The Forum > Article Comments > My issue with local government > Comments
My issue with local government : Comments
By Brent Fleeton, published 23/10/2013The more important issue we ought to be discussing is how to address the drastic overreach by local governments.
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Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 8:24:04 AM
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Well done, Brent. My only objection is that you don't go far enough. When Paul Keating described the Senate as 'unrepresentative swill', he could have been talking about local government. Each year, we are asked, actually required in Victoria, to vote for people we've never heard of, who hide their affiliations with or membership of political parties and pretend to be community members.
My solution? Dismiss this travesty of democracy; remove local councils altogether; and make local management part of the broader responsibility of the state government. At leat this way, we'll know who to blame when things go wrong and we're less likely to be forced to pay for idiocies like the employment of a white witch as a change manager and dozens of people wandering round our streets counting smiles, both of which happened in my local area while our rates rocket ever upwards. Posted by Senior Victorian, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 8:38:20 AM
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Brett,
Thanks for the interesting article. Here is the way, http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/huckabee/index.html#/v/4673482/secrets-to-90-year-old-mayors-success/?playlist_id=86920 Just one thing, would you mind not referring to voters as 'punters'? Thanks again. Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 9:20:16 AM
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I remember reading about one of the early cities in the central USA that, at its formation and constitution, had power given to it by the state to be recognized as a city-state. This was in the 1800's in Illinois. I wonder whether something similar would be more appropriate today?
Instead of removing local councils, as they are the most effective at the local things (roads, rubbish, lawns) why not remove the states? Why not have city "states" and then split the current states power between the commonwealth and the cities? Posted by RandomGuy, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 9:23:12 AM
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Brent, I don’t think your argument is as clear-cut as you make out.
Sure, we want government to be efficient and not misspend taxpayers’ money. But the same problem exists for all tiers. Local government SHOULD have a wider role than just << fixing roads, mowing lawns and disposing of garbage >>. http://walga.asn.au/AboutLocalGovernment.aspx They SHOULD be involved with long-term planning and sustainability. And the hiring of consultants to advise them on the right strategies is not an unreasonable use of ratepayers’ money. Don’t local residents general want their local government to be involved in a wide range of matters? Wouldn’t they prefer this rather than having decisions over all manner of things largely dictated from afar by the state or federal government? Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 9:33:47 AM
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author/quote..<<..please don't forget the annual contributions local governments pay to groups like WALGA and ALGA...These two lobby groups spent..millions of dollars of ratepayers'..funds>>>
curious..please explain who asre these corporations sucking away our life blood? i hear many..local councils have sold..ownership..of the basic things..like sewers[then..;lease;..it back..at a huge burden..on tax payer[house holder] council..got some upfront cash[for its other mate-obligation plus an enron clause..of full repayment..for ANY default its win win.. corporation..owns the pipes/rail/tolls. poles/wires/lines fine/revenue-raising.property rights..etc..etc etc.. <<.. on a political advertising campaign..for something which never occurred,..>> basic redirection its all..about perception..[and how to man the booths thats where sport associations..get billion-dollar stadium../free bowling greens..golf club..and private schools..[your too innocent..and too..hoinest but you..must comprehend some..basics http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cec+money+creation+nat+bank but still the exploiters..<<won't give the funds back to ratepayers. Hashtag integrity.>> hash tag..lol #what-ever-that-meam/means.. Posted by one under god, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 9:52:42 AM
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Your major issue with local govt seems to be, you're still are not part of it?
That said, I believe in compulsory voting, which shouldn't be necessary, save too many of us take our freedom and the ultimate sacrifices made to keep it, completely for granted; particularly newcomers? {If where you came from was better, fell completely free to return to it? I'll even pass around that hat!] And I completely agree with Rangers having the right to see some photo ID! Given the often deliberately lit forest fires, the number of homes the current fire storms have destroyed; or the lives taken, which included some of my relatives, in the disastrous Victorian forest fires. I mean, some arsonists were apparently arrest quite recently, all of who thus far, have turned out to be juveniles! If entirely lackadaisical or completely irresponsible parents, have to pay punitive fines for trouble making or entirely unsupervised kids, doing what unsupervised/bored kids usually resort to, antisocial activities/mischief/property damage? Just deserts! More CCTV and fewer half baked, lamebrain, drunken stumble bum excuses! Rhrosty. Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 11:00:18 AM
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Ludwig and RandomGuy are on the right track( though not "city states").The only sensible way forward is to abolish the states and extend municipal councils.
Posted by Leslie, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 12:31:32 PM
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Good article.
I have wondered about the ridiculously increasing rates we pay for not very much. I bought a property about 22 years ago. The rates were $126 a year. A couple of years later a new council, with ideas of grandeur started rapidly increasing them. A few years later I calculated that at the rate of increase of council rates, my rate bill would exceed my total annual income by 2016. They have slowed their grasp for our money a little, but I still think my $2800 a year bill is a bit excessive. For that we get a truck with 3 men filling potholes with bitumen about every 9 months or so, & a mobile library for 3 hours 48 weeks a year. Far from increasing their power, we should cut them back to roads garbage & poo, about all the "B" graders on council & the staff could do properly. Surely Luddy, you don't really thing councils are capable of managing anything like sustainability, when they can't handle a call center. Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 1:14:10 PM
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<< Surely Luddy, you don't really thing councils are capable of managing anything like sustainability, when they can't handle a call center. >>
Hazza, they are capable of having a good input into sustainability issues. But alas, many councils are a very long way from properly addressing sustainability – about as far away from it as every state government and the feds are! I strongly disagree that local government should be cut back to << roads garbage & poo >> But of course the broadness or narrowness of local government can cut both ways. Broadness can be good if a higher government wants to do things that the local community doesn’t want, and the council bats for the community. Or it can be bad if a local government is too close to property developers and the like and is all too willing to do their bidding, against the wishes of the broader community, which unfortunately often seems to be the case. Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 9:23:47 PM
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Luddy old mate, I think our council is one of the less bad of those around, but having said that, they are pretty damn stupid.
I think this stupidity is basically from the senior staff, with councilors just too dumb to evaluate their recommendations. Here is an example of their efforts on sustainability. I think it was the shire clerk, trying to cut the services budget, to waste on something in town, who suggested closing a number of transfer stations on the grounds of being cost effective. Well I guess it was for the council, but it was one of the few facilities provided in a district of 880 homes, with no garbage service. So instead of a couple of trucks a week picking up large skips from the transfer station, all 880 homeowners were driving an extra 25 to 30Km each way to the next nearest transfer station. For me that meant over 280 liters of fuel a year, plus about 48 hours of my time wasted on the extra driving. For the district that comes out to well over 250 thousand liters of fuel, & over 40 thousand man, or woman hours wasted, on the councils cost effective idea. That is not a misprint. I'm talking about a quarter of a million liters of fuel a year. How's that for sustainability That is I find, a usual result of an honest council. The bent ones are much worse. Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 23 October 2013 10:47:54 PM
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http://www.google.com.au/search?q=chicago+bankruptcy
http://www.suntimes.com/business/23310572-420/trial-starts-is-detroit-eligible-for-bankruptcy.html Detroit, with $18 billion in debt, filed for Chapter 9 protection in July, but it’s not automatic. Judge Steven Rhodes has set aside several days to hear evidence and decide whether the city met many key steps, including good-faith negotiations with creditors, before taking drastic action three months ago. Jim Spiotto, a bankruptcy expert in Chicago, said it’s “virtually impossible” to argue that Detroit is solvent. “They’re not paying their debts,” he said. “Look at their blighted areas. Look at their services.” Nonetheless, unions and pension funds are challenging Detroit on the eligibility question. They claim emergency manager Kevyn Orr, who acquired nearly unfettered control over city finances following his appointment by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder, was not genuinely interested in negotiating when they met with his team in June and July. Orr insists pension funds are short $3.5 billion and health coverage also needs to be overhauled. Evidence will show that Orr “planned to file bankruptcy long before the purported negotiations had run their course, confirming that the ‘negotiations’ were no more than a check-the-box exercise on the way to the courthouse,” Babette Ceccotti, an attorney for the United Auto Workers, said in a court filing. Earle Erman, attorney for Detroit’s public safety unions, said the city has cut wages and changed health care benefits without across-the-table talks. Lawyer Sharon Levine, who’s representing the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, said the city spent months “mapping out its path to Chapter 9,” not looking for compromises that could keep Detroit out of bankruptcy. In response, however, attorneys for the city said a June 14 meeting and subsequent sessions with creditors were well-intended but fruitless. A bankruptcy filing was being prepared, they acknowledged, but “never set in stone.” Spiotto said the judge will have much discretion to determine whether the city has met its “good-faith” burden. “I don’t think courts require perfection,” he said. “Good faith is not measured solely by, ‘Did they offer what we want?’ It’s about providing opportunity.” Posted by one under god, Thursday, 24 October 2013 5:09:10 AM
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.....on the dole, the fine is exorbitant.
halduell, Quite some time back I advocated on several threads that fines should not be a set amount, they should reflect a percentage of earnings. A $144.- fine for an unemployed is astronomical whereas for a Lawyer or Doctor or some other high earner it is merely something to joke about. I have always believed that a fine can only imact fairly if it is a percentage of one's income. Let's say a speeding fine is issued for being 10 km over the limit. The driver is unemployed & his allowance is $300/month. I say fine him 10 %. A Professional who earns 30,000/month pays a fine of 10%. Both are hit with a fine without severe hardship imposed & the Authorities get their money. After all, isn't it all about fairness & safety ? Posted by individual, Thursday, 24 October 2013 6:51:05 AM
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yes individual..raises a good,,point,,but lets expand on it
i..used to use my auto..about two tanks worth of driving [mainly to..put in..the dole form.. for this benefit..i had to pay full-third party bog standard Compulsory..3rd party insurance..thats the same..regardless of im only on the..little bit of road..max 10 hours per year... or like many others 10 hours per day[just getting gto their job we ALL..pay the same[well govt cut me of completely..but a few years ago and.yes no/money..means now..instead of paying..pensioner rate rego[under say 500..to fines totaling one and one half THOUSAND no 3rd party..FINE was 500 [despite..insurance being less..plus if i wanted to ever drive again..i would need pay the fine..PLUS the rego [plus spurs deregesterd the vehicle previously.. yet whe,police searched..they found it 'on.the regester..yet still fined 500[only/because i..was..on/the register see when..you register..your saying..this =- a vehicle..under the transportation ac[ie an act to control commerce]..only enforceable..upon..those seeing advantage..by applying[apply means beg]..begged for permission to do..trade..to do this you must first create a paper fiction..[called a person/under the act] thes legal persons..isnt/you..but all the id.forms etc..that govts..create..their power begins and ends..in the realm of paper the only lawful tender shall be coin [federal/constitution/sec51]..but they wouldnt take payment..in coin[thus violate their own warrent]..=high treason further..they have DEBASED,,the queens coin STOLEN..the gold/silver/copper FROM..hjrh COIN debased*,,her face HIGH TREASON..but the lies..go on for other un-payed fines..[unpayable/ as..i..only hold lawful tender[in-coin] before suspending my license.for life.. [by spers..not..even by a majistraight..nor any faux court]... plus locked me up..[all for the same thing...but divided into5 fines[when..for the price..of one ALONE..would hav.. seen the car regesterd in..the first..place[better..on-top/of fuel].. 4 fold..the cost..of doing..'the legal..BUT..unlawful/things] see..little known[forgotten],,is a/court judgment..CREATES..the full complet settlement[way/plus..means]..it creates the payment!,,[in-ful] [the court-order..is the value/ it..creates,,the bond..ya..know govt bonds.. these are court orded bonds..that settle accounts..but by deciete[power][educated lawyers wanting/us bound..hand foot eyes/ears..and mouth.. once it..is signed=its..payed in-full [its..an in house governance..accounting/settlement means[privilege] so why..they need our fines..fees levies..ON TOP? my power bill..was 53dollars..MORE THAN HALF..OF THAT..was gst/fees service/access line..maintenance.fees charges..levies what..ever..else they..could tack..onto the bill Posted by one under god, Thursday, 24 October 2013 8:00:32 AM
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AGAIN..a bill=the same as a bond..=the means of lawful settlement
it rightfully becomes the full payment..[offer/acceptance]=settlement sign..it and its payed in-full[via treasury] [it became money..when we signed it..[look at a bank note..SEE ITS SIGNED..same same by signing it..in a box.. [with words to the affect..of recognized as the value[r4v]..plus your birthing details of course only lawful persons can do this [its because way back..intime bankers BOUGHT-UP..GOVT WAR BONDS..then..DEMANDED..immediate repayment[ie 20years of intrest was foregone..infavour of demanding..IT ALLIN GOLD?SILVER COIN govbt triued seizing back gold..but innthe end bankers got the fed[treasury house of settlements]..PLUS looted the treasure[silver coppert gold]..now want todrop coins alltogether[soonkids wont evennknow coin[let alone refuse toeventake them but today..our pennies=equals yesterdays pounds [that what the bankers really done[inflated..the values[of fiat paper] till the only absurdity remains..the cheap.nickle..coin[who's metal..value alone is OVER..the face]..recall we 'lost'..our one cent/two cent-pieces..cause..the copper in them..cost 5 cents return..back to us..all cash money..we sent in by mistake we were dumbed down deliberatly..we didnt know [wrent told]..the order/creates the bill..[which under the terms of bankruptcy]=the payment in full see police before they became cops had the powers of sherrif WHO.CAN..issue/sign..bills into settlement..so how IT..WAS supposed to work=..is..cop pulls you over..sees say you need new tires..cause they make the vehicle..a PUBLIC DANGER..so/he issues the order..you..take the order.. and get the new tires..done when you receive them..you sign the order r4v business dude counter signs it to his bank..bank counter signs it..and treasury orders fed to issue final credit..in to the bank account but thieves stole OUR FED..looted the treasury [thats why we need issue bills[its..the only proved way of balancing og the value..actually delivered/recieved Posted by one under god, Thursday, 24 October 2013 8:01:04 AM
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"My solution? Dismiss this travesty of democracy; remove local councils altogether;"
Actually I would agree with this, we could then split them up into smaller states, so there were several in each of the older, bigger, states. We could call each of these smaller states, councils... no, there might be some stigma there, same with the word State. So lets use Cantons, after the Swiss model. Centralising power never works, so take some of the power of the Feds and hand it to the Cantons. Interesting note, the City of Brisbane has higher revenues than Tasmania. Posted by Valley Guy, Thursday, 24 October 2013 3:58:10 PM
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But I really like the idea of limiting Council rate increases to the CPI index.
As for the overreach of local government, the current big issue where I live is Council allowing their Rangers to issue fines of $576 for failure to show ID.
As this most often falls on the youth (especially skateboarders whose fine for skateboarding in the CBD is only $144) and those who are on the dole, the fine is exorbitant. I can only see it as a revenue generating measure as well as a method of control by Council officers who are seriously out of touch with the electorate who are asked to pay them quite handsome annual salaries.
There was a time when I was a champion of local government. Maybe not so much any longer.