arms, to protect himself and family members, from uninvited, unwanted intrusions into said castle. Those arms could be limited to specific weapons and ammunition, where say the first three rounds in any magazine, are non lethal bean bags.
We have reintroduced Dames and lords, surely such a change needs to be accompanied by a return of the moat, at least hypothetically!
And there are several other rights, which like a right to, as consenting adults, in the privacy of their own homes, float their own boats!
And freedom to choose which boat to float?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 27 March 2014 12:13:21 PM
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Throsty. Sadly, your satire will go unnoticed.
Posted by Leslie, Thursday, 27 March 2014 1:01:46 PM
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Rhrosty..<<..A bill...of irrevocable rights,..to advance real social cohesion.>.so much depends..on us being..ON THE SAME PAGE..SO TO SPEAK..AS TO..WHAT WORDS..REALLY Mean..

[that person..only includes..THE LIVING/
THAT All/ANY..the govt LARGESS And bailout/of..incorporate-person hood]..not be/by adding extra burden..UPON THE Living

[for burden..see service-charges/access-charges
taxes and gst fees fines levies TOLLS RTV..MOT/VAT..etc]

..<<..if we the people..had some irrevocable/rights..include the right..to peaceful assembly,..the right..to speak our minds,..even where that may offend..a small minority,..and..the inviolable right to personal privacy.>>FOR ALL LAWFUL REASONS

THAT LAWFUL..and legal..mean..two different things
statute..'law'..is legal..but its unlawful

<<>.And a right to be different,..and say no!>>

AND..that all living..shAre an equal share..of govt revenue
[ALL GETTING EXACTLY..THE SAME..$$.[MINUS Costs govt alread.. gave them

accumulative..IF UNCLAIMED
THE TOP 50 PERCENT..AUTO Default..the dividend..to HELP OUT THE LEAST/ADVANTAGED

that the living..get any tax advantage/but not corporations
THAT ALL TAXES..BE PAYABLe only by the dead/not the liviung
THAT MONEY BECOME...ONCE MORE A TRUE STORE OF VALUE..THAT DEBT..BE A GOVT SERVICE JUST LIKE INSURANCES BY A GOVT Service/that fines not raise revenue..for dead corporations..AND THAT GOVT UNDERWRITE ALL INSURANCE needs..for its own[COMMONWEALTH/PRIVILEGE/Benefit].

THAT EACH LIVING BEING.HAVE CLAIM IN A Global money system[see wikiSEED/WIKIGELD[S.U.N.Treaty]..THAT Patent right not out live original PATENT HOLDER/THAT NEXT GENERATION BE..allowed a child grace period of half royalties..not exceeding average income

<<..equal treatment before the law,>>
DEMANDS THAT LAWS BE Lawful[not legal]
as there was no informed connect to the sOCIAL CONTRACT

<<..truly equal tax treatment,>>

JUST A FLAT Transaction tax payable..BY THE MONEY/payee

<<..a sovereign right to own property in fee absolute>>
BUT WITH OBLIGATION..by user pays[the more you USE..THE MORE YOU MUST PAY[higher rates]

<<where a man's home really is his castle,>>

at his prime residence/not estates nor 'holiday/HOMES'..OR RENTALS
NOT Subsidy of rent..to increase land Lords GAINS

<<..and a right to bear arms,>>

THE LAWS OF patent/stem..from heraldry[ie coat of arms]
but sure you got rights TO OWN GUNS/BUT NO ONE HURTS ANYONE/but goes to jail/minimum half the murdeAD LIFE Remaining

[1/2..natural life term>]

<<..freedom to choose..which boat to float?>>
but no license..ORDER/OR WARRENT/PERMISSION..ever..
to hurt VICTIMIZE/humiliate/intimidate/THREATEN NOR KILL
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 27 March 2014 2:48:13 PM
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Hi there...

I surprised at the thrust of your piece to be honest, it appears prima facie, that you're a supporter of these asylum seekers who arrive here unannounced, with many of them allegedly attempting to obfuscate all attempts by authorities to properly identify them. Some have even discarded all documents of identification, yet they seek our help and succour, to avoid being returned to their original homeland ?

By your own brief description in your vocational antecedents, I'm quite surprised that you've taken the line you have ? I therefore ask myself why ? It's folk like you sir that's damaging this once great country of ours with your far left opinions and attitudes. Though, as you sound to be a potential candidate for 'the Greens' I suppose I should not be so surprised after all ?
Posted by o sung wu, Thursday, 27 March 2014 2:55:52 PM
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"Could a bill of rights stem growing levels of community disenchantment with the standards and behaviour of Australian political leaders."

No is the answer. A Bill of Rights will not affect the way politicians behave. It hasn't done so anywhere a Bill of Rights has been enacted.
Posted by Agronomist, Thursday, 27 March 2014 3:01:12 PM
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Absolutely agree.

>>A Bill of Rights will not affect the way politicians behave. It hasn't done so anywhere a Bill of Rights has been enacted.<<

Not only that, but also... a Bill of Rights is, behind the do-gooder rhetoric, merely a clever device, conceived and designed by lawyers, with which they are able to further enrich themselves. If one were ever enacted, we would quickly discover the depths to which these ambulance-chasers will reach, in order to lock in their $550 per hour fees (plus a mere $375p.h. for a junior, and an office clerk to photocopy documents a snip at $250p.h.) Every man+dog would be solicited for evidence of potential abuse, making the current crop of "compensation lawyers" that we see advertising on late-night TV look positively amateurish in comparison.

Google "UK Human Rights Lawyers" for further education on this sordid practice.

Here's the come-on from one such piranha:

"...we challenge the lawfulness of decisions, acts, omissions and policies of public bodies and authorities. Our human rights solicitors and lawyers are dedicated to ensuring access to justice for our clients in the notoriously expensive UK legal system."

This is classic. When they take these "public bodies and authorities" to court, they apply PR pressure to shame them into coughing up money that comes from the wallets of taxpayers and ratepayers... in order to pay those "notoriously expensive" fees. What chutzpah.

And another:

"We regularly work with activists and pressure groups, where the legal case will be just one strand in a wider campaign or protest. Our lawyers often appear in the media, explaining the legal issues involved."

You bet they do.

Blood-curdling stuff.

We shall fight on the beaches etc. etc.
Posted by Pericles, Thursday, 27 March 2014 3:40:37 PM
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Bill thinks that Australians are greedy and selfish, and that we need a Bill of Rights to prevent us becoming more greedy and selfish.
It's funny how these "social progressives" have such total disdain for their fellow citizens, and they think that they are the keepers of the gate of all that is good and holy. Social progressives once dreamed about creating a society where the people were generally content. Now that they have achieved that goal in western countries they think it is just awful that the people are happy. We should be unhappy and as miserable as they are. If we are not unhappy, then it must be because we are dreadfully greedy people.

There is no pleasing these guys.

And no Bill, we most definitely do not want a Bill of Rights. This "International" Bill of Rights is nothing more than a wish list of every Socialist principle that people like yourself want to enact to over ride the people's Parliament. Democracy is a real impediment to what people like you want, so you endlessly carp on about a Bill of Rights so that you can side step the votes of those greedy selfish people that you look down upon. But only a few people are as dumb as Rhosty, Bill. Most people realise that a Bill of Rights is nothing more than a sugar coated cyanide pill for democracy, where the politically correct, through "activist" judges can make them into any politically correct cause they want them to become.

If you are worried about our rights, Bill, write something about repealing section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act and strike a blow for Freedom of Speech.
Posted by LEGO, Thursday, 27 March 2014 6:03:34 PM
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"No is the answer. A Bill of Rights will not affect the way politicians behave. It hasn't done so anywhere a Bill of Rights has been enacted."

Well, will wonders never cease; I agree with agro.
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 27 March 2014 6:56:28 PM
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The author is looking in entirely the wrong direction when he ascribes the increasing callousness and corruption of Australia’s polity to individualism. Values such as “equity, altruism and consideration” flourish in cultures that hold deep respect for the dignity and autonomy of the individual. Collective cultures, in which a person’s merit and status are determined mainly by the group to which they belong, and the individual's interests are subordinated to collective interest (usually determined by the state), are far more likely to be riven with discrimination, bigotry and inequity. The language used to disparage asylum seekers commonly includes negative stereotypes based on real or imagined characteristics of refugees as a group. Almost never do you hear the situations of real individuals addressed. This tendency to judge people their group membership is characteristic of collectivist thinking.

I also think the statement “Throughout the ages … the state was required to mediate and balance competing social, economic and environmental interests while supporting the weak and disadvantaged” shows little knowledge of history. The expectation that the state has a significant role in protecting all of the community, not just the elite, began in 18th century Europe and grew out of the liberal capitalism the author so despises.
Posted by Rhian, Thursday, 27 March 2014 6:56:54 PM
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I think we need a Bill of Rights and Responsibilities. The USA used to have a good Bill of Rights but Obama and Bush have trashed it with the NDAA and Patriot Act.

A Bill of Rights should include national sovereignty in monetary and social areas. No Govt should be allowed to borrow from private Central Banks. This used to be part of the US constitution whereby Congress alone had the power to issue new currency. Now Congress is owned by the private US Federal Reserve.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 27 March 2014 7:05:45 PM
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A bill of rights, may have prevented the Government from incarcerating A kind and Gentle Dr Haneef, without probable cause!
And almost anyone, will know similar cases, where the relevant authorities, would have to do a far better job of collecting reliable evidence, before incarcerating a so called suspect.
Rather than simply relying on their own underlying bigotry, or racial profiling? Which in one well known case, saw an aboriginal, incarcerated for the rape and murder of a minor. He was eventually released from death row, given private inquiry, placed him in Queensland, as a circus roustabout, at the time of the SA incident!
Yes sure, a bill of rights may not cause our current crop of politicians to behave better, but hey, it could make them much more accountable?
Besides, we the people get a chance to get rid of the worst examples, one every three years, So if they're no good, who's to blame?
I'm always surprised by very young people, who complain bitterly, yet refuse to vote?
It strikes me, if all those dissenters, were to get organised and vote as blocks, they could alter the outcome of virtually every election, and by the simple expediency, of always putting the incumbent last on the ballot paper.
It would then only be a matter of time, before our servants got the message, and started to truly represent our interests ahead of their own or the party!?

>underonegod< If you could become just a little more coherent, we'd know what you are trying to say, or what it is, you seem to be accusing me of?
Perhaps I could help you to understand, by better explaining, what you seem to misunderstand, and or, selectively misrepresent!?
I am quite articulate, and am wordy enough, and quite capable of putting my foot in my own mouth on occasion!
That being so, I don't need any assistance by a few, who think the way to have an educated adult debate, is to put a whole lot of words, or gibberish in my mouth?
Have a nice day.
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Thursday, 27 March 2014 7:44:37 PM
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Yea, lets have a Bill of Rights, it's just what we need.

Yep another bit of paper passed through the parliament, compromised to hell & back to get it through the upper house. Good one.

Then we can have yet another billion dollar a year bureaucracy to administer it. That should help the employment of useless arts graduates.

Then we can tie up a couple of courts for 10 years running cases so the idiots we have on the bench can mutilate what ever mess happened to get through that upper house.

What a damn fine idea, to get rid of a few billion we don't have.

It really is hard to see where the fools with such ideas come from. Must be a big deep dark pit of ooze somewhere.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 27 March 2014 8:01:46 PM
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The title is provocative given that, once again, we now live in a land of Knights, Dames, Wenches and intellectually-challenged Prime Ministers (well, one at least!).

We also live in a land where, at any moment, the Government may buy up all the used fishing boats in the world which are favored by refugees.

This will create heavy demand and drive up the price, something that Joe is probably counting on.

Of course, refugees may then adopt barrels as the vehicle of choice although there's nothing wrong with those dinky little life boats either.

Surely our world has gone mad! Looney Tony is the new Pied Piper.

God help us!
Posted by David G, Friday, 28 March 2014 10:09:59 AM
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Haahaaaaaaaa Heeheeeeee, cough, cough cough, choke, chortle, Haahaaaaaaa!

Stop it Has been! Your killing me!
Posted by LEGO, Saturday, 29 March 2014 3:01:15 AM
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FROSTY..GET OVER IT../quote..<<>.>underonegod< If you could become just a little more coherent, we'd know what you are trying to say, or what it is, you seem to be accusing me of?>>

i used your post as a base to expand my thoughts from
NO POINT BUt to prompt my thoughts..[AN ATTRIBUTION..TO AVOID THE ACCUSATION I PLAGIARIZED YOU WITHOUT ATTRIBUTING your words tO YOU]

i thought to ignore it
BUT YOU SEEM REAlLY SLIGHTED BY IT
so i explain..i chose your words cause the value of the words most closely approximated..my own values..[have you never heard ..is the most siNcere form /of flatery]

IM DOING THE BEST I CAN WITH A NEAR DEAD COMPUTER That freezes every 5 minutes ..and deletes great chunks of text by a sticky CuRSER[SAND IM OVER BuYING COMPuters that gOT WINDOWS THAT ALLOW BUGS TO KILL Perfectly fine computers

DONT SWEAT ON IT/POSTING has become sO FRAUGHT
I WILL SOON LEAVE THE LOT OF YOU IN PEACE
AS ITS MAKING ME TOO ANGRY[YOU HAVE HEARD SMILE TI YOU MAKE IT?
THIS WRITING IN UPPER LOWER CAPS CHANGING AT WHIM..IS Resulting..iN JUST THE OPPOSITE OF SMILING/PLiS I HATE WRITING AND HATE EVEN WORSE PEOPLE KNOWING MY SECRETS..even reading..im so over the ot of it/and nuthin changes

all in all
i shall soon begone
please ignore me..tiLL that fatefull day..i up stumps and go away
ITS ONLY MY VAlues that force me to say..[oops stay]..BAH MAKE THE WORLD GO AWAY/
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 29 March 2014 8:46:40 AM
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Hi Bill.
We would welcome some of your social commentary and articles at www.elephantmagazine.com.au, a national print/digital magazine on social enterprise.
Liked this one.
Best regards,
John
Posted by Elephant Magazine, Sunday, 30 March 2014 5:29:49 PM
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It has been with a heavy heart I have followed and studied Politics for the past 15 years. Where has our compassion and sense of care gone? 'I'm alright Jack' seems to be the accepted value. Well, it's NOT. Why do we fear and vilify those less fortunate? I can hear our politicians agreeing with the famous (infamous??) utterance "I will decide who comes here". Just because we (all Australians) are part of a bigger world, we do not have to take on the values of the bigger world. We are a good nation, let's keep the morals and values upon which our country was founded (all be they oh so very English). Australians are not greedy nor hostile. We are a proud and generous race. Open your hearts to those less fortunate.
Posted by mally, Wednesday, 2 April 2014 3:00:00 PM
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WHO CARES?
NO REALLY..WHO CARES?
WE REVEAL OUR VALUES..BY GIVING A DAMM

Congress Investigates 13 GM Car Deaths
but Ignores Thousands of Vaccine Deaths
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2014/04/congress-investigates-13-gm-car-deaths.html

by Catherine J. Frompovich

If Congress grilled the CEO of General Motors on April 1st, 2014 because of 13 deaths resulting from a faulty ignition switch [1] in its cars over ten or more years, when will Congress investigate Big Pharma and vaccine makers about all the deaths attributed to and apparently caused by vaccines? ...

FUNNY THEY SPY ON US..BECAUSE OF TERROR
BUT MORE PEOPLE DIED BY COP THAT TERRORISTS
AND MORE PEOPLE DIE..OF BEE STING THAT BY COP

WE BORROW FROM BANKERS
TO BAILOUT BANKING/SYSTEMS
WE REMOVE MINITS ON INSIDER TRADING CAUSE WE KNOW THEY ARE BROKEN
THE DEBY[PERSONAL DEBT BURDEN..ON OUR KIDS..WHO ARE PAYING FOR IT ALL VIA SIN TAXES AND TOLLS FEES SERVICE CHARGES PENELTY RATES THREAT OF FORCE FROM COPPERS COMPLICITE COURTS RULING JUDGMENTS IN PENALTY UNITS DESPITE CONSTITUTION 115

ITS A ROTTED CORPSE
WHY?

BECAUSE THE DEAD ARE NOT PAYING THEIR OWN WAY
THE ONLY REVENUE STREAM..SEEMS TO BE TAX THE LIVING TO DEATH

WOW WE GOT VALUES
BUT ARE WE GETTING VALUE..OR THE GOVT SLOW KILL WE..EARNED..BY STAYING SILENT...THEY DO IT BY MAKING THE DIVISIONS..LIKE THIS TOPIC OF VALUES.

WHAT HAPPENS TO DIVIDED VALUES

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16166&page=0

HALF THE MOTIVATION
HALVE THE VALUE
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 3 April 2014 1:13:28 PM
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